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Baker Has to Make 102,000 Cupcakes For Grouponers

Rachel Brown, owner of the small Need a Cake bakery, became a victim of the old adage, "Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it." More than 8,500 people took Rachel up on her Groupon offer of a 75% discount on a dozen cupcakes, forcing her to make over 100,000 cupcakes to fill all the orders. In the end Brown lost almost $20k. "We take pride in making cakes of exceptional quality but I had to bring in agency staff on top of my usual staff, who had nowhere near the same skills. I was very worried about standards dropping and hated the thought of letting anybody down. My poor staff were having to slog away at all hours — one of them even came in at 3 a.m. because she couldn't sleep for worry," she told The Telegraph. "We are still working to make up the lost money and will not be doing this again."

26 of 611 comments (clear)

  1. The Law of Unintended Consequences... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The 'Law of Unintended Consequences' strikes again!

    75% off is a seriously deep discount, what did she expect would happen?

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't think they understood what could happen when the passed that law.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    2. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nowhere in TFA does it actually say she lost $20k, and in fact the article is from The Telegraph and the business is based in London, so all currency in TFA is in pounds. In fact it says she lost between £2.50 and £3 per batch, which means she lost between £21,250 and £25,500, which would mean she lost close to $40k. More relevant to your comment, she lost £2.50 and £3 per batch selling at £6.50, so it costs her a little over £9 to make a dozen cupcakes which she normally sells for £26, so yes, she has some healthy margins, although not totally unreasonable for food products where you have an awful lot of waste (anything you don't sell by the end of the day is trash). Though I also don't really understand who the hell pays £26 for a dozen cupcakes.

    3. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by TVDinner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I owned a mall-based cookie/cafe store and also a pretzel store. Margins on meal normally run 3x-4x the cost of ingredients to account for labor, electricity, waste, etc. that the poster stated above. But the margin on bakery goods depends on the holding time of the good. The longer the item lasts, the lower the margin needed. On the cookies we sold, the holding time was 3-4 hours and the margin was around 6x-7x. For pretzels, the holding time was 30 minutes and the margins are around 30x-40x. That pretzel you buy at the mall is SERIOUSLY cheap to make, but you throw them out ALL the time because they get stale so quickly. My favorite item to sell was bottled water. Lasted basically forever and and I made 10x margin on it; even better than my fountain drinks. And believe me, it's true when they say most of the profits a store makes is between Thanksgiving and Christmas. the busy season at the mall really helps because you crank out goods and your not throwing stale items away like you do during a normal period.

    4. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by poetmatt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      so basically, she made a completely moronic business decision, but the article's slant is that it is the fault of groupon? Is this woman not aware she could have set these at a price that would have been reasonable as opposed to bankrupting?

    5. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by Local+ID10T · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've used Groupon for my business.

      The idea is to consider it a marketing expense -you are paying for customer eyeballs (our estimate was we were exposed to 400,000 customers who had never heard of us before), not expecting to make a profit on the items that the Groupon customers buy.. but you don't want to actually LOSE money on any sales.

      --
      "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    6. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by Rary · · Score: 5, Insightful

      so basically, she made a completely moronic business decision, but the article's slant is that it is the fault of groupon? Is this woman not aware she could have set these at a price that would have been reasonable as opposed to bankrupting?

      From TFA:

      Mrs Brown, who had only expected a few hundred orders, said that the experience was “without doubt, the worst ever business decision I have made”.

      Sounds like she's well aware that she made a bad business decision. What the article doesn't clearly state is what options Groupon provided her in terms of prices she could offer or limitations on the number of groupons sold. At the end of the article, a Groupon representative says that there was no limit placed on the number sold, and that "(w)e approach each business with a tailored, individual approach based on the prior history of similar deals." This doesn't really tell us much, but it is entirely possible that Groupon sold Mrs. Brown on the idea by providing her with unrealistic expectations based on "prior history of similar deals".

      It's also possible that she isn't actually blaming Groupon at all. The article makes that claim, but the quotes from Mrs. Brown only talk about her own underestimation of the response to the deal.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    7. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by LordKronos · · Score: 5, Informative

      The fault of GroupOn is an inability to set limits in the number of coupons issued....If GroupOn allowed a limit to the number of coupons, say 2,500 then she many not have needed the extra employees and not suffered the losses from it.

