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The Privatization of Copyright Lawmaking

An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from TorrentFreak: "The biggest misperception about [the Stop Online Piracy Act] is that it is somehow unprecedented or extraordinary. It is not. SOPA represents just the latest example of copyright law defined and controlled not by the government but by private entities. Copyright owners will deploy SOPA in the same way they have behaved in the past: to extend out their rights. They will disrupt sites that do not infringe a copyright, interfere with fair uses of copyrighted works, and take other steps that evade the limits that the Copyright Act sets on a copyright owner's actual rights."

213 comments

  1. The flaw in democracy. by Avarist · · Score: 5, Funny

    And why does the American people still tolerate this again? Surely, in a democracy, every law should be in its people's best interest, no?

    --
    In Capitalist US, the commerce controls the Government.
    1. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Jstlook · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To some extent it was - up until the courts decided that corporations have the same rights (at least one specifically, and others implied by induction) that people do. Now laws are in the best interests of the biggest bank accounts.

      --
      ---jstlook ---For that is the way of Elves, for they say both yes AND no, and mean every word of it. --- J.R.R.T.
    2. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now laws are in the best interests of the biggest bank accounts.

      plus ça change...

    3. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This isn't due to any flaw in democracy; it has nothing at all to do with democracy. These kinds of abuses come from autocratic structures that do not answer to any outsiders. A better way to describe these kinds of systems is 'totalitarian.' Of course, democracy is a nice word that we have all been taught applies to our systems of centralized planning and property, but just 5 minutes of thinking about it should induce uncontrollable laughter. The fact that most Americans don't laugh is a sign of how deeply indoctrinated much of the population, especially the political and technical class, has become. The Soviet system was similar. The intelligentsia (including the technical intelligentsia) needed to be well-indoctrinated. The remaining 80% would follow, as guided by the 20% of `proper' thinkers and the truly mass media. In the US, the situation is nearly indistinguishable. The mass media depends on things like publicly subsidized sports (franchises run by universities with the profits primarily going to private owners) and `popular' music and movies. It is crucial that these means of mass control remain firmly in the grip of private power; mass media is the primary means by which popular consent is shaped in the US and projected abroad.

      The reality is that no modern corporation -- be it a financial institution, a mass media distributor (RIAA/MPAA/etc), or whatever -- can tolerate democracy. We can see how the machinery respond to even modest democratic initiatives, such as the occupy movement: hysteria. They can't tolerate 'free markets' either, but that's a different (though related) story. What we see now are interrelated systems of global mercantilism backed by state power and by a hugely profitable propaganda system, which we now call the media and public relations, and those propaganda systems depend on favorable 'IP laws.'

    4. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's like the old Communist joke:

      "Communism is for the best of man. And at the last parade, I've even gotten to see that man."

      It's kinda sad if the old dictatorship jokes start to apply to nominally democratic systems.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is fundamental to our system: corporations can continue to lobby, year after year, until the goverment finally caves in -- even if that requires corporate employees to temporarily join the government in positions of power.

      Until this changes, we're going to be slowly become more and more fucked.

    6. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that you're the chicken.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

      my tank is full of gas and there is a chicken in my pot, what is the problem?

      I hate it when that happens. Get him out quick, he'll go crazy and eat hundreds of dollars worth of weed.

    8. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And why does the American people still tolerate this again? Surely, in a democracy, every law should be in its people's best interest, no?

      How sad is it that this got modded 'funny'. I am not laughing

    9. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Caesar+Tjalbo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The politico-media complex at its finest. Sometimes also called the political-legal-media complex. I propose to call it: the Berlusconi complex.

      --
      "I'm not much interested in interoperability. I want substitutability. I want to be able to throw your software out."
    10. Re:The flaw in democracy. by znerk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now laws are in the best interests of the biggest bank accounts.

      Not familiar with The Golden Rule? "He who has the gold makes the rules."

      Not disagreeing with you, by the way, just wanted to point out that what you said is similar to a Mitch Hedburg joke.
      "I used to do a lot of drugs. I still do, but I used to, too."

      I'm still waiting for corporate entities to be executed for capital crimes - until then, I won't actually believe they're people. A possible alternative would be to make the CEO of the company directly and personally responsible for everything the company does, as if the CEO had done it him/her self - make 'em earn those golden parachutes by risking life in prison.

      --
      This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
    11. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Pi1grim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Freedom is not something you achieve and then enjoy for the rest of your life. It's something that you have to fight for every day of your life. So what you are talking about — is nothing new. Corporations have their interests, you have yours. They will keep trying to get what they want, so should you. The whole idea of democracy is based on balance: everybody is trying as hard as they can to get what they want and everything ends up in a compromise. If the balance is shifting somewhere — you should push harder, it's just that.

    12. Re:The flaw in democracy. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They do let the vox populi have it's say on issues on no great importance - thus why one of the biggest political issues of our time is gay marriage. What does gay marriage or the lack thereof actually do? Nothing at all. Which is why politicians love it so. They can pose, they can pander, they can play all their political games and chase votes, but in the end there is no chance they'll actually do anything that might upset the big money.

    13. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US isn't a democracy, it's a democratic republic. That means a US citizen chooses their masters/representatives and relies on them to defend their best-interests.

      In theory that may be enough to get a decent government to work, but in practice that doesn't happen. The only reason that leads the potential representatives to cater to the populace is to get their vote on key timeframes, by pandering irrelevant and largely inconsequent issues, such as the race of a presidential candidate, where he was born or how to finance a specific branch of government. Between elections, they pander to those who made their election possible, which are special interests groups who pay the biggest percentage of their campaign fund and even some kickbacks here and there. And this brings us to this discussion, where politicians cater to those special interests groups.

    14. Re:The flaw in democracy. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      ...A possible alternative would be to make the CEO of the company directly and personally responsible for everything the company does, as if the CEO had done it him/her self - make 'em earn those golden parachutes by risking life in prison.

      And I would accept that alternative if the definition of "life" in prison was a bit more than a few days(or hours) for the Hollywood/Executive 1% elite...(gotta love those Lohan sentencing guildelines...apparently her freckles count as "time served".)

      Besides, unless we started getting smarter about arrests, what do you think an exec with a few billion at his/her disposal is going to do the instant they post bail facing that kind of punishment? I'm certain they would find a comfortable life with their stolen money in a non-extradition country...

    15. Re:The flaw in democracy. by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

      > Surely, in a democracy, every law should be in its people's best interest, no?

      Yes. But in this case the 'people' is the corporations.

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    16. Re:The flaw in democracy. by shentino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That ruling was only a "problem" because washington is full of corrupt assholes that allow themselves to be legally bribed.

      Trust me, the biggest wallets have ALWAYS outvoted the little folks. The court ruling just made obvious what was already going on behind the scenes.

    17. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Slashdot+Assistant · · Score: 1

      What does gay marriage or the lack thereof actually do? Nothing at all. Which is why politicians love it so.

      No great importance? Sure, if you've no appreciation for the civil liberties and legal issues caused by this anachronistic and inequitable prohibition.

    18. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >my tank is full of gas and there is a chicken in my pot, what is the problem?

      For you? Apparently nothing. For people who value freedom and democracy? You are the problem! You're not the whole problem or even a significant part of it, but still.

    19. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, but his point is that noble causes are frequently used as fig leaves. Larger issues remain outside of the scope of public discussion and are typically counter to the interests of the population. This tactic serves to give the population the illusion of participation in political issues. Of course, go on all day talking about gays or abortion (again, important issues in their own rights). Just don't get too worked up over the issues that affect your owners. In a democracy, *all* of those issues would be discussed, not just the ones that are inconsequential to real power.

    20. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Problem: Fighting for rights takes time and effort.

      We have lives, they have enough money to pay people to sit on the phone all day doing it for them.

      --
      No sig today...
    21. Re:The flaw in democracy. by blahplusplus · · Score: 1, Interesting

      "What we see now are interrelated systems of global mercantilism "

      No what we're seeing is the true face of the free market, the free market has ALWAYS had the nanny state to protect it, only morons use linguistic obscurantism like yourself to protect your favored ideal from any kind of rational criticism.

    22. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um... looks like you actually agree with that post. Maybe you're confused by the "linguistic obscurantism"?

    23. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      the free market has ALWAYS had the nanny state to protect it.

      That's a strange definition of a free market.

    24. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or they *could* put the person on the no-fly list and also take the travel documents due to flight risk.

    25. Re:The flaw in democracy. by znerk · · Score: 3, Funny

      ... or we could just shoot them.

      --
      This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
    26. Re:The flaw in democracy. by pro151 · · Score: 1

      Are you a Troll? Can't find anywhere else to try to stir up trouble this morning?

    27. Re:The flaw in democracy. by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

      The reality is that no modern corporation -- be it a financial institution, a mass media distributor (RIAA/MPAA/etc), or whatever -- can tolerate democracy. [...] They can't tolerate 'free markets' either, but that's a different (though related) story.

      I believe you're making the rather common mistake of conflating free and competitive.
      A market can be free without being competitive.
      And a market can be competitive without being free.

      I'd rather have the latter, but we frequently end up with the former.
      Of course, competitive and free is best.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    28. Re:The flaw in democracy. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This isn't due to any flaw in democracy; it has nothing at all to do with democracy.

      Au contraire, it has everything to do with the most fundamental premised of Democracy. The greatest enemy of Democracy is, apathy. Not communisim. Not terrorism of Wahhabis and Quereshis[*]. Not even the reasoned argument, "there is nothing to stop people from voting themselves benefits they call ill afford and refuse to pay for it. The debt will accumulate and destroy the system from within". No sir. Once people lose interest in the functioning of the government, stop paying attention, stop trying to separate the misinformation from the correct information, once people are deluded enough to believe in policy statements that fit into a bumper sticker or a 30 second sound bit, that would be the time Democracy stops working for the people.

      It is far easier to steal a penny from million people than to steal $10000 from one person. Every dollar wasted by the government is an ill-gotten undeserved revenue for someone. That someone will fight tooth and nail to continue the waste. Those will engage in all sorts of misinformation campaigns. If people are not vigilant they will lose. If people don't see that they lose something when fair use is constrained, when ??AA engage in legal extortion etc, the people will lose it.

      ----- [*] We should avoid using overly broad terms like Islamic Terrorism, or Jihadism. Such terms unify Muslims against external threats, and using the same terms plays into the hands of the terrorists. Use the minimal group label to tie terrorism to a smaller group. There is no point in antagonizing a larger group than necessary.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    29. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The reality is that no modern corporation -- be it a financial institution, a mass media distributor (RIAA/MPAA/etc), or whatever -- can tolerate democracy. We can see how the machinery respond to even modest democratic initiatives, such as the occupy movement: hysteria."

