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Canada CRTC Rules Against Usage Based Billing

iONiUM writes "In a somewhat surprising end to the ongoing fight between large ISPs (a duopoly in Canada), and independent ISPs, the CRTC has ruled in favor of the small ISPs. This means that independent ISPs can continue to have unlimited plans offered to customers. From the article: 'Under the CRTC’s new capacity-based approach, large telephone and cable companies will sell wholesale bandwidth to independent ISPs on a monthly basis. Independent ISPs will have to determine in advance the amount they need to serve their retail customers and then manage network capacity until they are able to purchase more. Alternatively, large companies can continue to charge independent ISPs a flat monthly fee for wholesale access, regardless of how much bandwidth their customers use. Both billing options give independent ISPs the ability to design service plans and charge their own customers as they see fit.' Score one for the citizens."

31 of 117 comments (clear)

  1. Duopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, there are certainly more than two major Internet providers in Canada.

    Shaw, Telus, Rogers, Bell, Cogeco, MTS, etc.

    That said, good decision.

    1. Re:Duopoly? by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 4, Informative

      In any given area, there's one company that owns the phone lines (say, Bell) and one other company that owns the cable lines (say, Rogers). That's it. Any Internet access you can get runs over their last mile lines or is horribly expensive and/or slow (satellite, wireless).

    2. Re:Duopoly? by realityimpaired · · Score: 4, Informative

      How many of those ISPs have overlapping service areas?

      Shaw, Rogers, Cogeco, and Videotron have divvied up the territories for cable service, and don't overlap service areas.
      Similarly, Telus, Bell, MTS, and Aliant have divvied up the territories for landline service, and also don't overlap service areas.

      It's only in the mobile telephone area that there's overlap between companies like Bell/Telus, and even that isn't *real* overlap, as they're sharing each others' towers.

      So yeah. For Internet service, there is a duopoly. You're either buying cable service from one of the cable companies, or you're buying landline phone service from one of the phone companies, and the only way to choose which cable/phone company it is is to move to a different part of the country.

    3. Re:Duopoly? by BobNET · · Score: 5, Informative

      Spell TekSavvy right and link to it so others can bask in its awesomeness!

    4. Re:Duopoly? by Warren416 · · Score: 2

      I hate bell. I hate rogers. This is good news for everybody but the people at Bell and Rogers who enjoy screwing over their customers. W

    5. Re:Duopoly? by penguinstorm · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not going to change the fact that in virtually every market *except Toronto* you're buying your connection from your phone company or your cable company directly. Toronto seems to be the only city with the critical mass and regulatory structure to allow third party providers to survive and flourish. It hasn't happened here in Vancouver.

      --
      Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
    6. Re:Duopoly? by mirix · · Score: 2

      This. I really wish they would split it up... one company is responsible for the last mile, and that's all they do. Just the physical medium. It can be municipally owned, whatever.

      Then let whoever wants in hook up at the central office. That way we'd get some real competition, which just isn't happening here. Too much conflict of interest when the line owners are also the service providers.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    7. Re:Duopoly? by Maow · · Score: 5, Informative

      allow third party providers to survive and flourish. It hasn't happened here in Vancouver.

      I'm in Vancouver, and *enjoying* my first Shaw-free month with TekSavvy as ISP over Shaw's cable lines (I own my cable modem).

      They're certainly worth checking out, if for no other reason than $30 / month is what a 7.5 Mbps connection is actually worth.

      Note, at 17:25 on a tuesday afternoon I'm getting SpeedTest.net score of 30ms ping, 19.24 Mbps download, and, 0.48 Mbps upload speeds.

      Shaw is, of course, still making money on the last mile, but a lot less than when I used them directly.

      TL;DR: it's up to *us* to make the 3rd parties flourish: change ISPs today.

    8. Re:Duopoly? by penguinstorm · · Score: 2

      Not really though. The cost of bandwidth is somewhat arbitrary, in the way that the price of automotive fuel is arbitrary: that is, there are real hard costs associated with it but they're not the major input and the price is driven quite a bit more by demand (which in both of these cases has proven to be extremely elastic) and not as much by inputs.

      It doesn't cost my cable company $40 more per household in equipment to provide service to my home, which is already plumbed for cable. They didn't even have to come in to install it. Despite this, the price for "normal high speed internet" has remained at about $40 a month since my first installation, some 10 or 12 years ago.

      The inputs don't nearly equate to the costs they're asking and the number of gigabytes I pull per month has nothing to do with how much pipe they have to lay, except inasmuch as they want to provide a certain *quality* or service to a give number of customers and so avoid saturating a pipe.

      --
      Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
    9. Re:Duopoly? by Maow · · Score: 2

      You get 2.5 times your advertised down speed at night or am I reading that wrong?

