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88-Year-Old Inventor Hassled By the DEA

New submitter Calibax writes "30 years ago, Bob Wallace and his partner came up with a product to help hikers, flood victims and others purify water. Wallace, now 88 years old, packs his product by hand in his garage, stores it in his backyard shed and sells it for $6.50. Recently, the DEA has been hassling him because his product uses crystalline iodine. He has been refused a license to purchase the iodine because it can be used in the production of crystal meth, and as a result he is now out of business. A DEA spokesman describes this as 'collateral damage' not resulting from DEA regulations but from the selfish actions of criminals."

34 of 757 comments (clear)

  1. Not just meth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It can also be used to create an explosive compound that shall remain nameless.

    1. Re:Not just meth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As can coal, sulfur, saltpeter. Let's forbid them.

    2. Re:Not just meth by sortius_nod · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nope, that's the ether that causes meth labs to explode. I won't go into details, but you use a shitload of ether in amphetamine production.

    3. Re:Not just meth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It can also be used to create an explosive compound that shall remain nameless.

      Why should it be nameless?

      Nitrogen Triiodide

      Censorship will never prevent misuse, only perpetuate ignorance. It is better to explain that this compound explodes violently, and at the smallest touch (starts at about 1:00).

    4. Re:Not just meth by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Funny

          Because, dear god, no one knows how to use a search engine. If they did, they wouldn't see the abundance of links that reference nitrogen triiodide. And forbid the thought that they could figure out where to source the other ingredient. (hint: anywhere that sells cleaning supplies.)

          If I remember right, it's in the Anarchists Cookbook, when I read it about 20 years ago.

          But, I seriously doubt the guy would be selling it as an explosive. If he made any quantity, he'd most likely blow himself up trying to transport it.

          The war on drugs... The war on kids blowing their fingers off trying to make explosives... I guess the later is a better reason than the former.

          I never made it When I was a kid (like around 12-ish), a friend got a hold of crystalline iodine, and we *were* going to do it. It sat around for a while, while I contemplated the fun of *not* blowing myself up. Then I discovered something. Girls are pretty, and nice to touch.. Yippie! Hormones saved the day!

          Thinking about it, and reflecting on two divorces, maybe I should have stuck with making unstable compounds. It would have probably been safer than unstable women.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    5. Re:Not just meth by Nugoo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why should it be nameless?

      Because "triiodide" is extremely awkward to say.

      --
      I explicitly release the above into the public domain.
    6. Re:Not just meth by Sique · · Score: 5, Funny

      Both can cost you an arm and a leg.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    7. Re:Not just meth by Alain+Williams · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So: some nutter abuses something useful, what should we do ? Another nutter kills someone with a kitchen knife, should we ban all knives ? You use petrol to make a molotov cocktail so should we shut all petrol stations ? We cannot tie everything down just because a few people abuse what we need for day to day life.

    8. Re:Not just meth by logicnazi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yah but not one of particular use to terrorists as Iodine tri-whatever is too unstable to make a useful explosive. You start making large batches and it will go off randomly while drying or large parts may fail to detonate.

      It's much less of a public safety threat than a gun. The expected harm caused by a man with a pistol far exceeds that of a bomber with this stuff.

      --

      If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:

    9. Re:Not just meth by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why should it be nameless?

      Because "triiodide" is extremely awkward to say.

      Actually if explosives were your only worry the best thing would be to give free access to Iodine. The terrorists are much more likely to blow themselves up before getting out of the lab with nitrogen triiodide than almost any other explosive.

    10. Re:Not just meth by Canazza · · Score: 5, Funny

      Daffodils are fucking hardcore.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    11. Re:Not just meth by Alain+Williams · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm guessing you don't live in the UK where this kind of reactionary "OMG someone got hurt let's ban something" vote-chasing by our politicians is a daily fact of life.

      I do -- but I don't read the Daily Mail.

