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Are Data Centers Finally Ready For DC Power?

1sockchuck writes "It's been five years since a landmark study outlined the potential benefits of DC power distribution in data centers. But adoption of DC in data centers remains limited, even as the industry aggressively pursues a wide array of other energy savings strategies. Advocates of DC distribution are hoping a new study will jump start the conversation about DC distribution, which can save energy by eliminating several wasteful AC-to-DC conversions within a data center. Meanwhile, an industry association for DC power adoption, the EMerge Alliance, has formed a new technical standards committee for data centers, and is advancing a 380-volt DC power standard. Will DC distribution ever gain momentum in data centers?"

28 of 462 comments (clear)

  1. Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by ravenspear · · Score: 5, Funny

    I told you bitches I would prevail one day!

    1. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not really. AC was the answer to how to transport electricity long distances.

      Currently, it is still converted to DC in a huge amount of devices, in the computer at the PSU. Few devices use AC iirc, something like a fan/ceiling fan probably has an AC motor because a DC motor would slice your finger off if you decided to play with the blades. So, the question then just remains how to optimize the point of conversion. It's rather like the electric car-fossil-fuel-electric-plant/gasoline car debate: have a bunch of small inefficient combustion engines or a large efficient one but deal with transport losses (along with a bunch of other issues).

      In this case, just where along the line do you convert the AC to DC. Since DC can't really travel far at all without significant losses, I guess that would be at the rack level?

    2. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 5, Informative

      AC was the answer to how to transport electricity long distances

      AC was used because using transformers to convert between voltage levels was more efficient than motor-generators and solid state electronics hadn't been invented yet. All other things being equal, DC is always more efficient than AC for long distance transmission.

    3. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by Elder+Entropist · · Score: 5, Informative

      Very high voltage was the answer to how to transport electricity long distances. AC was the answer to how to convert that high voltage to safer/useful low voltages cheaply. Very high voltage DC can lose less power over distance than AC. On smaller/cheaper wires too due to the AC skin effect.

    4. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by Mr+Z · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem with DC back in Edison's day was that you couldn't easily step it up or down. DC doesn't have higher losses than AC at the same voltage. In fact, DC radiates less energy away than AC does, and is therefore more efficient.

      Ohmic losses all come down to I^2 * R. R is the resistance of the cable, and I is current. To deliver a given amount of power, you have to have a certain V*I. To reduce Ohmic losses, then, you have to reduce the amount of current, which means going up in voltage.

      Incidentally, that's also what's driving automobile manufacturers toward 48v instead of 12v, since it would cut the current from the battery by a factor of 4, thereby reducing the amount of loss in the wiring by a factor of 16. That means you can use smaller wires to deliver the same amount of power, safely.

    5. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Way to take a completely normal, productive conversation and shit all over it.

      Try being less of an asshole for a day or two. You might find that people hate you less.

    6. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by EETech1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's why they use 380 volts! One big splice goes to all the 12 volt stuff, then another splice comes off of that splice to do the 5 volt stuff. It is not run through regulators, it just happens automatically due to the superior characteristics of DC power! They also tap into the ground wire at various places to get the -5 and -12. Magic I tell ya!

      It sees it's best efficiencies running near 100% utilization through so you want to plan your workloads accordingly, or you risk watching your $#!+ let out it's magic smoke! So all in all it should drive down the price of "the cloud" by forcing competition!

      Win, Win!

    7. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by Relayman · · Score: 4, Informative

      At 60 Hz, the skin effect is virtually nonexistent.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    8. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The skin effect is only significant at frequencies WAY above 60Hz, so this is not relevant. AC is used because transformers can convert huge amounts of power from one voltage to another reliably, efficiently and cheaply.

      Its true you can convert voltages DC to DC using electronics, but reliably at 132kV? It aint easy, cheap and certainly neither if you want efficiency.

      (Blow up a 132kV IGBT, then come back and tell me about the damage :-)

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    9. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by lgw · · Score: 4, Funny

      That "whooshing" sound you hear? Yeah, the guy who modded that post "informative" heard it too.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    10. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      At 60 Hz, the skin effect is virtually nonexistent.

      Monster Cable begs to differ!