      You could not be worse. The reality is that modern corporations are hijacking the democratic legislative process, using their influence, clearly by the help of financial campaign and other support. The purpose of this hujacking in clearly to provide financial benefit for the specific interest group at the expense of the rest of the society.
      It is major part why "1%" controls the rest.

      Occupy movement is rightly against this, calling it hysteria, is like calling you an ignorant idiot.

    30. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I believe you're making the rather common mistake of conflating free and competitive.
      A market can be free without being competitive.
      And a market can be competitive without being free.

      I'd rather have the latter, but we frequently end up with the former.
      Of course, competitive and free is best.

      This is one of the points of the popular right-wing propaganda: to confuse the discussion by evacuating all meaning from such terms. In the mind of normal people, there is no difference between "free" and "competitive" when it comes to markets. This is not an accident. Of course there is a technical definition of "free," which you correctly point out: rigged in the interest of power. The public is to remain ignorant of this technical definition. So while I would argue that a free market does not exist and cannot be permitted to exist by global corporations, I am using an antiquated definition: the one that Adam Smith used. The fact that we are discussion this issue of definitions bears testament to the success of the PR machinery in the US. This sort of confusion does wonders to marginalize, confuse, and paralize discussion.

    31. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Protip: try actually reading the post.

    32. Re:The flaw in democracy. by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      What has changed is the relative power of the average voter and the rich. Until relatively recently, you could fight for your interests, and have some sway over politicians. Now, you can do that, and they will ignore you.

    33. Re:The flaw in democracy. by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 0

      Glad to see you admit that you don't care.

    34. Re:The flaw in democracy. by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Competitive and free are mutually exclusive. A free market always ends up as a collection of monopolies or oligopolies due to the simple fact that free means no constraints on the advantages of scale and accumulated wealth to stamp out competition. The US prior to the Sherman act is an illustrative example.

    35. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totalitarian. Do you even know what that means? Apart from being a 5-syllable word in your pompous post.

    36. Re:The flaw in democracy. by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No great importance? Sure, if you've no appreciation for the civil liberties and legal issues...

      You've just illustrated the point: you're so distracted by the gay marriage issue that you've missed the fact that the government is destroying all our other civil liberties (free speech, due process, no illegal search and seizure, etc.)!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    37. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The greatest enemy of Democracy is, apathy.

      Absolutely true. But the absence of democracy is not an argument against democracy. We should encourage and support democracy by reminding people that they do, indeed, have a stake in democracy. The prevailing institutions do the opposite. They tend to isolate people and destroy solidarity, which leads to apathy. You have it correct. Apathy is deadly, but it is one of the key sentiments fostered by the mass media.

    38. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It describes perfectly a corporation. Strict top-down control and no democratic levers. You do what you're told, or you're out.

      BTW, it has 6 syllables.

    39. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      We are more and more turning into the world depicted by Max Headroom.

      It's kind of depressing that a fictional movie and TV series got it so right.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    40. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What does gay marriage or the lack thereof actually do? Nothing at all.

      Unless you're gay and want to marry your partner, in which case it does quite a lot.

      Never assume that the freedoms you care most about are the ones that are most important to other people. You want to live your life as you see fit; so does everyone else, and what you see fit to do may well be something that's of no interest to them.

      Support other people's freedoms. It gives them a motivation to support yours.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    41. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the big money that funded the Federal Reserve and got a monopoly on money-creation in the US is the same big money that brought Trotsky over the ocean from New York, and provided the millions in funding for the Bolshevik Revolution. So it stands to reason that the control systems wielded by the elite would be similar.

    42. Re:The flaw in democracy. by ATMAvatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm still waiting for corporate entities to be executed for capital crimes - until then, I won't actually believe they're people. A possible alternative would be to make the CEO of the company directly and personally responsible for everything the company does, as if the CEO had done it him/her self - make 'em earn those golden parachutes by risking life in prison.

      Unfortunately, we're long past the point where that could ever be a possibility. We can't even get corporations to pay meaningful fines for breaking the law, let alone something like a corporate-equivalent of capital punishment. In fact, I am not sure of any non-trivial criminal penalty (even as a sizable fine) has ever been levied against a corporation in the last century. We rely entirely upon lawsuits to keep corporations in line, which both stacks the deck heavily in favor of the near infinite legal budget of the corporation and carries a stigma of injustice against the poor, benevolent, victimized corporations.

      No, corporate personhood is all about granting nearly all individual rights to a faceless entity and taking away nearly all responsibilities from the entity and those who control it.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    43. Re:The flaw in democracy. by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2

      That's because people don't understand why the classic free market is good: it isn't good just because, it is good because when combined with the theoretical characteristics of perfect competition, it will lead to the lowest prices and the best service. Most people, especially Americans, have completely lost track of this requirement, and instead have elevated the free market to a religion. It is now the Free Market, and anyone who questions the Free Market is a heretic, to be burned at a stake.

      Democracy needs an educated voting population. The US is doomed.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    44. Re:The flaw in democracy. by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      No, it's the understanding that we all have limited time available to us, most of it being spent either sleeping or working in an area other than politics. It's not a question of caring, it's a question of resources. And most people in a democracy don't have the resources to lobby someone long enough to change their mind. Corporations, on the other hand, do.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    45. Re:The flaw in democracy. by ATMAvatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Though apathy is definitely a large part of our current dilemma, it is not the point made above. Rather, the point is that your average person would be homeless and hungry if they spent all their time fighting the good fight, while on the other side, lobbyists are *paid* to fight against our rights. In no universe is that a balanced equation.

      The counterbalance to that proposed by the founding fathers was that our representatives were to be intelligent, selfless, benevolent leaders of men which would fight for the best interests of their constituents. These representatives would have paid, full-time duties towards that end.

      We can see in hindsight that this was a naive, idealistic view of things, only made worse by the formation of political parties and the distillation of seats in Congress to an increasingly small ratio of the population.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    46. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Avarist · · Score: 1

      Except it's democracy that allowed this to happen. As Churchill once wisely said: "Democracy is the worst kind of ruling, except for all the other ones we've tried."

      --
      In Capitalist US, the commerce controls the Government.
    47. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They take your tax money to work against you. So in the end, the people can only win by rebellion and force. Unfortunately for you, they also control the military.

    48. Re:The flaw in democracy. by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      The fact that most Americans don't laugh is a sign of how deeply indoctrinated much of the population, especially the political and technical class, has become.

      I don't laugh because I see no hope for improvement (improvement requires a motivated people, which we don't have), and it depresses me deeply.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    49. Re:The flaw in democracy. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      or they *could* put the person on the no-fly list and also take the travel documents due to flight risk.

      Nice try...too bad most of the elitist 1% fly their own way (Netjets or some other private service), so fat chance keeping them grounded.

    50. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Slashdot+Assistant · · Score: 1

      You've just illustrated the point: you're so distracted by the gay marriage issue that you've missed the fact that the government is destroying all our other civil liberties (free speech, due process, no illegal search and seizure, etc.)!

      Mr Internet man. Is there an official website somewhere with a list of the "real" civil liberties we should be demanding?

    51. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't laugh because I see no hope for improvement (improvement requires a motivated people, which we don't have), and it depresses me deeply.

      Take heart. There is hope.

    52. Re:The flaw in democracy. by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      You should write a sociology paper and refer the entity you describe as the Berlusconi/Murdoch complex, it would be more universal that way.

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    53. Re:The flaw in democracy. by hey! · · Score: 1

      And why does the American people still tolerate this again?

      Well, what mechanism do the American people have for acting on their *in*toleration, once access to money becomes absolutely essential to getting elected, and wealth is able to exercise the influence without any restrictions?

      Surely, in a democracy, ...

      That's the rub, isn't it? Of course we are *formally* a democratic republic according to our Constitution, but the question is how effectively our republic still *functions* as a democracy. It's not either/or. The people might still be able to throw the bums out over a huge bungle like the Iraq war, and that is unquestionably democracy in action. Still that's a far cry from being able to elect representative who will work in the public interest. There's plenty of bipartisanship in Congress in favor of things like copyright extension, but that has nothing to do with serving the interests of the public. Both sides agree because they can't afford to let the other side have sole access to the money that position attracts.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    54. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, that's garbage.

      It was true 50 years ago, maybe, it no longer is now. When congress can vote laws into effect that protect them without the knowledge of their constituents, when dollars equal votes and companies equal people because of these very same laws, when companies scratch government's backs and vice versa to maintain the status quo, then the deck is stacked to the point that the masses who believe in the democratic process have no ability to influence the outcome, regardless of their interest.

      The american government is at a point where it can assassinate american citizens for crimes that never go to trial, based on a biased review without even holding a hearing to determine if the individual is actually guilty of suspected crimes (if any, who knows), where such assassination can be carried out and there is no accountability after the fact, due to having any inquiry quashed in the interest of "protecting state secrets". I'm coming off as a quack and a conspiracy theorist, which is sad, because these are facts that have been documented under the situation with Awlaki. Even upon research it is still likely that I would come across as a kook, because the mass media pushes the government's line, just look at the vilifying of Assange with the wikileaks fiasco.

      So we have a situation where the masses trust the pablum that they are spoonfed through the media (and well they should, they should be able to trust the media!), but if they were to dig deeper and come across the hard facts, they would be powerless to affect it due to laws voted in by the government to affect their own private concerns. And if, against all odds, they were able to make a difference to the point that people stood up and took notice, they could be vilified by the government and same media, made to appear as a threat to the country as a "terrorist" or "dissident", arrested under the PATRIOT act, or just simply disappeared with no available course of public inquiry.

      No sir, I do not agree with you at all.

    55. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who pissed in your cherios? Gay marriage is an issue of "no great importance" not because it isn't important to gays, but because it impacts upon LESS THAN HALF A PERCENT of the population. Asshole.

    56. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, corporate personhood is all about granting nearly all individual rights to a faceless entity and taking away nearly all responsibilities from the entity and those who control it.

      Corporate personhood is not the problem. The problem with Citizens United is not "corporations are people." It's not even "money is speech." It's the inherent fact that speech costs money, so people with no money get no speech. And there is an easy fix for that: Public financing of elections. But people don't like it, because they don't want their dollars going to political campaigns. (Apparently they would prefer that it be AT&T's dollars.)

      People just don't seem to understand what limited liability is. If you're the CEO of a corporation and you hire an assassin to kill your competitor's engineering team, you go to jail for murder. Limited liability has nothing to do with it.

      If you sell toys with lead paint, the victims sues and gets a judgment. If the corporation is not bankrupted by the judgment, limited liability doesn't do anything. The corporation pays the victims, the end. If the shareholders want the CEO to pay the judgment, they can put that in his employment contract before it happens, or they can condition his future employment on him paying it. It's completely between the CEO and the shareholders.