      You are absolutely right....except for that fact that you are absolutely wrong. Groupon DOES allow limits. I know I've intended to buy a groupon before but waited before purchasing, and when I later came back, the deal was over BEFORE the expiration because it reached the max quantity. Don't believe me? How about from the Groupon CEO himself:

      http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/09/17/businessinsider-groupon-ceo-posies-2010-9.DTL#ixzz0zp2ktgaQ

      Also, to clarify one important point: it has always been Groupon policy to allow merchants to cap deals. If a merchant sells too many Groupons, they’ll have a bad experience, the customer will have a bad experience, and therefore, Groupon loses. We’re longer-term thinkers than that. In fact, we have the opposite problem more often – where merchants protest a cap we recommend, convinced they can handle more customers than we think they can.

    8. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      I owned a mall-based cookie/cafe store and also a pretzel store.

      OK, I'll bite (so to speak)

      How did you end up with the handle "TVDinner"?

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      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    9. Re:The Law of Unintended Consequences... by Rary · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well yes, he claims that it has always been Groupon's policy. Of course, that was stated in response to a particular case in which the business owner claimed that Groupon refused to allow a cap on the number of groupons sold.

      We can't be sure what deals and limitations the various groupon salespeople actually present to retailers, but it's completely naive to think that Groupon is completely blameless in cases like this simply because the CEO issued a sympathetic press release.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

  2. And the moral of today's story is... by RogueyWon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... be careful about the special offers you advertise online. Groupon isn't at fault here - if anything, the complaint is that it did its job too well. If you put a sign in your window offering a special offer, you can take it down whenever you want. If you stick something out on the net, you need to be very sure that you can handle a bit of scaling around the response.

    Still, full credit to the bakery for actually meeting the orders. I suspect lots of far larger retailers would have tried to weasel out of the deal they'd offered in a situation like that. And so far as I can see from TFA, nobody is talking about lawsuits.

    1. Re:And the moral of today's story is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Other sellers have reported that the Groupon salespeople do their very best to convince companies not to put any cap at all on the amount of product available, downplaying the probability of just something like this.

      This is hence similar to a lender trying to get someone to maximise their borrowing. You could argue that the bakery as a company is a professional business and has no excuse - on the other hand you don't expect bakeries to be masters of internet marketing either. It would make you legally correct and a jerk.

  3. Just 102k? by DWMorse · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm sure she can do it. It'll be a piece of cake. 102,000 pieces.

    --
    There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
  4. Re:Limits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's in groupon's interest to not let the client do that. They get vast sums of money from these "deals" and they know the system doesn't do the small business any good, because the couponers are pretty much all piss taking free loaders.

  5. Very common by tripleevenfall · · Score: 5, Informative

    Stories in the press abound of small business retailers, particularly restaurants, living to regret making an offer on Groupon. These entities live on forming relationships with customers. Groupon brings in people who are only there to eat on the cheap and won't likely return.

    Example story: http://posiescafe.com/wp/?p=316

    "we met many, many terrible Groupon customers customers that didn’t follow the Groupon rules and used multiple Groupons for single transactions, and argued with you about it with disgusted looks on their faces, or who tipped based on what they owed (10% of $0 is zero dollars, so tossing in a dime was them being generous). "

  6. Re:When will businesses realize by spire3661 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The conversion rate for grouponers is abysmal. They are locusts out swarming for the next deal.

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    Good-bye
  7. Re:Stupid is as stupid does. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I may hate Groupon, but this person has no one to blame but herself. Do the math. If you sell that many coupons, even if only a fraction of them are redeemed, that's a lot of cupcakes.

    The point is that promoting your business via Groupon is very often a big mistake, unless you have a lot of perishable unsold inventory.

    Selling via Groupon doesn't do much to build your business, since most Groupon buyers are cheap - instead of looking to become regular full-price customers, they will look for the next Groupon.

    The customer is loyal to Groupon, not the businesses that sell via Groupon.

  8. Re:Limits by Loether · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My wife uses Groupon all the time and so by extension I use Groupons. I hate them for precisely the GPs reason. Retailers ask if you are using a Groupon. If you say yes you almost always get substandard treatment/products. The companies who use Groupon overextend themselves and then hire temps or decrease quality to cover for their mistake. It's bad for businesses and bad for customers. The only one it's good for is Groupon.

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    TODO create witty sig.
  9. Re:Geez... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, people are very bad a math.

    As evidence I cite MegaMillions, Power Ball, and the continued existence of Vegas with its billion dollar hotel/casinos.