    11. Re:Edison reaching out from beyond the grave by ktbaia · · Score: 5, Informative

      I beg to differ. The Electronic Power Steering in my 1995 NSX decidedly does NOT feel like crap. When EPS systems were first put on production cars (the NSX was the first), it was on sports cars, where good steering feel is very important. See this link for information on how a decent EPS system should work. Just because Toyota can't figure out how to do a decent EPS doesn't mean that it hasn't been done. http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/eps.htm

  2. Telecom's been doing this for many, many years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DC power is the standard in the telecom industry.

    I design systems based around HP's BladeSystem, and the DC power modules just drop in and go. It's very easy, works great, and most of all, my telecom customers love them.

    1. Re:Telecom's been doing this for many, many years. by Shatrat · · Score: 5, Informative
      I work with DC power in Telecom and it has 3 huge advantages I can think of off the top of my head:

      1) You centralize your rectification. Instead of having hundreds of power supplies running at 80% efficiency, you can have a large rectifier system running at up to 96%.
      2) Lead Acid batteries are hugely more reliable and less expensive than equivalent UPS systems, and provide more holdover time. They're still expensive and finicky, but many times less so than a UPS.
      3) Any old technician with a brain in their head can run DC power feeds to equipment relatively safely due to the low voltages involved. AC power work of any kind should have a qualified electrician involved.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:Telecom's been doing this for many, many years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The positive ground in telco systems is not bizarre at all: one end of the twisted pair is grounded, and, being at zero volts does not suffer galvanic corrosion. The other end is at -48V and benefits from cathodic protection: it's the anode that generally gets corroded in a galvanic cell.

    3. Re:Telecom's been doing this for many, many years. by vlm · · Score: 5, Interesting

      4) Done right with a positive ground system, leads to less corrosion problems with outside plant. Admittedly "inside" the data center, if you're got corrosion, you're doin it wrong.

      5) Less AC hum. We had some microwave site to site short hop gear back in ye olde NTSC days that could only be run off battery without 60 hz interference bars on the screen. Not technologically relevant anymore, but the point remains that DC is always going to be cleaner than AC.

      6) Better lightning protection. I'm sure its happened, but I've never heard of losing a telco DC bus. Big conductors, giant batteries across them, lightning is just not an issue anymore at the power level (still need to ground feedlines / waveguide / whatever you've got at home like that)

      7) dump most of the power conversion heat in the battery room where its all built to handle high temp and no one visits (other than occasional battery maint). Cheaper cooling in the data center, data center is somewhat more habitable, etc.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  3. Google 12VDC proposal better. by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's no particular reason that 380 VDC distribution should help efficiency. You still need about two more levels of switching power supply before power reaches the ICs.

    Google's proposal that motherboards should need only 12VDC made more sense. Drives already run on 12VDC, and there's already a level of power conversion near the CPU to get the desired CPU voltage. The USB devices do need +5, but a 12VDC to 5VDC switching converter can handle that. And single-voltage power supplies are more efficient and simpler than multi-voltage ones.

    1. Re:Google 12VDC proposal better. by Mr+Z · · Score: 4, Informative

      The current carrying capacity of the wires would need to be about 30 times larger, though, to deliver the same amount of power. That's pretty huge. To go to 12v everywhere, you'd need huge current-carrying wires everywhere (think "as big as your car battery cables or bigger"). To carry 1kW through a 380V line, you only need to handle 2.6A. To carry 1kW through a 12v line, you need to handle 83A. And that's just one beefy server.

      Now think of your house wiring. Outside of your major appliances, where do you see runs higher than 15A or maybe 30A? There's a reason high voltage is good.

    2. Re:Google 12VDC proposal better. by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 5, Funny

      what about salt water filled copper pipes for the conductors?

      Excellent idea! Hydrogen gas, oxygen gas, chlorine and an ignition source all in the same package. What could possibly go wrong?

  4. You'd need much larger conductors by bigtrike · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lower voltages require larger conductors to carry the same current. Copper isn't that cheap.

    1. Re:You'd need much larger conductors by nzac · · Score: 4, Informative

      No the skin effect is for (High frequency) AC.

      For DC impedance is determined by the material and the cross section area.

      It does make the cables easier to bend though.

  5. We have 48VDC as one standard... by mlts · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If one has worked in a telco, we already have a standard, and that is 48VDC. This is the domain of the Sun Netras of yore.