      Correct, though possibly temporary.

      It seems that my "Up to 7.5 Mbps" is more of an "at least 7.5 Mbps".

      I was surprised by the numbers posted, retested and got very similar numbers.

      This neighbourhood appears to be a couple blocks from Shaw Cable's trunk lines for Vancouver, where there are multiple 1-2 inch diameter "pipes" strung to the telephone poles, and 100 Mbps is available, so that might be one reason.

      Just testing again, at 01h48 and... WOW, sustained over 30 Mbps download, though final score was 20.47 Mbps, nearly 3 times the advertised "up-to" rate. I'm shocked.

      I wonder how SpeedTest.net calculates their speed score, as my most-recent test dipped under 20 Mbps only briefly.

      http://www.speedtest.net/result/1594919457.png

      Go TekSavvy(, with kudos to Shaw's infrastructure)!

  2. If I'm not mistaken.... by mark-t · · Score: 5, Informative
    ... there's absolutely nothing in this ruling that actually prohibits UBB... it only prohibits charging more than the amount that was agreed to. Simply put, once a customer has used up the bandwidth that they've paid for in a money, they will have to go and buy more.

    It cuts out the suprise bills at the end when you find out just how much bandwidth you really used last month, but it doesn't really stop ISP's from charging consumers based on how much bandwidth they actually use, or, more specifically, they intend to use.

    1. Re:If I'm not mistaken.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This ruling has no direct impact on consumer billing

      Isn't the impact that the large ISPs can't interfere with the consumer billing choices of resellers?

    2. Re:If I'm not mistaken.... by penguinstorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're not expecting the CRTC to have a thorough, comprehensive technical understanding of the industry they're regulating, are you? Seriously: let me know how that works out for you.

      Frankly, Usage Based Billing is a secondary concern to Net Neutrality. Every internet service provider in Canada was built on a monopoly granted to them by the Government of the day (literally or in essence) to provide services that can *now* be replaced by online IP based services. They all have a vested interest in retaining those monopolies and the additional bills you incur as a result.

      I get my connection from the *only* cable provider in the mega-city I live in. They could easily start throttling streaming video and impede the technical growth of 1.7 million people.

      The CRTC seems like not much more than a cabal run by the large telecoms these days. They're supposed to be an advocate FOR CANADIANS not for the businesses. When they start doing that, I'll have hope.

      --
      Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
    3. Re:If I'm not mistaken.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is not about whether a Canadian ISP can bill you, as a consumer, according to how much you use. They can and they do.

      This ruling is about whether a large ISP (such as Bell), that controls the network itself, can force its own pricing plans onto smaller ISPs that have to lease bandwidth on lines controlled by the big guys. The answer is now no, they cannot do so; the small ISPs are free to create their own plans for their own customers.

  3. teksavvy going under by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    see this :
    http://teksavvynews.ca/index.php
    Chatham, Ontario, November 15, 2011 â" TekSavvy Solutions Inc. (âoeTekSavvyâ), one of Canadaâ(TM)s leading independent internet service providers, is disappointed with the rates for the wholesale high-speed services that the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (âoeCRTCâ) approved today. The rates are for services that Internet service providers need to purchase from the large telephone and cable companies, such as Bell and Rogers, in order to provide Internet access services to their own retail customers.

    In Telecom Regulatory Policies CRTC 2011-703 and 2011-704 issued today the CRTC implemented new rate structures and rates for wholesale services.

    TekSavvy is pleased with the rate structure adopted, but the actual rates will increase the cost of Internet for Canadian consumers.

    âoeThe CRTC decision is a step back for consumers. The rates approved by the Commission today will make it much harder for independent ISPs to competeâ, said Marc Gaudrault, TekSavvyâ(TM)s CEO. âoeThis is an unfortunate development for telecommunications competition in Canadaâ, he added.

    -30-

  4. Usage based billing is efficient by Ichijo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Usage-based billing with variable pricing is actually the most efficient way to charge for a limited resource. Under the "all you can eat" flat rate model, the most economical amount of capacity is not where there is no network saturation ever, but where the cost to your users of the inconvenience of network saturation equals the cost of adding capacity. That means a little network congestion is actually a good thing in this pricing model.

    Under the "usage-based billing with variable pricing" model, there are neither heavy periods nor light periods, but expensive periods and inexpensive periods. It gives people the freedom and ability to economize by scheduling their heavy downloads for the cheap periods to save money.

    If something is in less demand during certain times of the day, why shouldn't the seller charge less during those times? This is why restaurants offer lunch and happy hour specials.

    Aren't freedom and the ability to economize good things?

