Slashdot Mirror
EU Scientists Working On Laser To Rip a Hole In Spacetime
astroengine writes "Those pesky physicists are at it again; they want to build a laser so powerful that it will literally rip spacetime apart. Why? To prove the existence of virtual particles in the quantum vacuum, potentially unravel extra dimensions and possibly find the root of dark matter. The $1.6 billion Extreme Light Infrastructure Ultra-High Field Facility (known as ELI) will be built somewhere in Europe by the end of the decade and physicists are hoping the ten high-powered lasers — delivering 200 petawatts of power at a target for less than a trillionth of a second — will turn up some surprises about the very fabric of the Universe."
Commencing Primary Ignition....
Standby...
Standby...
So there I was, scribbling down some notes off the PC screen by hand, when I reached for the keyboard and Ctrl-S'd.
In the event of an alien invasion, can we point it upwards?
Anybody caught making a Frickin' Sharks joke will be permanently labeled a virgin.
If that happens, can I have all that child support I've paid refunded?
You raise an interesting point. How exactly do we detect the absence of spacetime? Presumably if it's ripped apart, either there will be gaps, or somehow we'll make more of it.
-mrxak
Onions Will Kill You
... until the universe segfaults.
That actually happened several times. Ever heard of Louis Slotin or Harry Daghlian?
someone accidentally caused a nuclear fission without taking proper precautions at a lab
That happened, at least twice. See the WIkipedia entries for Harry Daghlian, Jr and Louis Slotin.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
I'm guessing...plaid and flannel.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I think the idea is that you relatively slowly charge up some kind of energy bank, eg ultracapacitors or something, using relatively low power. And then you discharge the bank very very fast - so you get 200 petawatts output, for a trillionth of a second, and then the energy banks are drained and need to be recharged.
It's possible that the energy capacitance is actually an inherent part of the laser physics rather than being stored electrically. I'm not really sure what the details are.
But, 200 PW for one trillionth of a second is actually only 200 kJ total energy if I've done the math correctly - ie about 9% of the dietary energy content of a Big Mac. This would not actually take very long for the world's total electrical generation capacity to deliver. :)
The electric field started out as a model of how charges interact, then he noticed that waves in the electromagnetic field would produce energy transfer at a speed that was the same as that of light.
Einstein's theory of relativity was just a model of how gravity works, a gravitational field was just a mathematical tool for predicting the motions of objects, and black holes were mathematical curiosities that probably did not exist in reality. Today we have observed binary star systems gradually changing their orbits as they lose energy due to gravity waves. Frame dragging of space itself surrounding the earth has been empirically measured in satellites, and several black holes have been found by astronomers.
Quantum mechanical wave functions were models for how elementary particles work, and the Dirac equation predicted negative energy solutions, suggesting each particle had a double of opposite charge. A few years latter the positron was discovered.
Circulation in fluid dynamics is a mathematical quantity used in predicting the flow of fluids. As it happens it cannot simply disappear without viscosity, leading to the concept of vortex tubes, the most famous example of which is a tornado.
Perhaps the greatest prejudice to new ideas is however found in mathematics. Whenever new numbers have been discovered, how have we named them? Negative, irrational , imaginary ... As it happens complex numbers are inherent to the laws of quantum mechanics. You would have a very hard time trying to explain why matter sticks together without them.
It wouldn't be so much tearing a hole in the fabric of space as making a ripple. The laser's electric field would make a wake in the sea of transient vacuum particles that prevents their instantaneous annihilation, and hopefully lets some exotic particles exist for long enough to be detected. Despite the idea that this "quantum foam" of seething virtual particles would be the fabric of space-time, the answers to where and when phenomena would be detected are most likely "in detectors just outside the laser's path" and "femtoseconds after the laser is fired" and not perhaps "in another universe" or "85 million years in the past." This is not a FOX show, after all.
