Slashdot Mirror
OpenMoko's FreeRunner Rises From the Ashes
ChristW writes "Remember OpenMoko's first free and open source phones, the GTA-01 and GTA-02 (also called FreeRunner)? There is a new project called Phoenux. The German company Golden Delicous is building a new main board (called GTA-04) for the GTA01/02 case. The new hardware features a DM3730 (800 MHz) processor, a GTM601W UMTS (HSPA) module, and lots more." Would you pay extra for a phone that comes with a Debian build?
Everyone's already moved on to A9 based SoC's for things. If they'd consider an A9 based SoC (Something like the OMAP4 in the currently MIA Samsung Galaxy Nexus, for example...) for the OpenMoko platform, it might be a gem.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Sorry not really.
Get an HTC HD2. It runs linux with a little hacking as well as Android, WM6.5, WP7, and probably AmigaOS..
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
A friend gave me the Neo FreeRunner a long time ago. The graphics chip in combination with the display really killed the device. It's insanely slow, which I assume scared a lot of potential developers away. I hope this new version will be more balanced.
c++;
Yes, if it doesn't have CarrierIQ
I'd pay more for a phone without CarrierIQ
I really liked the Maemo OS. It was very open, and worked like a normal Linux system. Android looks very unappealing in the way it replaces pretty much all of the base system and requires coding specifically for it.
So I'd be quite willing to support a project along these lines, so long a few minimum requirements are fulfilled:
1. It's usable. Not necessarily 100% polished, but at a minimum boots up, charges, and makes and receives phone calls, with acceptable performance and no random crashes.
I considered getting a Freerunner back when it was new, but it I needed it to work as a phone, and the state at the time seemed to involve things like the inability to charge the battery if it was ever fully discharged.
2. It works like a normal Linux system. I want something like the N900, where I can compile, debug and run programs just like on my own box.
The stupid thing about the original FreeRunner was that it only did GPRS, when everything else did UMTS. For a programmable smartphone, not having a decent speed data connection made it pointless.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
It's very usable as a phone. As long as I'm using stable versions of software, I don't miss calls. There are odd bugs here and there with newer kernels, but you can decide if the features are worth the costs.
Sweet now I can hit pedestrians in a car on my phone, while hitting pedestrians in a car because I'm on my phone! Oh... motherboard... darn.
~nostrum
If they are not replacing the screen, just the board, then I think they are wasting their time. Based on how awkward the FreeRunner is with regards to the shape and size of the screen (480x640), they will never be able to compete with any recent Android or iPhone model.
Since they stated it will be using the same case, they are really limiting how much they can do for the FreeRunner.
Johnkoerner.com
N900 is weak as a phone but outstanding as a micro-laptop. You need to bash some parts into sanity (like, keybindings that work with shift-Fn without a pull-down list of symbols), but you get an actual usable Unix system, rather than just a phone with fart apps like iPhone or Android are.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
why not just contribute to Meego / Mer / Tizen / whatever the hell it's called today? Yes it's niche and probably doomed, but then hey, so is Openmoko. And Meego/Mer/Tizen/MaryPoppins is somewhat more developed.
Or, heck, keep using your N900. It appears to be about as powerful as this 'new' Freerunner hardware...
On top of running debian and being fully open source (well, maybe not the hardware and all the firmware) it seemed fully functional and had great hardware. I still preferred Android because in spite of being less open, it allowed for easier development and I found it more exciting.
It's a shame maemo (or whatever they call it these days) is not going to take off, because it actually looked pretty good, had very good performance, and was very hacker-friendly. Really sad :(
OpenMoko has the flaw (and benefit) of being fully open source to the hardware. Thing is, if they are not going to produce millions, cost is going to be very high. Maybe if they focused on porting maemo and did sell millions.. but I'm not sure millions of people would see the benefit of running open source hardware, for the same reason most don't care if the software is free or proprietary. I think nokia with the n900 and Android with the nexus phones have done a great job of providing a nice trade-off between openness, usability, and popularity (who would have thought the year of the linux smartphone was so nigh! ;) )
gta02 radio firmware was not open either.
It seems like you feel that people using n900 are just spotty teenagers with glasses with no friends but their computers. It's not about being proud, but about having the tool that you need. I well understand that a Debian based phone might not be useful for the masses, but it's the right tool for me. I *NEED* some of the features that are in it, like git (we store/share our company passwords using that), networking tools (I built myself mtr), a real ssh client with ssh key support, and many more. I don't need them because it's "cool", or to be "proud", I need them for my WORK. Oh, and I don't use the n900 as a phone, because it's a really crappy phone that is so slow that you can actually miss phone calls (and because of obscure contracts that I would force me to overpay to do both 3G and phone calls over here), and I rarely start the messaging stuff because it makes the phone horribly slow.
So I wouldn't pay more for a phone that comes with Debian (since I already own one), unless it is ALSO a decent phone, which might be the issue here with the FreeRunner too.
Thanks to the FSF they have decided that somehow the device will be more Free if they add extra hardware to remove the ability load your own firmware for the wifi. I'd rather they threw the wifi chip away and use a worse chip which requires no non-free code or just accepted you need the non-free firmware, don't up the cost to embed the non-free firmware into the board itself and then pretend it doesn't exist, it's just dumb.
