Giant Chinese Desert Mystery Structure Solved

Velcroman1 writes "Slashdotters read Monday about strange symbols in the Gobi Desert recently imaged and indexed by Google Maps. Alien landing zones? Some military thingy? Bizarre art project? Nope. The grids of zigzagging white lines seen in two of the images — the strangest of the various desert structures — are spy satellite calibration targets, according to one NASA scientist."

Comments

spy satellite calibration targets

[ackthpt]

So... they correspond to something on the ground they want to match, I betcha. They may have added a few lines to mask their intent, but the drawings to the west look like airfieds and I imagine the two which look like random stuff in a rectangle do match some city roads, somewhere.

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[CmdrPony]

No, they don't match any other places. They're just for calibration. US has similar ones in Arizona.

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[n5vb]

No, they don't match any other places. They're just for calibration. US has similar ones in Arizona.

And Texas. (Although that one was a NASA photogrammetry calibration target, I think..)

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[MozeeToby]

They're just using it as a controlled environment to test out some new radar based spy satellites and possibly to test countermeasures against similar satellites orbited by other nations. The quasi-random grid layouts are the most visually striking, but I think the fighter jet surrounded by carefully positioned radar reflectors is more interesting. In theory you could mess up the image enough to camouflage your planes from satellite based radar. I could imagine the same being true for some of the qausi-grid layouts as well, they could be testing for multi-path effects or any number of other things.

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[Anonymous Coward]

Luecke is used for calibration, but it was not originally intended for that.
IIRC it was done due to a land dispute with the state.

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[amicusNYCL]

So... they correspond to something on the ground they want to match, I betcha.

I betcha not. I betcha they send the satellite up with an image of what to look for on the ground and where to find it, the satellite heads above it, and then orients itself until the view on the ground matches the image. The purpose is for the satellite to calibrate its own position and orientation in space. Once that's done then they can just tell the damn thing where to go to look at whatever the hell they want to look at.

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[larry bagina]

Inflatable tanks were used in WW II. Of course, they also camouflage to hide their real tanks.

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[hairyfeet]

Nope just use Google images to check out the AZ desert and White sands in NV and you'll see similar targets like bullseyes and zig zag and all kinds of other targets. It is simply a cheap and easy way to calibrate a spy sat since all you need is a piece of desert and some white paint. IIRC there are also some bombers and fighters left in the middle of the desert in NV near an abandoned runway that is used for practicing taking shots of aircraft on the ground, its easy practice since its always in the same place and same position so it is easy to compare.

If anything to me the interesting part is how much more poor the resolution on the Chinese sats are to the Americans since the Chinese targets are fricking huge and the bullseyes they have in AZ go down to some pretty tiny center targets. I'm sure in another decade though they'll have it tight enough they'll be able to read the license on a car, they'll just need a GUI in VB like the CSI guys.

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[tlhIngan]

If anything to me the interesting part is how much more poor the resolution on the Chinese sats are to the Americans since the Chinese targets are fricking huge and the bullseyes they have in AZ go down to some pretty tiny center targets. I'm sure in another decade though they'll have it tight enough they'll be able to read the license on a car, they'll just need a GUI in VB like the CSI guys.

The actual resolution of a spy satellite is classified. The use of smaller and smaller targets gives away the resolution of the satellite you're using it with. The fact that the targets have been getting smaller and smaller (and it's measurable) just means that they can ballpark the resolution easier.

The Chinese "huge targets" doesn't reveal a thing about the quality of their optics. It could be (as assumed) extremely bad. Or it could be extremely good and they're now focusing on parts of the design. Hell, the other test targets around the world are known - the Chinese could simply be targeting using those targets as well, and using these to throw everyone off.

Part of the role of a good spy is providing disinformation, after all.

Re:spy satellite calibration targets

[jmac_the_man]

If anything to me the interesting part is how much more poor the resolution on the Chinese sats are to the Americans since the Chinese targets are fricking huge and the bullseyes they have in AZ go down to some pretty tiny center targets. I'm sure in another decade though they'll have it tight enough they'll be able to read the license on a car, they'll just need a GUI in VB like the CSI guys.

Confirmation bias. The targets you see are only the ones big enough to be seen clearly on Google Maps. If we (or the Chinese or the Russains or whoever) had a spy satellite that could read the year off a quarter, the quarter would just be placed in the correct place and they'd take pictures of it. The fact that you can't see the quarter on Google Maps because GOOGLE doesn't have that kind of resolution doesn't mean nobody does.

Why Needed?

[wisnoskij]

And why would these be needed. There are already many structures easily visible form space and static, so why not just use one of those?

Re:Why Needed?

[dido]

Well, from reading the article, I gather that it's because they might have needed something bigger because the resolution on their spy satellites is not that good. FTFA: "The calibration targets are larger than might have been expected, he said, suggesting that the satellite cameras they are being used to calibrate have surprisingly poor ground resolution."

Re:Why Needed?

[demonbug]

And why would these be needed. There are already many structures easily visible form space and static, so why not just use one of those?

Lots of reasons for purpose-built ones. You know exact dimensions, they can be made any size/shape/color/material necessary to test the specifics of your imaging system, and they are presumably placed in the desert because there is rarely cloud cover - so good availability. Trying to use various existing objects/places presents all sorts of additional variables that they may wish to avoid.

Re:Why Needed?

[X0563511]

Because you have corps that build things that need exorcise too? Might as well have one big project with multiple uses.

Logistics guys get practice... logisticing?
Engineer guys get practice building.
Sat guys get free calibration and practice doing their stuff.
Bombardiers and other munitions guys get practice shooting at it.
Intel guys get practice doing damage assessments.
R&D probably gets a chance to test a bunch of stuff, too.

The list goes on. The question is "why not?"

Painted roads and buildings

[BitZtream]

The 'structures' are lines painted on the ground used for target practice.

Its a documented bomb range with an airport and a simulated airport to bomb as well.

If you bother to zoom out on Google Maps you can figure it out fairly quickly, oh and a few Google searchs will reveal that we've known this for years.

Indian government, take note

[sonamchauhan]

Free satellite calibration provided over China

Re:Bombs..

[BitZtream]

Yes, they drop bombs there.

Its a bombing range. Used to practice bomb drops by the Chinese military.

Re:Bombs..

[demonbug]

Doesn't explain why some of the structures have heavy bomb damage.

Assuming no foreign power has been bombing China- I can't fathom why China would bomb their own calibration units.

(unless it was to test what would happen- before an enemy did it to them)

Could just be for training in photo/radar interpretation for damage assessment, etc. Seems reasonable to set up a few "known" scenarios so you can train the people (or software) that will be dealing with the actual intelligence product. Probably helpful to see the results of a few known explosions when you are trying to determine how big a bomb France dropped on Libya that one time (actually, France didn't drop any ordnance on Libya; they merely surrendered it from altitude).

I am not fooled.

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Thats what they want you to think. No one can stop me from imagining the most paranoid delusional scenario. It is a free country and I have the freedom to be fearful of future, gays, the 99% hippies, the mexicans. I will not be pacified, I will not be ameliorated, I will not be persuaded from using words like ameliorated, It is my time, It is my mind, and I'm gonna blow it on the most trivial stuff.

Re:Bombs..

[Jarik C-Bol]

you never repurposed anything? Perhaps the area once was a bomb range (cold war era perhaps) and they have repurposed these vast tracts of government owned land into satellite calibration areas. Hell, look at this:
http://g.co/maps/39mhb
That is near where i live. On google earth it looks like an air base mockup. from the ground, you can't even see the thing. That *was* an air base about 50 years ago. Now its a few foundations and a crumbling runway. Things look a lot different from above.