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UN Bigwig: The Web Should Have Been Patented and Licensed

An anonymous reader writes "Cory Doctorow over at BoingBoing has unearthed an amazing video where the head of WIPO, the UN agency responsible for 'promoting' intellectual property, suggests that Tim Berners-Lee should have patented HTML and licensed it to all users. Amazingly this is done on camera and in front of the head of CERN and the Internet Society, who look on in disbelief."

29 of 411 comments (clear)

  1. Hindsight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Always 20/20, especially if you're a greed-focused farging bastage.

    1. Re:Hindsight by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...and ignore that the web might not have grown quite so popular if everybody had to pay for everything and stick to some individual's arbitrary rules.

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    2. Re:Hindsight by Tsingi · · Score: 5, Informative

      From Wikipedia: The Washington Post reported in 2003 that Lois Boland (USPTO Director of International Relations) said "that open-source software runs counter to the mission of WIPO, which is to promote intellectual-property rights." Also saying, "To hold a meeting which has as its purpose to disclaim or waive such rights seems to us to be contrary to the goals of WIPO

    3. Re:Hindsight by mikelieman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      His opinion completely overlooks the fact that it's my intellectual property right to choose whatever licensing I want for my product, and if I *choose* to release it to the public domain OR under any other terms, that is my right.

      --
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    4. Re:Hindsight by Tsingi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, you may elect to contribute to the betterment of mankind. But in doing so you make yourself a bad person in the eyes of the WIPO.

    5. Re:Hindsight by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Slashdot groupthink at its best in this thread. The tone are personal attacks. "Patents are evil! Burn pro-patent people! UN is stupid!". How sad. Nobody saw the video, or tried to understand the argument he was trying to make.

      He made the point that IP are useful because patents document an invention, information otherwise lost.

      Yeah, all those RFCs are a complete waste of time.

      All open standards should be written up in patent-speak (which nobody but patent lawyers can decipher) and never discussed in public beforehand (because that would make them unpatentable).

      --
      No sig today...
    6. Re:Hindsight by next_ghost · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, his note makes it clear that he's completely ignorant about all the drawbacks of intellectual property systems. The example of violin and saxophone does make sense but what he says about patenting WWW is completely idiotic. In a nutshell, he says that if WWW had been patented with flexible enough licensing that doesn't cripple its use (probably as flexible as if it wasn't patented at all), we'd see huge investments into WWW innovations (basically what we've seen in the past 20 years even without patents).

      The single most important thing to remember about intellectual property systems is that while they create incentives to make innovations, they also as a side-effect create environment hostile to actually getting those innovations into general use. When you're dealing with intellectual property, you can never have the former without the latter.

    7. Re:Hindsight by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Patents document things sufficiently to mount legal battles - not so well that it makes it easier to reproduce an invention.

      Claim - a method in which atomic nuclei are fused together releasing energy capable of destroying cities.

      Go ahead and try to build a hydrogen bomb now...

      Chemists often mine old patents looking for ways to make things, but they're usually only useful as a starting point. If somebody wants to patent some molecule they'll publish some method that creates the molecule in 0.1% yield or whatever - enough to prove by spectral observation that they made it. They don't actually publish a practical method that can be used to make it, since they don't actually want anybody to make it.

      Look here for an example of this in action. The patent (#4,444,784) describes Simvastatin/Zocor - one of the more popular drugs ever taken and due to its expiry probably one of the most commonly prescribed medications around. The first method in the patent starts with 200 gallons of mold and ends up with enough compound to make about 10 pills - at one of the lower dosages. Suffice it to say this is not economical even at $5/pill.

      I didn't spend enough time digging through it to figure out which of the large family of compounds described in the patent ended up being the final pill and how you'd have to make it following the patent, but this is just illustrative. The patent was really just intended to cover the molecule, and the method just proves that they indeed had made it and tested its activity.

    8. Re:Hindsight by hitmark · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A worryingly narrow starting point, as it do not allow any re-examination of the concepts within the term "intellectual property". Seems similar to how the mission statement of the Norwegian group tasked with updating the nations copyright law, specifically leaving out any chance of the group to re-examine the reasons behind the laws existence. This is the kind of deification of old thoughts that worries me these days. We are unwilling to go back and have a long hard look at the words of the founders of modern society, and evaluate their continued validity (or lack there of). As such, we are no better then the people that run their lives by a holy text that has stayed unchanged for a millennium or more.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    9. Re:Hindsight by shentino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If he was completely ignorant there's no way he would have made it to the head of WIPO.

      He knows damn FUCKING WELL about the drawbacks.

      He willfully chooses to disregard them so that the people whose pockets he's in don't get pissed off.

  2. Impressive by Spad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It takes a monumental denial of reality to say something that stupid; anyone with even partial brain function is fully aware that if the underlying technologies of the web had been patented by Sir Tim (or similar) and licensed then we wouldn't be posting on Slashdot right now because nobody outside of large multinationals would even be *using* the web for anything.

