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$50,000 To Solve the Most Complicated Puzzle Ever

An anonymous reader writes "A team from UC San Diego is using crowd-sourcing as a tool to solve the most complicated puzzle ever attempted, which involves piecing together roughly 10,000 pieces of different documents that have been shredded. (The challenge is designed to reveal new techniques for reconstructing destroyed documents, which are often confiscated by troops in war zones). The prize for solving this jigsaw puzzle is $50,000, which the UCSD team has decided to share among the people who participate. If they win, you would also receive cash for every person you recruit to the effort! The professor leading the team, Manuel Cebrian, won the challenge two years ago, so his odds of winning again are great"

43 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. only 50k for a problem that complex? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    only 50k for a problem that complex? If you could solve this problem, I say copyright and make millions off of the algorithm.

    1. Re:only 50k for a problem that complex? by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

      Copyright is irrelevant, this is a patent situation. And if the technique (in this case crowdsourcing) is obvious and pre-existing then you can't patent it.

      This solution is a bit of a hack - it's not what the $50,000 is actually meant for, they're looking for an everyday computer-based method. Fair play to them and all though.

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    2. Re:only 50k for a problem that complex? by Yaur · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is exactly the same. This is just a team attempting to solve that challenge by crowd sourcing document assembly.

    3. Re:only 50k for a problem that complex? by Fluffeh · · Score: 2

      Copyrighting an algorithm is almost impossible, depending on which national legal jurisdiction you're in. And patenting could be expensive

      Oh yes, we developed this lovely little algorithm, we want to patent it. Can someone spot us $50k to pay for patent bills?

      Hey, maybe that's where you could use that $50k in prize money?

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    4. Re:only 50k for a problem that complex? by gumbi+west · · Score: 2

      The US Government does not get a free ride when it comes to patents. They may disregard a patent for national security purposes. For example, when the antrhrax attacks were underway the maker of the patented first line drug did not have sufficient quantities of the drug and the USG basically said, "then make them or we will do it for you and not give you a licensing fee." They did not do this, but that is the type of situation where they can override a patent, not like, "hey, nice shiny thing... I'll just take that then."

    5. Re:only 50k for a problem that complex? by Relayman · · Score: 2

      You've got the method, now implement it. My understanding is that you are provided with TIFF files of the scans. However, there may be smudges and oil from the shredder.

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  2. Doesn't scale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The rules should require that the same method that solved the initial puzzle be successfully applied to 10 more shredded documents, to weed out methods that don't scale.

    1. Re:Doesn't scale by Surt · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why 10 and not 4?

      (I ask, because the contest requires 4 progressively harder documents be solved, with a declaration attached that says this is explicitly to filter out any methods that won't scale).

      --
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  3. 10,000 documents for $50,000 reward? by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 4, Funny

    If there is an offline version of this, it involves a garbage bag full of shredded 5$ bills and some scotch tape.

    1. Re:10,000 documents for $50,000 reward? by zill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For those who didn't get the reference.

  4. Shredding vs. burning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I never really understood the purpose of shredding documents. If your documents are that sensitive, why not just burn them, leaving no trace of legible text? It seems like it would be cheaper, easier and faster too. Just throw them in a barrel outside, put a little lighter fluid in, and drop a match. Why is this not common?

    1. Re:Shredding vs. burning by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 2

      Really, you could do both. And you should use a setup similar to a cremation device instead.

    2. Re:Shredding vs. burning by arth1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I never really understood the purpose of shredding documents. If your documents are that sensitive, why not just burn them, leaving no trace of legible text? It seems like it would be cheaper, easier and faster too.

      What happens is that the top and botom pages and edges get scorched, but the middle part with the print remains largely intact.

      Just throw them in a barrel outside, put a little lighter fluid in, and drop a match. Why is this not common?

      Thus speaks someone who hasn't tried to burn more than a couple of sheets of paper.
      It takes time to burn more than a few pages at a time. Or an extremely hot fire. Sorry, Mr Bradbury, 451 F won't do it, unless you can wait for weeks.

    3. Re:Shredding vs. burning by GumphMaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Indeed that is what became of classified material I have dealt with. Shredded using a military cross-cut shedder (output pieces smaller than 1x10mm), mixed thoroughly, and then incinerated using a purpose built belt-fed, gas fired machine.

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    4. Re:Shredding vs. burning by DRJlaw · · Score: 4, Informative

      I never really understood the purpose of shredding documents. If your documents are that sensitive, why not just burn them, leaving no trace of legible text? It seems like it would be cheaper, easier and faster too. Just throw them in a barrel outside, put a little lighter fluid in, and drop a match. Why is this not common?

      1. Burning is inconvenient for small volumes of paper.
      2. Burning is essentially illegal for large volumes of paper (business scale; Clean Air Act permits).
      3. Fireplaces are not as common as they used to be; outdoor burning is illegal in most cities.
      4. People can be idiots when using fire outside of a fireplace or permanent fire pit.
      5. DIOXIN!

