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A Floating Home For Tech Start-ups
JoeMerchant writes "Max Marty, founder of Blueseed, thinks immigration laws in the U.S. make it too difficult for entrepreneurs from other countries to come to the U.S. and develop new technologies. In order to solve this, he's trying to buy a large ship he can anchor off the coast of California, in international waters, which he can then turn into a start-up incubator, fostering a 'year-long hack-a-thon.' From the article: 'With a B-1 visa, visitors can freely travel to the United States for meetings, conferences, and even training seminars. B-1 visas are relatively easy to get, and can be valid for as long as 10 years. Blueseed plans to provide regular ferry service between the ship to the United States. While Blueseed residents would need to do their actual work—such as writing code—on the ship, Marty envisions them making regular trips to Silicon Valley to meet with clients, investors, and business partners. With the ship only 12 miles offshore, it should be practical to make a day trip to the mainland and return in the evening. A B-1 visa also permits overnight stays.'"
Have gnu, will travel.
Well when you were promised a job in IT - they didn't mention exactly what sort of IT position it was. Now pedal faster, we need more CPU cycles dammit!
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
It sounds like this would be an irresistible target for someone with a boat or a plane packed with explosives. Sadly, that's the type of world we live in. You would need anti-aircraft turrets and security boat patrols. Actually, that sounds kind of cool.
Why would this be a more attractive target than say, Apple or Google headquarters? A truck (or even motorcycle) filled with explosives driving into the corporate cafeteria at lunchtime would do much more economic damage and garner much more news coverage than taking out some unknown up-and-coming startup executives on a ship. It would take more than a cessna filled with explosives to take out a sturdy oceangoing vessel. Likewise, a small boat filled with explosives will only take out a watertight compartment or two on the large ship, presumably on the less desirable lower decks where you won't find the high valued targets doing deals up on the lido deck.
If the terrorists could procure a torpedo, then they might have a chance at sinking the vessel.
I love the people who seem to think international waters means "You can do whatever you want." No, not really. You can declare yourself to be your own country or whatever but that doesn't matter. There are only two real ways to be an independent country:
1) Get recognized as such by one or more major international bodies like the UN, NATO, etc. When the big boys say "Yup, you are independent," then you are. This is more or less how it goes for countries like Iceland, that have effectively no military.
2) Have enough guns that nobody can challenge your independence. That's how it works for countries like the US or China. Doesn't really matter what anyone wants to think, they are independent by virtue of nobody has the ability to invade them.
Neither of that would be the case for this little offshore platform. The US could screw them over real simply by just refusing to allow sea or air traffic to or from the platform. If there was any real problem, they could send in the Coast Guard. In the event the people on the platform fired on the USCG, well that is that as per US law that's an act of war and then the Navy can get involved.
Alternatively they could flag themselves under some nation, but then they are subject to that nations laws, and of course that nation will have treaties with the US and so on.
Intel wasn't.
Andy Grove was born in Budapest
.. this particular assumption is wrong.
I am based out of Canada at the moment and I work in a big IT company. We had our annual conference in Chicago, I applied for a B1 and was refused. The grounds were that i apparently could not prove "strong ties to my home country" . I am originally from India, and my job requires me to travel a lot. This situation ( having stayed in Canada for 6 months only ) was the criteria for them to reject my entry. And i had a perfectly valid reason to visit the US.
This is not a rant. I hope the backers of the venture understand that there are many more visa issues than what they are aware off.
It sounds like someone read the last half of Snow Crash and thought that this was somehow a good idea. Either that, or the Wikipedia article on L. Ron Hubbard, and figured he could get a lot of underage girls that way.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
The US has the most retarded immigration policy. They make it too hard for highly educated/skilled people to legitimately immigrate, but they turn a blind eye to the MILLIONS of uneducated illegal immigrants. The US should be welcoming the highly educated/skilled people into their country, not turning them away, because they will most likely make a positive contribution to society. Instead, by turning them away, they go somewhere else and compete against the Americans.
Since they are hacking US immigration law, I can see the Coast Guard taking a dim view on rescuing such people.
My Coast Guard friends would take that as quite an insult. These people risk their lives to help others on a regular basis--they don't deserve to have such petty motives attributed to them.
12 miles is well within the US's EEZ (which is 200 miles I believe), so the Coast Guard would absolutely take a dim view of anyone using violence within that zone. And the CG I'm sure doesn't give a rat's ass about someone doing an end-run around immigration laws, especially if there's someone in US waters using weapons against any vessels. Again, these are not international waters. Try going fishing out there in violation of US fishing regulations and see what the CG does to you.
I suppose the first technology they're going to work on is how to get a constant stream of electricity out there?
