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Stanford's Free Computer Science Courses

mikejuk writes "Stanford University is offering the online world more of its undergraduate level CS courses. These free courses consist of You Tube videos with computer-marked quizzes and programming assignments. The ball had been started rolling by Sebastian Thrun and Peter Norvig's free online version of their Stanford AI class, for which they hoped to reach an audience in the order of a hundred thousand, a target which they seem to have achieved. As well as the previously announced Machine learning course you can now sign up to any of: Computer Science 101, Software as a Service, Human-Computer Interaction, Natural Language Processing, Game Theory, Probabilistic Graphical Models, Cryptography and Design and Analysis of Algorithms. Almost a complete computer science course and they are adding more. Introductory videos and details are available from each courses website."

161 comments

  1. Future of education by Azureflare · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With the power of the internet and technology rapidly replacing traditional classrooms and workplaces, this seems to be the most cost effective and efficient way to educate those who are young. When employment is no longer an incentive for going to college, we have to find ways to provide education or our entire country (And the world) will suffer when we have a nation of troglodytes.

    1. Re:Future of education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That will happen just after social networking replaces meeting people in bars

    2. Re:Future of education by geekoid · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Employment should have never been the incentive for going to college. Learning should have been.

      Of course, it's hard to feel bed for someone who can't get a job based on their BA degree in 'History', or 'art lit'.

      Seriously, their great programs, but how many time have you seen 'History' major wanted listed on craigslist?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Future of education by Calos · · Score: 2

      Personally, I wouldn't want someone with a high school diploma or GED designing the buildings I live and work in.

      But with concern to many things... yes, a degree should not be a requirement, and I have no idea what these people thought they were going to do with their lives and their loan debt.

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    4. Re:Future of education by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That will happen just after social networking replaces meeting people in bars

      That's already happened, sometime early in 2009.

      Where you been?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Future of education by Fned · · Score: 5, Funny

      If going to bars leaves you 100k in debt and bereft of any employment opportunities, you're either doing it wrong, or doing it very, very right...

    6. Re:Future of education by hedwards · · Score: 2, Informative

      $100k? You're doing it wrong if you're going $100k into debt. It hasn't been that long since I graduated and I was only looking at a fraction of that. Most recently I spent a year at grad school for under $5k for all school related expenses.

    7. Re:Future of education by hedwards · · Score: 2

      The CIA regularly hires history majors.

    8. Re:Future of education by Somecallmechief · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In my opinion, education falls into one of two buckets: either you espouse to the Social Security mentality in which someone else is "solving the problem" or you are proactively engaged in "solving the problem" for yourself. It's unfortunate that at a societal level the evaluation of an individual's of education operates out of a black box not dissimilar to the evaluation of an individual's credit score. The solution isn't necessarily to make it easier to validate input/output from the black box. Rather, we can employ other methodologies for validating individual aptitude. The question is fundamentally about hiring. It is true that the process of studying and obtaining a degree from specific institutions for specific fields has a measurable, objective, and positive outcome for a limited number of students; however, this is by far the edge case. With limited exceptions, doctors, lawyers and politicians climb into careers without formal training and nationally accepted stamps of approval on degrees. But this is the edge. In reality, there is very little business value in even including a degree criteria for job positioning/hiring. It deters those who are qualified but do not hold a degree, and it does nothing to guarantee even a low bar for the work ethic, aptitude or drive of the applicant. Nothing matters more than the answers to these questions: "What do you know?", "How long have you known it?" and "How have you employed that knowledge?". While Stanford's experiment is great, it is no better than than the Khan Academy or any other resource which disseminates knowledge--and the output is the same: the individual's who devote themselves to the task of learning will derive benefit, but that outcome is wholly unquantifiable to employers evaluating applicants.

      --
      If it looks like a duck, let's call it a moose.
    9. Re:Future of education by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Funny

      In a bar, wondering why he's not meeting people.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    10. Re:Future of education by LeanSystems · · Score: 1
      From utexas.edu:

      Estimated Total Cost of Undergraduate Education (Fall 2010 - Spring 2011)

      Texas resident on-campus $23,596 - 24,936
      Texas resident off-campus $23,734 - 25,074
      Non-resident on-campus $35,776 - 45,960
      Non-resident off-campus $35,914 - 46,098

      This is a tax-supported state school, although probably one of the more expensive ones.

    11. Re:Future of education by tyrione · · Score: 1

      With the power of the internet and technology rapidly replacing traditional classrooms and workplaces, this seems to be the most cost effective and efficient way to educate those who are young. When employment is no longer an incentive for going to college, we have to find ways to provide education or our entire country (And the world) will suffer when we have a nation of troglodytes.

      The AI course is boring as hell. It's not at all remotely what I expect from an Engineering curriculum in lectures. It's extremely weak. If that's the idea of the future of education than we're screwing ourselves out of the future. The Lectures via YouTube should be an extension, not the end game, when it comes to teaching.

    12. Re:Future of education by Isaac+Remuant · · Score: 1

      I think you didn't watch the video where it said the classes were meant to excite people into learning and using that branch of computer science.

      It's an introduction to Artificial Intelligence. I guess you find the book boring as hell too, right?

      --
      "Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
    13. Re:Future of education by White+Flame · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's what licensing is for. If they're properly licensed to do the job, does it matter whether they went to learn?

    14. Re:Future of education by ironjaw33 · · Score: 2

      The CIA regularly hires history majors.

      I attend a university with a particularly strong liberal arts program. Nearly all of my friends who were liberal arts majors (and graduated within the past 5 years) have been quickly scooped up by various government agencies in Washington.

    15. Re:Future of education by scottbomb · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's because no one else will hire them.

    16. Re:Future of education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Personally, I wouldn't want someone with a high school diploma or GED designing the buildings I live and work in"

      If they can do the job better than someone with a doctorate (not at all unlikely if they've been working in the industry the whole time and studying with passion in their spare time, as is common in IT), you should.

    17. Re:Future of education by worip · · Score: 1

      Education not just for the young ones, but cost effective continuous development for the older generation as well. Especially useful in rapidly evolving fields.

      --
      A picture is worth exactly 1024 words.
    18. Re:Future of education by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      It IS quantifiable if you can get a promotion due to it, or when you interview, or go for a certification.

    19. Re:Future of education by Stoutlimb · · Score: 1

      Meeting a woman in a bar can easily have such consequences.

    20. Re:Future of education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who cares what employers think, the point of life is self-realization. Let the govt provide a basic income to all who want it, and encourage innovation through challenges. Relying on corporations to provide all the innovation is putting all your eggs in one basket. Corps don't do so well at disruptive innovation, they're better at incremental innovation. Free up ppl to unleash their disruptively creative instincts by guaranteeing them a minimum standard of living, and the pace of knowledge advancement and technological progress will increase, and the currency will stay strong no matter how much money we create.

    21. Re:Future of education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the end of my last 'relationship', the stress cost me my job, and the court made me wrote a $90,000 check. Getting nicked for $100k would be pretty easy to exceed. of course if ya don't marry them, it significantly reduces your financial exposure. I can see where there is room to argue I didn't "do it the right way".

    22. Re:Future of education by mobby_6kl · · Score: 2

      Shouldn't an introduction that is supposed to excite people into learning be, you know, not boring?

      Physics aren't particularly exciting either, but a while ago I watched videos of Walter Lewin's physics lectures at MIT, and they were fantastic, to the point of making me want to learn physics even though I have at most a high-school level of physics and it's completely unrelated to what I am currently doing and what I'm planning to do in the future.

    23. Re:Future of education by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know the old saying: those who fail to learn from history are doomed to forever work in the private sector.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    24. Re:Future of education by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      Wow... I think I would want the person designing the buildings I live in and work in to have *at a minimum* a high school diploma or a GED. I'm fairly certain I would want them to have a university diploma in a related field as well. That, or at least have drawings signed off by somebody with the requisite training and certification.

    25. Re:Future of education by tqk · · Score: 1

      ... this seems to be the most cost effective and efficient way to educate those who are young.

      To hell with the young. I'm over 50, and this looks damned attractive to me. With "Stanford Graduate" on my resume, I'll be unstoppable! Mwua, ha, ha, haaaa! :-)

      Seriously, there's a lot of support out there for the under 30 crowd. Not so much for us older folk. Ptheh.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    26. Re:Future of education by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      The Fed doesnt care what your degree is to any great extent. There are a few restrictions on things like engineering jobs, but it's really just a checkbox. The real BS is that they won't hire people with experience if they can't mark the checkbox. I've worked with people who had 30 yrs of experience but not the 'right' degree. They couldn't get past the data entry phase of the process.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    27. Re:Future of education by tqk · · Score: 1

      You know the old saying: those who fail to learn from history are doomed to forever work in the private sector.