      Shredding is like a residential door lock -- good enough to discourage a casual person who is too curious for their own good. Secure commercial shredders rely upon sheer volume and decent mixing (300 "particles" per page x 3 tons of paper dumped at a recycler is a decent level of obscurity) or "hydro-pulping" for the demanding (shred then pulp at paper mill -- good luck reassembling the fibers even if you get to them before bleaching).

    5. Re:Shredding vs. burning by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      Indeed that is what became of classified material I have dealt with. Shredded using a military cross-cut shedder (output pieces smaller than 1x10mm), mixed thoroughly, and then incinerated using a purpose built belt-fed, gas fired machine.

      I bought a cheap home shredder about a year ago, and it crosscuts. Makes reassembly unimaginably more difficult. (I think mine produces more like 2mm wide, but still.)

      And if you don't have an incinerator, just pour the crosscut confetti into a recycle bin where all your other documents go. If you think reassembling one document would be difficult, consider starting from a bucket where the scraps of dozens or hundreds of documents are mixed indiscriminately.

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    6. Re:Shredding vs. burning by dakohli · · Score: 2

      Indeed that is what became of classified material I have dealt with. Shredded using a military cross-cut shedder (output pieces smaller than 1x10mm), mixed thoroughly, and then incinerated using a purpose built belt-fed, gas fired machine.

      Actually, a quick check of online regs states that the maximum size must be 1mm x 5mm. When you use an approved shredder, the pieces are very small, producing thousands of bits per page. The magnitude of this challenge is huge.

      In some cases the challenge will be to determine just which side is up. If the document was double sided, then the order of difficulty will increase greatly.

    7. Re:Shredding vs. burning by fatphil · · Score: 2

      Better - pulp them into bricks that can be used as logs for a fire and burnt at your leisure in your weekend cottage. Paper burns slowly in bulk - turn that into a feature.

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  5. Why are the documents shredded to begin with? by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't the warlords have access to fire? I'm pretty sure that brings about a thoroughly unrecoverable destruction of the documents...

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    1. Re:Why are the documents shredded to begin with? by arth1 · · Score: 2

      Impractical: I am pretty sure that most offices where this would actually be used have rules against lighting fires indoors.

      And rules like that are so important to follow when the enemy is at the gates. Make sure you wipe your feet too, so they won't come to a dirty floor.

    2. Re:Why are the documents shredded to begin with? by mollymoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      I burn my old bank statements etc. and it's actually pretty time consuming and labour intensive to completely burn anything more than a few sheets. Just throwing a stack of papers on a fire doesn't work - the middle pages don't burn and are completely legible. Even when burnt, undisturbed paper ash still has legible text on it. You need to do a lot of stirring and separating of sheets to ensure complete destruction. It's much more time consuming than shredding.

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    3. Re:Why are the documents shredded to begin with? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 3, Funny

      >>Don't worry, the next contest will involve a $75,000 prize to reverse entropy

      I hear students from UCSD have already summoned a demon to solve this puzzle.

      Name's Maxwell, something like that...

    4. Re:Why are the documents shredded to begin with? by Trevorm7 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or just run it through an HP printer, the process of trying to rip it out after it jams should do the trick.

  6. Re:To be shared? Shared with who... by fsckmnky · · Score: 2

    $5 million is closer to the actual effort required to solve the problem, at least for the software, and personally, as a software engineer, I believe the problem to be solvable. Maybe tack on a few more million(s) if you want reliable hardware to scan in the shreds with minimal human effort.

    That said, the whole "Hey guys, we're having a contest!" strategy has paid off in the past, the X-prize and Lindburgs flight being prime examples. Hell, Googles "Summer of Code" seems to work out for them nicely. They get a cheap, motivated, enthusiastic labor force.

    Being older, wiser, and less motivated, when I hear "contest" I immediately think "I'm busy already, do it yourself."

  7. Fifty cents a person by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    To complete this new challenge, it could take as many as 100,000 people

    So, it's essentially worth less than a pack of gum.

    1. Re:Fifty cents a person by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hey, it's a month's wage in some poor countries, start building a document rebuilding plant somewhere in backwater Africa.

      Sorry to mix actual data in your First World prejudices, but the GDP per capita of the poorest country is over $300, so monthly it would be around US 18$.

      There are only 15 countries with a GDP per capita inferior to 100$ month

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    2. Re:Fifty cents a person by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hey, it's a month's wage in some poor countries, start building a document rebuilding plant somewhere in backwater Africa.

      Sorry to mix actual data in your First World prejudices, but the GDP per capita of the poorest country is over $300, so monthly it would be around US 18$.