    --
    Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    1. Re:Usage based billing is efficient by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except bandwidth isn't a limited resource, which is what they're charging for. UBB is the easy and cheap way to stall back network upgrades and ding consumers hard in the pocketbook at the same time. In Ontario, independents with their own DSLAMS and cable plants can offer 200-300gb caps and competitive, or better service than the big incumbents can. This tells me that either these organizations have serious fiscal problems in operations, they're so inept that they can't figure out what needs to be upgraded, or there is no problem with bandwidth, and they're just out to screw everyone they can, because they're in a duopoloy, monopoly or super-monopoly position.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Usage based billing is efficient by wwbbs · · Score: 2

      UBB is great when you do not have artificial limits imposed by the people that control the internet backbone and the last mile; that only have that monopoly as it was subsidized by the tax payers in return for ongoing service. While I agree that companies should be able to make a profit but what appears to have happened is some bean counter got a bright idea that people should pay more now per byte than they did even five years ago. I blame the mobile market for jacking up the rates bell figured we can charge $100/Gig for Mobile internet why the hell can we not make more on the broadband connections. If your bill for 20 Gigabytes of data transfer was $200 instead of $20 Would you care? What about $2000 for 200Gigabytes?

    3. Re:Usage based billing is efficient by Ichijo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      bandwidth isn't a limited resource

      If bandwidth were a free good, then it would be in such abundance that everybody would have all they could ever want and nobody would ever have to pay anybody for it. Clearly, that isn't the case.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    4. Re:Usage based billing is efficient by Grieviant · · Score: 2

      Just one small difference between theory and practice - UBB as envisioned by the Canadian telcos was never intended to be efficient, it was intended to make them more money without any further investment in the infrastructure. Do you really think they're going to concede anything on the low end of the bandwidth usage spectrum, for example by offering old-granny-1GB-per-month a $10 plan? Not a chance in hell. It's a means to punish people for actually using their connections for all those great things they're advertised for (gaming, video and music streaming, large downloads), foisted onto the consumer under the guise of 'fairness'.

    5. Re:Usage based billing is efficient by harryjohnston · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since the hardware determines the bandwidth, I don't see your point. (Are you confusing bandwidth with data?)

    6. Re:Usage based billing is efficient by inhuman_4 · · Score: 2

      bandwidth isn't a limited resource

      If bandwidth were a free good, then it would be in such abundance that everybody would have all they could ever want and nobody would ever have to pay anybody for it. Clearly, that isn't the case.

      There are two units of measure that are often conflated. One is the number of packets (P), the other is the transmission rate, packets per second (P/s). Packets (P) are a free good (sort-of they do cost electricity) my computer can generate as many packets as I please at no cost. The bandwidth (P/s) however is a limit resource, to get more you have to pay more. So it makes sense to charge for bandwidth (P/s), but charging for packets (P) doesn't make sense. It's not like your router can only handle so many packets then has to be replaced. UBB is an indirect way of limiting bandwidth (P/s) by limiting packets (P).

      In a free market system with strong competition UBB is a much better system for multiple reasons. Unfortunately in North America the market is mostly duopolies or monopolies and market effects which make UBB work breakdown.

      Since ISPs make money selling more bandwidth than they buy based on the assumption that not everyone will use their bandwidth 24/7. Caps on (P) prevent statistical outliers (24/7 bandwidth use people) from screwing up this business model since no money is made on people who max out their connection. I think most people agree this is reasonable. (Note: some companies claim 'unlimited' but in fact do have caps; they are scum).

      UBB is good because is makes people set their own caps (P) based on how much they are willing to spend. Which just like the outliers indirectly limits bandwidth (P/s). This is good because it allows ISP to give out high bandwidth (P/s) knowing that people will set their own limits, making the system more economical and efficient for eveyone.

      The problem with UBB is that it discourages ISPs from increasing the bandwidth (P/s) they can handle. Since UBB rations (P) and not (P/s) users will not increase (P) because it will cost them too much. This is where the free market steps in as everyone will want to be with the company with the lowest price per (P). This competition will force companies to lower their cost per (P). Since the cost is now lower customers will use more (P) forcing companies to increase network capacity (P/s) to accommodate.

      Since most ISPs in North America are a monopoly there is no reason for ISPs to ever decrease the price for (P) or invest in the network (P/s). Accommodating new users is done by increasing the price since (P) is a limited resource. Increasing the price causes people to ration (P) more but the company makes more money on the same network (P/s). The networks capacity (P/s) determines how much (P) the ISPs have and they auction it off at the highest point the market will bear. They can justify an increase in costs if there is more demand for a "limited" resource (P), ie. "we are running out of internet".