      That's damned near the funniest, and most true, statement I've ever seen on /. Thanks. :-)

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    28. Re:Future of education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might want to double check the employment rate of people with higher education vs high school. You will find a large discrepancy. You can also check average and median salaries of each. You will find that salaries nearly double for those with higher education. After that you can look into median lifetime earnings of each and you will find that people with higher education earn 1 mil more than people with high school education.

      The myth that higher education doesn't outweigh the costs/debt is just that, a myth. I recommend you check BLS and look at the data broken down by demographic, degrees, and schools. /guy who hates when poorly informed people permeate a rumor

    29. Re:Future of education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what licensing is for. If they're properly licensed to do the job, does it matter whether they went to learn?

      It sure does matter whether they learned anything, but it may not matter so much where they learned it. Muphry's law in abundance in this thread.

    30. Re:Future of education by Calos · · Score: 1

      Haha, oops.

      We mean the same thing. I meant that I wouldn't want that person to just have a high school diploma or GED, that I would prefer a university as well.

      Too much implicit there. My bad.

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    31. Re:Future of education by Nemo137 · · Score: 1

      Actually, a fair chunk of history (and, weirdly, classics) majors end up working in medical research. The ability to write clearly, do research, and synthesize mountains of information are is not to be taken lightly.

  2. free by hguorbray · · Score: 0

    now if only they would start giving free degrees... then people couldn't complain when they ended up w/McJobs

    -I'm just sayin'

    1. Re:free by Calos · · Score: 2

      That, or McJobs will start requiring degrees.

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    2. Re:free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is already on the way. I had a twenty year career in IT, careening from position to position based on nothing more than a willingness and ability to learn new things. Now I can't even get people to interview me, because anything they don't say I'm overqualified for requires a degree, which I never bothered with. More fool me, I suppose, but given that most IT jobs don't really require (or often utilize) a CS degree, it's clear to me that the requirement for a degree has become a function of how many resumes have them, rather than whether they indicate readiness to perform a task.

  3. AI Class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm taking the AI class right now. While there are constraints on the complexity of questions they can ask and what they can expect to teach online, it's still very interesting. At the very least it presents an involved beginners guide as a starting point in this field.

    I've never taken any other online courses, but having quizes mixed into the lectures is a really good idea. Makes you really think about the material as you are going through it.

    1. Re:AI Class by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm taking all three courses being offered right now: AI, machine learning, and intro to databases. The AI class uses its own unique software platform, while the other two share one (which will presumably be used for most or all of next quarter's classes).

      I like the other two much better than the AI class for several reasons: first, because they make those mid-lecture quizzes optional and also allow the lectures to be downloaded instead of streamed. Second, I like how, unlike the AI class, the other two have actual programming exercises. Third, I like how the homework questions for the other two are presented in a normal web form format (whereas the AI class "homeworks" require you to watch a video of the instructor reading the questions) and also allow multiple submissions.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:AI Class by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Informative

      By the way, as a concrete example of what I dislike about the AI class: we just took the midterm (I got a 96%!), and I'm trying to find out which of the 15 questions I missed. To do so, I have to go re-stream each question video in turn until I figure out which one I got wrong.

      In contrast, when I took the database class midterm, immediately upon submitting the web form containing my answers, I was served a page containing my score, the questions, my responses, and an explanation of each -- in a few kB of HTML, not a tedious half-hour of video.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:AI Class by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

      To do so, I have to go re-stream each question video in turn until I figure out which one I got wrong.

      No you don't. Click the "Progress" navbar link. Click Homework / Exams. Click the right-pointing arrow on the left edge of the Midterm header to expand a list of questions and how many sub-questions you got correct out of the number possible. Say you missed a part on Question 01. Click the Question 01 link. It will take you directly to the answer page and show your wrong answers in red.

      I only got a 91%, but seem to have scored higher on the "using the web interface" section. ;-)

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    4. Re:AI Class by nzhavok · · Score: 1

      Also taking all three courses and I pretty much agree with what you have to say.

      The downloadable vids from the ML and DB courses are nice to have perpetually and also it's quicker to zip around in VLC than to stream it if you're looking for something in a hurry. The assignments in each are also pretty cool, much better than the AI quizzes IMO.

      I think that Peter Norvig's position at Google may have something to do with the AI courses preference for Google based solutions over the bespoke ones used for the other classes. I plan on taking the Lean Launchpad next year and it will be interesting to see how the system works with a non-technical subject where anything except a multi-choice quiz seems difficult to mark.

      --

      He who defends everything, defends nothing. -- Fredrick The Great
    5. Re:AI Class by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      Hey, thanks!

      Of course, having to stream those videos to answer homework or exam questions is still a pain in the ass the first time around.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:AI Class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, I've switched to using Safari's Activity monitor to identify the .flv file, option-double-clicking to download the file, and moving onto the next lecture as soon as the download starts. Then there's a bit of tedious re-naming of the files, but once I finish, I have nicely labeled .flv files I can quickly review / fast forward / rewind / whatnot.

      The only things I lack are answer videos. I'm thinking of going back and grabbing them, but it's still slightly time-consuming and not always useful.

    7. Re:AI Class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can just click the ? at the end of the video links to go straight to the questions. I'll agree the overall interface needs improvement, but I found this a useful shortcut.

    8. Re:AI Class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you don't have to restream. Go the Progress page and you will see which questions you did not score and you can click on those questions to see your wrong answer choices.

    9. Re:AI Class by Sipper · · Score: 1

      I'm taking all three classes also, and like you I greatly prefer the Database and Machine Learning classes over the AI class.

      In DB and ML I can download the videos and watch them locally. I can download the notes, which are available as PDFs (as well as other formats). I can either download the exercises, the software to do the work locally, or can save the web page locally from the completed exercises. This means that for the ML and DB classes, I can easily create a complete local record of my work. [The only exception is the "screenside chat" in the DB class, but I don't think I'll need to refer to that later, so I think that's fine.] The DB and ML classes seem very well thought out and I honestly have nothing but praise for them.

      But in the AI class there aren't any notes available, so the way I have to make notes is by making screenshots. That may sound reasonable but it's not as simple as that. In the AI class, both presenters are making video of paper they're writing onto, and constantly waving a pen above the page in the video, making it tricky to find a place the video can be stopped. The videos are embedded YouTube videos, and it takes about 2 seconds for the video to actually stop once the pause button has been pressed, and once it pauses the controls come up and cover up the bottom part of the video. And if the end of the video is reached, the next video starts to play automatically. It's also possible to open each video in it's own separate page and view them on YouTube directly, but then there are too many clicks to get to the next video, so I end up using the embedded version. In short -- it's damn annoying. So I like the material in the AI class, but I don't like the mechanics of what I have to go through for interacting with the website to get it.

      In addition, the AI class constantly ambushes the student with questions that have not yet been covered, and then cover the material afterward. Ugh. That's frustrating. That's a teaching method I call "here's what I should have taught you before asking you this question", or if I were less generous, "here's why you're wrong." It's not a good method of teaching, IMHO.

      Some of the questions in the DB and ML class can be quite tricky, but they're actually fun to work through, and if you get stuck both classes have a Forum to get help from other students, which the AI class also lacks. The end result is that the DB and ML classes guide you and make a helping hand available, where the AI class asks questions and informs you later, and leaves you on your own.

      So while it would sound like these three classes were equal, they're not. ;-)

      Now -- all that said, my praises go to the four professors of these classes for making them available for free.
      I'm getting a good bit out of these classes, and it's a lot of stuff that I wouldn't normally get to take because I was an Engineering major rather than a CS major.

    10. Re:AI Class by AdamHaun · · Score: 1

      To do so, I have to go re-stream each question video in turn until I figure out which one I got wrong.

      No you don't. Click the question mark next to the video link on the Course page in the Available Units list and it'll take you right to the question. You can also skip the quizzes by clicking on the link to the next video.

      --
      Visit the
    11. Re:AI Class by AdamHaun · · Score: 2

      In addition, the AI class constantly ambushes the student with questions that have not yet been covered, and then cover the material afterward. Ugh. That's frustrating. That's a teaching method I call "here's what I should have taught you before asking you this question", or if I were less generous, "here's why you're wrong." It's not a good method of teaching, IMHO.

      I have to disagree with this. It's more of a Socratic method than anything else, and I haven't seen any unreasonable questions. Personally, I love it -- the quizzes are a good focus to get me thinking about a problem, and when I'm wrong it clears up misconceptions a lot faster than the lectures do. You can always skip them and come back to them, and they don't count toward the final grade. They're also good for practice and reviews. There's no downside to having them. I suspect a lot of people (not necessarily you) are frustrated because they don't really have the background for the course -- one of those "90% of people think they're above average" problems.

      --
      Visit the
    12. Re:AI Class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations on your 96%!! I guess you're really good at guessing what's in the closed fist of the teacher, solving problems that have already been solved!

    13. Re:AI Class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm taking machine learning and I must say it is very good. So good I wonder why they giving it for free.

    14. Re:AI Class by stg · · Score: 1

      In the AI class, both presenters are making video of paper they're writing onto, and constantly waving a pen above the page in the video, making it tricky to find a place the video can be stopped. The videos are embedded YouTube videos, and it takes about 2 seconds for the video to actually stop once the pause button has been pressed, and once it pauses the controls come up and cover up the bottom part of the video.

      While I still agree that PDF notes would be much better, any screenshot program that freezes the screen would solve most of your problem. I use Ashampoo Snap, and I still have to wait for the pen to be in a place that doesn't block anything, but it freezes the screen whenever I press the shortcut (then I can clip just what I want).

    15. Re:AI Class by stg · · Score: 1

      Third, I like how the homework questions for the other two are presented in a normal web form format (whereas the AI class "homeworks" require you to watch a video of the instructor reading the questions) and also allow multiple submissions.

      I am taking the two AI classes, and I find that pretty annoying too. It also takes a lot more time than just reading the notes, and even worse - all the time they have to post corrections and clarification in text below the video, whereas they would just edit the question if it was in text format.

    16. Re:AI Class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Andrew Ng is an excellent teacher. The problem with AI class is that you don't learn to use the knowledge. The exercises are ridiculously trivial. All we ever get to do is refactor a given mathematical formula into an Octave one-liner.

    17. Re:AI Class by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      You mean the ML class exercises are ridiculously trivial; the AI class has no exercises at all.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  4. Amazing Stuff by hellkyng · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the way education should be, available to anyone with an interest. MIT has a similar program with content freely available I believe: http://ocw.mit.edu/ . IMHO this is what libraries will eventually evolve into. This type of knowledge sharing is the root of a libraries books are about, and getting that content from the expert source in the field is hard to beat. Definitely cool stuff.

    1. Re:Amazing Stuff by fliptout · · Score: 3, Informative

      The last time I looked, MIT does not have lectures online. On the other hand, all the free (and not free) Stanford lectures I've seen have been wonderful.

      --
      A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
    2. Re:Amazing Stuff by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The difference between these classes and MIT's OpenCourseware is that these classes have a schedule with assignments and grades.

      For many people, such as procrastinators and those motivated by competing with the other students (since participants get a class ranking at the end), that makes a huge difference.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Amazing Stuff by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, but right now Stanford is pwning MIT with online class offering. Come on MIT, step it up!

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:Amazing Stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      MIT has some lectures online. For example, Gilbert Strang's excellent linear algebra video lectures are available, as well as some other classes he's taught.

    5. Re:Amazing Stuff by angry+tapir · · Score: 4, Informative

      MIT has videos of lectures online. But unlike Stanford it's more a "work at your own pace" style thing instead of actually signing up for a course.

    6. Re:Amazing Stuff by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That might work well for some subjects and some students, but it's naive to say the least to suggest that this is likely to be a viable replacement of the educational system any time soon.

      The reason it's far off isn't the means of communicating it, it's the students, the students haven't evolved to the point where they don't need a teacher or at least a tutor at most points of the process. Sure there are a few that don't need any help at all, but there's little to no evidence to suggest that they're the status quo.

    7. Re:Amazing Stuff by Jeheto · · Score: 1

      I've actually been taking their intro level programming class. http://academicearth.org/courses/introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming I have tried to learn programming a few times before through sites like cprogramming.com, but there's just so much jargon to wade through. This course has made it much easier to grasp some of the fundamentals. I will say though, it isn't perfect. If I get stuck on a problem and Google can't help I have to post to a forum and wait for a few days, trading information back and forth with someone who knows what they're doing. Also, there's no answer key for assignments.

    8. Re:Amazing Stuff by pz · · Score: 2

      And it was all started by ArsDigita University way back when.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    9. Re:Amazing Stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who is signed up for both AI and ML, I second that. There is a lot of online study material out there, but what sets these classes apart is the quality and accessibility of the material. I am truly enjoying the experiment and looking forward to a continuation. Many thanks to Stanford and all involved!

  5. Virtual Learning by byteherder · · Score: 1

    You get all the knowledge of a Stanford CS graduate without having to spend 4 years in Palo Alto.

    1. Re:Virtual Learning by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      Minus the piece of paper that says you graduated from Stanford (which is why most people go to college these days).

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    2. Re:Virtual Learning by knuthin · · Score: 1

      There are limits to the complexity of the questions asked, as pointed out by someone before. You won't be having "all the knowledge", but it's a nice place to start with.

      --
      Some apps are WYSIWYG. Some others are WYSIWTF.
    3. Re:Virtual Learning by DrEasy · · Score: 1

      You're still missing out on the course projects, which are probably the most valuable piece. The Stanford students in the AI course get to work on programming projects, and they get evaluated on those by actual humans. Of course those projects are also available to you if you want to work on them on your own, but there's no actual incentive on finishing them, nor any interaction with other students or a TA.

      Also, the machine learning course is a "dumbed down" version. The programming assignments are more of an exercise in manipulating matrices than in understanding the deeper mechanics of machine learning. The same prof teaches a much nicer one in person (material is available online though), but it requires math baggage that most people registered to the online course won't have.

      I think the database course is the big winner so far. It is very well taught, and is challenging enough to keep you interested.

      In any case, kudos to all the instructors for their time and effort.

      --
      "In our tactical decisions, we are operating contrary to our strategic interest."
    4. Re:Virtual Learning by gdy · · Score: 1

      Actually, the online Machine Learning course is CS229A (Applied Machine Learning), which is obviously different from CS229 (Machine Learning). You can see http://stanford.ml-class.org/ which redirect you to a login page for real Stanford students. I would agree though that CS229A is a dumbed down version of CS229.

  6. Re:Well, how about reading up on it first? by Azureflare · · Score: 3, Informative

    Registration for the current AI course is closed, but I'm sure they'll be running it again. Also you can see the lectures on youtube.

  7. Credit by Niris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now I just wish they'd find a way to make it possible to receive credit in those courses. Would be great to substitute one of the lower core CSCI courses with an online version from Stanford.

    1. Re:Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can receive credit. Look into Stanford Center for Professional Development @ http://scpd.stanford.edu/.

      NOTE: This cost 4k+ per 4 unit course.

    2. Re:Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They *must* be **nutz** to pay so much!

    3. Re:Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but you have to install Silverlight..

    4. Re:Credit by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what "credit" you want to receive. Presumably it's to be able to add to your resume to improve your job prospects.
      As an employer, I would be extremely impressed by a candidate who put together a self-defined, free, online "degree program" and executed it, with proof.

      Calculate the number of hours of "classroom" and "study time" necessary for a degree of your choice. Then proceed to "take each course" by watching the videos, and logging the date and time you watched the video. Also log all the website articles (or books) read, in the study of the particular topic of that course. Then record a video of you explaining the topics in great detail, one "chapter of study at a time" as your final exam.

      Creating your own "self-study" degree program would look something like this (for a Bachelor's Degree equivalent):

      - First, create a list of about 35 courses that you plan to study exhaustively. You could easily create this list by looking at the graduation requirements of any major university.
      - Each course would consist of watching about 60 hours of watching relevant online videos of your choice (analogous to classroom training) and another 100 hours of reading webpages, books, IRC with experts, doing problems, writing code or papers, etc. This amount would be roughly the same as a 4-semester-hour course (although I'd contend that it would likely be far more valuable!) At the end, create a Private YouTube video where you present and explain in detail everything that you learned in that course, and demonstrate mastery in the video. Bonus points if you make it public.

      Think about that! A candidate with that sort of initiative and financial sense would be GREAT for my business. Even if you did this for several courses (but not a full degree program), it would show the discipline and creativeness that I would look for in a candidate. Nearly anyone can sit in a classroom for four years and get the piece of paper, but it takes a special person to have the drive and initiative to create their own degree.