      All limited liability does is make it so that if the judgment is so large that it bankrupts the entire corporation, the victims can't go after the shareholders or the officers too. Unless the corporation ceases to exist, it doesn't really come into play. It isn't the cause of corruption in Washington and it isn't the cause of music labels ripping off the artists.

      What it is is a moral hazard in finance: The corporation can take your money and make a risky bet at a 40:1 margin. If they win the bet then they make the corporation a billion dollars and take home a fair chunk of that as a bonus. If they lose then the entire company goes bankrupt but the officers don't have to pay for it. And the solution there isn't even to eliminate limited liability, it's disclosure requirements. If you're a securities trader making a trade that, if you lose, will cause you to be unable to pay what you promised, you should have to disclose that to the other party or be subject to criminal penalties. Then nobody in their right mind will be willing to be the other side of those transactions and the problem will go away.

      Corporate personhood is not the problem. Limited liability is not the problem. The problem is that we have more government spending than tax revenue but nobody wants to pay more taxes and nobody is willing to gore their own ox. The problem is that wealthy and organized parties like record labels and telecoms are better able to shape legislation than unorganized parties like artists and consumers.

      You can't take the money and power out of money and power. All you can do is see to it that you get your share.

    57. Re:The flaw in democracy. by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hope you didn't construe my post to mean that gay marriage is less "real" than other civil liberties; it's important too. My point was that myopically focusing on gaining a new right blinds us to the erosion of the ones we already have.

      As for an "official" list, just read the Bill of Rights. Almost all of them are under attack, and the only reason the 3rd Amendment isn't is that quartering troops in people's houses is less profitable for the military-industrial complex than constructing new barracks!

      Here are some examples of attacks on our rights that (in my opinion) need to be dealt with more urgently than gay marriage:

      • First Amendment: "Free Speech Zones," police breaking up "Occupy..." or "Tea Party" protests, sanctions against Wikileaks, takedowns of web content/seizure of domain names, etc. (And yes, gay rights too.)
      • Second Amendment: [This one is doing relatively good; I'm having trouble thinking up examples.] Let's see... the continuing ban on automatic weapons, no guns allowed on college campuses, the continuing argument by some that bearing arms is some kind of "collective" right (when it should be obvious that this right is intended to support citizens' right to rebel against tyranny; after all, that's what the guys that wrote it had just finished doing!)
      • Fourth Amendment: warrantless wiretaps, GPS tracking, airport scanners, civil forfeiture, fewer protections for "new media" such as email and the contents of cellphones, etc.
      • Fifth through Eighth Amendments: Guantanamo Bay, extraordinary rendition, eminent domain abuse, refusal of various courts to re-try old cases based on new DNA evidence, etc.
      • Ninth and Tenth Amendments: vast expansion of Federal regulation, the existence of unconstitutional bureaucracies, Federal control of states via "earmarks" (where taxes flow from the People to the Federal government which then doles the money back out with strings attached, instead of allowing the taxes to simply go straight to the state governments instead), etc.
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    58. Re:The flaw in democracy. by dontmakemethink · · Score: 2

      A corporation is not like a person, it is like a church, the difference being that in church people exercise their faith, while in a corporation people exercise a complete absence of faith. It's what gives corporations their god-like power.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    59. Re:The flaw in democracy. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Informative

      If the shareholders want the CEO to pay the judgment, they can put that in his employment contract before it happens, or they can condition his future employment on him paying it. It's completely between the CEO and the shareholders.

      The problem is that "the shareholders" (of any voting block size) are all "in the club" and would never ask a potential new CEO to accept anything as *shudder* gauche as liability. The things that are deemed acceptable, even for owners of tiny little $10M companies, wouldn't pass the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" fairness test of an 8 year old.

      Apparently, it is accepted as fair and reasonable for an owner to offer a block of restricted shares to the employees for purchase to help the company during a time of crisis. These shares are priced at 1/2 current market and may not be sold for a period of one year. The year represents risk, and the 1/2 market price represents reward... sound fair so far? At the same time, the owner (secretly) offers himself a block of shares four times as large as the employees at 1/4 market price, restricted for a period of 6 months. This only comes out after 6 months have passed and the owner's sale of a portion of these shares is made public. The deal was "approved" by a paid "ethics consultant." Pure genius.

      He who has the gold makes the rules, indeed, and those rules invariably give him more gold in the end.

    60. Re:The flaw in democracy. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The little folks need to step up and push for more transparency in their government, now that it is actually possible. If politicians and big wallets want to scratch each other's backs, make it bright and clear for all to see what is going on... especially other politicians who can point it out to gain popularity from their colleagues weakness.

    61. Re:The flaw in democracy. by zugmeister · · Score: 0

      It seems you have an insufficiently overdeveloped sense of cynicism. It made me giggle.

    62. Re:The flaw in democracy. by tqk · · Score: 1

      It's from the lyrics to a song by Rush. Are you more ignorant than a Canuck?

      I'm a Canuck, and fsck you too. It's a lot older than fscking rock group lyrics (Plus_Ãa_change. "Plus ca change, plus ce meme chose", or en Englais, "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

      Go back to kindergarten and start over fool.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    63. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Dripdry · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have a handful of fabulous gay neighbors. Really, they're awesome. I have gay clients and honestly enjoy their company more than most people's.
      Perhaps you don't feel affected by the enormous loss of rights yet. However, what I think people are trying to say is that the foundations of a country are not predicated upon marriage or abortion issues. They are built on basic, inalienable rights of all people. Erode those, and clinging to other rights is just clinging to the top of the mast on a sinking ship.

      --
      -
    64. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 1

      The problem is that "the shareholders" (of any voting block size) are all "in the club" and would never ask a potential new CEO to accept anything as *shudder* gauche as liability. The things that are deemed acceptable, even for owners of tiny little $10M companies, wouldn't pass the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" fairness test of an 8 year old.

      The corporation is owned by the shareholders. If the CEO doesn't pay then the shareholders do, out of the assets of the corporation they own. They clearly don't have any incentive to pay out of their own assets rather than making the CEO pay. They just know that they have a choice, either to pay the CEO more to compensate for taking on the liability or to pay him less and have the corporation assume it. Basically, paying the CEO to insure them against liability, because he (theoretically) is the lowest cost avoider. You can speculate about what it says that they choose not to do that, but what does it matter to you how they choose to buy insurance?

      At the same time, the owner (secretly) offers himself a block of shares four times as large as the employees at 1/4 market price, restricted for a period of 6 months. This only comes out after 6 months have passed and the owner's sale of a portion of these shares is made public.

      OK, so the owner is secretly diluting the shares he promised to the employees, is that the problem? Because I would expect that to be illegal. Insider trading, no?

    65. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you forget, Mister Bond: No one was thrown out over the Iraq war :)

      --
      -
    66. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. If the government funds campaigns then the government will likely distribute the money unfairly. and that still won't necessarily stop the private funding of campaigns on top of the public funding. Politicians that support corporations will likely now get double the funding.

      The problem has a lot to do with monopolized media. The Internet is a much more open platform the way it stands now (something politicians are trying to 'fix') which makes it much easier for people to communicate their campaigns without giving corporations something in return. and various elected officials from various cities (and even members of Congress) have based a large portion of their campaigns on Facebook and other Internet distribution platforms and would likely not have gotten elected otherwise.

      The problem is that, over the years, the government has wrongfully took something that rightfully belongs to the public (ie: the right to freely broadcast over public airwaves at will) and required licenses to use it. Over the years the government has essentially taken what should be a public good and handed over/sold exclusive privileges over to private corporations. And the same thing is true of the use of cableco infrastructure and the need to get rights of way in order to build ones own cableco network. Those private corporations that control these government established monopoly privileges will likely favor candidates that favor their agenda. and their government established monopoly power gives them a very large audience which gives them a huge unfair advantage. It is more difficult and inconvenient for voters to get properly informed about and aware of alternative candidates or to even know the full position on various issues of every candidate, yet alone to be aware of half of the bad laws that politicians do pass and how those laws are abused to even know what needs to be fixed, yet alone whom to vote for. When voters don't have access to media that informs them of these issues how can they choose to view or subscribe to such media?

      If we had a much more open communication structure a long time ago, one that didn't grant cableco monopolies so that alternative cable stations can offer a wider diversity of information, one that granted fewer broadcasting monopolies with fewer restrictions so that we can better (find new and innovative ways to) use those communication channels to openly communicate (instead of having laws that effectively ban such innovation from the outset) then voters will be much more capable of seeking and acquiring more in depth knowledge over a wider array of subjects and they will be able to better seek a more diverse set of opinions. The problem is that much of this has been denied us through government established media cartels that use the power of the state to keep prohibited information and competing views out of the public eye.

    67. Re:The flaw in democracy. by neyla · · Score: 2

      Yes. And the theoretical free market with perfect competition would also allow near-zero profits. Afterall if goods are perfectly substitutable and all buyers are perfectly informed, they'll all buy from the cheapest vendor, and thus the price will be just *slightly* above the production-cost of the second-cheapest producer.

      Furthermore, in step 2, every company except the cheapest producer will go bankrupt, which eliminates the competition.

      Free markets thus, by definition, cannot exist over time.

    68. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 1

      I disagree. If the government funds campaigns then the government will likely distribute the money unfairly. and that still won't necessarily stop the private funding of campaigns on top of the public funding. Politicians that support corporations will likely now get double the funding.

      As for distributing money unfairly, you can pretty well expect both the democrats and the republicans to get funded and for nobody else to. First past the post voting systems make third parties useless anyway, so that isn't any real loss, and it allows the democratic and republican candidates to voice opinions that they otherwise would not because it would lose them donors.

      And sensible public financing schemes require the candidate to choose whether they want public or private financing. They can't get both. Of course, that doesn't include the "independent expenditures" corporations make outside the control of the candidate. But even then, ask yourself which is better: To have a corporate candidate who has a million dollars of corporate money against a non-corporate candidate with a thousand dollars of non-corporate money, or to have a corporate candidate with two million dollars and a non-corporate candidate with a million dollars because they each got a million dollars of public financing? The latter is obviously much better for the non-corporate candidate than the former.

      I would agree that we ought to delaminate the telecoms though. All you really need to do is create one company that owns and maintains the physical wire that comes into your house and is regulated as a public utility and must lease access to the wire to anyone who wants it for uniform and published prices. Then whatever is left of the rest of them can go off and compete with Skype and Netflix.

    69. Re:The flaw in democracy. by HopefulIntern · · Score: 1

      Not just corporate entities. If everyone was equal under the law, there would be many more people on trial for war crimes, not just frail old Serbian men.

    70. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      make 'em earn those golden parachutes by risking life in prison.

      Can't we just make that metaphor a reality for them by giving them a real gold parachute and pushing them out of a plane. It would be ironilicious.