Apparently it will come as a surprise to you, but we have had large ships traveling the oceans for quite a while, which even have electricity.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Yes, but we never had a globalised information economy before. I can see the argument that getting the best of the non-U.S. citizens in the same place, having them work intensively on startups, and having access to Silicon Valley investors and resources, would potentially work. Think of it as Y Combinator for people who can't get a visa. Their estimated low price point is $1200/person/month; at that price there are investors who would be willing to finance small startup teams in exchange for equity. Let's say total cost is $2k/person/month, that's $18k for 3 people for 3 months, which is equal to the average amount that Y Combinator invests in their "3 month move to California" development program. And for the top graduates from Africa, India, China etc. this would look like a good opportunity given the huge potential rewards at the end.
The real question here, is whether proximity to Silicon Valley offers any real advantage to startups anymore? This place will be competing against startup accelerators in India and elsewhere, so why would a top Indian graduate choose to use this accelerator rather than one based in India?
I suspect the OP meant coding gulag, where you won't own anything you develop, essentially a code sweatshop.
Good luck getting off that boat for the promised visits to the US if the US authorities decide they don't like the
activities going on out there, or simply become suspicious of the place being uses a an industrial espionage platform
with all the trips back and forth to "conferences" etc.
Just because its 12 miles off shore doesn't put it outside of the US Economic Exclusion Zone, which covers far more than fisheries and oil production these days.
Then there is the maintenance issue. A boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money. A big boat is a big hole.
It has to be maintained, generators must run, bilges must be pumped. Laundry, kitchens, telecoms. Its expensive.
A captain and crew must be onboard 24/7 in case of the emergency, storms, or whatever.
Since the developers are cooped up on board 24/7 you would be occasionally entertained, exercised as well. I can't see this being
a fun place to work. The possibility of abuse, is high, and who do you appeal to? How do you get paid?
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
The highly skilled people take jobs Americans want.
The uneducated immigrants, all media hyperbole aside, take jobs Americans don't.
Its as simple as that.
The US has had a "contiguous zone" extending from 12nm (nautical miles, not nanometers :-) to 24nm since 1999.
The US maintains customs, fiscal, immigration, sanitary laws and regulations out to 24nm, so a floating coding platform within that limit would be subject to not just immigration laws (so B1 visas would not be sufficient, since they do not leave US immigration jurisdiction at any point if they're only 12nm from land), but all tax and related laws as well.
The highly skilled people take jobs Americans want regardless of where in the world they are located. This can't be avoided and is called outsourcing.
I live in South America, and pretty much anyone I know here on the tech industry is taking jobs from American companies.
If America lets the highly skilled people in, at least their money will be spent inside the country, and this will end up generating more jobs in the long run.
The highly skilled people take jobs Americans want.
But aren't skilled enough to do. It's better to bring the skilled people to America, rather than forcing the job to another country. I heard a statistic once, that Silicon Valley has 1% of the Canadian population. One of Canada's problems is losing highly skilled, highly educated people to the US. The best tech minds in the world concentrate in Silicon Valley. It is no coincidence that Silicon Valley innovates like no other. Kick out all the highly-skilled, highly-educated immigrants from Silicon Valley, and you'll see that things come quickly to a halt. The US is in an envious position, where highly skilled/educated people WANT to move there, and do.
The uneducated immigrants, all media hyperbole aside, take jobs Americans don't.
Exactly my point. These are ILLEGAL immigrants. Why does the US have a system where illegal is the norm? It makes no sense! Naturalize them, bring them into the system, and have them pay their share of the taxes. Having so many people in this grey area is ridiculous.
Why does the US have a system where illegal is the norm? It makes no sense! Naturalize them, bring them into the system, and have them pay their share of the taxes. Having so many people in this grey area is ridiculous.
Because slave labor kicks ass, that's why.
weinersmith
First of all, you don't just anchor a big ship 24 miles offshore in several thousand feet of water. You have to either keep the ship underway; essentially in a holding pattern... or you dynamically position the ship using thrusters and sea-floor beacons. Neither of these is cheap, requiring 24/7/365 licensed merchant marine officers on the bridge and in the engine room. And if the ship is dynamically positioned you need officers who are qualified to operate this equipment as well. Drill ships use these guys... and they are expensive and expect to work 28 days on and get 28 days off... with pay. So you'll need two crews.
Provisioning... getting food, fuel and other supplies out to the ship... is also not cheap and would probably require a "workboat" of the type drill rigs use. If nothing else, the insurance company (you *are* going to be insured, right?) will require this as a safety measure.
If you flag your ship offshore you cannot move it from one U.S. port to another... you have to touch at another - foreign - port in between. This is why cruise ships from Seattle to Alaska stop in British Columbia. Crew is cheaper but you incur a whole slew of other problems including convincing the USA that you can operate a foreign flag ship in the economic exclusion zone.
Cell phones do not work 24 nm at sea... or even 12 nm offshore... and satellite communication is remarkably expensive. And bandwidth is not all that great over the communications satellites. You can get bandwidth from other sources but the latency is terrible. At least it's cheaper.
Since I am a retired merchant marine officer (who also operated dynamic positioning equipment on several drill rigs) I can tell you that many people get very claustrophobic on a ship. Seven days on a cruise liner is no preparation for a couple of months on a converted whatever.
I'm sure there are other pitfalls but those are just the most obvious ones.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!