    12. Re:Not just meth by tautog · · Score: 5, Funny

      We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a saltshaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... Also, a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether, and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge, and I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon.

      Sorry, couldn't resist. One of my all-time favorite quotes. :-)

  2. Re:Wrong. by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, the problem is the prohibition mindset.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  3. Is this guy bald? by anilg · · Score: 5, Funny

    Also, make sure there's no Los Pollos Hermanos close by.

    --
    http://dilemma.gulecha.org - My philospohical short film.
  4. Another victim of prohibition by mykos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can we just end prohibition already? Drug enforcement is ruining more lives than drugs.

  5. Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by schnell · · Score: 5, Informative

    I hate to read TFA and I hate to defend the DEA (did we learn nothing from Prohibition?) but once again this is a sloppy and wholly misleading article summary (thanks Slashdot!) To wit:

    • The DEA doesn't think he's running a meth lab, they think people who run meth labs are buying his product to use.
    • The DEA has started keeping a much tighter rein on the active ingredient in his product in order to keep it out of the hands of the aforementioned meth labs (just like they did a couple years back with buying decongestants using psuedoephedrine). His response was:
    • He was supposed to pay $1200 for a license to handle this chemical and refused.
    • He was asked to keep tabs on who bought the product to the extent that he would report "suspicious" bulk purchasers. He refused.
    • The DEA asked him for proof that he has security where his product is made to keep people from stealing the active ingredient. He sent them a picture of his dog sitting in front of his garage.
    • He also does not appear to be able to tell the difference between the DEA and the TSA, as the article points out. This does not suggest he is good at dealing with bureaucracy.

    As much as I like this guy and his sense of humor, it seems much less sinister than the Slashdot linkbait summary indicates. It appears to be a pretty simple case of "government restricts chemical that can be used in meth labs, old guy making product in his garage with said product doesn't want to deal with the government bureaucracy and is surprised when the government shuts off his access to that chemical."

    --
    "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by Calibax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      According to TFA, he did apply for a license and was refused by the DOJ. He's appealing that decision.

      The fact remains that a useful product to purify water cheaply is no longer available because the government wants to control the active ingredient, and is willing to make the product unavailable as "collateral damage". I would guess some other collateral damage is the people who may end up with diseases because they drink water that isn't purified, and the percentage that die as a result.

    2. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're operating under the premise that it's reasonable to place all these restrictions on his behavior to prevent meth labs from popping up.

      Another perspective (that I share) is that the government shouldn't be trying to regulate drugs to begin with, and that the government is essentially taxing him to pursue an unachievable objective, eradicating drug use.

      I appreciate the grandparent post providing some context, but to me it's just another example of an outdated prohibitionist mindset getting in the way of people actually producing useful products.

      The period of extended prohibition in the US has tremendous costs that people have sort of become habituated to--not just financial costs, but costs in terms of police militarization, civil rights violations, an implicitly (if not explicitly) racist justice system, etc.

      This sort of government babysitting doesn't seem sustainable in the long-term, especially if the government gets serious about what it actually needs to spend money on and what it doesn't (and if it doesn't happen voluntarily, it will happen as a consequence of market and economic collapse).

    3. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by 1u3hr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While the DEA has in the past, and likely will in the future done some stupid and mindless things, it doesn't appear that this is the case in this instance

      It does to me. It won't stop real meth cooks for a minute. It just covers the DEA's asses and fucks up a legitimate businessman selling a potentially life-saving product.

      he could put a little more thought into the product, seal off the iodine in sintered glass or some other method that allowed water to pass over the crystals but did not allow for removal or tampering

      Yeah, because a meth cook could never work out how to break a glass capsule.

      And it would cost a lot more and probably price it out of the market (for those who actually wanted to purify water).He has been filling the iodine bottles by hand in his shed, and doesn't have an R&D facility or make his own glassware.

    4. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It doesn't sound like he was 'asked', since when he refused, they forbade him the chemical. Asking implies that you have the choice to say yes OR no.