    1. Re:Impressive by Motor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Head of Intellectual Property at UN thinks Intellectual Property makes things better.

      Pope thinks Catholicism makes the world better.

      News at 11!

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    2. Re:Impressive by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh, maybe we would be posting on Slashdot, but Slashdot would be a news server where the summary was the first message posted to each new group. Links would of course be manual, i.e. a description of how to get at the article.

      Good post. I would have posted before you if my ISP had licensed the AppleTalk to IPX bridge that would have allowed me to view Slashdot from my connection at home. Fortunately at work we have can afford to buy a browser that supports the mark-up used by Slashdot. I may be late responding to replies; the email clients here don't support the protocol my ISP uses.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
  3. Re:Who... by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think some woman in a pond threw a sword at him.

    Perhaps she should have thrown it harder.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  4. Gurry simple doesn't understand "sharing" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He talks about the possibility that the burden of developing the web could have been shared by the users. Well, it was shared. The development of the web was as shared as it could have been. Hundreds or thousands of open source developers contributing pieces to it. Some commercial companies trying as well. All users paying for their share of the bandwidth. The web is a wonderful example for how sharing the burden can work without a traditional organization apportioning the shares. This guy simply doesn't get that. He may know something about the P in WIPO, but the I seems to be somewhat underdeveloped.

  5. WIPO == Idiots by zabzonk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I worked at WIPO as a consultant for a year - a bigger collection of clueless f*ckwits would be hard to find.

  6. Re:Who... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Your government voted for him.

    The "UN" and it's myriad institutions is a figleaf for your rulers. It lets them do what they want and blame it on "The UN" or "WIPO" or "the WTO" or "the FMI" or "the World Bank".

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  7. If only... by mudshark · · Score: 4, Funny

    This certainly might have prolonged Gopher's viability.

    --
    In other news, astrophysicists have announced that they now know what all that dark matter is: it's stupidity.
  8. Well? What do you expect? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A surgeon will recommend to operate. A lawyer to do legal work. A soldier to kill someone.

    This guy is at WIPO, patents and such is what this guy does. You won't get creative commons out of him.

    The problem is not even this guy, the problem is his opposition. There isn't one. As always, "Yes Prime Minister" has the example. Story: Hacker is given the task of coming up with a new transport policy involving road, rail and air. He soon learns that each sector is represented by a civil servant fighting not for the common good but for HIS sector.

    This story alone does not cover it. In another story his chauffeur comments on a radio story and points out that all the decisions for public transport, public schools and public healthcare are made by people that go to private hospitals, send their kids to private schools and have chauffeur driven cars. Which Hacker sayed they need because else they would have to make public transport a lot more reliable...

    The problem ain't sector reps fighting for their sector, the problem is the common man, the non-commercial, the non-status quo, has no such rep fighting for their cause.

    People who are in ivory towers have plenty of sky bridges connecting them to other ivory towers. But never ever a connection to ground level. I have seen it myself, even if some newbie tries, the disconnect is already so great once they have enough power that any contact attempt is extremely uncomfortable so they soon learn not to do it again.

    This is just how the system works, calling this guy an idiot only helps keep the system in place. Sadly getting a useful opposition in place is nearly impossible.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Well? What do you expect? by Halo1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I also experienced very nice example of this during the fight against the software patents directive in Europe. I had a discussion with a guy from WIPO and at one point said that software patents were generally bad for small companies. Rather than denying this like EICTA (the organisation representing mostly large ICT companies), he fully agreed with that.

      But then he went off the cliff: he argued that this is actually how the system is supposed to work. By making sure that most small companies will be driven out of business or swallowed by larger ones, you get a consolidation in the market. And consolidation is good for efficiency, cost cutting etc. Basically, he considered software patents as a market optimisation tool to get rid of all the fragmentation, to speed up the "natural" evolution that any economic sector is supposed to go through (starting out with many small time independent businesses, followed by a consolidation phase that leaves a few giants to rule it all).

      That said, WIPO isn't the worst. Countries such as India and Brazil also have a say in there, and they're far less extremist than the Western world (at least for now). WIPO is in fact so annoying to the current extremists that the US, EU and friends completely bypassed it with ACTA. So anyone arguing against UN bodies with the argument that those people are not accountable should be careful, because there at least you have countries from all over the world that have a say rather than only the interests of your own administration (or rather your own "IP"-lobbyists) and some self-selected partners.

      --
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  9. Their Goals by bky1701 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The copy of copyright and patent supporters is to prevent systems like the internet from being founded. This is a great example: were the important protocols and general structure patented, what you know of as the internet would not have been delayed or more expensive, it would have never existed. It is quite obvious that the greater good is of no concern to IP supporters, only their own profits.

    Yet these people are still given free rein of our legal system and allowed by the weak minded to claim that copyright and patent infringement is "theft," while the real theft is that of the copyright and patent holders from society as a whole. It's time that stop, before the next big innovation is prevented. End these archaic systems this decade, support the abolition of imaginary property.

  10. What a absolute failure. by tramp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Luckily Tim Berners-Lee did have a vision about his idea and probably even knew about the lack of vision of those greedy bastards.

  11. No he didn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The relevant quote:

    Intellectual property is a very flexible instrument. So, for example, had the world wide web been able to be patented, and I think that is a question in itself, perhaps the amount of investment that has gone into or would be able to go into basic science would be different. If you had found a very flexible licensing model, in which the burden for the innovation of the world wide web had been shared across the whole user community in a very fair and reasonable manner, with a modest contribution for everyone for this wonderful innovation, it would have enabled enormous investment in turn in further basic research. And that is the sort of flexibility that is built into the intellectual property system. It is not a rigid system...

    What he says is that *if* the web had been able to be patented, (which is not clear), and *if* you could find a flexible licensing model which is fair (which is certainly not clear to me, though he doesn't seem to make an opinion), then you could spend any money received from licensing on basic research.

    He does not state that the web should have been patented. He even goes so far as to say that he's not sure it could have been patented. He's simply discussing how money received from licensing could be used. I don't really want to download a 240 meg video just to clear up this issue, but just looking at the wording it's clear that he's responding to something about licensing fees. My guess is that somebody commented that the purpose of patenting the web would be to get rich. I'd appreciate it if someone who's seen the video could comment.

    Anyway, I'm rather rabidly anti-software patent. But this kind of bullshit "reporting" doesn't do us any good. Whipping up a frenzy over a non-issue just makes us look stupid.

  12. Re:The point of laws and courts... by Ihmhi · · Score: 4, Funny

    One way or another, a whole bunch of people get shot up and you start all over again.

    It isn't the first time it happened, and it won't be the last. Hell, it's happening right now in the Middle East. It's starting to brew here. Granted, it's a bunch of rail-thin, jobless hipsters who think they can bank a liberal arts degree towards a white collar salary, but it's starting nonetheless.

  13. That's what WIPO want by petes_PoV · · Score: 5, Insightful

    web might not have grown quite so popular

    I expect that would be WIPO's goal. The idea that people give stuff away, particularly intellectual property, undermines their whole existence. That something could become a standard, ubiquitous and free is their worst nightmare and they probably feel that the web's success is their failure.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:That's what WIPO want by roman_mir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are right, but it's not just WIPO. If the government officials KNEW what they were getting with the Internet 20 years ago, they would have outlawed the entire thing back then, it was much easier - nobody knew what it was.

      The cat is out of the bag. The absolute power corrupts absolutely, and when you are a representative of an organization that is responsible to nobody, that consists of politicians who are there specifically because that type of power is responsible to nobody, realize - they are playing with this 'world government' idea - nobody elected them.

      These are little dictators, stealing your sovereignty one step at a time.

  14. Apply for the job by frisket · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The guy is delusional and an asshole, but then he was employed to be delusional and an asshole, for an organisation full of delusionals and assholes, pursuing objectives set by assholes, for assholes; and he satisfies the requirements perfectly.

    The job of Director of WIPO is still open for applications (closes 18 Oct): https://erecruit.wipo.int/public/hrd-cl-vac-view.asp?jobinfo_uid_c=25114&vaclng=en

    And never forget that your government that you elect[ed] is in favour of all this crap. If you don't like it, the proper remedy is to take the matter up with your friendly local pubic representative.

  15. They already tried this. by Namarrgon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    More than once - they called it CompuServe, GEnie, and AOL. Remember them?

    --
    Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
  16. Maslow was wrong. by rjh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Years ago I had some serious back trouble that could have been addressed quickly with some painful surgery, or slowly with painful therapy. My surgeon (Dr. Charles Grado, and if you're reading this, thank you) was adamant that he wouldn't touch a scalpel until we'd exhausted all other possibilities. I thought that was weird and told him so. He told me that he took an oath to first do no harm, and that surgery stood in opposition to this. You can't claim you're "doing no harm" while you're cutting into flesh: you're clearly, obviously, doing harm. The only question is whether your actions are the least harmful way of restoring health. Doc Grado is one of the best doctors I've ever known.

    My father and cousin are both judges. Despite their polar-opposite political views, they're agreed that any lawyer who starts off by saying, "well, let's file some legal papers" is an incompetent. A lawyer's job is to solve your problems, and jumping straight to court is a great way to multiply them instead.

    My gunsmith is a career soldier who characterizes his experience in Vietnam as "99% boredom I don't mind remembering and 1% terror I'm trying to forget." Per him, only fools try to solve problems with firearms. You see, if you do that, they might try to solve you right on back with one, and you won't like that at all.

    Finally, I'm an ivory-tower academic who left a Ph.D. program because I was convinced I could do better work, more meaningful work, in the private sector. My job nowadays involves taking cutting-edge research and integrating it into real-world production systems. So, "never" a connection to ground level? My own career says otherwise.

    tl;dr version: Maslow said when all you have's a hammer the whole world looks like a nail. This is true only until you find nails that explode into shrapnel and maim you horribly when you hit them. Once you hit one of those nails, you get real careful before you swing that hammer again.