    71. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grow a sense of humour. (P.S. I'm Canadian, a huge fan of the band, and I'm well aware that Neil Peart did not invent the phrase.)

      TL;DR *whooosh*

    72. Re:The flaw in democracy. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      At the same time, the owner (secretly) offers himself a block of shares four times as large as the employees at 1/4 market price, restricted for a period of 6 months. This only comes out after 6 months have passed and the owner's sale of a portion of these shares is made public.

      OK, so the owner is secretly diluting the shares he promised to the employees, is that the problem? Because I would expect that to be illegal. Insider trading, no?

      A bigger issue than the dilution (which amounted to approximately 1-2%), was the representation of "the deal," and his participation in the risk. At the time, what was represented to the employees was that the owner was "participating in the deal" and buying a "larger quantity of shares" than the employees. What was not disclosed was the variation in his price and restriction period.

      Imagine if the mayor of your town (someone you have known for years, and are supposed to respect and trust) asks you, the public, to buy into a bond issue and represents that, despite the city's dire financial straits and D-- credit rating, he himself is also participating in the offering. What would happen if a similar disparity of terms were revealed after the public participants were locked in?

      Amusingly, in my company's case, the shares did fall to 1/4 their value before recovering, they recovered to roughly 2x by the time the year lockout expired (so, employees profited by a factor of 4x at that time) and, due to a .com tie-in, spiraled to 12x that value within the next 2 years. The 12x inflation leaked back out after .com popped.

      In post .com years, the company first acquired a trust fund backed family as loyal supporters, and later was courted by big oil money. As you might imagine, children raised in the '60s and supported their entire life by trust fund money (beyond living expense money they all received guaranteed annual $25K Christmas "bonuses," and some of them were generating income from their own investment activity) , these people were a little on the idealistic side. When the big oil money came around and proposed what was essentially a pump and dump scheme, they all balked based on the fact that big oil wanted to keep a lion's share of the profit from the pump and dump, they still hadn't really learned that "he who has the gold, makes the rules..."

    73. Re:The flaw in democracy. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Well, we don't have a democracy, we have a plutocratic republic. This is no different than any other industry; the AMA writes doctor laws, the drug companies write drug laws (the real reason pot is illegal), etc. It's pervasive.

    74. Re:The flaw in democracy. by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Good point, but one of two things happen: either the monopolist tries to abuse their monopoly by raising prices, or they keep them level. In the first case, a free market with perfect competition will immediately have competitors jump in and undercut the monopolist, bringing the system back to the status quo. In the second case - who cares? The price and service are as optimal as they can be, and there is no need for competitors.

      For your last point, you're confusing free markets with monopolies. The two are distinct. While they are related, they are not identical.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    75. Re:The flaw in democracy. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      A corporation is not like a person, it is like a church, the difference being that in church people exercise their faith, while in a corporation people exercise a complete absence of faith.

      A Christian has no more or less faith in his God than the corporates have faith in mammon. Mammon is revealed to be a fickle god often in history -- 1929 and 2008 being good examples of their god's "power". And, of course, when no amount of money will keep you alive you might consider that you've been worshiping the wrong god.

      So yes, a corporation is indeed like a church; a bank is a house of worship to greedheads. But if they had no faith in money, money would have no power (Germany's hyperinflation before WWII is a good example). When mammon worshipers lose faith in their little green god, it loses its power.

    76. Re:The flaw in democracy. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      People just don't seem to understand what limited liability is. If you're the CEO of a corporation and you hire an assassin to kill your competitor's engineering team, you go to jail for murder.

      If I get drunk and run over someone, I'll go to jail for negligent homicide. But if a corporation breaks safety rules that prevent a buildup of explosive gasses and the mine expolodes, killing two dozen men, nobody goes to jail, even though that's plainly negligent homicide.

      It's perfectly legal for corporations to kill human beings.

    77. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you are looking for the approval of your choice by the rest of society. If you wanted to live life how you wanted then whether society recognizes your union or not should make no difference to you.

      What is this word freedom? And where do you get it? I heard of a place which said it was the land of the free, but then I talked to the Dixie Chicks.

      He was saying that it is not an issue which big money will gives two shakes about, it won't care if you support it or not, it will not stop the money from flowing. They don't have to say no to Oil, or no to Nuclear power, they can say no to gay marriage, and depending where you live (Texas = elected), it makes you look like your taking a stand. And you won't piss of your oil friends.

    78. Re:The flaw in democracy. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 1

      I don't think the problem is what you think it is.

      You say that it's plainly negligent homicide, but if it was then what stops them from being charged with it? I suspect the answer is one of two things. Either what they did isn't considered negligent homicide under the law (perhaps because the mining companies have successfully lobbied for it not to be), and so if an individual did the same thing they would not be charged either, or alternatively it is against the law but there is corruption in the prosecutor's office that prevents them from being charged. But neither of those has anything to do with limited liability.

    79. Re:The flaw in democracy. by neyla · · Score: 1

      Sadly, it doesn't work like that.

      What typically happens is the monopolist raises prices significantly, extracting what economists call "monopoly rent". At the same time, the fact that the monopolist *could* lower prices, acts as a barrier to entry. Absent government-regulation, he'll do so selectively to bankrupt any new competition.

      If McDonald sells $10 burgers from 1000 locations, but *could* sell $5 burgers if they wanted to, what will happen is that the day you open a $5 burgershop next to one of their restaurants, McDonalds will lower the price at that particular restaurant to $4 until you're bankrupt or give up, at which point they'll put it back to $10. They've got 999 other restaurants to fund the $1/burger temporary loss, while you've got only this one restaurant, thus they'll tend to win this by virtue of having deeper pockets.

      This is illegal, offcourse. But that particular law is one example of government-regulation. My point was that *absent* government-intervention, competition will tend to disappear.

  2. America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    America is totally corrupt. How many of the current US politicians are not taking corporate handouts, accepting meetings with lobbyists, or preaching 'free market' ideology. It has to be accepted that America is a banana republic, run by a mafia of corporate interests, and a collection of crazed religious zealots. I am just so glad I don't live there.
    In a democracy, there is a choice of government. Choice is impossible in the United States, because the Republican/Democrat Party, is the only party that can attract enough campaign contributions. The Republican/Democrat Party, is consequently the only party that can buy power. This is not democracy.

    1. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 0, Troll

      America is totally corrupt. How many of the current US politicians are not taking corporate handouts, accepting meetings with lobbyists, or preaching 'free market' ideology. It has to be accepted that America is a banana republic, run by a mafia of corporate interests, and a collection of crazed religious zealots.

      And yet, millions from around the world are desperately trying to get here. Must not be that bad...

      --
      Chaos maximizes locally around me.
    2. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Millions are also trying to get into Russian....

    3. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. US is a little better than MEXICO.

    4. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't act surprised, the system forces them to.

      There is no way in hell a "honest", i.e. really and completely independent politician could get elected. The reason: Campaigning. And the cost of it. How should any politician afford it if he can't get a fund raiser going? And fund raisers by definition means that some corporations will chip in. And of course they'd expect something in return for their investment.

      Over here there was an outcry when in the 70s our back-then socialist government demanded that political parties and people should get their campaigning expenses reimbursed from tax money if they get at least (IIRC) 2% of the votes. Right now, I'm fuckin' glad they did that.

      I consider it heaps better if I buy my politicians with tax money rather than corporations do it with lobbying money.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And let's not forget how many people try to flee to China...

      There's always someone who is worse off than you. Does that mean that he should be the standard? Why take someone who's worse than you as a role model?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Countless also drown annually on the way to europe, your point?

      The fact the reality if situations hasen't reached the backyard of the third world doesn't imply that what the GP said is incorrect.

    7. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Kopiok · · Score: 1

      It always strikes me as odd that some can't realize the reality of the situation where many people are participatory in the government (ie, the House and Senate) and how many corporations can use their capital to influence these politicians. The benefit of the republic system we have is that, in theory, we can elect people who seem to represent out interests and replace them when they fall out of representing the peoples interests. It's not a perfect system, but none are, and it tends to work out at least reasonably well with the tension created by the two parties. Yes, the Republicans and Democrats both pander to their donors, but at least the tend to have different, conflicting. donors, and the odd politician that actually cares about the people.. I'm not sure where the religious zealot view comes from. As an American (and you, going by your post, are not) I can say the the idea of "crazed religous zealots" is highly overblown by the media and anyone who acts in that manner in the Senate or House are generally fringe candidates and make up the vast minority of the governmental population.

    8. Re:America is NOT a democracy by inasity_rules · · Score: 3, Informative

      America is totally corrupt...

      I'm not sure you know what that means. In fact look at any african country....

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    9. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Loki_666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, the Republicans and Democrats both pander to their donors, but at least the tend to have different, conflicting. donors,

      Really? That would be incredibly stupid of the donors. If i was in that position i would be sponsoring both sides to make sure i won. Hedge my bets kind of thing. I'm pretty sure big corporations are doing this.

    10. Re:America is NOT a democracy by next_ghost · · Score: 1

      When you're in actual Hell, even North Korea looks good to you.

    11. Re:America is NOT a democracy by wanzeo · · Score: 1

      There is no way in hell a "honest", i.e. really and completely independent politician could get elected. The reason: Campaigning. And the cost of it.

      This is a good point, but I hope the answer could be the internet. Yes, it will probably still be decades before a candidate can campaign solely via the internet and stand a chance. But imagine the day; essentially zero barrier of entry, so you get a wider selection of candidates, and no real possibility of outspending someone.

    12. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Pi1grim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is "but we're still better off than a tribe in civil-war torn African country" really passes for an argument this days?

    13. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Alex+Belits · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It makes sense for anyone living in an abused colony, to try to move to the heart of the Empire that conquered it.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    14. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

      Outspending? No. Out-shouting through astroturf campaigns? Hell yes!

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    15. Re:America is NOT a democracy by realityimpaired · · Score: 4, Funny

      I dunno. Aside from the cold of living in the northern part of the country, Norway isn't that bad.

    16. Re:America is NOT a democracy by inasity_rules · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have lived in a "Civil war torn African country." I have never lived in America, I must admit, but I have a hard time believing the level of corruption is anywhere near comparable to say, Zimbabwe. In fact I seriously doubt you understand what "total corruption" really means, until you actually experience it. I know exactly what it means. And after a long chat with my brother in America, you don't have it. Not even close.

      And btw, this is not an argument, this is abuse. You want room 12b. :)

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    17. Re:America is NOT a democracy by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      And internet celebrity endorsements.

    18. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's probably not a good idea to put your hope in a medium that can be shutdown by the government at any time they choose.

    19. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel has a similar reimbursment law (based on how many parliament members a part gets in the elections, and some contributions are still allowed), and the system is still broken.

