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DOJ Drops FOIA Rule To Permit Lying
schwit1 writes "The Department of Justice has canceled a controversial revision to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) rules that opponents said would have allowed federal agencies to lie about the existence of records. In a letter to Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley on Thursday, the DOJ wrote that the proposed rule 'falls short' of its commitment to transparency, and it 'will not include that provision when the Department issues final regulations.' The concern now is that the DOJ has been lying for some time and this rule was an attempt to provide cover for past denials concerning the existence of documents."
I'm most confident that we are getting to see what we want to see. Even if they give out info that seems injurious to the parties involved it only gives us an impression of FOIA that makes us feel good. Lot's more to see here folks, and we're not going to see it.
1. Make laws
2. Ignore those laws, do whatever you want
3. Make new laws to cover your lies
4. ???
5. Profit
Now that they're not lying anymore, ask them if they were lying before! Problem solved!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
...is to ask a question to which you already know the answer, and have documentary evidence of that answer.
Because then, if the public authority denies any knowledge, you can publicly enlighten them. Same as if/when you catch them in a barefaced lie.
I've done it a number of times. It's amazing what they'll come out with when you pull them in public for an outright violation of public trust.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
This practice was originally sanctioned un the Reagan administration. This rules change would have formalized the practice that was developed by the Feds under Reagan's AG. By removing the rule change (under the Obama administration) they are effectively barred from covering up the previous lies.
So clearly, Obama is to blame....
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
If they are suspected of having lied in the past, and having issued the lying provision to provide cover for past lies, how can we trust their commitment to not seek approval for lying is truthful? (Debating this question would make a fantastic drinking game).
I know where you're coming from.
I'm sitting on my couch here in England, the Land controlled by the United Kingdom Corporation, Limited (it's on Dunn & Bradstreet, look it up). The UK ("The UK", or "United Kingdom") is a short form of the United Kingdom Corporation, Limited, which is the Legal Entity created by the Crown (the 5 biggest banks in the World, nothing to do with the Queen), which through Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs collects tax to pay interest on loans taken out way back in the second decade of the last Century.
Great Britain, in my mind, ceased to exist in April 1972 when the European Communities Act came into force; this was the first step of Hitler's dream given form less the gas chambers. Europe under one flag, one currency, a Federated Superstate of homogenised regions ordered by *number* not *name*. The days of the Empire were numbered from that point on. As was our ability - nay, our *right* - to self-govern. Our grandparents fought to retain that right for SIX YEARS. The traitors in Government from 1970 until now spit in the faces of our War Dead, they make a mockery of true democracy and they continue to stomp all over the rights of the Population with impunity.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
The whole thing from top to bottom is one big Cluster F*ck.
that he is ending it, so your attempt at spreading the blame is a little silly.
A FOIA search would have never seen the classic “June files” (~1970's) “zero files”, “I-drive”s and "S-drive" over the years.
Documents would have been kept compartmentalized until needed or lost - from any defense legal team or FOIA.
Anyone could request any term and very little would come back - this rush to hide results is strange.
Too much next gen cloud starting to connect too many old databases?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The really sick thing is that this could be a lie.
After all... what better way to make people stop asking questions then to make them believe you first.
I don't really care what their rules are... what we need are independent investigators that how the power to go through records.
We used to have these... they were fired after they refused to play ball. They need to be reengaged. People that are able to see everything... full clearance and no investment in protecting the careers of the guilty.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
It's certainly a comfort that they are not allowed to lie^H^H^H get caught lying. Next I suppose they will be required to pinky swear without crossing their fingers.
If the Department of Justice isn't dedicated to the highest moral standards, there will be no justice.
Wait, so England actually does have the equivalent of the American delusional separatist gun nut?
Strange, it was believed that all their ancestors migrated to, well, America...
It was a real easy answer,
#4. Blame Bush
Though you were being nice we have gotten worse than your list.
1) Have Secret Laws.
2) Have Secret Courts
3) Use intimidation and threat of force to keep them
4) Blame Bush
5) Stay in Power, I mean profit
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Why aren't those whose proposed or recommended such language fired?
Because the ratio of people blaming Obama cf those saying previous presidents did it too is much higher now than the ratio of people blaming bush and people saying previous presidents did it too.
This is rather his own fault, since he's bending over backwards to wooo the right who just see an uppy nigger at worst, or a democrat at best, so he's going to get slammed by them. But, by his attempts to woo these intransigents, he's losing the center who are now not all that pleased with him and he actively slags off the little left you in america have left, so they're not going to be happy with him either.
those aren't the droids you're looking for
someone had to say it
'falls short' of its commitment to transparency"
Well, not really. I wonder who is going to get fired at the DOJ?
