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TSA's VIPR Bites Rail, Bus, and Ferry Passengers
OverTheGeicoE writes "TSA's VIPR program may be expanding. According to the Washington Times, 'TSA has always intended to expand beyond the confines of airport terminals. Its agents have been conducting more and more surprise groping sessions for women, children and the elderly in locations that have nothing to do with aviation.' In Tennessee earlier this month, bus passengers in Nashville and Knoxville were searched in addition to the truck searches discussed here previously. Earlier this year in Savannah, Georgia, TSA forced a group of train travelers, including young children, to be patted down. (They were getting off the train, not on.) Ferry passengers have also been targeted. According to TSA Administrator John Pistole's testimony before the Senate last June, 'TSA conducted more than 8,000 VIPR operations in the [previous] 12 months, including more than 3,700 operations in mass-transit and passenger-railroad venues.' He wants a 50% budget increase for VIPR for 2012. Imagine what TSA would do with the extra funding."
"Take the train you unpatriotic, small-dicked paranoid liberal!"
Yeah, we all saw this coming. Papers, please.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
We have become consumed by the fear of a mosquito bite, are we going to continue to give up our freedom for what amounts to a non-issue?
This is contrary to everything I believe in.
Look, honestly, what are you going to do about it? Complaining doesn't matter. The TSA will be here forever, and, as much as we hate to admit it, there is nothing that can be done about it. There is too much money involved, and contractors have vast amounts of power, much more so than any collection of outraged stories and messages on the internet does.
Seriously, I hope the TSA is abolished tomorrow, or hell even five years from now. But honestly without fundamental, almost revolutionary changes to the way the US government works this simply will not happen. Money talks, national security lobbyists have TONS of money, and that's pretty much the end of it.
Every TSA pat-down, especially those outside an air terminal, are illegal searches. There is no probable cause for agents of the government to initiate a search, even in air terminals, hence is a violation of 4th Amendment Rights. Every time Pistole is questioned about this by Congress, he insists that Air Travelers (and all travelers, by VIPR assumptions) are guilty until proven innocent, and that American children are all bomb carrying agents of Terrorism, because terrorists have used children and women in other parts of the world.
crazy dynamite monkey
Is their goal to prevent anyone from wanting to use any sort of public transportation anymore? It seems like now the only way to avoid these ridiculous searches is to drive your own vehicle somewhere. Too many agencies are allowed to decide their own scopes of authority and (seemingly?) dictate their own budgets.
How is this possibly of any use to anyone. Hey, TSA! I have this rock that keeps me safe from terrorist. To date, it's be 100% effective at protecting me and everyone else I interact with from terrorism. It's also had zero false positives! I'll be happy to sell you my rock at the bargain price of 250 Million dollars. For another 50 million, my rock will also protect you from vampires, space aliens and Bears (The football team, not the animal.)
As long as we, the people, are not heard in regards to our wishes - this kind of thing will continue. I, for one, have stopped flying because of the security theater; and I will not be forced to drive or walk to avoid being sexually assaulted in my own country - and PAY for the privileged of being mistreated.
The first nuke, that get's detonated on U.S. soil is far more likely to get here by UPS or FedX than missile, the TSA should start groping delivery guys in shorts and leave the rest of us the hell alone.
FedX, when it absolutely, positively has to blow up there over night.
Yes I do. Their suits aren't as snazzy.
He is the only candidate that is against this sh*t...
..try to search me before I get off the train.
If I refuse? are they going to prevent me from getting off the train?
isn't that kidnapping? I mean they can search me before I get on with the threat that if I'm not searched, I can't board, but can they really keep me from getting off at a domestic stop?
If they touch me with out my permission isn't that assault?
I know that my response to it will be classified as assault.
It's bad enough that they have made air travel unbearable, do we need to let them mess up this too?
I'm sure that it will help create jobs by discouraging americans from traveling at all.
-- Sig under construction...
You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie, as wisdom and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I'm a Canadian sysadmin. I love -- LOVE -- the LISA conference (http://www.usenix.org/lisa11/). It's wonderful, informative, and fun; I've made great friends there, learned an incredible amount and generally enjoyed myself enormously.