    If I were to recommend a voltage, why not plain old 12VDC? Yes, the amps have to be high, but we already have a connector for this (beats wiring up things by hand and throwing a breaker), and it is not hard to find off the shelf hardware to support this, be it batteries, power distribution units, inverters/converters, solar panels with MPPT controllers, and so on. We have two large markets (RV/marine) that are dedicated to 12VDC.

    Why not just use an established standard? 12VDC works and has a lot of support, or if a higher voltage is needed, then 48VDC.

    384VDC just seems to be asking for trouble. It would require yet another separate connector that can't be plugged into 120VAC or 240VAC, generators would have to have an adapter for it. It would require a complete retooling to get to that standard.

    Making another voltage level is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Why not just go with an established DC voltage level?

    Take 12VDC. Most generators, from the expensive inverters by Honda or Yamaha can generate that, as well as the construction grade open-framed ones.

    1. Re:We have 48VDC as one standard... by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, the current will be higher at lower voltage. This does NOT correlate to needing thicker wires, as the wire has to withstand not current but power which is the result of multiplying voltage with current.

      You've managed to be right while also being wrong at the same time.

      You could use voltage*current to calculate the thermal losses in a conductor but what you've done incorrectly is assume that "voltage" in this equation is the voltage between the conductor and ground.

      The correct way to calculate losses in a conductor is current * end-to-end voltage difference

      The end-to-end voltage difference is directly proportional to the current so the most efficient way to calculate the losses is current squared times resistance.

      Since the surface area of a wire is proportional to the square of the wire diameter and the conductivity required is proportional to the square of the current carried it ends up that wire diameter is directly proportional to the current.

  6. Re:Why 380v? by RichMan · · Score: 5, Informative

    440 * sin(120) = 381.05 ....

    3 phase has 2 ways of looking at the voltages, Y or delta.
    The 3 phase delta is 440v when you measure between any pair of the 3 wires. The center point is ground. You don't see that in delta, but you do when measuring it in Y form. The same signals that are 440v when measured as a pair are 3 x 380v when looked at in the Y configuration.

    So 3 phase 440v gives you 3x 380v to ground.

    As to the 12v/5v/1.5v/ whatever you are going to have to do DC to DC all over the place. Better to have as high a voltage as possible for less current and less losses.

  7. Re:also needed for houses by vlm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For certain you'd want to have a different kind of plug for DC devices, but even that would give us an opportunity to 1) standardize on one global plug standard, at least for DC, and 2) allow us to design a small, rugged, safe type of plug.

    Aka the famous (in some circles) Anderson Power Pole. Go ask a ham radio guy.

    The thing I love about in house DC distribution, which I have in my house, is it forces at least a token effect at "green power reduction". Suddenly given the choice of a 12 volt 6 watt LED fed by $2 of small gauge wire vs something resembling welding cable wire to run a 200 watt halogen, you make the ecologically correct choice.

    I used to use cast off surplus 200 watt desktops for my mythtv frontends. Unholy pain to run on 12 V. Now I use 5 watt Zotac boxes. Good for everyone in every way.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  8. Re:And in related news... by DickBreath · · Score: 5, Funny

    Would an AC current be generated by Tesla spinning in his grave?

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  9. Re:also needed for houses by Obfuscant · · Score: 4, Informative

    What bothers me is all the new LED bulbs that have transformers in them (guessing, because they get hot! ... feels like wasted energy)

    High power LEDs get hot because you are running good amounts of current through them, not because there is a transformer. Transformers are pretty much useless with the DC current that runs LEDs.

    I'd think it would be more efficient to run DC to lighting and certain outlets like those where small devices would sit ...

    The problem comes in deciding what voltage to use. 12V means you need rather hefty wires to get the required current for some devices. A 6W LED needs half an amp at 12V. If you use a voltage that makes the current resonable, then you need to convert that voltage to what your device needs, every place you have a device.

    Sending 380V means you can use the same or smaller wires than you'd use for 120V systems, but you'll be busy converting that 380V DC to 12V DC or 5V DC or 1.2V DC -- and while DC-DC conversion has gotten a lot better, it is still more complicated than a simple transformer.

  10. Re:Power monitoring by blair1q · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hall effect.

    In the presence of a static magnetic field (as around a conductor carrying a constant current), electrons in the clamp circuit, which also carries a DC current, will be pushed to one side of the clamp conductor, inducing a voltage relative to the other side. Measure the voltage and you know the current in the wire it's clamped around.