Actually, far more energetic phenomena-- gamma ray bursts-- have been studied to observe the effects their travels through the fabric of space-time on the way to Earth have had, and the results have been pretty mundane. Even for ridiculously high-energy gamma ray photons, the fabric of the universe behaves as being essentially smooth and respectful of general relativity. Maybe we'll see something a bit wilder given a chance to take a closer look, but to describe "pushing some particles apart so we can see them" as "tear apart the vacuum of space" is a bit of an exaggeration.
"FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
I'm not the original AC, but I'll give you a two part argument for it's being lame.
1. The energy density for this device, while pretty spectacular, is still way, way below the range where current competing theories predict exotic results. This has been a problem for projected particle accelerator of the future designs as well, since at least before the Superconducting Supercollider design that was to be built in Texas was canceled by the US Congress. One of the reasons we have gone ahead with new accelerators even though we (as a species) are still tremendously short of achieving the energy levels needs for more direct tests is a few 'work arounds' have been theorized. These are phenomena that are in the range the machine at CERN or others can reach, but that theoretically may be indirectly influenced by Super-symmetry or other theories we can't test more directly. Without some relatively indirect test like this, the Uber-laser still won't be nearly powerful enough to accomplish anything. So, either there's some sort of indirect prediction from one of the String theory variants, or Super-symmetry, or some more exotic theory, and that indirect prediction is down in the energy range that this thing achieves, or they are basically just gambling on something completely unexpected showing up. Since the article doesn't really explain what that indirect, inferential prediction might be, It's seems more likely than not there isn't a specific one. (Of course, it's possible the interviewer didn't get everything into the article.).
2. The article also states that the energy achieved by this device will be equal to a temperature greater than the center of the sun. That sounds impressive, but we've seen some much more energetic events in astrophysics. Lots of Nova/Supernova variants, neutron star related events, and quasars involve energy densities way beyond both the center of our sun and this laser device. We should at least possibly have seen some evidence for the same kind of effects as this widget is supposed to possibly produce by studying existing astronomical events. While that's not absolutely always a good guideline, I know, in the absence of an indirect prediction based on existing theory, I'd be willing to gamble somewhat if the device aimed to mimic the energy densities of some astrophysical event and could point to theories from there as evidence for this 'hole ripping' or 'cosmic hernia' effect. It's not uncommon for sub-atomic physics to take cues from Astrophysics and Cosmology, and vice-versa, but that too doesn't seem to be happening in this case.
Who is John Cabal?
First the shear amount of dumb laser jokes is astounding. It seems very few people bothered to read any of the other posts or bothered to consider that maybe someone else on Shashdot had ever seen Austin Powers. Or Star Trek. Or your favorite SF series here. Real herd behavior in action.
Next, the number of people whining about 200 PETAWATTS!!!!!! was really sad. Are the posters hear actually that ignorant about the concept of instantaneous power values and pulsed power systems? I am surprised by this level of technical ignorance.
Also, does anyone seriously think that a project of this size would be approved without an air tight argument that the experiment will operate in a domain where there are likely to be measurable results? Is it even vaguely possible that physicists picked "200 petawatts of power at a target for less than a trillionth of a second " by guessing? They have a well reasoned case to do the experiment, and part of this is a way to measure the results. But many of the post deride the practicality of the experiment, and even make specific statements that it won't work and that key measurement components are nonexistent. All based around a badly written publicity piece and their extensive personal knowledge of ultra high powered lasers and the mathematics of virtual particle production in the ground state of the space-time vacuum.
The worst and most puzzling part is the shear amount of hostility shown towards science. Assuming that it pork spending, saying it useless, that it can't show anything interesting, that the resources would be better spent somewhere else. All without a shred of logic or reference to any external source. This is the kind of anti-intellectual crap I expect from Fox News, not Slashdot readers. All I see here is a few true nerds surrounded by a bunch of fakes who either express their ignorance directly or try and hide it by making a ridiculous hostile comments.
Why is Snark Required?
He's right though. I go through phases of not reading the comments on science-related articles here for that very reason - the general level of commentary is awful. Sure, not everyone has the knowledge and/or experience required to comment meaningfully, but it would be nice if they would refrain from doing so.
It's official. Most of you are morons.