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The Undeclared "Cyber Cold War" With China
First time accepted submitter lacaprup writes "Chinese-based hacking of 760 different corporations reflects a growing, undeclared cyber war. From giants like Intel and Google to unknowns like iBahn, the Chinese hackers are accused of stealing everything isn't nailed down. Simply put, it is easier and cheaper to steal rather than develop the legal way. China has consistently denied it has any responsibility for hacking that originated from servers on its soil, but — based on what is known of attacks from China, Russia and other countries — a declassified estimate of the value of the blueprints, chemical formulas and other material stolen from U.S. corporate computers in the last year reached almost $500 billion"
Every black hat is probably running their operations through proxies in China these days so that the Western companies they break into will just say "damn dirty Chinese!" and never suspect someone in Europe or maybe just a few blocks away. China is a jurisdictional black hole.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Undeclared my ass. It's in the media, it's widely known, and pretty much the only rule is not to do something to the other side's infrastructure that kills people directly or gets too much of the population upset. That's like calling the intelligence war undeclared because the sides don't admit that they try to get plans of the other side's military hardware--only more so. We don't declare war, and this isn't a physical war, and there are certain proportionality requirements--and we argue for a pretension of deniability, but not plausible deniability.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
This is probably going to sound racist, when I don't really intend it to. It's more "culturist" than anything else.
I work for a post-secondary institution with a large international student program. Most of our international students come from China, and when we break down the stats, the Chinese students are the most likely students to plagiarize others work, both in our online learning management system and in our face to face classroom environments.
What's more, they make no effort to hide their "enhanced group work" skills from their instructors. We've asked several of the students about this behaviour and have been told "that's how things work in China. It's commonplace there."
So it doesn't surprise me that Chinese hackers are trying to steal information from western companies.
If you hang you underwear out to dry, the neighbors will see it. Same with trade secrets. In order to be protected by law, one is required to make reasonable efforts to protect trade secrets. Obviously nowadays, when $500 billion worth of trade secrets are being stolen, these trade secrets are not being adequately protected. These secrets are, in effect, out on the line in plane sight, just like the aforementioned underwear. Too bad our government is more interested in stopping movie downloads.
Also, patent violations were an American concept back in the day (see Hollywood). Countries (and companies) on the way up view patents as a hindrance, shackling their energy and creativity. Countries on the way down view them as a benefit, holding on to their accumulated wealth and power even once they're no longer earning it.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
What?
That's the exact same thing as saying, because your safe can be cracked, then your trade secrets that you held in it are in plain site. In other words, because someone was able to steal them, then they are not covered.
Requiring a spy to steal your details, or for you entire computer system to be hacked in certainly a reasonable-enough effort at protecting your trade secrets.
People should be stopped from illegal downloads as it is stealing, but the level of focus definitely makes no sense in comparison to other issues facing the nation. The entire entertainment industry has a nonsensical amount of power, but that does not change the lunacy of the rest of your--hopefully--sarcastic point.
And it's perpetrated by every nation on the planet.
It's no secret that the Industrial Revolution got a kickstart in the US via "stolen IP." The legend is that Samuel Slater memorized drawings across the pond in Blighty and came here with them in his head.
Another example would be dumpster diving at your competitor's company. Cutting up start strips from stamping operations is not because you want them to fit in the recycling dumpster better. The same for shredding code printouts and printed spreadsheets.
To suddenly be surprised that this is being done electronically on a systematic scale is to be utterly ignorant of history. And frankly, singling out China smells of hypocrisy, especially after two decades of US manufacturing companies willingly transferring their core manufacturing to China completely oblivious to the long term effects.
Why reinvent the wheel from scratch when you can simply snag the wheel.dwg from your competitor's computer?
--
BMO
"it is easier and cheaper to steal rather than develop the legal way."
this sentiment is emanating from a nation that has no credibility on 'the legal way' to develop anything in the 21st century. A nation comprised of just a few megacorporations that hover over an infinite sea of frivolous patents, casting them forth like pokemon at the slightest sight of national or international competition that cannot be bought, licensed, bribed, or outlawed by their pre-pay capitalist representatives in government.
information assets amount to the brainfarts of talented engineers and scientists who are in many cases ostracized entirely from the most meaningful components of their work such as the revenue stream and general application.
yeah, its an ideological battle that americans immediately jump around and compare to the cold war, but its the ideology of
ideas come from people, and they must be nurtured and encouraged for the good of all humankind
versus
ideas come from people, and they must be incarcerated, exploited, litigated and profiteered until a group of old white men get another yacht.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Won't ever happen. If we tried that, Britain would come tapping us on the shoulder, and presenting a bill for all the trade secrets we lifted during the Industrial Revolution from them.
What China is doing to us is the same thing we've been done to other nations, albeit when this country was younger.
I am John Hurt.
Though the strange thing with "financial experts" seems to be that you will allways find another "expert" who tells you the exact opposite of what the previous guy said.
I have the feeling those finance gurus are more close to fortune-tellers than to scientists.
I'm sure you're correct about that feeling. "Economics" simply isn't a real science, it's pseudoscience as it doesn't produce any theories that can actually be tested. Unfortunately, our societies depend greatly on economics, so even though it's really not much different than shamans trying to cure diseases with chants and incantations and potions, it's the best we've got.
Am usually right there with y'all in demanding a complete redo on IP law, but not here.
Take anything we do well in America. Trace it down to materials science or some other obscure technological detail.
Now, *GIVE* that info to another country. Whoosh, there go a billion dollars of competitive advantage, or whatever the equivalent engineering/prototyping cost is.
In the cases of media, biology and pharm, it's a cost that some corp won't recoup. Bad juju. But in the case of weapons, armor and nuclear reactor designs, it's a cost that keeps china from marching on another nation. It doesn't take a huge amount of paranoia to suspect that Taiwan, South Korea, the Philippines, Indonesia, India and Japan remain sovereign partly because China isn't capable of our level of weaponry, submarine reactor longevity, space-based intelligence, etc.
There's no easy answer, and I'm not buying the cyberwarfare jingoism rants, but taking cybersecurity more seriously is important.