      Specifically, the parties take loans from the banks, expecting to return the money after the elections. As parties tend to be optimistic, the money paid by the state is not as large as the loans, which results in debts to the banks. Currently, the total debt is tens of millions of US$

      The result is, as expected, that banks have a certain level of immunity from both inspection and legislation.

    20. Re:America is NOT a democracy by shentino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And you should also realize the same corporations also own the media and are going to do everything they can to keep things the way they are by smearing anyone they don't like.

      Which means that almost by definition an honest politician isn't going to even make it to the primaries before he fails the corporate kiss-ass test and squashed out of the running.

    21. Re:America is NOT a democracy by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Yes, the Republicans and Democrats both pander to their donors, but at least the tend to have different, conflicting. donors

      That's not how it works. A company will donate $200K (for example) to both candidates. If the winning candidate doesn't vote the way the company wants, then the threat is to only give $200K to the other candidate in the next election. The elected representative doesn't have to do what they want to get an advantage, they have to do what they want to get a level playing field.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    22. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And yet, millions from around the world are desperately trying to get here. Must not be that bad...

      As you say, they're desperate. If they aren't desperate or wealthy, they are probably deluded. Desperate people will aim for the first border behind which they think they can find sanctuary from persecution or a better chance at not living in misery.

      If people still believe the American dream of anyone being able to make it big, they should wake up. Any other western democracy than the US would be a better place for a poor person to get to.

    23. Re:America is NOT a democracy by gmuslera · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The corruption in Zimbabwe fucks all the world? There is a term of scale if you count how many countries are being hit by that corruption.

    24. Re:America is NOT a democracy by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      A large component of the function used to allocate donations is holding public office. That is if the Republicans hold power, most donations go to Republicans.

    25. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      America is monetocracy. Monetocracy is just like democracy except each dollar gets one vote.

    26. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't act surprised, the system forces them to.

      No, choice and ethics are what determines a person's capacity to be bribed. You want honesty in government, these days, I'd say you have to look beyond the -ahem- "two" major parties running the show.

    27. Re:America is NOT a democracy by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Look at how they tried to counter Mugabe in Zimbabwe - with peaceful protest. How far did that get them?

      The point is that it's the way the US is *heading*, and peaceful protest doesn't always work. Where it does, great, but if it always works, why do you have the 2nd Amendment?

    28. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is an inverted totalitarian state. The corruption you see as corruption is the way it operates and is therefore not corruption.

    29. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same people who gave Bush money Gave Obama and McCain money. Goldman-Sachs basically runs whole countries at this point, look at Greece for example both the president and the treasurer are ex Goldman-Sachs men.

    30. Re:America is NOT a democracy by inasity_rules · · Score: 1

      And yet(surprisingly), america is not in africa. There is a lot of worry in South Africa for example, that the same thing will happen there - some crazy dictator will take over and screw the country. What people forget is that South Africa is not Zimbabwe. And you could hardly compare America to Africa. It is a different situation and things will go down differently.

      In essence, in Zimbabwe they have Mugabe. In South Africa they have Julius Malema as their crazy potential dictator. Who've you got?

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    31. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

      Corruption is everywhere, just because you don't live in a country with conspiracies under a media spot-light does not mean you live in a utopia.

      And you're right, we're not a democracy. We're a representative republic. We leave it to the socialist and communist countries to claim that they are a democracy.

    32. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Larryish · · Score: 0

      A Moose once bit my sister...

    33. Re:America is NOT a democracy by KahabutDieDrake · · Score: 1

      We just need a new class of politician. Someone that will lie to the corporations, and work for the people.

      AHAHAHAHA... so we just need to find someone that doesn't want outrageous amounts of money and power.

    34. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "And yet, millions from around the world are desperately trying to get here. Must not be that bad..."

      That may have been true 20+ years ago, but hasn't been true for most of the last decade, and in fact I expect just the opposite will be occurring soon if it isn't already (see: recent /. summary re:Indian job fair in CA). In every country besides the USA, people are drop-jawed-amazed that anyone would put up with the crap going down there now. Sadly, it still leaks out contaminating local policies worldwide. Once again the USA has taken the lead, this time dragging the world down to it's economic cesspit & authoritarian nightmare. Thanks, guys.

    35. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You tell yourself that every day, don't you?
      Because otherwise you wouldn't believe it.

      NOBODY here wants to go there.

      Those who do, are victims of the same effect that Nigerians suffer under who want to come here:
      Once upon a time, people heard it was great here. Some moved here. It was shit, nobody got a job, life was crap, and the family was far away. But they didn't want to look like idiots. So they wrote letters about it being so great here. Which drove even more people here. And the cycle repeated. Over and over again.

      Sorry USA, you stopped being the cool country, when Bush came to power. At least with Clinton, you nearly balanced the budget and everything went upwards. Now the terrorists (mainly Cheney and his Pakistani friends) have won, as they couldn't fuck you up as much as you did yourselves.
      And don't think I would be happy about it. I'm not a dick. I want you to be happy and successful too. But guys... this way that won't work! You know what to do.

    36. Re:America is NOT a democracy by shentino · · Score: 1

      And who won't be promptly impeached by the entrenched politicians already in office.

    37. Re:America is NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But how do you know I'm not arguing in my spare time?

    38. Re:America is NOT a democracy by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I dunno. Aside from the cold of living in the northern part of the country, Norway isn't that bad.

      You mean to imply there is a not cold part of Norway?

      Surely you jest.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    39. Re:America is NOT a democracy by inasity_rules · · Score: 1

      No, but it hits southern Africa quite hard. But while America may be larger, it is certainly less corrupt. Its partial corruption may mess up the world far worse than Zimbabwe's total corruption, yes. But I think we can hardly call America "totally" corrupt. Unless OP intended a figure of speech and my lack of coffee got in the way.

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    40. Re:America is NOT a democracy by cbope · · Score: 1

      Wish I had mod points for this, incredibly insightful and correct.

    41. Re:America is NOT a democracy by VanessaE · · Score: 1

      The same medium whose primary controllers those same government folks depend on for the aforementioned campaign financing? No, the media companies need the Internet (to serve ads on, if nothing else!) and those politicians need the media companies' money too badly.

      Besides, which, the government can no more "shut down" the Internet than they could shut down every road, highway, street, etc. in the country. There are simply too many paths to get online via, and too many people who would rather not see it shut down. About the worst that our government could do to cause wide-scale damage is to fuck with DNS, and as we all know, there are ways around that, too.

      Don't forget also: Those ISPs, from the smallest to the largest, have one asset that we all know is the least likely to put up with that kind of shit: a squad of geeks to keep everything running. I doubt there are enough geeks in this country willing to assist in keeping the Internet shut down, if such a thing were even possible.

      After all of that, if worst did come to worst, we could still go back to the equivalent of the days of BBS's, long-distance dial-up access, and FidoNet until a new network is built, provided those aforementioned ISPs and media companies don't find a solution first.

    42. Re:America is NOT a democracy by mcgrew · · Score: 1
  3. This isn't news by atari2600a · · Score: 5, Informative

    The private elite have influenced western politics for at LEAST a century or three

    1. Re:This isn't news by peppepz · · Score: 2

      That's history. In my country, we moved on to the next stage: the "private elite" dumps proposals of law into the parliament verbatim. We have come to know this in one case some time ago, when someone looked at the file properties of the PDF document containing a proposed law, as posted on the official web site of the politician who was supposedly its author. They revealed that the actual author of the document was the chairman of a RIAA-like association.

    2. Re:This isn't news by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      Many of the laws passed in the US start the same way. That's the point of the article, though it is hardly new enough to constitute news.

      How else do you think multi-thousand-page bills are created? Surely, you don't think that our congressmen have the time to draft them. In our system, bills are written by lobbyists just as our regulatory agencies are managed by the industry they regulate.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  4. Insightful translation by Reality+Master+301 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In swedish, SOPA means garbage.

    1. Re:Insightful translation by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh, I thought, that was what "IKEA" means.

      --
      Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
    2. Re:Insightful translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No - IKEA means "Do-it-yourself garbage"

    3. Re:Insightful translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And ACTA means "avoid".

    4. Re:Insightful translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it might be IKEA is the future tense of garbage, SOPA the present tense sort of thing.

    5. Re:Insightful translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have more than one word for garbage.

  5. Put in simpler terms? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of my understanding SOPA would make copyright private -aka- legal, unless pursued by the big bad wolf corporations?

    1. Re:Put in simpler terms? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's like saying it makes (insert crime here) legal unless pursued by some entity who has the money to do so. Is the implication clear or do I have to write it down?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Put in simpler terms? by znerk · · Score: 1

      ... so it's only illegal if you get caught?

      --
      This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
    3. Re:Put in simpler terms? by shentino · · Score: 2

      It's only illegal if you get caught AND if the powers that be see fit to not let you get away with it.

      Stealth and selective enforcement often go together.

  6. Rule by corporation by Alain+Williams · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Over recent years there has been an accelerating plunge into rule by corporation in its interests rather than rule by government in the interests of all. This has resulted in the loosening of regulation or oversight, laws allow corporations to do things that are effectively disallowed to individuals. The results of this include: the financial woes of recent times; copyright abuse; globalisation for corporation but not individuals (think: they buy where it is cheap in the world, but stop you doing so, eg by region encoding).

    This has happened by a variety of means: bribing of law makers (whoops silly me, I mean - donations to campaigns and pet causes, promises of jobs on leaving office, ...); threats to move to another country; ...

    Don't get me wrong: not everything about corporations is bad, not all corporations are problematic. A restoration of balance is needed.

    1. Re:Rule by corporation by tramp · · Score: 1

      Rich people always have influenced law making. The only difference now is that rich corporations are interfering with the democratic system by buying a way into the law making more then one individual ever could in the past. I'm afraid the American dream is dead and the American democracy is rotten to the bones by now.

    2. Re:Rule by corporation by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...[L]aws allow corporations to do things that are effectively disallowed to individuals. The results of this include: the financial woes of recent times; copyright abuse; globalisation for corporation but not individuals (think: they buy where it is cheap in the world, but stop you doing so, eg by region encoding).

      Bingo.

      To say that treating corporations as persons is to state only half of the problem.

      The other half of the problem stems from treating corporations as a privileged class of persons.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:Rule by corporation by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Oops, I was bit too quick to click...

      ...[L]aws allow corporations to do things that are effectively disallowed to individuals. The results of this include: the financial woes of recent times; copyright abuse; globalisation for corporation but not individuals (think: they buy where it is cheap in the world, but stop you doing so, eg by region encoding).

      Bingo.

      To say that treating corporations as persons is a problem, is to state only half of the problem.

      The other half of the problem stems from treating corporations as a privileged class of persons.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    4. Re:Rule by corporation by znerk · · Score: 1

      Actually, the other half of the problem is the idea that all consumers are greedy, conniving bastards who will cheerfully steal anything from "big corporations", given half a chance, so the "big corporations" assume all of them are criminals before they've even had the opportunity to purchase a product.

      Or maybe it's a system of laws that practically guarantees that every person is a lawbreaker in some form or fashion, allowing the enforcement agencies to pick up, detain, and criminalize any person at any time, giving a supposedly valid reason for doing so.

      Oh, wait, no. The biggest problem is a governmental system based on the idea that not enough people will care enough to stop those with money from doing anything they damn well please.

      Wait, it might be that money makes the world go 'round, and 90%+ don't have enough to do anything not directly related to personal survival (if even that much).

      Hmm. These all seem to be huge problems. Where to start?

      --
      This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
    5. Re:Rule by corporation by Alex+Belits · · Score: 5, Insightful

      American dream is dead

      I would be delighted to see that happening. "American dream" is essentially an aspiration to obtain massive amount of wealth by whatever means, and use it to elevate yourself into position of control over other people (supposedly ones who implemented that dream at your expense before, or would implement it if you didn't stop them first), abusing them for your own pleasure. It is imposed on all population by propaganda, to make sociopaths in position of power seem normal.

      The problem is, this thing is still alive.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    6. Re:Rule by corporation by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 1

      There's another reason for this: The primary goal of parties is winning elections. They nowadays are so busy with self-marketing, PR and market analysis, they are more than grateful to private entities taking away the burden of lawmaking from them.

      --
      Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
    7. Re:Rule by corporation by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      News Flash: 99.99% of Americans don't have that dream, and never have.

      James Truslow Adams popularized the phrase "American Dream" in 1931:

              But there has been also the American dream, that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for every man, with opportunity for each according to his ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position.

    8. Re:Rule by corporation by jamstar7 · · Score: 2

      American dream is dead

      I would be delighted to see that happening. "American dream" is essentially an aspiration to obtain massive amount of wealth by whatever means, and use it to elevate yourself into position of control over other people (supposedly ones who implemented that dream at your expense before, or would implement it if you didn't stop them first), abusing them for your own pleasure. It is imposed on all population by propaganda, to make sociopaths in position of power seem normal.

      The problem is, this thing is still alive.

      The dream is very much alive. The realisation of the dream is just this side of impossible these days. Back in the day, when we were hunting dinosaurs from the backs of our '57 Chevies, we used to hear all the time that 'any boy can become President'. These days, they modified that to 'any boy with the proper connections and shitpiles of money can become President'. Kinda leaves us who are struggling just to make enough for groceries in the 'also-ran' category.

      The American Dream has been myth for generations, but it doesn't stop the powers that be from continually pushing it. And when you get beaten down by the system, the mythmakers just say that you were insufficiently motivated or productive in order to 'make it'. Getting fucked by the system is your own damned fault.

      Problem is, of course, it's the only game in town and the penalties for not playing it are pretty draconian.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    9. Re:Rule by corporation by Alex+Belits · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is an important propaganda point that "opportunity" to oppress others is equal or based on some kind of merit (Christianity helps with that), so everyone should just rush after it, and consider the outcome to be fair.

      Anything but refusal to participate in oppression, or God forbids, organize with other people to help each other to mitigate the consequences of oppression. That's for losers!

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    10. Re:Rule by corporation by VAElynx · · Score: 1

      More than that - why should it ever be considered stealing?
      The corporations are trying to produce as cheaply as possible, and then sell it as expensive as possible , for biggest profit margin
      The people are trying to get the product as cheaply as possible , to maximize their own utility
      The two keep each other in check, that is, until one side went off crying and called the law to its aid

      And yeah, this whole article is brilliant. There was an awesome bit in the Discworld novel "Night Watch" *i think it was that one) where Sam Vimes goes thinking about how "privilege" comes from the latin for "private law" - law set and serving to a small group of the rich and powerful- in that case it was how the houses of the nobility had watch patrol nearby, IIRC.

    11. Re:Rule by corporation by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

      That's not the American Dream, this is.

    12. Re:Rule by corporation by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      What you linked to, is a flowery justification of what I have described. It is obvious to every American that riches that "American dream" involves, can only be obtained by oppressing others. The foundation behind desire for such riches is always hostility toward others, and even "home ownership" is entirely based on the idea of hating your neighbor and trying to live as far from him as possible (a.k.a. "being independent").

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    13. Re:Rule by corporation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's also an interesting discussion of 'privatus' + 'lex' in Illuminatus!.

  7. Bread and circuses by Kristian+T. · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The answer is, that the system delivers what most of people consider to be most essential, namely: Bread and circuses. Of course this reasoning preceded the Roman Republic's transformation into the Roman Empire before it's ultimate collapse

    --
    Run with the lemmings, and you'll get your feet wet.
    1. Re:Bread and circuses by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      That's the funny part, they're not even delivering the bread and circuses anymore.

      Hulu was a classic "Circus" but now it's purposely being degraded. You've seen the economy, there's the Bread half at work.

      Now they're going straight out for the fastest track to Big Brother possible, with each new piece coming on the heels of the other, daring us to fight it. Yeah, we do, a little, so maybe we succeed in getting a particular clause removed *this year* but overall the corruption is accelerating.

      Does anyone know what Al Gore is up to? Is this the REAL cost of that fateful 2000 election? Does anyone think we'd be here if he had been President?

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    2. Re:Bread and circuses by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Does anyone know what Al Gore is up to? Is this the REAL cost of that fateful 2000 election? Does anyone think we'd be here if he had been President?

      Yes, I do.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    3. Re:Bread and circuses by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Yep. In this case the "Bread" is McDonalds Big Macs produced with hormone, antibiotic and chemical laden beef, genetically modified wheat and corn, salad covered with insecticide, pesticide, herbicide and fungicide and processed to within an inch of its life and a special sauce that's probably full of all sorts of artificial chemicals.

      And the "circuses" are cheaply made overdone reality TV shows designed to be just interesting enough for the "sheeple" to keep watching but not interesting enough to make someone switch channels during the ads.

    4. Re:Bread and circuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bread and circuses are the core of the problem in New Zealand at the moment. We've got a government that spent 1.2 billion on the rugby world cup, and projected they'd make 0.7 billion back. They promised us that we'd have an increase in employment to cover this, which turned out to be incorrect - we had a decrease in employment.

      Anyway, while all this is going on, their approval rate just rose and rose, even though they were caught doing sneaky and underhanded things, some of them are even precisely what they've accused the previous government of doing, those evil lefties that they were.

      Bread and circuses, indeed.

    5. Re:Bread and circuses by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      Are you really clueless enough to believe it matters which Establishment Party presidential candidate you choose? Have you not noticed that black Bushbama's anti-freedom, pro-elite record is every bit as impressive as that of white Bushbama?

  8. This isn't a matter of corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a matter where the people who have an interest in expanding the power of their copyrights have a lot to gain and therefore are very interested in doing so, while the benefit to the rest of us of keeping those copyright powers restricted is more limited and diffuse.

    I mean, what's it worth to you that copyrighted material enter the public domain?

    1. Re:This isn't a matter of corruption by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

      I mean, what's it worth to you that copyrighted material enter the public domain?

      Nonprofits running completely automated factories that produce everything I really need. It would happen.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  9. But it's all for your own good! by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 1

    no text

    --
    Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
  10. The State Sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've got no problem with an individual or an organization that survives by providing a good or service that I value and voluntarily pay for. That's how business is supposed to work.

    I've got a huge problem with an individual or an organization that survives by using violence or the threat of violence to take money from me, whether they're providing me some sort of good or service "in return" or not. That's how the state *always* works: a gang of thieves writ large.

    Consequently, I have no problems with private sector businesses when they act like businesses. The problem with "big business" isn't that it's big, or that's it's business. The problem is when it gets in bed with the state and uses the state's methods, rather than the market's, to further its ends. The state corrupts everything it touches; the last thing you want to do is get in bed with it.

  11. Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by Tastecicles · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...Applies to every satellite State of Britain, former and current. The specific section implies the obligation upon Law-abiding citizenry to Lawfully disobey bad Law. This is the only way in which it will get changed. If we sit there and take it up the arse every time our basic civil rights are infringed those who make black-letter Law will carry on until we are deprived of the freedom to make our own choices. That said, it is up to you: will you argue for your rights in a public forum, even if that forum consists of thirteen men and women, even if it means the total loss of liberty for an unspecified period? Will you take that argument to a wider audience, for example by way of media, considering that this action is not without personal risk? Will you risk your life for your freedom as your grandparents did and your great grandparents did (I ask as a Gen. X-er)? Or will you bend over and take it up the arse like a good little sheep?

    Lawful Rebellion doesn't mean asking permission to protest. If you have a grievance, make a peaceful and nonviolent show of obstructing a public space and broadcasting your grievance. Let the Corporate Enforcement Officers (AKA Police) make the first violent or unlawful move, and make sure you have the video camera running when they do. And when they do, the Court of Public Opinion shall judge them.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    1. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by jez9999 · · Score: 2

      Will you risk your life for your freedom as your grandparents did and your great grandparents did (I ask as a Gen. X-er)?

      The grandparents had the government and the army ON their side. To try and dislodge the oligarchy in charge of the USA, you'd have to take up arms AGAINST a military that receives half a trillion dollars per year. This makes things slightly tougher.

    2. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The older group has a better idea what Fascism looks like. Today the Nazi's could rise to power in the USA and most people wouldn't notice as long as they replaced the swastika (perhaps a cross) and praised Israel. Maybe even ditching the old disproven racial smokescreen for a class-based alternative (immigrants, lower class, trickle down etc.)

      Today's people only think a police state is what ever nation the USA doesn't like and calls a police state; they don't realize they live in one--- one with the highest incarceration rates in human history. Also the only "heroes" are pop stars and anybody who ever was in the military we don't need and which doesn't actually protect us. Forget about all the people who ACTUALLY defend our freedoms who have more courage going up against the system and the culture without weapons or combat training and oppose peer/cultural pressure which is a different kind of extreme that many people struggle every bit (or more) than a combat zone. Don't forget that the activists are directly defending freedom while the military hasn't been doing that since WW2 (only in the propaganda.) Hell, the military has known for centuries how to leverage group psychology to get people to risk their lives-- it is far more powerful that people think; I think it takes MORE COURAGE to oppose peer/cultural pressures and related systems-- like the early civil rights activists are a great example of great courage, before it became a mass movement. Being placed into survival situations with weapons and plenty of conditioning and training is not so courageous -- and just look at the awards, its usually related to luck and serving the group over one's own basic survival instincts; being more like an activist than an individualist.

      Anyhow, we look down on activists as nutcases or whatever. In Egypt they were called psychopaths simply by protesting. In the USA we have different slanders. Activists need to be properly respected for their courage; arguably, greater courage than most soldiers.