Last year was the third time I went. The conference was in San Jose. I took a bus and a train -- which took over 24 hours -- from Vancouver to San Jose, rather than fly and go through a naked body scanner. I figured if I'm going to talk the talk, I should walk the walk.
I'd already decided to skip this year's conference; it's in Boston, which is a long way to go by train or bus. I didn't want to be away from my family for that long. But I had been thinking about going next year, when it's going to be in San Diego.
I'm not going now. Not if this crap keeps up. I'll watch the video on my workstation, I'll listen to the MP3s on the bus, and I'll stay here in Canada. We have problems of our own -- but random searches and "papers, please" for the crime of taking the goddamned train are not one of them.
I'll miss y'all.
Carousel is a lie!
Is it any wonder why many people simply avoid the USA? I know I avoid it whenever I travel. I go so far as to pay extra to stayover within Canada rather than Newark when I travel to the Caribbean. I lay over in Toronto not Newark because I know I'll have way fewer issues. I know there is a TSA in Canada but as my flight will not enter into the USA, it's so much simpler to deal with rather than on a flight that terminates in the USA. Whole different set of rules it seems.
Keep up this Neo-Nazi crazy shit guys! You're only killing your tourism industry.
What makes you think this has anything to do with terrorists.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
If we have to submit to random patdowns and searches everytime we leave our house, why can't we at least have mass rallies with impressive synchronized gymnastics and military parades with bad-ass goosestepping soldiers too?
If we have to have a totalitarian state, why don't we at least get the cool parts too?
Let's see, the TSA authorization bill was sponsored by an R in the house a D in the senate signed into law by an R, became Federal employees due to a D advanced to choice of digital strip search or being felt-up session under a D administration.
The pattern is clear, both major parties care little about personal liberty. Like you, I am surprised to see anyone thinks that either major party cares about the constitution anymore. The R's give more lip service to some parts of the constitution, may actually care about other parts of the constitution. The D's, not so much those parts, but they have other parts they like more than the R's.
If I want to repeal the 16th amendment (the income tax), that does not mean I don't respect the constitution, I just means I want to alter it as provided by the constitution. If I decide that a don't like the 16th and refuse to pay income taxes, then it is truth that I don't really care about the constitution either, just the parts I like. It would be nice if people understand the difference.
Write PAPER letters to your state and national Representatives and Senators (and mayors and governors). Tell them that you want them to OPPOSE this.
Get your friends to write the same kind of PAPER letters to the same people.
If the politicians do not fight this on your behalf, then replace them in the next election cycle.
Get educated. Get motivated. Get involved.
A cynic who stays at home will never change anything.
But checking the tracks is hard and expensive and doesn't give anyone a chance to grope someone else against their will.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
I drive on the freeways armed, as I'm sure many people in TN do. I ride the WA state ferries armed. (I did notice the ferries mentioned in TFA were both interstate transit). But what would they do if I set off their metal detectors? Or if they find guns on a traveler in TN? It's perfectly legal to carry guns in most of the USA.
Also, for trains and ferries, they could refuse to let someone who ignores them board, but what if you refuse a search on the freeway? I used to drive through the border patrol checkpoints in AZ and CA (but not on the border) dozens of times per year. They'd ask if I was a citizen, I'd ask if they had a warrant to compel that information. They'd tell me to answer the question. I'd ask if I was being detained. And after a minute of back and forth, they'd tell me to go. They had no authority to compel me to answer, and they knew it. The TSA should be in the same situation. Without a warrant, they shouldn't be able to do anything but request to question or search a person or vehicle.
I guess one benefit of all of this is that being so blatant about their invasive searches will push popular opinion over the tipping point, and Ron Paul won't be alone calling for the TSA's dissolution in Congress.
It's for the children. And by that I mean it's for the purpose of groping and taking naked pictures of the children.
"It's like the war on drugs"
No, it IS the war on drugs. Under a fraudulent name.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Of course the terrorists lost, you don't see them attacking our freedom anymore!
Now spread your legs and put your hands against the wall.