      In our current system ISPs must make money by adding new users, since arbitrarily increasing the price of (P/s) would be an abuse of monopoly power and the government would step in. This is down by lowering the costs of (P/s) so more people will sign on. New users must be accommodated with more bandwidth (P/s) on the network since reducing the bandwidth (P/s) or cap (P) of existing users is again an abuse of monopoly power and the government will step in. This forces network upgrades, and eventually causes ISP to offer better services.

      Really the problem is not UBB, but the lack of a free market in ISPs in North America. UBB is a solution that doesn't address the problem and will only make things worse.

  5. Canadian broadband is still crap by Grieviant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sure, score a small point for not letting Bell and Rogers increase the abuse, but our wired broadband status quo is still terrible. High prices, low monthly caps (60GB typical) with massive overage fees, absurd asymmetry between D/L and U/L rates (10 Mbps down / 0.5 Mbps up typical), unmitigated throttling any time the provider feels like it (apparently 65-85% of the time), 'unintentional' throttling of gaming, etc. Aside from the low caps, you can't even get around any of this by going with one of the smaller ISPs since AFAIK the leased lines are subject to the same 'traffic management' policies.

    The service is pretty shitty also - video buffering on a 25Mbps D/L connection, ping to the west coast randomly spiking up to 400ms, problems that 5 calls to tech support over the period of a month and one modem replacement failed to resolve. The tech support guys and technicians all but admit that it's a policy issue rather than anything they can fix.

    1. Re:Canadian broadband is still crap by DeathFromSomewhere · · Score: 2

      Currently posting from Edmonton using 250 down / 15 up / unlimited data. Sucks to be you bro, but you shouldn't say all of Canada has crap broadband just because you do.

      --
      -1 overrated isn't the same thing as "I disagree".
    2. Re:Canadian broadband is still crap by DeathFromSomewhere · · Score: 2

      2 hours north of Edmonton is the middle of nowhere. Living out in the bushes has its pros and cons, like anywhere else.

      --
      -1 overrated isn't the same thing as "I disagree".
  6. Re:Good news by koan · · Score: 2

    I've found when I take that attitude it leads to in-action on my part, then eventually I get whittled down to caring for nothing.
    It's a frustrating when the people making the rules either know nothing about the Internet (most judges) or that they are motivated by little more than greed RIAA, MPAA, could it really hurt to voice approval of sensible behavior?

    I know it hurts our position to give up by assuming we are done for.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  7. Michael Geist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
  8. 14.6GiB per $ by harryjohnston · · Score: 3, Informative

    If I've done my math right, then for Bell-based customers this works out as roughly 14.6GiB per dollar, or seven cents per gigabyte, assuming the network is always congested. The actual cost depends on the peak to off-peak traffic ratio and on how much congestion is considered acceptable, but this provides a minimum.

    Folks who want, say, 5Mbs free-and-clear (no congestion and no data cap) would be paying Bell $110.65 per month plus a $14.11 access fee. That's more than I'd prefer to pay myself, but it isn't out of reach.

    However, it isn't clear to me exactly what this is buying. I suspect it doesn't include actual internet connectivity, but is just what the retail ISP is paying for Bell to get the traffic from the customer to the ISP. So you need to add the ISPs internal costs, profit margin, any applicable taxes, and whatever wholesale internet rates the ISP pays. I strongly suspect that by the time you've added all this up, 5Mbs free-and-clear is still going to be too expensive for most people.

    1. Re:14.6GiB per $ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not really since even the ISPs with unlimited plans still oversell their back-haul capacity. Very very few people run their connection at 100% 24/7.

  9. Incorrect by GreenEnvy22 · · Score: 2

    I believe you are wrong there. It says for their wholesale customers, they are allowed to bill based on connection speed, but not total monthly bandwidth usage. This means a small ISP would pay for a 100Mbit link, or 2 Gbit link, etc... It is billed in 100Mbit increments. ISP can use as much as they want, but they will only get that amount per second they paid for. This makes sense to me, you pay for the size of the pipe you need, doesn't matter how much data you put through the pipe.

  10. Re:Happily using TekSavvy by Maow · · Score: 3, Informative

    Unfortunately their CRM software could not catch you on the way out with a special promotion

    I don't understand.

    Rogers' customer retention tried to keep my mobile business, but I just hated them far too much.

    Shaw didn't try retention deal and I wanted to be rid of them anyway. Had they matched TekSavvy's deal, I'd still not have stayed since Shaw would likely have continued to up the price every few months.

    Unfortunately, TekSavvy screwed up my order, which I didn't find out about until connection day.

    Fortunately, Wind includes unlimited internet for my $40 / month, so I tethered with them until TekSavvy waived their $50 connection fee (and, double bonus, the first month's fee too!).

    All in all, I feel good about who I do business with now, and how rare is *that*?