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
The rule is retroactive. When it goes into effect, it will allow them to lie now about not including the rule.
Uh... It is pretty clear from emails that Holder and must important people in the Whitehouse were aware of operation Fast and Furious and its ramifications. It is very likely Obama even knew. It is also likely they knew of the consequences, started the illegal initiative (since the BATF and DOJ people involved have turned evidence or got promoted), and were involved in covering up the related deaths. However, the DOJ aren't providing related docs even when Grassley knows it exists and asks specifically for it. At this point nothing the DOJ does is trustworthy and they are seriously damaging their credibility in all cases political or otherwise. Until Holder goes to jail the DOJ is nothing but a political prosecution service. Of course Obama isn't the first there. The DOJ has been used this way since the 80's and got really bad under Bush Jr. (like most things). However, this is the first time the political crap directly killed people and they are protecting the politicians involved.
When was the last time that this country declared war? How many wars are we currently fighting in?
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
The way you ask the question is to grab one of the guards, ask them which door to go through and tell them that they'll be going first.
Parse "DOJ drops the (rule which permits lying)" versus "DOJ (drops rule), in order to allow them to lie." It took me a good minute to work out how TFS and TFH made any sense together.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
We have a name for them, 'euro-sceptics', and there is a surprising number of them sadly.... although they usually don't have guns, and most are atheist.
We have UKIP, a fringe political party that stands on UK independence. It's position is that the Europe Union is a waste of time (which obviously explains why the party leader is a member of the European parliament ????).
We have the BNP, a fringe political party that just wants 'johnny foreigner' to 'go back where he came from'.
We have the EDL. They can't string a coherent sentence together, so I'm not exactly sure what they stand for.
We have the tories (kinda like the UK's version of the GOP), the current ruling party. They pretty much match the stereotype of the 'arrogant, elitist, snobby, englishman...'. One of their election pledges was that they'd hold a referendum on whether we should leave the EU. They've since back tracked on that.
The Freedom of Information act was passed in 1982 (under the Reagan administration) and did have limits on what could be requested. Is that what you are talking about? The current Administrations directive to the Department of Justice to allow them to not acknowledge the existence of documents wasn't like the restrictions that were in line with FOIA in 1982/83 and this current move sounds completely different from preexisting limits.
For example, would the Administration's delays and resistance to presenting documents to Congress on Operation Gun Runner/Operation Fast and Furious be enabled by the attempted new rule? If implemented, wouldn't this completely undercut Congress's Constitutional role in oversight?
And the answer is World War II of course. We didn't delcare war on PRK (Truman), Vietnam(JFK), Grenada/Panama(RR), Iraq 1(GHWB), Afghanistan/Iraq 2 (GWB), or Libya/Yemen/Pakistan/Somolia (BHO). The only one in the list to ignore the War Powers Act (while in force) was BHO.
The 'Euro-skeptics' are probably feeling pretty vindicated right now, I would guess.
You lie to us, why would any grown man knowing this fact, tell you the truth anymore?
You want to say fuck the constitution and rule of law, consider the opposite, where grown men say fuck your laws, and string up oath breakers as the treasonous fucking scum they are. You might as well de-activate FOIA completely, if no information to hold officials accountable is available to be requested, and you can't be compelled to provide it.
.
A bunch of tea-bagging gun nuts who find their attempts at penile enhancement being diminished by other people having bigger guns than they do are hardly worth the effort.
There are concepts within the law that sometimes allow information to be hidden. An ongoing investigation denotes special needs for secrets as anyone who inquires and obtains information can pass it on to the criminals being investigated. It may be quite difficult to get transparency in government as laws will conflict with each other and they will tend to use those laws to the government's advantage. Other examples will be considered as national security issues. For example how much money did the US spend last year for funding war by proxy to other entities? How much hostile action did we pay for against Libya? We will not get good answers.
Make law that says you are allowed to lie.
Make a law that that says you are not allowed to lie.
Second law is a lie; therefore, first saw supersedes.
Lie without breaking the law but now it looks like you are not allowed to!
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/stop-use-eminent-domain-take-peoples-homes-and-give-wal-mart/xqhbwG1s
Europe under one flag, one currency, a Federated Superstate of homogenised regions ordered by *number* not *name*. The days of the Empire were numbered from that point on.
So, were those days of the Empire *named* prior to that point?
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
But do you even live in a democracy anymore if the government is legally allowed to lie to it's citizens?
Wait, your wingnuts are atheists without guns?
Well, THAT explains why they never emigrated...