      If you are upset. good. that was my intent. now ponder it over a little.

    3. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on your exact age. Think more "1950's civil rights movement" and less WWI and II.

    4. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      Have you visited the Occupy people in various parts of the world? This is exactly what they are doing and advocating.

    5. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet the military that receives half a trillion dollars per year was having a lot of problem fighting guys (aka terrorists) that lives in a land of rocks and rubble with no high tech weapons.

    6. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      The rank and file of the military - i.e. the guys actually carrying guns - are also part of the 99%. While it's a safe bet they are loyal to the idea of America, it's rather less safe to assume they are unblinkingly loyal to the oligarchy.

    7. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I've heard that a lot, but I have to admit, I have my doubts. From what I can tell through secondhand observation (i.e. friends of mine, Army and Navy), there's some truth to the talk of indoctrination/brainwashing/whatever you want to call it. It's not quite so "America, Fuck Yeah!" that it gets painted as all the time, but there's definitely the sense that they listen to authority, and that authority is the government.

      And these guys served in the 90s. I can only imagine what it's like for someone still on active duty. Probably won't take much more than associating the uppity citizens with the likes of Wikileaks, and 99% or not, I think they'd definitely take up arms.

    8. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      Yes, I have. They're doing it right (in Nottingham, anyway) as far as Lawful Rebellion, but one thing I'll say for them here is they don't know, they don't have a fucking clue, as to what they're protesting!

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    9. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by mjwx · · Score: 1

      .Let the Corporate Enforcement Officers (AKA Police) make the first violent or unlawful move, and make sure you have the video camera running when they do. And when they do, the Court of Public Opinion shall judge them.

      Next on the 6 O'Clock news, our brave police take down an unlawful terrorist just in the nick of time. We'll have exclusive video footage of this arrest after the break. Now for a message from our sponsors.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    10. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      .Applies to every satellite State of Britain, former and current

      current yes - so long as the State of Britain continues to recognize it; former, not necessarily. For example, while the US Constitution and laws may or may not have laws similar to Magna Carta 1297 Section 61, it does not actually recognize the Magna Carta 1297 as a binding legal document for the United States of America; thus. Magna Carta 1297 can say whatever it wants but it does not apply to the United States of America - this despite that the USA can be considered a former satellite state of Britain. and several other European countries (e.g. France, Portugal, Spain,..) as represented by the various colonies and settlements (the 13 colonies, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, California, etc.).

      Please get your law right before posting.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    11. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by gilgongo · · Score: 1

      To try and dislodge the oligarchy in charge of the USA, you'd have to take up arms AGAINST a military that receives half a trillion dollars per year. This makes things slightly tougher.

      Not to hijack the thread, but isn't this essentially the argument that the NRA make for the Second Amendment? I'm not American, so feel free to put me straight, but what is their argument against the fact that if (for example) the Occupy Wall Street people start shooting congressmen, that they would last about 3 seconds in the face of even a casual counter-attack by the US military?

      --
      "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
    12. Re:Magna Carta 1297 Section 61 by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      My impressions of military sentiment are similarly second-hand, but with soldiers who served in the 2000s. Some I spoke with only faced the threat of being deployed; while others saw active combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. These folks I had a pretty uniformly dim view of both wars, and of the governmental leadership that got us into those quagmires.

      Yes, they are professional soldiers, and quite respectful of authority. It's totally unrealistic to suppose they would ever refuse a lawful order to attack a foreign country, no matter how politically stupid such an attack might be. Thank goodness, too - whatever one's politics, it's a Very Good Thing(tm) to have a military that is firmly under civilian control.

      But if you imagine a much more extreme (and one must hope unlikely) future situation, where the military is given an unconstitutional order like "attack New York City" - then I think the outcome would be far less certain.

      You may want to check out this video, for one Iraq vet's take on the NYPD's recent attack on Occupy Wall St: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY9-ARvX1VM

  12. Privatization of COPYRIGHT lawmaking ? by unity100 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    All lawmaking was privatized long ago.

  13. There's a reason pirates exist. by znerk · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Constitution of the United States of America had a nod to a limited copyright, with the idea that it would promote the arts and sciences for there to be a period of time in which the original creator of an idea would be able to profit from it. (Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution, wherein it states as a goal "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;")

    Here's an article entitled The Founding Fathers Had Copyright Right, explaining how and why copyright was first introduced (back when the U.S.A. was just a twinkle in the founding fathers' eyes). It bears little resemblance to the convoluted and draconian system we now have in place.

    As of 1790, that "limited time" was a period of 14 years, with a possible 14 year extension (assuming the author was still alive), for a possible maximum of 28 years from date of creation. Those periods were more than double those originally specified in earlier documents, which ranged from 5 to 7 years.

    More recently, the Copyright Term Extension Act has shoved everything in quite the wrong direction for anything to ever reach the public domain.

    For example:

    Mickey Mouse was created in 1928. Mickey Mouse's likeness will not be legal to reproduce without a license until 2036, or maybe even 2047 (there is some legalistic ambiguity). And that's assuming that the copyright laws are not changed yet again to suit corporate greed... Because, you know, Disney hasn't had enough time to properly profit from Mickey Mouse yet, since he's only 83 years old!

    If that example isn't broken enough for you, have a look at this list of when things enter the public domain, and note that the current copyright law ensures that a book published on 15 March 1923 will enter the public domain on 1 January 2019, despite nearly everyone who was alive when it was published being dead now - nevermind 7 more years. It also shows that a sound recording published in 1978 will enter the public domain no earlier than 2049. If it was recorded prior to 1972, then it won't become public domain until at least 2067. This literally means that music recorded before I was born will not be in the public domain before I die. I expect this holds true for most of us, actually, and not just me. As an aside, this is also why restaurants do not sing "Happy Birthday" with the lyrics and melody you learned growing up.

    --
    This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
    1. Re:There's a reason pirates exist. by poity · · Score: 2

      Great post, but largely irrelevant to the issue here. How much of the current torrent traffic is used for sharing content created before 1997 (2011 minus 14 years)? From a quick glance at the front pages of the torrent sites listed on torrentfreak, closer to zero in percentage. Fixing copyright to favor consumers is a good thing, but that doesn't address the issue of people downloading the newest bluray the same day it is released, which is largely what these companies are after. I have no problem with them going after these pirates.

      Supporters of consumer-friendly copyright don't have to align themselves with pirates in order to further their cause, in fact it hurts their cause.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    2. Re:There's a reason pirates exist. by dissy · · Score: 1

      How much of the current torrent traffic is used for sharing content created before 1997 (2011 minus 14 years)?

      Who cares? The content industry wishes to abuse ALL of copyright law, and in response the people* of this country decided to grant no one ANY copyright law.
      (* Or most of the people, most being the key word. You can use the same stats from TPB you already looked up to prove that)

      It does suck the content producers from yesterday have so fucked over the content producers from today, but this is exactly what happens, and they were told as such.

      At this point, there is NO reason not to pirate a zero-day movie. We have exactly zero trust that they will fulfill the payment for the cost of their copyright term, and most content producers have always and continue to outright state publically that they have no intent to pay the price of copyright.

      If you once borrow money from me, and never pay it back, do you honestly expect me or anyone else to trust you with a loan ever again? A copyright grant comes with a price, and that price is your work enters the public domain after the term.
      This is NOT happening, no payment has been made, and we have no reason to think it will be paid for in the future. This loan program deal is now off.
      That is why zero day movies are pirated along with everything else.

  14. It's a Ruse by shawnhcorey · · Score: 1

    Copyright law is not about protecting copyright. It's about creating monopolies. Current copyright holders want the ability to take down sites of their competition. All this talk about protecting copyright is just a ruse to get lawmakers to pass their laws.

    --
    Don't stop where the ink does.
  15. we'll be following italy by aenigmainc · · Score: 2

    Italy put a media mogul in charge of the country and look what happened to them. We are basically doing the same thing here in the US. by allowing corporations to write our laws we are going down the path of italy. i fully expect the US to implode within my lifetime.

    1. Re:we'll be following italy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I fully intend to move away before it happens.

  16. take there passport away by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    And put a GPS on them.

    1. Re:take there passport away by geekmux · · Score: 1

      And put a GPS on them.

      Yeah, because THAT technology is foolproof...

  17. Cui bono? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The OP's statement:

    "They will disrupt sites that do not infringe a copyright, interfere with fair uses of copyrighted works, and take other steps that evade the limits that the Copyright Act sets on a copyright owner's actual rights..."

    made me think. One of the threats to someone/entities hoping to make money from copyrighted material is competition from free material. I almost no longer pay for music, for example. Yes, I may want to hear Turkish Freakout, but I can find a lot of similar material for free with a 3 minute search on the internet.

    The is led to the following: it is to the benefit of the class of copyright holders to disrupt ANY dissemination of ANY entertainment content except that which they are getting paid for.

    1. Re:Cui bono? by VAElynx · · Score: 0

      Cui bono?
      Sonny Bono!

      Sorry, couldn't resist.

  18. Canada is also NOT a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...or else how would you explain a 39.62% of popular vote allows you rule with absolute majority?

  19. Because elections are decided by the stupid. by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Seriously. About 45 % of our population are part of the left wing that would appose this (cause it's bad for freedom and such). Another 45% are part of the right wing that support this stuff (cause of property rights and such). That last 10% have no strong opinions whatsoever, they just vote for the guy with the best hair. We call them "Swing Voters". That's why the question "Who would you rather have a beer with" decides the election. Our trouble is elections are being decided by people that vote on "gut feeling" instead of matters of public policy.

    I think Gene Wilder said it best: "You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Because elections are decided by the stupid. by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are a perfect example why there can be no change. A "Swing Voter" is a voter that actually looks at the candidates and their platform. The problem is that the 10% of voters can't out vote the 90% of voters that are going to vote for the team with their favorite colored jerseys.

      The media has convinced people that if they don't pick a team and vote for that team no matter what the team does, they must be stupid. The newspeak has worked, and it has worked on you specifically.

  20. Broken contract between elector and elected by AxeTheMax · · Score: 1

    No, it has to do with most current representations of democracy. The elected representatives do not act in the best interest of the electors, they can and very often will be be corrupted by monied interests. Now, if any elected representative was elected on a contract, that they could be tried by his / her electors at any time after the election, even if retired, and punished if it was found their actions were not in the elector's best interest, that might help. Perhaps with a shooting squad in the background and an occasional execution to give it teeth.

  21. The Privatization of Copyright Lawmaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real problem is politicians are complete sucker fish and so are the American people who elect them.
    Whores are embarrassed to be seen with either of them.

  22. No, the flaw is simpler and you don't get it by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    The economy is a race with no end. Therefore in a race to cut costs, you are NEVER finished. And how much can you cut costs without loosing service OR doing something drastic.