  8. high edu should not be a piece of paper to get a j by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    high edu should not be a piece of paper to get a job and even then lot's of IT jobs need more hands on learning and less class room theory!

  9. I'm confused. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I can't find the P.E. or the basket weaving courses anywhere.

    1. Re:I'm confused. by alexo · · Score: 1

      I can't find the P.E. or the basket weaving courses anywhere.

      I believe the basket weaving courses are in the anthropology department.
      As for Penis Enlargement, there are lots of "courses" available on the Internet.

  10. A step on the good direction. by Ardyvee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I believe this will be helpful for many that are willing to learn but can't go to a university (for a variety of reasons). Teenagers that want to go ahead and learn more and faster than what their high-school teaches them will be able to do so, at a low cost. Those who simply want to expand their knowledge will also be able to do so at a low cost and in a flexible time.

    --
    I don't care if I'm wrong. I only care about everyone obtaining something from the discussion.
    1. Re:A step on the good direction. by digsbo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I twisted my office mate's arm to take the Database course. He's a web designer with a print layout background, and has been trying to get into programming to expand career options (he's maxed out as a designer).

      The class has been hugely challenging and rewarding for him - he's not had math above Algebra II before, and that was over 30 years ago, so it's hard, but he is starting to truly understand SQL instead of just guessing, and he's understanding the concepts of abstract types, formal grammars, and so on.

      Really a tremendous improvement over the video lectures and static course materials offered from other online courses. The quizzes and interactive exercises are superb. I can't say enough about the class, and will be bashing his head in to take the intro to CS class.

    2. Re:A step on the good direction. by gajop · · Score: 1

      It's more than that I believe. I'm currently enrolled at a masters degree level at the university, having 5 classes to do with AI (data mining, neural networks, fuzzy systems, semantic web and genetic algorithms), having also completed "basics of AI" undergraduate course.

      However, I'm still taking both Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence Stanford classes, because they tend to focus on things we aren't doing much (and vice versa). Admittedly, I mostly dropped Artificial Intelligence since I own and read the book, and since the class doesn't feel worth the time with so many calculations going on (the probability part requires you to spend 50% of time doing calculations, which isn't hard, but just takes time -> it should be a part of Probability 101 not Intro to AI).

      The Machine Learning class is amazing though, in particular the extra insight professor Ng gives when describing algorithms and their usage, as well as the great learning system (review questions and most importantly programming tasks). Also Machine Learning tends to focus on giving you actual knowledge, rather than trying to test you accurately - good tests that rank students are important for classic studies where diplomas and thus scores are the end goal, which is not the case of online courses, which should be about learning.

  11. Transfer Credit by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

    Has anyone had any success using these for course credit at another university?

    1. Re:Transfer Credit by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Nobody's actually finished a class yet (they only started doing it this quarter, which isn't over until December -- the two classes with midterms just had them last week). Presumably, one would need to actually have received the certificate of completion before trying to use it to obtain credit.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:Transfer Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      From the AI class:
      Certification with Prof. Wolfram Burgard at the University of Freiburg
      Irvin
      - 11 days ago

      An amazing opportunity to take the midterm and exam at the University of Freiburg and receive a certificate from Professor Wolfram Burgard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfram_Burgard is now available. From their site http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~burgard/ai_exams/: If you will pass the exams, you will get a certificate (in German: Schein) signed by Prof. Wolfram Burgard that you have passed the exam of the course and that this is equivalent to the AI course at the Department of Computer Science of the University of Freiburg. Typically, German and many international Universities accept such a certificate. If you would like to take part in the exams at the University of Freiburg, please write an e-mail to Prof. Dr. Burgard with the subject "Stanford AI Course Exam Registration" to enroll: burgard@informatik.uni-freiburg.de Visit http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~burgard/ai_exams/ for more details.

      (Ed: You had to travel to Germany to take the exam to get the certificate. No such opportunity presented itself with the other two classes.)

    3. Re:Transfer Credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ai class exams can be taken at universities in Freiburg and Munich and then you get an official certificate. Apparently there are other German universities that recognize the online class for credit.

  12. 100,000? by Tasha26 · · Score: 2

    I submitted some of the homeworks close to the deadline hour and even then the Youtube videos registered at most 3000 views and am guessing the average is 2000 views.

    1. Re:100,000? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      If you view the video from AI-class.com, does it get counted on YouTube?

      (And I didn't think the videos allowed answering the homework/quiz questions when viewed on YouTube anyway...)

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:100,000? by Tasha26 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's just like posting a Youtube video in Facebook or embedding it in a blog. Those views get counted too. Also the more ambiguous the video, the higher is its view count!

    3. Re:100,000? by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also the more ambiguous the video, the higher is its view count!

      LOL! That's a great observation; I hope they use that to help evaluate their lecture quality.

      Now, here's a question: is the view count heuristic admissible? ; )

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:100,000? by nzhavok · · Score: 1

      I noticed that too. The later midterm questions for AI had < 1000 views, so I can't see how they would come close to this number.

      The DB class midterm stats showed about 9k students had sat it at 2:25, I suppose there may have been a lot more enrolled in the "basic" stream.

      --

      He who defends everything, defends nothing. -- Fredrick The Great
    5. Re:100,000? by ElKry · · Score: 1

      It is, as it never overestimates the real cost.

    6. Re:100,000? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Youtube videos registered at most 3000 views

      As discussed on aiqus, the YouTube video counts are likely very low: 40,000 users completed the first four homework assignments. One commenter claims that YouTube doesn't count embedded videos that are set to play automatically, as the class site does.

    7. Re:100,000? by Tasha26 · · Score: 1

      Here's is what I vaguely remember about auto-play. It still counts views but it is not as straightforward as a human user hitting the play button (this WILL increment the view count). If a video is on auto-play, then the "flash player" will count the view if there are user interactions (such as pausing) or if the video is watched in full. More weird is when the view count can be counted as a fraction and the count will be updated at a later date (24-48h). I know all this sound fuzzy but I found it fun that so little is known about Youtube's view counting techniques. They obviously don't want click-bots (from East Asia mostly) rigging the trending/featured/recommendation algorithms or creating a market for "Pay X and get 10K views."

  13. entrepreneurship classes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These might also be of interest:
    http://www.venture-class.org/
    http://www.launchpad-class.org/

    There's also a Civ E and a EE class.

  14. Harvard's History Courses by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1, Troll

    I taught myself CS better than Stanford teaches, and I expect many others can do so, too.

    What I can't do myself is teach myself history as well as it's taught by Harvard to the people who go out and run the world. When does that go online? And not some faked version for the masses - the same version that Harvard grads learned and were graded on.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Harvard's History Courses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Teaching Company sells DVDs and audio CDs of various star lecturers from campuses across the country. No assignments or tests, just lectures. They have a rotating sale policy so that in practical terms, their customers are only expected to buy items on sale, at prices which work out to about $3/hr for audio and $5/hr for video lectures. Some of the courses are quite good - to start out, I would recommend any of Kenneth Harl's courses on ancient and medieval Greece/Rome/Asia Minor.

      Yeah, they're not free, but still quite a bargain compared to registering for a course at a local university - and there's no commuting hassle.

    2. Re:Harvard's History Courses by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2

      That does sound good.

      But I'm not talking about the quality of the lecturer, though Harvard has that, too. I'm talking about the different facts they teach the ruling class as they come of age.

      I know Harvard grads, and I know they learned a different history that is taught elsewhere. Even outside the Skull and Bones colloquia (and I know S&B members, too, and I'm not kidding).

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  15. Best place to get info FAST by gislifb · · Score: 2

    IRC!
    If I'm totally lost on some problem I open IRC (freenode-server) and usually it takes less than 15 minutes to get an answer and a solution.

    --
    In a world without fences and walls, who needs gates and windows?
    1. Re:Best place to get info FAST by Jeheto · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I will look into this.

  16. $13K per year for public college/university by perpenso · · Score: 1

    From utexas.edu:

    Estimated Total Cost of Undergraduate Education (Fall 2010 - Spring 2011) Texas resident on-campus $23,596 - 24,936 Texas resident off-campus $23,734 - 25,074 Non-resident on-campus $35,776 - 45,960 Non-resident off-campus $35,914 - 46,098

    This is a tax-supported state school, although probably one of the more expensive ones.