      There are only 15 countries with a GDP per capita inferior to 100$ month

      Right, because income is evenly distributed there, and there aren't dirt poor people living off almost nothing. Plus, you're using PPP GDP per capita, rather than GDP per capita at nominal exchange rates. If I pay someone in another country $1, they get to buy what $1 buys in their country, not what $1 buys in the USA.

      Sorry to mix actual facts into your misrepresented data.

  8. SHHH!! by jensend · · Score: 4, Funny

    Everyone in the civilized world is worried about what will happen if terrorists gain access to this technology. That's why most nations have signed the Fire Non-Proliferation Treaty, and it's why the International Combustive Energy Agency is working round-the-clock to keep this technology from falling into the wrong hands (while somehow also promoting civilian use of combustive energy).

    You've got to be a lot more careful about talking about such restricted technology and its possible uses.

    1. Re:SHHH!! by jensend · · Score: 4, Funny

      See also United States v. Prometheus for more about the penalties for divulging such classified information.

    2. Re:SHHH!! by a+whoabot · · Score: 2

      Eternal aquiline palinauxohepatectomy (eagle-based[aquiline] removal [ectomy] of a regrowing[palinauxo-] liver[hepat-]).

  9. Re:Call me paranoid by interval1066 · · Score: 2

    How dare you question the wisdom of the Homeland Security Act.

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  10. Confused? by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is it just me or does this make little to no sense.
    You cannot scale putting together puzzle pieces because the same person needs to both see two pieces that go together and recognize that they match.
    So yes more people help, but if there are 10 million pieces then the average person would have to look at over 1 million pieces before they have even seen two that go together.

    And this seems like a very easy thing to computise.
    You digitize the shredded documents.
    You run a program that looks for similarities around the edges.
    You stick likely candidates together and either ask for human confirmation or run a text recognition algorithm to see if the result makes sense.

    Now this becomes harder if the direct edge of many of the shredded parts are blank, but still more then doable if you use spacing recognition(calc how big a space is in this document and look for the correspond amount of missing space on the other side), line up the text rows, and some basic word statistic (if you see "he ...", for example you are likely looking for a "T" on the right side of another strip).

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    1. Re:Confused? by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      If it were so easy to computise, why haven't you done it yet and taken the prize?

      My guess it's not that easy. And that it also doesn't have to do with computing horsepower as such.

      Then about the text recognition and analyses: don't forget that there are more languages than just English. As a matter of fact most people in this world use a language other than English in their daily life. I for one use four languages, of which three daily and the fourth at least weekly. And English is my second language. You can not just assume the document you try to piece back together is written in English, you can't even assume it's written in Latin script, or that it is text to begin with: it may be drawings or maps.

    2. Re:Confused? by Nemyst · · Score: 2

      I'm fairly sure this problem is NP-complete, which makes it anything BUT trivial to compute. It might be easy to represent computationally, but to actually calculate the result is extremely hard. In fact, finding an efficient algorithm for it would make you incredibly rich and possibly dead.

    3. Re:Confused? by Intropy · · Score: 2

      If you allow for multiple possible pairs of edge mappings the problem is not just not solvable in polynomial time, it is not solvable at all. because multiple arrangements can match, and despite not being described formally, the goal is pretty obviously to find "the" solution and not "a" solution.

    4. Re:Confused? by Intropy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For N items, there are N! ways to arrange them. That doesn't make sorting an N! problem.

  11. Anyone else... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

    ...remember the days when /. had actual editors that could catch related or duplicate summaries and either tie them together or throw them out? No? Me either.

  12. Occupy Wall Street by robow · · Score: 2

    Just another example of college kids not getting paid enough for their skills. A puzzle solver fresh out of college should be making three times that at least.

  13. Re:Call me paranoid by Raiford · · Score: 2

    Hardly of any concern for a citizenry that post everything about themselves on facebook.

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  14. Huh... complex problem!? by c0lo · · Score: 4, Interesting
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  15. Statistics Fail by MSTCrow5429 · · Score: 2

    "The professor leading the team, Manuel Cebrian, won the challenge two years ago, so his odds of winning again are great[.]"

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  16. Re:Call me paranoid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because spying on *US citizens* is the worst thing they could ever do.

    First, obviously we non-US citizens just deserve to spied on. But that is not the purpose of the $50k challenge.

    This is for captured documents after *invading* nations (namely, after killing the goverment workers and entering their buildings). This is not *defending* the Fath^H^H^H^HHomeland. It is for offensive warfare on foreign soil.

    And "saving lives" in the article means obviously saving *US lives* (the lives of us proto-humans dwelling on the rest of the planet never counts anyway).

  17. Problem already solved by zazzel · · Score: 3, Informative

    As far as I know, German Fraunhofer Institute has a solution for this kind of problem: http://www.ipk.fraunhofer.de/component/content/category/167-autsicherheitstechnikstasischnipsel (p.8ff, German language).

    Looks like they have few problems assembling torn pages, and geometrically correct results for shredded paper (yet not necessarily correct content).