    When one company outsources to get a lower price, to continue in the race everyone else must as well and then who is left locally to afford the product even at the lower costs? Yet many people happily claim you can outsource everything and then the low low low price means people locally don't need jobs. Apparently they believe that the price of a product can truly reach zero. Notice I use price. Not cost. The cost of a iPad is NOT 500 dollars. Yet that is the price, for a piece of tech that doesn't touch US soil until it is in a store being sold to someone with already enough debt.

    Americans don't believe so much in the Free Market, they believe that you can cut the cost of anything and get keeping the same quality. In a way, they are like a French noble who tells himself to eat cake after being un-employed for years. (and it works, as ashamed as I am to admit I saw a program on TLC where a woman shopped for a weeks worth of food and payed just 1 penny... you know the economy is screwed up when this can happen, somebody else is paying for this leeches food and guess what, it is you)

    The real problem is the media (who in the case of the woman never question how this is supposed to work long term). The entire media is made up by the very rich telling the poor how to think. And the poor swallow it whole. Just look at the followings of Steve Jobs or Bono. Tax dodgers and shady dealers they have the guts to tell others how to think. Why do we care if a few artists living in tax shelters getting money from dictators might loose a few pennies? But without it art would be dead. Yes, if nobody was payed for art anymore the whole of humanity would seize to create it... for THOUSANDS of years this wasn't the case but now it would be. And who is to question this falsehood? The overpayed artists in the media? HAH!

    We have left the media become the sole speaker for our society and put them in control of the very rich by making them very rich. It is the job of the media to question the politicians. They do, they question why not more is being done to make them both richer over the backs of people and we let them do it.

    When you shoot a politician make sure you get the guy interviewing him at the same time. It is the only way to clean up the system. Of course, you will be villified by the media. Go ahead, try and make the claim that art does NOT need heavy cash infusions to survive.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  23. Nice fix by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    So your solution to the worlds issues is to put the blame on factions within a larger group. Why don't you just blame it all on the jews (faction within the judaic faiths) and get it over with.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Nice fix by Pence128 · · Score: 2

      It's like someone seeing a bunch of westboro baptist churchers and thinking "man, americans are a bunch of bigoted fuckwits." Get it?

      --
      404: sig not found.
  24. It is the way to apathy by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Believing one man can do nothing leads to one man not doing anything. There are 360 million or so Americans. If all them donated 10 bucks to the EFF per years that would fund the EFF with 3.6 BILLION dollars per year. That hires a LOT of people and most of us van afford more then 10 bucks.

    So... how much have you donated?

    But your one tenner donation won't make a difference right? So you don't do anything.

    People can do a LOT. Vote with your dollars. Don't buy Apple, don't buy Walmart, don't buy from Amazon. But they are so cheap? yes because they don't pay taxes so your state is even more in need of trying to pursuade them with even bigger tax cuts so they can at least get a few of the jobs.

    You can't fight the revolution with shinies and discounts. But it is so much easier to just say "I can't do anything" and not do anything.

    Trust me... I did pay a small amount to the EFF but hey, that was just a tiny fraction of my income to buy of my guilt. It is so easy being a sheep. BAAAAAH

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:It is the way to apathy by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      Most people don't even know what the EFF is.
      You would have to take the time to tell them, probably 3-12 times over the course of at least a year in order to get their attention.
      Then it has to be a worthy enough proposition that they will actually donate.
      THEN try to get them to all agree that the EFF is the one they actually want to donate to, not some new foundation that split off from the EFF due to "ideological differences (read: they figured they could get more money)... and you have a pickle of a situation.

      Finally, your 360 million Americans? Yeah, chop about 1/5 of them out of there who are minors and probably don't even have enough money to donate. It's still a lot of money at $10.

      --
      -
  25. Incorporating for fun and profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other words we who don't own a "..., ltd" front-end company through which we would interact with world are second-rate citizens from the very start. I wonder how such system could be perverted against itself for purpose of subversion, in spirit of GPL and Pastafarianism?

    1. Re:Incorporating for fun and profit by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      In other words we who don't own a "..., ltd" front-end company through which we would interact with world are second-rate citizens from the very start. I wonder how such system could be perverted against itself for purpose of subversion, in spirit of GPL and Pastafarianism?

      DEVO and The Church of the SubGenius are good places to start.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  26. Misperception..? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And i think the news poster is under the misconception that misperception is a word...

    1. Re:Misperception..? by neminem · · Score: 1

      Perception is a noun formed from a verb. "Mis-" is a prefix that can be attached to such nouns. Therefore, while it may not be a *morpheme*, it is definitely a word. (It may also not be the word the poster was *going* for... but it's still a word. And one that makes equal sense - "perceiving, incorrectly".)

  27. Corporations are protected by the First Amendment. by mangu · · Score: 1

    Congress shall make no law ... prohibiting ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble

    A corporation is the assembly of a number of people, called "shareholders", who have a certain common interest. The rights of a corporation are the rights of its owners.

    Corporations are treated as persons in some respects because they have duties and obligations. If corporations didn't have those characteristics how would you enforce contracts? Who would you sue when you bought a car with a defective design?

    Corporations have so much political strength not because they are rich, but because they really care about the issues they lobby for and against. For a media corporation, for instance, a certain detail about copyright law could mean the difference between profit or bankruptcy, for you it means paying a few bucks more to watch a film or listen to a song.

    The only way to reduce the power corporations have in politics is to deregulate as much as possible. The more you regulate everything the more power you give to corporations

  28. Legal authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I personally do not recognize any corporate authorities. No DCMA orders or cease and desist, etc. etc. If it comes from anything other than a Bonified court order, issued by a bonified seated judge, then it does not exist.

    And at the end of the day, I dont care if the final result is legal or not.

  29. Use it against them by PatentMagus · · Score: 1

    Laws get changed when the right people (corporations) scream loudly enough. If you really believe that 'big corporations' can send out false DMCA takedown notices without a meaningful penalty, then the solution is simple. Send them your own. If the penalty is all that light then it won't bother you. This is obviously not legal advice, a recommendation, or a call to action.

    --
    I am a lawyer, but not yours. Anything I tell you might be a total lie intended to benefit my clients at your expense.
  30. Next, up, Letters of Marque... by soup · · Score: 1

    Hmmmm...

    Privatizing brings in Privateers carrying Letters of Marque (unless someone patents the process) to enforce rules or even laws...

    (shakes head)

    --
    -soup (GNUrd, Speaker to Machines) "Laugh at yourself- Why should everyone else have all the fun?" -Romanchek's 6th Ru
  31. Re:Corporations are protected by the First Amendme by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    Corporations have so much political strength not because they are rich, but because they really care about the issues they lobby for and against.

    Bullshit, do you think an auto mechanic could get an appointment with his US Senator? A CEO can, because his corporation has funded the politician. Your vote is pretty meaningless, the corporate dollars to buy that vote are what matter.

    As to regulation, there can be too much, too little, or just bad regulating. Cowtowing to corporate interests and writing regs that help them screw you and their competetion over is bad regulation.

    Do you have any idea how much you'd pay for electricity if the power companies weren't regulated? In a monopolistic industry, heavy regulation is necessary.

    The recent financial meltdown was a result of deregulation (Glass-Stegall repealed). The problem is when an industry writes its own regs, like Hollywood writing copyright law (or Wall Street getting Glass-Stegal repealed).

  32. Re:which Establishment Party candidate by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    I'm not being clueless, I'm doing the best with my limited options.

    I'd bet a fair day's pay that Al Gore wouldn't have made QUITE this mess out of the Terrorist meme. He didn't have Daddy's history of Iraq, and I think he'd have gotten the right *country* sooner than a *decade*. (Pakistan ??!!!) (Notice all it all hushed up pretty good since then?)

    I'll admit I didn't expect Obama to be this fast on the RIAA scene, but did we really want Sarah Palin anywhere near the White House? It was a total flashback to the Quayle jokes, and McCain is no spring chicken.

    So it's not great but there is a choice between Utter Disaster and Oh Dear Gawd.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  33. Re:Corporations are protected by the First Amendme by Jstlook · · Score: 1

    I realize I'm in the minority here, but I guarantee you I know half a dozen auto mechanics that have been, and will always be able to get appointments with their US Senator. Admittedly, I live in Alaska, and Ralph Seekins was a senator here. He also owns the Ford dealership in town.

    Nitpicking aside, if you *can't* get an appointment with your Senator, you have a problem. Try it - go down to their office and request an appointment. Their whole job is to speak on your behalf. Of course, you could try emailing them as well - you'll probably get a canned response (heck, even showing up in person you'll likely get a canned response, but you could always ask for the basis of that response). Seriously, just because it's canned doesn't mean it's artificial -- it's likely just an often-answered question.

    --
    ---jstlook ---For that is the way of Elves, for they say both yes AND no, and mean every word of it. --- J.R.R.T.
  34. Re:Corporations are protected by the First Amendme by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    I wrote the late President Nixon, was replied to by some general who simply thanked me for my service to my country (I was in the Air Force then). I Wrote the late Senator Simon and got a polite, noncommital reply that he disagreed with my position. The only politicians who have really answered any mail are state legislators and city government officials.

    But I guarantee you that if you drop $100k in any politician's re-election coffers, you'll have far more than mere "access".

  35. Re:Corporations are protected by the First Amendme by mangu · · Score: 1

    do you think an auto mechanic could get an appointment with his US Senator?

    Absolutely, yes! You would get one if you tried. If you were to arrive at your senator's office in Washington and there were a lobbyist there with a check for $10k who do you think your senator would see first? You.

    All marketeers know that word of mouth is the best advertisement. Imagine you were choosing a new car to buy, would you trust more the advertisements or the opinion of someone you knew who had one? Your senator knows that any voter who is motivated enough to travel all the way to DC to meet him is an active member of his community and will bring more votes than a lot of advertising.

    The recent financial meltdown was a result of deregulation (Glass-Stegall repealed).

    No, it was a result of regulations to avoid discrimination by banks against people living in low-income neighborhoods. In a free market the junk mortgage bubble would have never happened.

    The problem is when an industry writes its own regs

    Which is always. When there's a commission in Congress to write a regulation, are you there? No, because you do not have time to be in Washington all the time. Lobbyists are paid to be there.

    Your argument about advertising isn't true, because people do not sell their votes to advertisers like that. You don't sell your vote, why do you think other people would? But regulations are a different matter.

    It's not a question of buying votes, the trick is to be there when the details are written into the regulation. No matter who is elected, the people in Congress have too many issues to know intimately every detail. When it comes to cross the t's and dot the i's there will be a corporation lobbyist there to "help".

    And the more regulations there are, the more "help" your congressman will need.