    "In 2011-12, public four-year colleges charge, on average, $8,244 in tuition and fees for in-state students. The average surcharge for full-time out-of-state students at these institutions is $12,526. Private nonprofit four-year colleges charge, on average, $28,500 per year in tuition and fees."
    http://www.collegeboard.com/student/pay/add-it-up/4494.html

    I can't find the link right now but when room and board is considered I believe the average cost of a 4-year college or university is $13 per year.

    1. Re:$13K per year for public college/university by blueturffan · · Score: 1

      I can't find the link right now but when room and board is considered I believe the average cost of a 4-year college or university is $13 per year.

      13 bucks? Dang...I overpaid.

    2. Re:$13K per year for public college/university by Sulphur · · Score: 2

      I can't find the link right now but when room and board is considered I believe the average cost of a 4-year college or university is $13 per year.

      13 bucks? Dang...I overpaid.

      They left out the coffee breaks.

    3. Re:$13K per year for public college/university by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit there are a whole lot of things I'd study for the hell of it if I could get away with it for $13.

  17. All degree holders are employable by perpenso · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Of course, it's hard to feel bed for someone who can't get a job based on their BA degree in 'History', or 'art lit'. Seriously, their great programs, but how many time have you seen 'History' major wanted listed on craigslist?

    All degree holders are employable, just not necessarily in their fields of study. I once sat in on a presentation named something like careers for history majors. Basically the speaker said that many jobs require a 4-year degree, any degree will do. Typically these are entry level managements jobs.

    Keep in mind that while a degree demonstrates some level of knowledge in a particular field, it also demonstrates the ability to complete a long, boring and bureaucratic process. There is value in the later.

    1. Re:All degree holders are employable by scottbomb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think it's just an easy way for the HR people to say, "Yep, Sally can read, write, and do basic math. We know because she has a college degree." It's a hell of a lot easier than testing everyone who applies. Thanks to the modern public school system using "social promotion" and graduating everyone who doesn't drop out, employers have no idea who they're looking at when you walk in the door. Years ago, a high school diploma actually meant something. Nowadays, in the spirit of "inclusiveness" and self-esteem-masturbation, the standards have fallen far from where they were, say, 50 years ago. If you need proof, try reading a book written in the 1800s. The grammar and vocabulary was far more complex. What we now call "college-level reading" was 6th-grade material back then.

    2. Re:All degree holders are employable by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Employers also get a huge number of applicants. Quickly reducing that number by simple filtering-- degree, certs, etc-- narrows the list quite a bit.

    3. Re:All degree holders are employable by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      If you need proof, try reading a book written in the 1800s.

      Several problems with that. Firstly, books were much more expensive to print, which acted on a filter on quality. Secondly, less well educated people simply couldn't read. Thirdly, and most importantly by a very long way:

      All the completely crap books from the 1800s have ended up in the obscurity they deserve, whereas you can see the crap books from late 2011 on the bookshelves right now.

      Time is an amazing filter of quality.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:All degree holders are employable by FrootLoops · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the standards have fallen far from where they were, say, 50 years ago. If you need proof, try reading a book written in the 1800s.

      Actually, you may have provided some proof yourself by implying that content in a 200-year-old book proves that standards have fallen in the last 50 years--unless you're in your seventies, I suppose.

      In all seriousness, though, I would like to see some proof that educational standards have dropped in the last 50 years

      I somewhat agree with your point about material from centuries ago, though it seems to me that rote memorization was much more common in the past. Many of the questions on this purported "8th Grade Examination from late 1800's" are superficially impressive, but really amount to rather useless memorization:

      Give the epochs into which U. S. History is divided.
      Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall & Orinoco.

      The arithmetic section I linked mostly consists of unit conversions, which are again superficially impressive. In 8th grade my classmates were covering conic sections, which are less "mechanical" than plugging numbers in to conversion formulas, and I would say they're more difficult. Oddly enough, in this UPenn catalog from 1852, conic sections were a junior level (in college) topic. To be fair, that catalog also lists basic calculus (I imagine the equivalent of Calc 1 and 2) in addition to a dizzying number of topics on history, philosophy, Greek, Latin, "natural philosophy", and chemistry.

      Today, there's just far too much information to absorb. Learning how to understand things quickly as they come up is more important than memorizing small chunks of human knowledge, even if it's less impressive. Perhaps students in the past were more studious as well, though things aren't all bad.

    5. Re:All degree holders are employable by Xest · · Score: 1

      "Keep in mind that while a degree demonstrates some level of knowledge in a particular field, it also demonstrates the ability to complete a long, boring and bureaucratic process. There is value in the later."

      But anyone is capable of this, seriously.

      When the subject matter just requires you to be able to sit through a bunch of monotonous crap and just remember things then I don't think there really are many people who can't do this. There are a lot of students that go to uni purely for the lifestyle, and to avoid going straight into employment. They don't do it for care of learning or career prospects.

      So the question is this, why would you want to employ a history major who did a 4 year degree, quite possibly just because they were too lazy to do a proper job and wanted a few years of drinking and getting high when you could instead have someone who knew uni wasn't really of much worth to them and went straight to work and has 4 years of experience in the field of business in question?

      I actually worked full time whilst doing a second degree and have little sympathy for the idea that a degree demonstrates that you're capable of doing 4 years of hard work - it doesn't, it's something you can complete succesfully in your spare time. If the subject matter is worthless to industry coupled with the fact that a single degree doesn't require the same weekly time investment of a full time job (when I did my maths degree I was working around 40 hours a week, and studying around 30 hours a week) then I have a hard time understanding what of use such degrees do actually provide. I'd still rather take the person whose worked in the industry providing they can demonstrate they at least turned up on time and are somewhat competent - the fresh graduate doesn't even have any way of demonstrating that however, it's a gamble - so why employ them? Unless they're doing two degrees at once then they can't realistically demonstrate any useful trait gained from their last 4 years.

      If you're going to do a degree, then do it in a subject of worth to industry, ideally an industry you actually want to go into. Otherwise don't waste your time and the time of industry, go straight to work and work your way up. If you're good at what you do then you'll get where you want to go either way. Constantly being able to perform well above your actual job spec and maintaining that as you're career grows, however you do it is really the key to advancing above all else. If you're performing well above your station and can demonstrate it to prospective employers then no one will give a fuck if you have a degree or not.

      The real problem is the people who think they're _entitled_ to a job, simply because they have a degree in art history or whatever.

      One side note is that yes, blah blah, I know HR will filter you out if you don't have a degree blah blah blah - bollocks. I've seen hardly any companies that actually do this and those that do aren't worth working for anyway. If your CV is well written to demonstrate your achievements and your achievements are of significant note because you have performed well above your previous post to a level suitable for your next post then you'll find no shortage of interviews, degree or not, and if you can back it up in the interview then the offers will follow to boot.

    6. Re:All degree holders are employable by epine · · Score: 1

      But anyone is capable of this, seriously.

      Sure, any mature person basic literacy skills and an orderly life not overly afflicted with unique circumstance (the strange prevalence of rare illness in the long tail of evolutionary ferment). Other small advantages: ability to cope with independence, knowing what you want, a realistic model of your strengths/weaknesses, social hostility running from inetd rather than a daemon service, financial means to choose the right institution and setting, a learning style that suits teaching to test, and stalwart cynicism towards institutional bullshit.

      How the piece of paper gets used in greater society is a whole 'nother sphere of dysfunction.

      As you say, the top quintile can just show up with a tidy CV and good self-presentation and talk themselves into a job. A quarter of what remains can navigate success on a track record of work ethic and contribution. A remaining third lands employment on the basis of insecurity: willingness to be underpaid and overworked and never call in sick. Half of what remains are willing to battle with physical hardship: hard construction, working up in Fort McMurry. The remaining quintile is the feeder tranche for the growth industry of the for-profit American prison system. Society has no idea how to productively use these people, so we decided to monetize (tough on crime sells to all levels: the bottom of the totem pole is always keen on a new subbasement of even greater pillory).

      I've listened to OCW lectures across a number of fields, most recently Paul Bloom's introductory psychology class at Princeton (he's great, but I knew 90% of his material already--the world of TED talkable ideas is highly incestuous). A fairly decent lecture on game theory spent half an hour working some basic algebra after laying out the payoff matrix topology. When you are younger, rolling up your sleeves to work some examples in gory detail is a great learning experience, it anchors all the blather to the real world. Insight is hollow if you don't know how to do the work. As you get older, you're far happier to declare "and the rest is algebra" and move on to the next subject; you've gotten over the notion that you can be good at everything in detail simultaneously (for CS people "and the rest is syntax" so long as you don't have to write Python, and R, and C++ and VHDL all in the same week).