      I ask my 4 year old if he'd like to go to bed, and he doesn't have a choice. That in no way diminishes the polite manner in which I ask.

    5. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by dcollins · · Score: 5, Informative

      He had no competitors, apparently. This action just put the entire market for this particular product entirely out of business.

      Looking at the Wikipedia article right now, these iodine crystals were a low-cost and high-water-volume alternative to dissolving iodine tablets, and Polar Pure is the only product of its class mentioned.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_water_purification#Chemical_disinfection

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    6. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it was legal, you wouldn't ever have a meth lab next door, some mail order house would be selling reasonably pure Chinese made meth for a fraction of the price a bathtub lab could make it for.

      Meth labs exist because of our drug laws.

    7. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And if drugs were legalised, there would no longer be any reason to operate a back street meth lab...
      Drugs would instead be manufactured in large factories, which can be situated well away from any neighbours and can have regulated safety procedures... Explosive chemicals are already processed every day in factories on an industrial scale with a relatively good safety track record.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    8. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Informative

      And they know that small operators don't have the resources to do that. The NAR and Tripoli (model/amateur rocket organizations) sued the BATFE for classifying Ammonium Perchlorate based propellants as explosives, when the BATFE's own testing showed that the burn rate was a small fraction of their _own_ limit for what constitutes and explosive. It took a decade and a six figure legal bill to beat them in court.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    9. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's not really the DEA's fault that there's a lot of people out there that are more interested in getting high than dealing with the consequences.

      Yes, and it follows that piling on extra consequences - jail time - is never going to be effective. We should instead accept that this is human nature and concentrate on mitigating the consequences, for example by having the government run drug dens where people can get their high while under guard, on safe dosages and substances, and with overall usage monitored to keep it on safe level. Of course such measures would be needed only for drugs likely to result in dangerous behaviour, rather than, say, cannabis or tobacco.

      People routinely blame the DEA and the prohibition on the war in Mexico, but the fact is that if there weren't so many self entitled jack asses willing to pay for the product despite its illegality it wouldn't be an issue.

      So DEA is not responsible for the unintended side effects of its actions, but drug users are? Despite this being the same unintended side effect? After all, if drugs were not illegal the war in Mexico would not be an issue.

      At the end of the day it's just rationalizing a previously held view point rather than attempting to get the law changed in a reasonable way. This isn't a human rights issue, civil disobedience isn't exactly going to represent any meaningful sacrifice.

      At the end of the day human rights are whatever people agree they are. There are several competing versions, and I'd argue that the right to alter your body chemistry should be included, because after all it's your body.

      Also, who are you to say what sacrifice is meaningful or not to someone else?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    10. Re:Yet Another Terrible Flamebait Slashdot Summary by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This isn't a human rights issue

      On the contrary, the Supreme Court ruled that it's a woman's right to remove a blastocyct from her body. If she has the right to remove a fetus, why doesn't she have the right to inject heroin? It isn't anyone's business but hers. If she steals to support her habit, arrest her for stealing.

      People routinely blame the DEA and the prohibition on the war in Mexico

      And they're right, just as alcohol prohibition was responsible for the wars in Chicago and other cities. The only reason there wasn't violence in Canada was because alcohol was legal in Canada.

  6. Re:wow by skine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    More accurately, this is like hassling a firework manufacturer under the guise of stopping gun violence.

  7. Iodine isn't freely available by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Funny

    Iodine isn't available without a license from the DEA.

    Not here, or here, or even here.

    In fact, I can only find 32 results in the first web site I thought to look in.

    Looks like the system works!

  8. Re:Cue all the comments from Keynesians by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Keynes is widely misunderstood. He once said that it would be better to build totally useless pyramids than to have high unemployment, but he wasn't actually suggesting that we should do that. It's obvious when you think about it, because there are a million and one productive things that could be done with the same labor. The actual idea is that it's better to pay someone to work in a soup kitchen than it is to watch crime skyrocket if you leave them to starve and they resort to theft.

