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Tizen, webOS, & the Future of Mobile Open Source

jfruhlinger writes "When HP announced it would release webOS as open source, it added a competitor to a narrow niche: there's already Tizen, the descendant of MeeGo, which is, like webOS, an open source Linux-based operating system for smartphones. Can they co-exist, or will one come out on top? One built-in advantage for webOS is that already has hardware, in the form of all those $99 TouchPad's being snapped up on eBay."

16 of 94 comments (clear)

  1. Abandonware open source by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is abandonware. That seems to be a trend. As something becomes unprofitable but still has a user base, it's open-sourced to make the support load go away.

    1. Re:Abandonware open source by iplayfast · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Like openoffice/libraoffice firefox blender?

      You are right that making it opensourced will help with the support load, but that doesn't imply that it's been abandoned. Competition is good, and android needs some.

    2. Re:Abandonware open source by Qwavel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "The future of mobile open source is pretty much dead at the moment."

      Generally, I find that the open-source absolutists who won't even admit the existence of an open-source option unless it is perfect are the ones who end as the biggest Apple fans (Stallman excluded, of course).

      Like you, perhaps, I was rooting for Maemo/meego/whatever - I had the 770, 800, and the 810, and I wrote software for them. But face it, Nokia messed up, and there is another open-source mobile OS.

      Sure, the google apps that ship on top of Android aren't open-source, but do you really think that Nokia would have kept every piece of Maemo open if it had taken off?

    3. Re:Abandonware open source by Junta · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's really small details that make a big difference to me. A coherent, unified messaging app (simple trick of using libpurple, mostly). The ability to sanely manage multiple text conversations at once ('cards' compromising between full fledged desktop metaphor and mobile form factor). Architecture that prioritized keeping running apps running instead of arbitrary kills on 'background' applications. Architecture that didn't encourage every task switch to induce piss-poor home-written state restores (why is it when I switch to a browser, my SMS conversation closes when I switch back???).

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    4. Re:Abandonware open source by log0n · · Score: 3, Informative

      webOS was pretty well thought-out before they actually started building the software. It's a lot more consistent in interface than iOS (which isn't too bad) and Android (which is pretty abysmal). It also went the Apple school-of-thought of 'pick certain things, do those really well' (even 1-up'd iOS a bit) rather than the Android/Windows route of 'doing everything, specialize in nothing'.

    5. Re:Abandonware open source by keefus_a · · Score: 3, Informative

      piss-poor home-written state restore

      The thing I miss the most about my Palm pre was being able to open an email, tap to dial into a conference call, flip back to the email to get the conference pin, and flip back to the phone app to dial it. On Android, swapping between apps is a crap shoot on whether the app will actually be in the state that I left it. The same thing goes for typing an email or text message and needing to flip over to a web page, or god forbid another email, to reference information and trying to flip back and seamlessly pick up where I left off.

      My only issue was with the original pre hardware. Had Sprint picked up the pre+ or pre2 with the added RAM and storage I would likely still be using webOS. I'm using an Evo4g now and the entire experience has been a compromise. Sure the updated innards are nice, and there are certainly benefits to the Android Marketplace. But I've tried iOS and Android and in my opinion, for day to day use of the device, nothing comes close to webOS.

  2. Narrow niche? by DragonWriter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When HP announced it would release webOS as open source, it added a competitor to a narrow niche: there's already Tizen, the descendant of MeeGo, which is, like webOS, an open source Linux-based operating system for smartphones.

    I think there might be another open-source, Linux-based operating systems for smartphones besides Tizen or webOS, called something like Robot or Cyborg -- not either of those exactly, but something in the same vein...

  3. Lots of potential here by na1led · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think there is a lot of potential for developers to make money and make WebOS into something much better. You already have over a million people with Touchpads plus all those Webos Phones. There work in progress to run Android Apps inside WebOS, and if some can port Netflix and Hulu over then I'm sure it will be a winner.

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    -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
  4. Want open hardware, GNU/Linux by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When Il bought my N900 I had a choice between WebOS, Android and Maemo (predecessor of MeeGo/Tizen). I chose Maemo because it was real GNU/Linux, not some Java/JS-based OS with the warm fuzziness of a Linux-based kernel like the other two. Also the hardware was fully open, no rooting or bootloader cracking required. Wake me up when I can get something new like that, with a hardware keyboard.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Want open hardware, GNU/Linux by IANAAC · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I had an N800 for a long time and I miss it. I used to think that it was Maemo that was what made it so special because I thought everything was logically laid out, but I'm not so sure. It may just have been that that is what I got used to.