      That youthful feeling of life as an all-you-can-eat intellectual buffet of mastery over detail is quickly cured by one course in organic chemistry, or less swiftly by a four year program in economics.

    7. Re:All degree holders are employable by epine · · Score: 1

      Clarification: Bloom does not teach game theory; I skipped to a different experience.

    8. Re:All degree holders are employable by perpenso · · Score: 1

      "Keep in mind that while a degree demonstrates some level of knowledge in a particular field, it also demonstrates the ability to complete a long, boring and bureaucratic process. There is value in the later."

      But anyone is capable of this, seriously.

      However some people have a hard time finishing what they start, even very gifted people. The key word in the earlier post is "complete". The college grad demonstrated the ability to finish what they start.

      There are a lot of students that go to uni purely for the lifestyle, and to avoid going straight into employment.

      Well in that case the grad has demonstrated the ability to find some balance between work and partying to the extent that they can perform to some minimum expected standard on the "work" side of life. That can also be of value to an employer. Its not like people who love to party stop because they get a job, either the high school grad or the college grad. :-)

      I actually worked full time whilst doing a second degree ...

      You are preaching to the choir. Through undergrad and two graduate degrees I worked, and graduated debt free with real world experience (the later also provided a useful filter to evaluate what was being taught in lectures). To be clear I am not advocating requiring a degree, just suggesting that there are rational motivations.

    9. Re:All degree holders are employable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a load of crap. I worked at a business where everyone had at least one PhD and there were several morons there who could design the worst software imaginable. I've met 13 year-olds I'd happily work with. Generally corporations are looking for grunts who will keep their heads down, their mouths shut and churn out code. I ran into someone I had been in a machine language programming course with. She had gotten an A and could not remember anything about the class, not the instructor, not the content and not really even the subject. College was like an eating disorder, stuff yourself before the exam and then puke it all out. It's what between your ears! But who cares - I'm out of that B.S. now. I was in a company once and walked with a co-worker to the refrigerator about 10 PM to see what there was to be had. "No beer" he said, "Time to find a new start-up."

      "See, the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna staht doin some thinkin on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certaintees in life. One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin education you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at the public library." - Good Will Hunting

    10. Re:All degree holders are employable by tqk · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that while a degree demonstrates some level of knowledge in a particular field, it also demonstrates the ability to complete a long, boring and bureaucratic process. There is value in the [latter].

      But anyone is capable of this, seriously.

      Not true. Boredom and stifling bureaucracy has hounded me all my life. I can't stand sitting in a lecture hall where the speaker's putting me to sleep. I far prefer to slide out to the library, or arts & crafts, or anything where I'd actually learn something of some value.

      A degree can also go some way to prove that the holder of it is partially an over-civilized sheep, one who can put up with pretty much anything and not complain. I seldom consider that kind of thinking virtuous. The situation won't improve when everyone just ignores the warts. It can improve if we refuse to put up with them.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    11. Re:All degree holders are employable by Xest · · Score: 1

      "Not true. Boredom and stifling bureaucracy has hounded me all my life. I can't stand sitting in a lecture hall where the speaker's putting me to sleep. I far prefer to slide out to the library, or arts & crafts, or anything where I'd actually learn something of some value."

      Yes but the point is you can still pass a degree by doing just that. I passed some courses with distinction without attending a single lecture, they weren't mandatory where I did one of my degrees, as long as you could keep up the grades.

      Nowadays it's even easier, you can often download the lectures and watch them in whatever size chunks you prefer and whereever you want.

    12. Re:All degree holders are employable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I definitely know that Americans today don't know this one:

      "Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each."

      As European, I know it by experience. It's good already if they can tell Paris from Helsinki.

  18. crypto class link is broken by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

    The link to the crypto class sends you to www.cs101-class.org. You have to guess the real url, www.crypto-class.org.

    1. Re:crypto class link is broken by GenSolo · · Score: 1

      There is also a link at the bottom of the cs101 page that takes you to the real crypto class page.

    2. Re:crypto class link is broken by slinches · · Score: 1

      Are you sure the link is broken? Maybe it's the first lesson; security by obscurity doesn't work.

      --
      Knowledge Brings Fear
    3. Re:crypto class link is broken by mikejuk · · Score: 1

      Yes it was the test you had to pass to get into the class... but now you have blown it by going public it has been corrected!

  19. Yup, and more... QM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, this is way better than being in a lecture hall, trying to learn on a schedule. I have been watching Leonard Susskind's lectures on Quantum Mechanics. I found I needed to review a few things, then decided to drop back to the Quantum Entanglements class first. Grabbed a notebook, and now I have about 10 pages of notes on that.

    Rewind and pause are amazing. As is the ability to use my android to watch the lectures on the bus, going back and forth to work.

  20. The irony by scottbomb · · Score: 1

    Schools practically invented the internet, yet they seem to be the last ones to embrace it for actually teaching students. With today's technology, an entire class should be able to interact with an instructor in completely online sessions. Imagine going to school without having to leave the house. Some schools (like U of Phoenix) offer degrees but for only a very few majors. And then they get ridiculed for not being "a real school". WTF?

  21. Tips for Stanford - redo for online by cliffjumper222 · · Score: 1

    I just watched a number of the course previews for a variety of the online professional development courses from Stanford as I was seriously thinking about doing one of their certificates. I also checked out ClassX, which has some classes on it. I'm having second thoughts because I fear I'll be bored to death by the experience. I've been out of university almost 20 years, but it's clear that they haven't changed much and the flow of information from instructor to student is agonizingly slow. Maybe I'm spoiled, but these lectures are essentially academic death-by-powerpoint experiences or even worse, death-by-writing ... very .... slowly ... on ... the board experiences. Just taking a Standford (or any other) lecture, slapping it on the web and putting even a fancy control UI like ClassX has is just not good enough. I think the courses have to be completely redone with online learning in mind. And if they were really well done, then I'd bet lectures would end up being the *last* place you'd want to go to for the course.

    Here's some tips for improving on the online UI experience (for Stanford people if they read this):

    1. Add a Skip Forward 30s/Back 10s control, because the instructor often dithers around on non-educational topics.(Copy Tivo/Dish/etc.)
    2. Enable the video to be viewed faster than real time. I can easily process 2x speech or higher and the instructors often speak slowly. There's no need to force onliners to listen at 1:1. (Like Livescribe Pen desktop playback or software DVD players)
    3. Have the instructor repeat the comment/question from the audience for the microphone - it's a classic problem, but they need to do it.
    4. Add in chapters for each topic - this will enable us to skip to the next point/slide should the instructor belabor the point - okay I get it! (Livescribe pen / available on some ClassX content)
    5. A number of times, the instructors mentioned how questions couldn't be asked by the online participants, but this isn't true. If the video is surrounded with a forum UI then viewers will easily be able to ask questions and a TA or the Professor can answer later - or other students could. (Like Hulu/YouTube/etc) Partially implemented.
    6. Allow bookmarking/resume on the videos because it'd be really useful (like BBC iPlayer/Hulu)

    Maybe Stanford's real online system has these functions, but if not, they should. Based on the cost of the courses, you'd think they could have a decent system banged out pronto.

    Cliff

    1. Re:Tips for Stanford - redo for online by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I actually agree.... but... I think this is a great first step. This is new territory for them, and putting normal lectures to video is an easy way to start, that costs almost nothing.

      It is slow, I get you. I have been watching some of their "continuing ed" classes, Quantum Entanglements and Quantum Mechanics. Great stuff, but its even slower than normal undergrad.

      Anyway, yah, taped lectures kinda suck, but, at least there is pause, forward, rewind, and can be rewatched later, and can be watched on my schedule. Hell, I can marathon through 2 of them if I have time and energy for it... or just do half and come back later....

      I don't know about any class interface or any of that, not looking for a degree or anything, so I have just been watching on youtube.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    2. Re:Tips for Stanford - redo for online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ML class has 1.2x and 1.5x buttons. In all classes you can download the videos and watch them in your player of choice (AI class is on Youtube but I hope I don't have to explain on /. how to download from there). Only the quizzes and tests have to be taken online.

      But yes, accessibility is a problem as the web interfaces are based on a poorly accessible, dying technology (Adobe Flash) and where they use HTML the functionality is reduced. Someone at Stanford needs to take a Web 101 class.

      ad 3. There are no comments/questions from a campus audience. The video lectures in the online classes aren't filmed campus classes. The only audience is the online audience. Direct online feedback would overwhelm the profs, but there are official or semiofficial discussion forums, linked from the videos, where most questions are answered by fellow students, and the most popular student questions are answered by the profs.

