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Debt Reduction Super Committee Fails To Agree
Hugh Pickens writes "VOA reports that the latest effort to cut the U.S. government's debt apparently has ended in failure as leaders of the special 12-member debt reduction committee plan to announce that they failed in their mandate from lawmakers to trim the federal debt by $1.2 trillion over the next decade. Democrats and Republicans blame each other for the collapse of the effort. 'Our Democratic friends were never able to do the entitlement reforms,' said Republican Senator Jon Kyl. 'They weren't going to do anything without raising taxes.' Democratic Senator Patty Murray, one of the committee's co-chairs, says that the Republicans' position on taxes was the sticking point. 'The wealthiest Americans who earn over a million a year have to share too. And that line in the sand, we haven't seen Republicans willing to cross yet,' Now in the absence of an agreement, $1.2 trillion in across-the-board spending cuts to domestic and defense programs are set to take effect starting in January, 2013, and the lack of a deal will deprive President Barack Obama of a vehicle for extending a payroll tax cut and insurance benefits for unemployed Americans, which expire at the end of the year." (Though the official deadline for the committee's hoped-for plan is tomorrow — the 23d — they were to have provided it for review 48 hours prior.)
Jesus really?
These aholes should just compromise. Raise taxes and cut spending. Do both. You can't agree? Well then why not fix the problem quickly by agreeing to these two points that would solve the problem in a hurry? Sure, I am not an economist, but I bet my understanding of solving the debt problem is just about as good as a senator or congressman who spends his time raising money all day, rather than trying to figure out this country's problems.
(yes I could be very wrong, and i look forward to more intelligent replies below, but at least i have proposed a solution right there! much better than 90% of our leaders....)
I say we all get together and agree to not re-elect a single member of Congress. We could clear the entire House next year and a decent chunk of the Senate. I don't care if the new members are democrats, republicans, blue, green, red, or purple, it just seems like the entrenched politics is completely broken.
It's too bad we can't figure out a way to just throw them into jail.
----- obSig
The problem is: there *are* no cuts. The so-called cuts are reductions in planned increases. Government spending continues to go up - just less than it otherwise might have. This is not success.
Anyway, the amount they were supposed to cut was a joke. They were supposed to trim 1.2 trillion over 10 years. That's 120 billion per year. But again - not off the current spending, but off of planned increases. The result would still have been a net increase.
Idiots re-arranging the deck furniture on the Titanic. It would be entertaining if it weren't so frustrating.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
I surprised everyone is fooled by this. The solution to the problem at hand is obvious... Cuts in both military spending as well as social programs, and ending the Bush tax cuts... in fact, we probably need even more than that. But how can the republicans raise taxes and cut military spending and then go home and get re-elected? How can democrats cut social spending and not invent some new "screw the rich" tax? It would require a diabolical plan... pass a law that says if a special committee cant agree on a plan, all these things happen... Then find people to be on the committee that are all as far left and right as possible so that, not only will they not agree, but their respective electorate will praise them for not making a deal with those evil republicans/democrats. Taxes go up, spending goes down, everyone can blame everyone else... It's perfect! The only problem? Even this wasn't enough. We're still doomed.
Completely taking tax increases off the table is stupid and shortsighted.
I'm not sure if you can lay it all on Norquist, but he's clearly the most powerful proponent of the stupidest, most obstructive Republicans in the budget mess. Norquist, the 96.5% of the Republicans in congress (238 of 242 House, 41 of 47 Senate) who signed his pledge, and every single Republican candidate won't do anything that raises taxes by a single dollar.
And check out this:
In a debate in August, Republican presidential candidates were asked whether they would support a budget deal that bundled $10 of spending cuts for every $1 of tax increases. All said no. They rejected any deal that involved raising taxes.
So they hate raising taxes. We get it. These assholes still can't accept a proposal that goes in their favor 11 to 1? They reject it out of hand before even talking about what the spending cuts would be? Are they joking?!??!?
Who the fuck supports a platform, for a major party in a democratic republic, that says: "We get every single thing we want and you get nothing you want. If you don't comply, we'll watch it all burn until you give it."
That's not debate. That's not governing. It's fucking economic terrorism; it's taking hostage of 295 million people to satisfy your ideological hard-on.
...seriously people?
F*** what I wouldn't give for the Clinton years again. Smart president, likes a little scandal, smart Republican congress, keeping each other in balance with COMPROMISE and working together. Ignoring that whole ridiculous impeachment thing (personally, I'm happier when the President is known to be getting some.)
Now? Well meaning, if weak (first term-itis), President, diametrically opposed Republican Congress who are caught between a rock and a hard place trying to embrace the Tea Party while ignoring its ridiculous 'no compromise' policies.
I remember when I first heard about the tea-party, it sounded good. People wanting common sense and a return to 'founding father' kinds of ways. Then it became popular and got hijacked by the whack jobs. The founding fathers espoused compromise and working together - the tea party? Hell no, "My way or the highway" is more their tune.
Government meant to operate in balance cannot operate when one part of the government simply will not work with the others.
Do I want my taxes to go up? F*** no. Should they go up to solve debt problems in addition to cutting spending? Of course. Make corporations making over 10 million dollars actually pay taxes? What a crazy idea...
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And in the end, the taxes get raised, but the spending never actually gets cut, and so the Government just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
Actually spending went down during the Clinton years as percentage of GDP, which is the metric that matters. The last time before that when spending went down was during the Kennedy/Johnson administration.
You should note that there is no a priori "right" level of expenditures. You can choose to create a Haiti still level of government services in which case 10% of GDP in government expenditures would be too high, or you can create a cradle-to-grave, free education, free health care, safe streets, government backed pensions, system like in Sweden, and if you can provide that for 30% of GDP you are getting the deal of the century.
So rather than asking for more or less government spending, how about asking for efficient government programs for a change?
You wrote:
" In fact they tend (on average) a higher percentage "
Citation needed.
In fact, the very wealthy pay a far lower percentage on their money earned that you do. Warren Buffet himself has stated that his secretary, who probably earns a $60,000 to $80,000 per year salary, pays a higher percentage of her income as taxes than he does, and most people cannot even fathom what Buffet makes per year (hint: more than a billion).
While YOU are paying taxes (probably automatically deducted from your paycheck), you're likely having 25% to 30% of your pay going into taxes.
The rich have most of their income coming not from "working" (i.e., payroll), their income is coming from the stock market, where their money is making money for them. These are "capital gains", which are taxed at 15% -- let me repeat that in case you missed it -- at least 10% lower or maybe as much as half of what YOU are taxed at.
And that assumes that they are being completely honest with their incomes. Most of the wealthy have complicated accounting, offshore accounts, tax havens, and other grey-area dodges/loopholes that allow many of them to come in well under the 15% tax rate.
Anyone who assumes that the Rich are paying their fair share is either naive, or woefully misinformed.
Exxon Mobile for example, paid ZERO corporate taxes last year, in fact, they were GIVEN money by the government in the form of energy subsidies. General Electric also paid ZERO corporate taxes. This is while they are laying off thousands and raking in record profits.
Please find me an example of any wealthy individual or corporate entity that pays as much in taxes by percentage as the rest of us do.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
With campaigns running 1.5 years, elections are now ALWAYS around the corner.
The Democrats keep offering more and more cuts but get nothing back from the Republicans.
We need both revenue increases and spending cuts.
The Republicans, and the Tea Party radicals specifically, are the problem.
Blar.
Yes they were. The vast majority of those kinds of signs that showed up at the rallies were clearly labeled as being from the LaRouchians, who, having little in common with the TPers, sought to capitalize on the exposure the rallies were getting for their own goals.
As for what you linked to - yeah, that person screwed up. Though personally I was not aware that chimpanzee/monkey could be considered a racial insult; more of a general insult about competency or perhaps being a show trick controlled by someone else.
Y'know, like all those signs that had Bush morphed into a chimp.
I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
Awwwww.... does the concept of context escape you? Pobrecito... Let me lay it out for you - chimp is both an English language word describing a type of monkey, AND a racial slur. Which is implied is determined by the situation and surrounding language, a process known as "context." An extremely simple example - If I were to say "Your mom," the meaning would be radically different if you had said "Who do you think should make the cake for my birthday," or "Man, I'd like to bang-"
Except this is what the Republicans are actually saying:
Republicans: We need to increase spending on the military and cut everything else and we need to cut taxes on the rich.
The Republicans are actually preparing a bill which will cancel the automatic military cuts, and they were willing to raise taxes on the middle class in exchange for tax cuts for the rich. They seem to have little real interest in balancing the budget.
Why doesn't anyone recongnize that if you took every penny from the top 1% we'd still be completely screwed because we spend way too much .
Because that's not actually true. The richest Americans have about $1 trillion in cash reserves and American corporations have about $1.5 trillion in cash reserves. That's money that's not doing anything other than earning interest. There's an interesting argument to be made that that money is being kept out of the economy because taxes on the rich and corporations are actually too low.
Wealth is being concentrated in the hands of the wealthiest Americans. The top 400 have about as much wealth as the bottom 50%. This means that the rewards of society are overwhelming going to the richest Americans, which probably means they aren't paying as much as they should in taxes. After all you'd expect the people profiting from the status quo to pay to maintain it, right?
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Just read the two statements in the summary. Nothing else is necessary.
Republican: "Our Democratic friends were never able to do the entitlement reforms. They weren't going to do anything without raising taxes."
Democrat: "The wealthiest Americans who earn over a million a year have to share too. And that line in the sand, we haven't seen Republicans willing to cross yet."
I mean, one of those is clearly a bald-faced misrepresentation: this is made clear within the statement itself. In the first sentence he flatly claims that Democrats would not "do the entitlement reforms". In the very next sentence he makes it clear that this is simply a lie: Democrats were entirely ready to do entitlement reforms, but on the condition that they were accompanied by tax increases. You know, compromise. That thing two sides who don't agree are supposed to do for the greater good.
The Democrat, by contrast, simply states that the Republicans would not agree to anything that included tax rises - whatever entitlement cuts were involved.
I just don't see where's the room for interpretation or greyness there. From their own statements it's quite clear that the Republicans are a) fundamentally dishonest and b) utterly unwilling to compromise.
> No one in the US has had slaves in a LOOONG time.
Really? Slavery ended, let's say, in 1865. A child born into slavery in 1855 may have had a child in 1900, who may have had a child in 1945.
There are people alive today who personally knew former slaves.
There are people alive today who personally experienced the Jim Crow south.
There are people alive today who, because of their skin color, were unable to serve in the military as anything but kitchen staff. Prohibited from playing professional sports. Denied entry into their church's priesthood.
It's nice to think it's all past history, but I'm sorry to inform you that there are still too many open wounds to call the problem eradicated.
We might be able to move on sooner by healing the wounds than by ignoring them and letting them fester.