Please refrain from lumping those hooligans with us, we're gone as far as renaming ourselves the Breast Sucking Aficionados. Hopefully our new acronym won't link us to any other unsavory organization.
The pattern is clear, both major parties care little about personal liberty.
No, it's simpler than that. Most people, of either party, are concerned about looking like they don't care about the safety of the public so they "do something", even if it is a bad something. The "experts" say "do this, it will keep people safe", so they do.
The desire not to be viewed as the cause or reason for another aircraft full of people rammed into a major office building, or another Lockerbie, is a strong motive, and it really has nothing to do with caring about personal liberty. It has a lot to do with the adversarial nature of partisan politics and the fodder that voting against a "keep people safe" measure would give to the opponent if anything happened.
And you know what? The fact that the vast majority of people still fly is a sign to them that they did something and it wasn't that bad. Actions speak louder than words, and a few screaming activitists complaining about "personal liberty" are a lot fewer "actions" than the lines of people who still fly.
The Nazi's didn't go this far.
The threat to buses and trains can be effected from miles/hours away. Case? Stick a large, crooked wedge of metal on a train track to derail the engine. Cost? Almost zero. Effectiveness of the TSA wiping their asses on the Bill of Rights? Less than zero.
Someday, they will tar and feather those who preferred a job with TSA, over panhandling.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Exactly.
Congress controls the purse strings, so the selection for President doesn't ultimately matter with regards to the TSA. I'm sure it would be feasible for a President to sign an executive order dismissing it, but I imagine that would be challenged on numerous fronts and the President called a terrorist-loving anti-American.
I'm feeling pessimistic today. There's nothing that can be done to eliminate the TSA--not now.
He who has no
Do you really think that Ron Paul is a nutjob? Or is it the media telling you he is?
This will ONLY stop when a large number of people begin physically assaulting TSA agents and seriously injuring them. ONLY pain is instructive with these types of people. When the agents are fearful for their lives they will refuse to do what is asked. In a short time, it will stop. There has NEVER been a voluntary surrendering of power/control, and there never will be. Only force counters force.
Alot of people still fly today because that mode of transportation is almost essential to the way business is done globally and even nationally now. Business and even vacations have changed and evolved to welcome being able to travel vast distances at great speeds. I don't think it is possible for a great number of people to stop flying. Though I will often choose not to fly if I can. Like when I traveled to Boston I took the train instead of flying, but I am under no impression that a boycott of air travel is even possible in modern society.
I think that the activists and boycotting with our votes is the best way to achieve the change we need.
Why not do BOTH?
How much does some stationery, envelopes and stamps cost? In time and in money?
The thing is that a PAPER letter has a LOT more weight with elected officials because of what it represents. And it represents someone who is willing to GET OFF HIS ASS and get involved. And that kind of person influences his friends. That is something that you cannot buy.
The same with the protesters at Occupy X.
Someone willing to camp out in a tent is someone who won't have any problem standing in a line to vote.
The person staying home and sending them blankets and food is still more likely to vote than someone who isn't doing anything. Even if they aren't as committed as the protesters.
Staying home and doing NOTHING except complaining on /. is exactly what keeps the situation deteriorating the way it has been.
Get involved. Get as involved as you can be.
tl:dr: The Government is the answer as long as The Right People® are in charge.
I love Bruce, but unless he is appointed as head of the TSA for life, he would last a week. The mob would be screaming for his head after he put real security into place. The mob doesn't want real security. They want bread and circuses. They want TSA jobs.
The TSA has had a decade to get its act together and it has failed. NASA put a man on the moon with a mere 3x the annual budget of the TSA. There are some things the federal government can accomplish, but it requires the political will to make it happen. The political will for the TSA to be a well-functioning security machine is lacking. No one wants it. The mob wants to feel cozy. The politicians want to pander to the mob. The authoritarians want the government to be intrusive; and hey, if the TSA fucks up, it's because they don't have *enough* power.
Put this shit back into the private sector. If the federal government *must* have a role (and after 9/11 I'd say they should) let it be to regulate.