  22. Too bad the courses are crap by Noughmad · · Score: 2

    I am a physics student, so none of this is directly my field. But we have a lot of computer-related courses here, so I decided to improve upon them and started watching Machine Learning. The videos were interesting, although their level was more suitable for high school, but I thought that's just for the intros.

    Then the first assignment came. I wrote a blog post comparing this course with another one at my university (of Ljubljana, Slovenia). Basically, the assignment from Stanford was 15 pages of instructions to write four lines of code. Yes, you read that right: all the framework code was there, all I had to do was write a linear function in Octave. On the other hand, Slovene physics student are expected to produce all their own code, and around 10 pages of reports with graphs and formulas, every week. And we only get one page of instructions, specifying only the problem, and leaving the tool and the solutions to the students. Both assignments are linked to in the blog post.

    Seeing the course takes too much time to read through and doesn't teach me anything, I quit after the second assignment. Maybe it got harder since then, but I didn't really have time to check.

    --
    PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    1. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      I don't know about the course, however when I did my degree, the courses tended to start out easy for the first few lectures/wuestions, then ramp up very quickly to being very hard. I would wait a bit before deciding to abandon the course.

      Also, courses are not always interleaved perfectly. Despite the course being designed as a coherent whole, the lecturer for a course on one topic may pitch it under the ending level for a course on a prerequisite (e.g. maths).

      BTW: to me, producing 10 pages of reports per week sounds kinda like busy work, unless the course is on report writing.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty unfair (and sloppy) comparison. These are introductory CS courses which, as a rule, are quite low-level, so they're accessible to many people from different majors. Your Model Analysis course presumably builds upon several years of other courses--at least, I would be quite impressed if the necessary calculus and Lagrangian mechanics were taught in standard high schools. By that point you expect more from students, and almost no non-physics majors would have the background to take the course, so there's much less hand-holding. In any case, before you pass judgement on the quality of American physics programs in general, as you do in your blog post, you should at least read through some course requirements from actual physics programs and look at some problem sets.

      To be completely honest, I hope your reasoning in physics is better than the reasoning you've written here. It stinks of confirmation bias and rationalization. Perhaps Slovenian universities really give a better education, but you haven't presented even remotely convincing evidence for that conclusion. The low quality of your reasoning gives the opposite impression, though of course it's just one data point.

    3. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by zugedneb · · Score: 1

      no, he is right in his analysis. Stanford university should not denigrate it's own name with "introductory CS courses which, as a rule, are quite low-level"... if u want a gentle introduction to some shit or other, get hold of a "some shit or other for dummies" at amazon, do not go to stanford... if a well known university is allowed to sink to this level of craptacularity, then, truly, american education has lost its honor...

    4. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      So it denigrates Stanford's name that they are willing to offer lower level courses to teach people who don't have the background for higher level courses? That is probably the most asinine thing I have read this morning.

      Universities have many programs, aimed at people of different backgrounds. Their mission is to teach, not to "look good". Offering low level courses, that bring people in slower are not a substitute for high level courses. It is to their credit that they offer such courses, rather than sticking their nose up in the air and saying "call us when you get done with community college".

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    5. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by zugedneb · · Score: 1

      as i said: if u want a gentle introduction to some shit or other, get hold of a "some shit or other for dummies" at amazon, do not go to stanford... what part of this do u not understand?

    6. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by melted · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's why there are so many Nobel prize winners from Slovenia. Because your education system is superior.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Slovenian_Nobel_laureates

      That guy's name doesn't sound too Slovenian to me. Oh, that's right, that's because he was born and educated in Austria!

      It's like in any other field: it's not what you have, it's what you do with it. There's very little that's new for me in ML class, but I'm taking it anyway as a refresher. It's been years since I've done anything ML related, and it's an easy going intro course so that I don't have to doze off reading Duda & Hart again. I'm also applying things at a more advanced level outside of the class (while teaching my kid how to program, and what computers can do if you know your shit).

      For the reference, I have never studied in the US, and I graduated with MSc in CS/EE with honors from the most hardcore school in my home country. If I could go back and trade our super-advanced (well, for its time) ML course for what Prof. Ng is teaching, I would do that in a heartbeat. This is some extremely practical stuff, and he handholds folks through applying it correctly and points out the gotchas. That's exactly what most non-scientists need. No one stops you from going deeper into things on your own.

    7. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      How can you get through life reasoning as poorly as you have here? Your point and the OP's are orthogonal. The OP never said anything about Stanford denigrating its name, only you did. The OP inferred (incorrectly) that since Stanford offers an easy CS course online, American physics education is poor: "I’m definitely glad I stayed at home, where I will receive a proper education, even though it’s not a prestigious [one]." My post refuted this ridiculous line of reasoning.

      If you truly believe "he is right in his analysis", I will simply call you an idiot and move along. However, I imagine you just meant to agree with his negative assessment of the courses rather than any specific point he put forth. The question you nearly ask, "why is this good for Stanford?", is an important one that I haven't seen addressed. Right now it gets them some publicity, I suppose, which ultimately nets applicants, prestige, and donations. What does the future hold, though? If every undergraduate could take half their courses online for free while still getting a high-quality education, academia (including Stanford) would shrink.

      As for your random (..."craptacular"...) point about American education losing its honor (whatever that means) because a well-known university is offering low-level intro CS courses, it's not just Stanford. An intro CS course is a requirement for all majors at many highly technical schools because it's so useful to so many fields.

    8. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by Noughmad · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what most non-scientists need.

      Yes, maybe it is. But I thought that people going to those classes want to be scientists. Apparently I was wrong, but I don't know if that's true of the real Stanford program as well. I don't care much for people holding my hands while telling me exactly what to do.

      And no, I'm not trying to say our education was superior, as it has plenty of problems. For me, the best way to learn is still reading by myself.

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    9. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I fully understand what YOU are saying.... the problem is, you don't speak for um... Standford. Stanford says they want to offer those classes. What part of this do YOU not understand?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    10. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by melted · · Score: 1

      A couple of things I'd like to see as a follow-up from these guys:

      1. More advanced courses. Perhaps even non-trivial project suggestions for folks to try out, with practical advice on how to solve issues. I mean, it would be pretty cool to apply some of the techniques to NLP, pattern recognition and so on. I've done this myself in the past (I've worked in MS Research for a while), but for most folks the barrier to entry will be insurmountable without help.
      2. Do a post-mortem on what went well and what sucked (in particular in AI Class, some parts of which really strain human intelligence with ambiguity, lack of practical consideration, and poor explanations), and fix the parts that sucked before the course is re-run. Do this iteratively after each re-run until things are so good, there's nothing to change anymore.

      Frankly, I think this is the future of education. It is simply not practical to have a fan-out of a few hundred people for each course for one simple reason: you never know who's a genius and who's not. Giving a starting material to more people will hopefully uncover more folks capable of making progress in the field, even though these classes are rather pedestrian. The missing piece of the puzzle are free textbooks. Combine free (preferably electronic) textbooks, free video lectures and automatic homework grading, and you've got something that will grab people's attention for the entire semester (which neither straight up lectures, nor books alone manage to do).

      Another thing this does is it levels the playing field between folks who can pay for Stanford education and those who can not. Not completely, not by any stretch, but you don't really need to be a genius to apply a lot of this stuff. Fairly basic calculus and linear algebra is quite sufficient. You do need to be somewhat more of a genius to invent new stuff in this field, though. :-)

    11. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      It would be interesting to hear how more advanced versions of such a course might go. Grading must be automated to handle the volume they talk about, and as difficulty ramps up, grading gets harder. I also wonder if this is the wave of the future--in particular, if extremely polished, low-man-power online courses will start to replace massive intro undergraduate courses. It just seems too efficient to pass up.

      Also, a minor point: Stanford actually has excellent financial aid packages. If you can get in, you really should be able to pay for it (possibly with loans, but not unreasonable amounts for a Stanford graduate). See the last paragraph in this section of the Wikipedia article for some details. They have an obscenely large endowment, which helps.

    12. Re:Too bad the courses are crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Andrew Ng is a brilliant fellow, if perhaps not the greatest teacher, and I give him huge credit for working to make SEE happen. His course content is actually decent - did you look at the syllabus as well as all of the assignments and exams?

      If you know the material already, then the course is not for you, but that doesn't make it "crap."

      Did you look at any other courses?