    You don't understand that buying a lottery ticket is more than just owning an almost non-existent chance of winning enough money to actually change your life. It is the opportunity to spend a buck or two and spend several very pleasant days fantasizing about what life would be like if you do win. Seen that way, it isn't a bad bargain at all. It's certainly better than spending that couple of bucks on some high fructose corn syrup favored carbonated water that's tough on your liver, metabolism, and overall health.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  10. Re:expensive cupcakes by jank1887 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    you say that, yet we had people decide over the course of a couple years that a $0.50 cup of coffee was now worth $3.95. Of course they'll pay $5 for a cupcake.

  11. Re:expensive cupcakes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yeah, they have one in Gainesville, FL. It has a Sanskrit name, Sarkara, to make you feel more educated and karmic as you spend three dollars and something for a dry cupcake that ought to cost cents. It's *exactly* the same story as with coffee a few years ago: a cup of joe that used to cost cents at a diner or lunch counter in the 80's or before now costs dollars at Starbucks or Your Favorite Local Coffee Store (if you believe that purchasing a parity product at obscenely inflated prices from a "local" merchant as opposed to a chain is somehow morally superior: enjoy handing your money over for frivolities at an accelerated rate regardless). Interestingly, a coffee at the local coffee shop (Volta) around the corner from Sarkara cupcakes cost, to the penny, exactly the same: it's almost as if you're actually purchasing a token foodstuff of purely symbolic value to justify spending time in a place Other Than Home with wifi access, and the merchants are in pricing competition over that time, not over the token food item.

  12. Re:expensive cupcakes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You really have no idea what running a business entails do you. The INGREDIENTS for a cupcake would cost cents, then add the labor, then add the rent, add the cost of the nice environment tables chairs whatnot, add the labor involved in managing both the bakery personnel and the service/sales staff as well as their benefits and insurance, and while I've mentioned it, insurance against idiots slipping and falling on a cupcake they dropped and suing, don't forget all of the overhead involved in running an office and paying for all those pennies worth of raw materials, balancing the books, advertising, There are many more costs that I haven't listed but I think you might be getting the point.

    Just because you can make a cupcake for "cents" at home on your time with your equipment, by paying nothing for anything but ingredients DOSEN'T mean that you could do that as a business and stay in business and employ people.

  13. Re:There is no "inability" by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Merchants simply fail to actually do so.

    Not quite. The merchants that elect to set reasonable caps don't get their promo run. So you don't see them.

    Groupon runs the deals that make them the most money.

    If a cupcake business wants to run 200 coupons @ 75% off for $7where groupon takes half ($4.50) that's only $900 for groupon.

    Groupon simply won't run that deal.

    Groupon pushes hard for deals they damn well know don't make an ounce of sense for the business.

    When I hire a contractor, or a consultant, or an ad agency... their job is fundamentally to come up with a good solution for the the business.

    If a particular contractor consistently advises, even pushes businesses hard to make catastrophic decisions then they deserve some of the credit for those catastrophic decisions.

  14. There's a reason you spend $39 on a dozen cupcakes by raehl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because you're buying them for an "occasion".

    If you are tasked with providing dessert, stopping at wal-mart on the way to whatever occasion it is to pick up a dozen cupcakes for under $10 is tacky.

    But if you stop at the "gourmet" Cupcake place and spend $40 on "special" cupcakes, that's OK.

    You're really paying for the ability to buy your way out of having to actually bake without the social stigma of being too cheap/lazy.

  15. Re:expensive cupcakes by dondelelcaro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A "gourmet" cupcake is made in exactly the same oven with exactly the same ingredients as a regular cupcake...

    Just like a computer contains the same silicon and rare elements as any other computer, the devil is in how they're assembled and put together, and the skill with which someone makes them. A "working" program is made in exactly the same compiler with exactly the same syntactical constraints as a segfaulting program

    --
    http://www.donarmstrong.com
  16. Re:expensive cupcakes by RajivSLK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Exactly this. Except the $0.89 cup cake at my local grocer is made with mostly lard and sugar with waxy poor quality chocolate and lard icing and comes in maybe 3 different flavours and is sold in very high volumes at a low price.

    Whereas the specialty cup cake is made with real butter high quality chocolate and other ingredients and is available in 20 different flavours and is sold in low volumes at a high price.

    Basically think of Neapolitan ice cream from some big manufacturer vs Baskin Robins or some such. You can argue that they are overpriced for what they are but you can't say that the products are exactly the same.

    One last point I'd like to make is that in some other countries in world, like France for example, specialty bakeries making high end pastries and cakes are the *only* types of bakeries. People are so willing to pay for higher quality food that there are no cheap grocery store alternatives. So maybe it's not a fad.