      I think it was the solid hardware, more than anything. Even with a now passé resistive screen, everything was super smooth and I very rarely used a stylus. I have a cheap knock-off Android tablet now, and it's really not a smooth experience. The hardware is definitely not as well made, from the loose AC plug to the crappy speakers. Headphones are good though. Screen responsiveness downright sucks.

      If I could find a way to install or at least run Maemo from an SD card on my current tablet, I'd try it to see if I still felt the same way about the OS.

    2. Re:Want open hardware, GNU/Linux by Nursie · · Score: 3

      Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

      Nobody claims linux is a microkernel, least of all GNU (who are still working on Hurd, an actual microkernel).

      And a kernel is not an entire OS, it's just a kernel. There's lots of GNU code, daemons and utilities in GNU/Linux, and not so much in Android/Linux.

  5. I'm doubtful... by Junta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Realistically, I see WebOS evaporating as well is Tizen. Android is more than a technology platform, it is a brand. The word 'webOS' does not carry the marketing value that 'android' does. Apple has already set the pace of mobile experience being dominated by one-off applications more than more neutral web interfaces and so you have a significant network effect in play, no company backing means a distinct lack of applications for users and a dead platform.

    Even if you subscribe to the theory the mobile market continues to show high volatility and there isn't the signs of insurmountable entrenchment like the desktop market and therefore anything including WebOS has a shot, WebOS is severely handicapped. It comes with the baggage of failing to bail out the once-great Palm, of sucking billions out of HP, and every appearance of being abandoned as a result. A technical advocate trying to get business leadership to recognize the value in the platform and commit to it has very little to no chance of convincing business leaders given the track record.

    It's a shame too, ever since I had to go to an Android device, I've found the experience *highly* annoying compared to WebOS.
    -The gestures were so nice and smooth and I miss them.
    -As a corollary, 'back' was a lot more consistent (in Android, it ends up serving double duty for per-app 'back' and task switching if it thinks it appropriate).
    -Same for menus, Android apps are a mess with how inconsistently they deal with the menu button being pressed, and 99% of the time additional content is inelegantly dumped into one 'more settings' button.
    -When I switched away and back to an app in WebOS, the interface was just so much more sensible and showing what was going on better.
    -When I switch away and back in WebOS, the app was always consistent with where I left it last. In Android, it's a crap shoot. Sometimes the app just continues running in memory and is consistent when I return, sometimes that same app was killed arbitrarily by the OS and doesn't restore, sometimes an app faced with that inconsistency just always forces their piss-poor state restore every time they are backgrounded.
    -I could reasonably manage multiple textual conversations in baked in WebOS chat. Multiple chats open concurrently all under a single coherent messaging system. Now if I get gTalk, one app manages it and if I get SMS, something else handles it. If I'm chatting with someone and switch away to look up something and switch back, the SMS app has closed my conversation and I have to find it again.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  6. WebOS is ahead by Tester · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1. I'm not convinced at all that HP is giving up on WebOS, if they had wanted to get rid of it, they could have sold it for a lot of money. There are many interested buyers.

    2. WebOS has a huge advantage, it already exists. Tizen doesn't. Intel had announced that they would announce the architecture at Linuxcon Europe, but they had nothing to show. Rumour is that they're still in negotiation with Samsung.. And doing this kind of work in a joint venture is always a terrible idea as there is no clear direction. On the other hand, WebOS exists, works and is on devices already. And it seems HP is still investing in it. Also WebOS has applications, Tizen doesn't, it doesn't even have any defined APIs, no one knows what will be in it, etc.

    1. Re:WebOS is ahead by Junta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I seriously, seriously doubt that there are viable buyers at this point. I'm fairly convinced HP exhausted that option before open sourcing. Of course, open sourcing is much harder than just closing the whole effort down, so HP is spending money on WebOS for *some* reason.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    2. Re:WebOS is ahead by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      MeeGo and its descendants have been a huge clusterfuck, Maemo has a nice working desktop environment and is the closest to a regular desktop Linux distro underneath. The best thing to do as a next step would have been to bring it even closer to a standard Linux distro, maybe base it on Debian ARM and put Maemo's desktop and apps on top.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  7. If Intel/Samsung are smart by UpnAtom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... they'll adopt WebOS, stick it on top of Meego, include the Qt stuff to keep existing, highly productive Maemo developers on board and have themselves a cheap, vastly superior alternative to Android & iOS.