  23. the AI class was/is terrible by Spiked_Three · · Score: 2

    I quit after the first week.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/aiclass/comments/lm6c8/suggestion_for_the_teachers_teach_the_method_then/
    The teachers may be brilliant in their field, but they suck as educators.

    --
    slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
    1. Re:the AI class was/is terrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I totally disagree. I think they have done a fantastic job in making a complex subject matter approachable to a wide audience. I have a EE degree from a top 20 university in the world, and this course is one of the best I've ever taken. Here are some comments from students on reddit who received their midterm grade http://www.reddit.com/r/aiclass/comments/mks89/midterm_is_over_what_score_did_you_get/ . A lot of people did well, and that speaks volumes about the teaching skills of the professors.

  24. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by FrootLoops · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I find it a little ironic that your error-ridden post advocates less classroom theory. "lot's" doesn't mean anything and should be "lots"; it's "hands-on", not "hands on"; it's "classroom", not "class room"; and your statement should really be two sentences, rather than one with two halves smashed together with an "and" thrown between.

    (To be clear, I'm not judging the content of your post--I don't have enough experience with IT education to pass judgement--I'm just commenting on its irony.)

  25. they are still giving what i do not want by zugedneb · · Score: 1

    i want an exam, and only, the exam to a certificate... no professors, no lectures, no homework, just a test... if i pass this, then they may charge me to prove my worth with practical things in the labs... and then some more certificates... like redhat, for example...

    1. Re:they are still giving what i do not want by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      Western Governor's University basically does this, in that they rely on you taking & passing industry-standard certification tests in order to progress in their IT fields. However, there are a number of other "normal" classes with papers and whatnot to submit. They're properly accredited and will get you a real bachelor's degree, but they're generally thought of as a degree mill.

  26. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by somersault · · Score: 3

    I liked the guy commenting on the usefulness of PhDs the other day using "then" instead of "than". Actually, I hated that, but I liked the irony.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  27. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by Terrasque · · Score: 2

    I find it a little ironic that your smug-ridden post entirely fail to understand what the post you replied to were saying.

    First off, I would point out that "lot's" does indeed mean something, in this case it's of course a shorthand for "parking lot's" - which clearly shows that the author meant that today's education lacked enough knowledge and experience to fill several parking lot's.

    Further on, the gentleman was unambigiously also requesting a more educational focus on Hands-on computing, which is, regrettably, sorely lacking in today's cold society.

    And last, but surely not least, with "class room theory" he was directly referring to the fact that today's students learn these newfangled "class based" langages, like for example Java and C#. It's quite clear he requests some real languages to be taught instead, like Assembly, C, Fortran and Perl.

    So there you have it, old chap. Quite an embaressing failure on your part there, I'd say. You are indeed lucky to have such wonderful people like me to highlight and educate you in your errors.

    --
    It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
  28. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by gstoddart · · Score: 2

    First off, I would point out that "lot's" does indeed mean something, in this case it's of course a shorthand for "parking lot's" - which clearly shows that the author meant that today's education lacked enough knowledge and experience to fill several parking lot's.

    From a purely grammatical point, "lots" would be the plural of "lot", so the second half of that statement is kind of amusing.

    The word "lot's" would have to be possessive ("that lot's grade runs downhill and to the left") or contractive ("that lot's for sale") .

    Plurals aren't done with " 's ".

    Sorry, but "parking lot's" as you've described it isn't valid usage.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  29. How to subscribe? by aprdm · · Score: 1

    Hey i tried to subscribe but i didnt recieve any confirmation e-mail or anything.. just filled my name & e-mail on their website

  30. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why aren't you using the Oxford comma?

  31. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ahh Slashdot... one of the few places left on the internet I can count on to find people who care about proper grammar. :-)

    Keep fighting the good fight, my comrades!

  32. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

    "lot's" doesn't mean anything

    Sure it does:

    Lot's a word I use a lot.

    Makes perfect grammatical sense.

    --
    "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  33. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

    Hah, thank you for that. You've converted me--I clearly did not understand the original post.

  34. Nice resources, but somewhat easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Posting AC so as not to seem pretentious.

    I'm currently taking all three courses. Having a bit more structure than "here are some videos and PDFs of problem sets" seems to be crucial to actually making it through a course for a lot of people, myself included. Moreover, the professors involved in each course are technically prominent (I knew who Widom, Ng, Norvig, and Thrun were years before taking these) and are at least minimally pedogogically competent; they are thus ahead of a large fraction of university lecturers.

    I might criticize various aspects of how the courses are offered and operated, but the biggest problem is that they are simply far too easy. I realize Stanford has always had a reputation as an easy school (or has for the past 40 years, at least), and these courses are undoubtedly a step down from their regular on-campus equivalents, but it's subtly irritating to be in a course that's too easy. It leaves one with a dilemma: figure out what the course ought to have been, and make up for the deficiency oneself, or else risk achieving a sort of false competency, and find out just how little has been learnt when one moves on.

    I had this problem at the undistinguished state university I attended (whose classes were much, much more difficult than these online ones), and discovered that an "A" doesn't equate to mastery when I got into more difficult subjects.

    These free online courses could be greatly improved throught the addition of homework problems that take more than twenty seconds to solve, and programming exercises that have one pulling one's hair out at 1AM the night before they're due, rather than left wondering what else to add to the exercise to make it minimally interesting. Perhaps this could be done by having a (real) "advanced" track for the courses.

    Perhaps I'm out of touch with today's students, or my objectives simply do not align with those of the people offering these courses, but I feel like this was a bit of a missed opportunity. Having structured course material that is viable for independent study could be incredibly valuable; as it is, it feels a little loose and incomplete.

    1. Re:Nice resources, but somewhat easy by kayumi · · Score: 1

      I only take the database course which indeed is not difficult but so what? In any case, here is a home work exercise for you (not too difficult if you know category theory)

      Homework Exercise for AC (due Dec4)

      Develop the theory of normal form from the categorical point of view.
      1) find category theoretic definitions of the normal forms (and all relevant notions needed to express these)
      2) what advantages (if any) does the categorical point of view provide (e.g. when considering all normal forms for a given schema and given functional dependencies etc. etc.)
      3) why do so many highly intelligent people waste their time at slashdot instead of putting their superior intellect to a more beneficial use

  35. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is amazing

  36. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like how no one understands the meaning of irony.

  37. Re:high edu should not be a piece of paper to get by somersault · · Score: 1

    Including you, it seems.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  38. To the Contrary Re:Too bad the courses are crap by ShannonBrown · · Score: 1

    I adamantly disagree. I have completed the Introduction to Machine Learning lectures and course homework assignments. The class, as an INTRODUCTORY course, does an exceptional job of integrating theory and practice. The learning-by-doing methodology helps the student to apply the lecture materials. Yes, perhaps some of the INITIAL assignments appear to result in "minimal code." However, as in excellent writing, paring the assignments to four lines (or an efficient code set) requires significant editing, understanding of the concepts, and familiarity with the prototyping tool (GNU Octave in this case). Thus, the student, initially, applies not only machine learning principles but is also gaining familiarity with an initially arcane (albeit excellent) coding tool. The later assignments do offer more complex coding opportunities and do offer charting, graphing, and analysis. These courses, as is my understanding and I think made clear in the course offerings, are intended to make available exceptional instructors to a wide variety of learners--from persons with no computer science (or even high-level math) backgrounds to experienced learners with an interest in the topic. The courses act as a catalyst for further self-study (for those of us who like an introduction so we can pursue further in-depth study). Furthermore, I think it is unfair to Stanford for others to classify these classes as "Stanford courses." As the materials make clear, these are not "Stanford courses" but __parallel__ Stanford courses. No credit is offered or suggested by Stanford. Apparently, tens of thousands have signed up for these courses. I am ecstatic about future offerings as are many.

  39. CS 101, who knew?!!! But CS 106 is recommended. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, apparently there is a brand new CS 101 course, which has never existed before! Taught using Python, no less!

    I expect good things from it - Nick Parlante is a fine instructor - but I also expect that it may have a number of bugs since it appears that it's the first time that CS 101 has been taught

    Currently, CS 106(A) is the introductory course, or 105 for a non-majors/JavaScript class.
    CS 106 is great - one of the most popular classes at the school, and with good reason!

    Although much of the goodness of CS 106 comes from the support structure - notably tutorials and interactive grading with the section leaders - the lectures and assignments are definitely worthwhile. The goal of CS 106 is that anyone who a) has a pulse and b) does the work will learn the material and pass the class - an approach which I'd like to see in more introductory engineering (and science) courses. (a) is optional, actually.