    If (as would seem obvious from this case) the DEA is not engaged in anything productive, you don't have to make them unemployed. You just have to eliminate their current positions and instead set them to work patrolling the streets in gang neighborhoods at night to suppress actual crime.

  9. The list of controlled chemicals by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's the DEA's list. Those marked as "List 1" are the most restricted. It's not that long a list. Iodine is the only chemical on List 1 that isn't particularly hazardous.

  10. Re:Wrong. by Shotgun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And that is why Portugal's approach to drugs, treating it as a medical and mental health issue, is working and ours isn't.

    After all the money spent on the War on Drugs, the US still has the addiction rates that we had at the turn of the 19th century. If we only had as many freedoms.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  11. Re:Motherfuckers. by jcr · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ron Paul's position on evolution is that it happens, and that it's not the whole story. He makes this clear in his book, Liberty Defined:

    The creationists frown on the evolutionists, and the evolutionists dismiss the creationists as kooky and unscientific. Lost in this struggle are those who look objectively at all the scientific evidence for evolution without feeling any need to reject the notion of an all-powerful, all-knowing Creator. My personal view is that recognizing the validity of an evolutionary process does not support atheism nor should it diminish one’s view about God and the universe.

    In a nutshell, it's the same position that the Anglican church reached in the decade or so after Darwin published the Origins of Species.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  12. Good point but.... by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    - $1200 is a lot to pay for a license and a license generally needs to be renewed once a year.
    - He would need to produce an additional 200-300 units a year to justify the cost of the license and this is a lot of units to produce.
    - He's 88 years old. He most probably produces the product for his love of the technology than for profit by this time.

    Let's be pretty blunt about this... I'd imagine that it all started with the $1200. While the DEA is obviously trying to do their job, their job policing the drug trade in the U.S. should not be impact legitimate uses of these chemicals by stopping the small and up and coming businesses from being able to function. It would be like saying that since a bomb maker would likely need a resistor or relay to make a detonator, then anyone who wishes to build anything with a resistor or relay should have to pay DHS a $1200 fee before they could purchase them. This would eliminate a tremendous number of small businesses from starting up and would seriously hurt America as a result. We as computer geeks often forget that things like crystalline iodine is a component to a guy like this in the same way that a resistor is to a electronics nerd.

    The DEA is a publicly funded entity. They already receive their budgets from the government and we as a people pay their operating expenses as a whole because we recognize that they "fight an evil" which most of us believe needs to be fought. I am disappointed to see that they are penalizing this guy. Yes, you have many great and valid points about how he dealt poorly with this situation...but... he's justifiably pissed off that the DEA is penalizing him for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I makes absolutely no difference which organization it is that is trying to take his money... honest inventors and businessmen shouldn't have to pay stipends such as this because there's a few bad apples screwing it up for him.

    No he obviously is not a diplomat. He almost certainly isn't someone you'd want negotiating contracts for your company. But he is a guy who produces and probably regularly improves upon a technical innovation and provides it to a group of people who wish to buy it and see a utility with it. The DEA is obviously aware of him now. They had the budget to track him down and communicate with him. Asking $1200 for a license to a chemical he obviously knows how to handle was just plain stupid. As to the bulk purchasers thing... this is obviously what was most important or should have been to the DEA. Instead of putting the guy out of business, they instead should have been more diplomatic and asked him "If someone orders more of these things than they could actually use, could you give them a call and say 'Hi... wow you're my best customer this month... it's a big order and I don't want to make you wait unjustifiably long, what are you using all these filters for? Can I send you the first 1/4 of the order today as I have that many on my shelf and I'll send the remaining 3/4 when I finish producing them?' and call us if they sound like they aren't buying them for the filtering itself.". I bet you anything, the old fella would have been much more amenable, and then the DEA would have accomplished something meaningful instead of shutting down a small, legitimate business.