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
You are guilty of preptuating one of the more annoyingly persistent memes on slashdot that one must have an insanely huge market to be a success. Plenty of people make a good living shipping modest volumes of a niche product.
If they're under the delusion that it matters, they're out of touch with reality.
I think you're under the delusion that you are able to offer sound business advice.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I have a freerunner GTA-02 and use it as a daily phone. I have qtmoko V19 in NAND as the stable platform and qtmoko V35 as experimental on SD. I will be buying a GTA-04 board in the new year.
N9 sucks. Gorgeous hardware for an iPhone-like concept (except the AMOLED is pentile), but no keyboard, and it comes with Aegis, a bloody steward as it were, left behind to enforce the true owner's (i.e. Nokia's) wishes in their absence. No chroot for you!
N950 has keyboard, and as a "developer's device" permits you to disable Aegis completely, but they won't sell the damned thing...
I'd recommend an N900 over N9 for any N810 fan at this point, even if it were the same price.
As a phone, it's very good. The performance is perfect, everything is smooth and works well. There are a few things lacking in a few places, like the lack of ability to create a Jabber account from the GUI, though it can be done from the commandline. Things like that seem to be because the release was somewhat rushed.
For commandline stuff, the on-screen keyboard isn't very good. If you're going to type a lot, get a N900. The N9 currently seems to lack bluetooth keyboard support for some reason, though it seems trivial to add if you flash the kernel (see below on that)
The N900 is rather slow in comparison to the N9, but if you want a pocket sized Linux box, it's exactly the thing to get. It also has more applications available. For instance OpenVPN isn't yet on the N9. Also, there's none of the aegis stuff I describe below on it, so you're quite free to do whatever you want.
Regarding root access: the anon misses a few things. Yes, it's easy to get root (enable develper mode, ssh in as developer@, devel-su, "rootme"). However, you don't really get root access that way.
There's this thing called "aegis", which is a combination of an permissions system, integrity checker, and encryption.
The permissions system means that even as root, you can't do some things like loading modules.
The integrity checker means that if you manage to bypass the security and change one of the protected binaries, the phone will notice and brick itself. It's fixable by reflashing, though.
The encryption part means that some applications have encrypted data stores. You can flash the phone with a custom kernel where aegis is disabled, however the bootloader will notice it's not official. As a result the keys it uses will change (or are not available at all, I'm not sure about the specifics yet), and the encrypted data stores become unreadable. This gets you real root on the device, with loading modules and all, but it seems you will lose a good part of the official applications. In my understanding this is not all that critical, and if one was determined enough, the missing functionality could be replaced.
You don't know what you are talking about. :) You can't go more open than that...
I have been a very happy N900 user for 2 years now, I have always wanted to have a linux machine always with me, especially with a free phone!
However, the "phone" experience was not that great. The resistive screen did not help in that respect, while I did prefer it over capacitive screens for other uses (browsing, editing etc), but in general the problem was that the device felt generally unpolished. Under command line everything works great (although they should have put a pipe by default on the hardware keyboard), but give it to a UI user and you can see some frustration. Even Nokia Maps came in an antiquated version.
So, I waited for the N950. Well, tough luck, they won't sell it to me.
Plan B, a month ago I bought the N9.
Well, I was very excited when I first got my N900. With the N9 I was ecstatic and my wife was too! The UI experience is amazing, definately better than android and even iOS! I had never seen my wife be amazed by a phone before - she says that next to the iphone the N9 looks like it came from 2050. Hard to explain but the curved shape of the device makes it very satisfying to swipe from the edge of the screen, which are the simple gestures to control apps (minimize, close). Also, a linux machine with 1G RAM proves really fast and helps the whole experience.
Now, on the actual reply to the parent, even with firmware 1.0 (my Denmark N9 still does not have the update) you simply go to settings and enable developer mode. Voila, the terminal appears, you launch it and type "devel-su". Password "rootme"
I do miss my hardware keyboard, I will have to do something about that, but for the first time in 2 years I have a device that is great as a phone and as a gps navigator (offline turn by turn). The first week I got it, I went out of the country for the first time without a laptop. I had my emails, access to my servers, could skype-call my contacts back home, plus with a $3 cable I hooked it up to the hotel room's 50-inch and watched the H264 encoded movies I brought with me.
Apart from the keyboard (can't currently play Civilization I under dosbox like on the N900) I also miss the browser of the N900, it was much closer to a desktop browser (complete with flash), but I hope fennec or opera will cover that void.
Sorry for the long post, when a simple "you can switch to developer mode in settings" would suffice, but after a month of ownership I am still a very excited N9 owner.
And sad at the same time. They are burying the device, since its success would mean the new Nokia CEO's windows-only strategy is BS (which it is), so they are selling it in very limited markets at a quite high price. When the N900 was the phone for the Geeks, the N9/N950 could be the phone for everyone including Geeks and Maemo/MeeGo would give us so much more than the walled garden of iOS or the java on steroids mess that is android.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS