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You Really Are What You Know

jd writes "There has been research for some time showing that London cab driver brains differ from other people's, with considerable enlargement of those areas dealing with spacial relationships and navigation. Follow-up work showed it wasn't simply a product of driving a lot (PDF). However, up until now it has been disputed as to whether the brain structure led people to become London cabbies or whether the brain structure changed as a result of their intensive training (which requires rote memorization of essentially the entire street map of one of the largest and least-organized cities in the world). Well, this latest study answers that. MRI scans before and after the training show that the regions of the brain substantially grow as a result of the training, and they're quite normal beforehand. The practical upshot of this research is that — even for adult brains, which aren't supposed to change much — what you learn structurally changes your brain. Significantly."

24 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. You would have to be differently abled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    To navigate a city looks like it was planned by throwing spaghetti at a wall and calling it a map.

    1. Re:You would have to be differently abled by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To navigate a city looks like it was planned by throwing spaghetti at a wall and calling it a map.

      And to think, that's after the Great Fire of London in 1666, and the subsequent planned rebuilding strategies to improve it! I'd had to think what it was like before that!

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:You would have to be differently abled by AaronLS · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think the focus of the rebuilding was on enforcing building codes that would prevent future catastrophic fires.

      They did try to improve the city layout, but the actual layout I don't believe was improved significantly because it would have meant buying out many property owners and the city couldn't afford that nor fight against the public outrage of displacing so many people. I seem to also remember from a documentary that so many took the initiative to begin rebuilding their homes and businesses so quickly that there wasn't any proper surveying done, plus the damage was so extensive it was difficult to tell where walls were previously. So property lines moved slightly and made things worse than before in some cases.

    3. Re:You would have to be differently abled by GrahamCox · · Score: 5, Interesting

      iTo navigate a city looks like it was planned by throwing spaghetti at a wall and calling it a map.

      Nevertheless, London is pretty understandable if you have to go there more than a few times. While I wouldn't claim to know all of it well, I know certain sections of it fairly well. It's fun to use your mental model of where things are to try and find a new route that brings you out close to your destination (probably best not tried if you are pressed for time). It doesn't always work but can lead to new discoveries.

      When I drive in cities that use the grid model, I find myself bored. They are far too predictable and lose the power to surprise and entertain. It also is mildly irritating that there are no true short cuts as there are so few diagonals. The distance between any two points is always an integral multiple of "a block". How is that any fun?

    4. Re:You would have to be differently abled by fotoflojoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts. The first time I visited London, I felt right at home.

  2. Changes your brain? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Funny

    The practical upshot of this research is that — even for adult brains, which aren't supposed to change much — what you learn structurally changes your brain. Significantly.

    Okay. Now I *really* feel sorry for Windows programmers/admins :-)

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Changes your brain? by TWX · · Score: 5, Funny

      I used to blame Bill for all of the ills in the profession I work in, but I've recently had a change of heart...

      In the years I've worked I've made about $500,000 in salary. 90% of the time I've worked on Windows machines, and frequently the same Windows machines, year after year, as the problems can't truly be fixed.

      I've made half-a-million bucks because of Microsoft! Woohoo!

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  3. Why did I waste my cranium space?! by TWX · · Score: 4, Funny

    Great... I wasted my space in my head on Star Trek...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Why did I waste my cranium space?! by poena.dare · · Score: 5, Funny

      Waste?

      If you have been a real Star Trek fan then there have been significant changes in your brain that allow you to better understand social justice, equality, currency-less societal structures, diplomacy, human-alien sexual congress, and the advisability of wearing red apparel.

      Not a waste at all!

  4. " Even for adult brains, which aren't supposed to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    " Even for adult brains, which aren't supposed to change much"

    How is it that this is still passed around as fact. This idea is incredibly outdated.

  5. Re:" Even for adult brains, which aren't supposed by TWX · · Score: 3, Funny

    How is it that this is still passed around as fact. This idea is incredibly outdated.

    Really? I watched several Republican Primary Debates, and I have to disagree with you...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  6. Good news! by mosb1000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is good news for you then, since it means that it's never too late to forget all that junk.

  7. Meditation by Laxori666 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone who meditates effectively for any length of time can attest to the fact that the brain can change quite dramatically as a result of what you do with it. Things that I did not even know were possible have happened to me as a result of it, and not in a subtle way, either.

    1. Re:Meditation by Laxori666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I do different things now than when I started. First it was just following the breath 20min/day... then doing a technique called Mahasi-style Noting... at some point a shift occurred which made it far, far easier to concentrate on whatever I wanted and for however long (I basically am never bored anymore as there is always something interesting going on that I can observe). If you'd like to get into it more I invite you to introduce yourself on the Dharma Overground.

  8. Re:The question is how long does it take? by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Along the same lines, do some types of jobs lead to stable equilibrium configurations of some sort (which cannot be easily escaped)? For example, does learning to take orders and being a good employee reconfigure the brain in different ways than being an entrepreneur and making up your own decisions? Is it possible to become the latter if you've already spent 20 years being the former?

  9. Re:" Even for adult brains, which aren't supposed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He still has a century on the people he's insulting, champ.

  10. But? by M0j0_j0j0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    The question is: How is the Brain of the people that study the Brain?

  11. Re:Oh no by sedman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Your vision center has shrunk. Careful or it will disappear all together.

  12. Not what you know by gmuslera · · Score: 3, Insightful
    but what you exercise. Probably there are (maybe in different areas) brain improvements too for piano players, people that speak in several languages or players of some games. The brain is a muscle that grows with training.

    Related with the title, not the content of the article, probably there is very little of what is "you" that wasnt what you know or what you lived. Someone else that looked essentially like me (to not have different experiences based on looks) living exactly what i lived would probably think like me.

    1. Re:Not what you know by jd · · Score: 5, Informative

      The following is what I could dig up on the effects of multi-lingualism. It does impact the brain in many different areas and there appears to be a growing belief that learning a new language at any age will have a pronounced impact on your ability to think and reason, but that if taught young the improvements are far more dramatic still. I didn't want to clutter the submission with this stuff, especially as these studies don't have nearly the same level of rigour as the MRI scans of the taxi drivers (where a whole host of variables can now be examined directly versus the somewhat more indirect studies done on polyglots). They're also a bit more controversial, with opposing studies claiming that the benefits either don't exist or don't exist in the way that is claimed.

      http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/0012brain.html
      http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagename=brainbriefings_thebilingualbrain
      http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/11/10/cognitive-ability-improved-when-bilingual/20740.html

      (Press coverage adds yet another level of indirectness and potential sources of errors, but there's still some useful info here)

      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/science/31conversation.html
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3739690.stm
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/feb/18/bilingual-alzheimers-brain-power-multitasking

      The impact of music on learning is also not very well studied - I can find press links that talk about the research, but not much actual research.

      http://www.livescience.com/5327-music-memory-connection-brain.html
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070801122226.htm
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3095807.stm
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12135590

      However, the story gets MUCH more complicated...

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15791973
      http://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/misc/amnesia.html

      There IS a fascinating "reverse" case, where alteration of the brain resulted in a remarkable alteration in musical ability, but as far as I know there has been no real work done on what changes the brain has undergone as a consequence of the new obsession.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cicoria

      If anyone can add to the list, that would be great, especially for the different areas you were mentioning.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  13. Re:" Even for adult brains, which aren't supposed by cyachallenge · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well, neural plasticity does slow down considerably after early adulthood. I imagine you're responding to the theory that plasticity simply halted after childhood, which has been disproven many times. Neuroscience is a complex field that ties Philosophy of Mind, Psychology, Neurology etc together. It's hard to make any lasting broad statements about the brain and how it works.

  14. Re:pr0n? by BMOC · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Sir your visual cortex is extremely complex. At these percentages of activity and size, you should be able to spot perfect-10 curves from 5000 feet in the air. Of course someday you'll just magically go blind, with no medical explanation, so there's that."

    --
    I swear they give me mod points to shut me up.
  15. Re:" Even for adult brains, which aren't supposed by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    " Even for adult brains, which aren't supposed to change much"

    How is it that this is still passed around as fact. This idea is incredibly outdated.

    Absolutely. There's a recent study, done at Mass Gen, that shows adults who practice mindfulness medication, such as tai chi, benefit from measurable physical changes to their brain in as little as 8 weeks of 20min/day meditation. Even older adults. And these changes occur to the regions of the brain that are associated with memory, sense of self, empathy and dealing with stress.

    I teach Chinese martial arts, including tai chi chuan, and love to point this out to my students.

    By the way, tai chi is really good for tech types like programmers. It's fun and the martial arts aspects are extremely cool. You also get to use swords (long swords (jian) and broadswords (dao)) as well as staffs and spears. Tai chi also puts lead in your pencil, if you catch my drift.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  16. Re:The question is how long does it take? by jd · · Score: 3

    That's actually a very good question. I'm not sure anyone has done that study, but I'd love to know the results.

    If we go with current thinking (the Peter Principle, the idea that people generally will have their best ideas when young, the high failure rate of start-ups that appear to be by people moving out of regular industry, the apparent "strangeness" of inventors and innovators to those with a strong work ethic, etc) then the answer would be "almost certainly" for your first question, "quite likely" for your second and "yes but it's unimaginably rare" to your third.

    However, you must bear in mind that until there's hard evidence of cause-and-effect, this is all supposition based on anecdotal evidence (which, if you remember your Dilbert videos, is only good for selling books) and apparent correlation. It seems very plausible, but without something a bit more solid I'm not confident anyone can give a real answer.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)