It's vigilante justice and makes you just as bad as the people you are railing against.
Um, no.
On the one hand, you have a powerful group saying "protect!" and instead engaging in wholesale personal violation. For fun and profit.
On the other, you have (potentially) a public group provoked into mob rage by the unjust actions of the above powers-that-be. And who would probably be happier just going about their business but for the bullying actions of these same powers-that-be.
I'm not saying that either is just, but equating them is intellectually dishonest at best.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Who said anything about privatizing? Just terminate TSA and any program it currently supports.
How about just getting your government to make the TSA behave like most other western country's airport security? I've yet to see Canadian and European airport security turn up in a railway station and start frisking passengers.
You would think that when they form a comic book villain organization that they would have the sense not to name it as one. Seriously. VIPR??? It isn't even an original league of evil name. Marvel should sue the US government for trademark violation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Command
How about just getting your government to make the TSA behave like most other western country's airport security? I've yet to see Canadian and European airport security turn up in a railway station and start frisking passengers.
I agree that the German security krewe that screwed with me aren't likely to show up at the Bahnhof by mistake, but this is an international show, Mr. Moore; you can buy your tickets with Euros, too!
On my last trip to Germany (last year), I made the mistake of bringing my reading light. The trip before that one, I had gotten an airplane seat with a broken light, and I wasn't going to suffer through another 10 hours of boredom if I could help it. Unfortunately, this is a somewhat modded LED headlamp: I had one headlamp that had an OK headband and mount, and another one with really neat optics and a broken mount. So I combined them. Unfortunately, aesthetics are not usually my prime concern when I make gadgets for myself—the thing has a largish lump of black epoxy on top where the wires come out. Yeah, it occurred to me that it might confuse people if I stuck this into my pocket, but I couldn't find anything else, and hey, it's obviously a flashlight. How much trouble can that cause?
And in fact, I got through the Dallas-Fort Worth airport just fine. None of the National Security Goons said a thing about it, even though I had my usual snarling match with the dumb f*cks. Ah, but on the way back through the Frankfurt airport, the guy running the carry-on X ray machine literally danced on his tippy-toes, holding my ugly duckling light up high in the air for all to see, calling for a "Sonderuntersuchung". Yep, special handling for the Doctor.
They took me to the Room For Bad Boys (at this point, a certain amount of Reality Skew had already set in, and I was getting junior high school flashbacks). What I thought was really weird is that none of these people understood why I would want a reading light. I tried to explain to them that reading was fun, but was met by looks of blank incomprehension. This was not some sort of language problem, as the Doctor's native language is German. (Well, OK, with a heavy Bavarian accent, but I think even these damn Prussians could understand me just fine!) They kept shining my light on the ceiling (after I showed them how to turn it on); I remember apologizing several times about how dim it was, and offering to change out the nearly dead batteries. Maybe this wasn't a smart thing to say to people who probably can't tell a flashlight from a Klingon phaser. But eventually, they gave me back my reading light, and let me go.
I had taken no more than three steps when I felt a hand on my arm. I was notified (in English) that I had been selected for a "special security check". It was like the scene you've seen in 50 movies where the prisoner is released, thinks the ordeal is over—and is instantly re-arrested by hard-faced guys wearing the 20th century's most snazzy uniforms with those jagged lightning bolt runes. There were at least five of these guys, and two of them were women. Evidently, this somewhat confused paunchy 60+ year old guy with the fuzzy white beard sent the danger meter into the red zone. The woman who was seated behind a desk said, "Empty your pockets please." Further Reality Seepage followed.
I can explain why I lost control. You see, I was wearing my Vest of Many Pockets, and every pocket was filled with things I considered interesting or useful (like reading lights, books, interesting rocks, you know, the usual stuff). I had a mental image of myself emptying out a nearly infinite multitude of pockets, drawing forth who knew what (I certainly had very little memory of what I had collected in the past weeks), a process that, with the accompanying explanations, would clearly consume months. I started laughing. I couldn't help it, I was bent over in paroxysms of laughter, holding on to Frau Schnipperschnapps' desk for support, for what seemed like a
Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary