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Innovative Use of Plastics Could Cheaply Double Solar Cell Output

doug141 writes "In standard solar cells, much energy is lost (as heat) from photons mismatched to the capability of silicon to capture them. A new technique uses a pentacene layer to down-convert each hot (un-captureable) electron to two electrons that can be captured by standard silicon cells." You can read more at the University of Texas research group's web page.

30 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. Power companies by bonch · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It would be really interesting to see what happened if solar energy became affordable enough to power people's homes. Based on current technology, the cost of solar panels is several thousands of dollars for a typical home's electricity needs. Over the lifetime of the panels, that's about 30 cents per kilowatt hour, which is three times the cost of typical utility fees. I wonder if there would be resistance from power companies if people were able to put cheap solar panels on their houses, or if they would buy up all the patents so you had to buy your panels from them.

    1. Re:Power companies by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder if there would be resistance from power companies if people were able to put cheap solar panels on their houses, or if they would buy up all the patents so you had to buy your panels from them.

      They'd just institute daylight-based pricing. Use of electricity during the day = $0.05/kWh. Use of electricity an night = $0.50/kWh. Now you've got to solve the battery problem AND the solar panel problem.

    2. Re:Power companies by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Informative

      The power companies won't mind if solar is used for large-draw things like daytime AC, when they themselves have to buy power at peak rates. They'd actually become more profitable with less demand.

      The use for night-time heating is a solved problem - store the heat in something massive during daytime hours - you don't even need to take the losses from converting to electricity and back.

    3. Re:Power companies by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Three times the cost of typical, maybe, but it still makes sense in certain places.

      Hawaii, for example, has a typical 30c rate. The bigger issue is that most of the locals can't afford the capital to do the installation in the first place.

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
    4. Re:Power companies by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They'd just institute daylight-based pricing. Use of electricity during the day = $0.05/kWh. Use of electricity an night = $0.50/kWh. Now you've got to solve the battery problem AND the solar panel problem.

      Nah, then all you need is batteries and a charging and inverter system. No solar panels at all. Because all you'd have to do is store electricity from the company during the day, and use it at night or when the power is down. Right now, there's no great price advantage to doing this, but the second the day and night prices diverge significantly, there would be. And THEN, if they caught on and changed it back, all you'd need to add would be panels. So this would be a very bad move for the power companies.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    5. Re:Power companies by CarlDenny · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's an insanely ignorant suggestion.

      That would incentivize people to move their power usage from off-peak times to on-peak times, forcing power companies to build *more* capacity for on-peak utilization. The pricing you describe is the *exact opposite* of the actual economy of the power industry, and any company that tried it would end up out of business.

      The fact that solar only generates during the day makes is a boon for power companies, it prevents them from having to build expensive plants for peak production while leaving lots of profits in providing baseline power with existing investments.

    6. Re:Power companies by kkwst2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Now many states have have laws requiring essentially that the power company buy or give you credit for anything you produce. So you get the panels installed and apply for a two way meter from the electric company. They keep track of how much you produce and subtract it off your consumption essentially.

      Furthermore, some states require utility companies to use so much power from solar, and this is done essentially by buying credits from people making solar. So in NJ if I have 10 kW worth of panels I might generate enough credits in a year to sell for $6000. It is essentially the state dictating that the power company has to pay me money for making solar energy. That is on top of the savings you get from using less electricity.

      So with federal rebates, a 10 kw system costs around $35k to $40k to install. But with the credits and electricity savings, it will "pay for itself" in 5 years or so.

      In NJ this fell apart a little bit because everyone saw it was a good deal and there is now an oversupply of these credits, so the value of the credits are less than half of what they were last year. Time will tell how it all shakes out. If I got no money for the credits, the panels should pay for themselves in 20 years. So it will be somewhere between a ton of free money and a marginal investment.

    7. Re:Power companies by nprz · · Score: 2

      Japan has a significant price difference between using electricity at night (11pm-7am) and during the day. Since usage is down at night, it is much cheaper, so people do things that might require a lot of electricity (e.g. washer, dish-washer).

      But I doubt the price difference is enough for people to invest in the batteries & inverter system.

    8. Re:Power companies by onepoint · · Score: 2

      Interesting that the credit is trade-able. In Florida, the net meter rules don't give you the option of trading your credits with a debit account. Also FPL ( florida power and light ) have limited the amount of KW you can produce at any given moment and pump into the system to 5KW due to line issues ( until they upgrade, that's the peak you can provide )

      I find that Florida (of all places ) is the unfriendliest when it comes to solar power. If Florida got it's act together, it could help produce and supply and export energy.

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    9. Re:Power companies by jbengt · · Score: 2

      Use of electricity during the day = $0.05/kWh. Use of electricity an night = $0.50/kWh. Now you've got to solve the battery problem AND the solar panel problem.

      Nah, then all you need is batteries and a charging and inverter system. No solar panels at all. Because all you'd have to do is store electricity from the company during the day, and use it at night or when the power is down. Right now, there's no great price advantage to doing this, but the second the day and night prices diverge significantly, there would be.

      Hhmmm, it seems those sorts of rates are already in use.

    10. Re:Power companies by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It already is. I can buy 5KW worth of solar for under $30,000. coupled with changing energy consumption to reasonable levels and having a home that is not a giant screen door for heat like most american homes, one can spend the price of a single mid sized car to go off the grid.

      $30K is dirt cheap for that (complete with intertie inverter and battery storage) Most new homes built waste more on marble countertops and other stupidity like too large of a sq footage.

      A reasonable sized 1500 sq foot home built by an archetict that actually knows what he/she is doing can be 100% solar with heat and electric in a climate as far north as 45deg latitude and cost the same as a current stupid sized house.

      It's already there, Problem is people prefer 3 car garages, 5 bedrooms, 2900 sq foot with cathedral ceilings, marble counters and giant front yards to sane sized homes that are at least energy star in insulation and with near zero costs for Heat, AC and electricity.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    11. Re:Power companies by The+Askylist · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not tradeable in the UK, either - what we have here is called a "feed-in tariff", which is a government set price per KWh that is paid for a fixed period.

      The UK solar "industry" (read: the hucksters who jumped on this money tree when it first came in) are now bleating because the FIT has been halved (though it's still 30 cents or more per KWh), and their business model is no longer profitable.

      Would be so much better if there was a market in the tariffs, and the solar option could then grow at a sensible rate.

    12. Re:Power companies by fnj · · Score: 2

      Er, the "cost of the electricity" from photovoltaic panels *IS* nothing but the amortization of the "up-front capital." Google "present value" some time.

    13. Re:Power companies by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      They recently raised our water bill by 30%. Their excuse was the success of water conservation efforts. They bill based on usage, and since usage went down and yet they had the same infrastructure to support they had to raise rates. I'm not shitting you, that really happened. I'd also like to mention at this point that I live next to one of the largest freshwater seas in the world. So the need for water conservation was rather questionable in the first place.

    14. Re:Power companies by mlts · · Score: 2

      The battery problem is solvable with a boring, low-tech solution: Flywheels. With magnetic bearings, they don't require that much maintenance, and barring physical damage, are harder to kill than batteries. If you drain a conventional battery to 0 volts repeatedly, it will die. Drain a flywheel to 0 RPM... and it just stops.

      Batteries are important for research for portable energy storage, such as cars and such. However, where large flywheels can be built they are the best tool for the job, until battery energy density puts physical storage of kinetic energy in the dust.

    15. Re:Power companies by Xyrus · · Score: 2

      "Over the lifetime of the panels, that's about 30 cents per kilowatt hour, which is three times the cost of typical utility fees."

      [citation needed]

      I'm not sure how you arrived at that number.

      You can get grid-tie kits around 9KW for less than $20K. Double that for installation, to be generous. That's $40K, before Fed and State incentives. But for the sake of argument, let's leave those out. The 9KW system provides enough power to cancel out the electrical usage of the average US home (958 KWh/month see http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs).

      The typical rated lifespan of solar panels is 25 years. But again, lets be generous and say it is only 20 years. So $40K over 20 years for an average monthly electrical usage of 958 KWh/month (see http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs) works out to 17 cents per KWh.

      That's before any incentives were thrown in. You get a 30% federal tax credit for solar panel installations, so that $40K is now $28K, dropping the 20 year rate down to about 12 cents per KWh. Numerous states offer additional incentives which can bring the price even lower. And these rates won't go up over time like electric rates will.

      Maybe 10 years ago you numbers were correct, but that certainly isn't the case anymore. In fact, if you live in the sunny areas of the country you can get average KWh prices down into the single digits using solar.

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      ~X~
  2. Improving solar cells by JohnWiney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Slashdot seems to post a lot of stories about improved solar cells, but solar cells never seem to improve.

    1. Re:Improving solar cells by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sure they do.

      There are two problems though:

      1. That somebody in a lab figured out a way to make a cell 15% more efficient doesn't mean it's going to be manufactured tomorrow.

      2. 15% more efficient means "15% more efficient than what we started with". This means "We took a cell that coverts 15% of the Sun's energy into electricity and made it covert 17.5%", not 30% as people seem to expect.

    2. Re:Improving solar cells by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Slashdot seems to post a lot of stories about improved solar cells, but solar cells never seem to improve.

      True, but only if you define a double-digit percentage drop in unit price every year as "not improving".

    3. Re:Improving solar cells by DamonHD · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Only if you don't count the fact that (for example) Sanyo/Panasonic HIT panels are good enough that even on my tiny roof I sufficiently overproduce so as to be carbon neutral for all primary energy, and that for now my effective energy bills are zero too. Oh, no, no improvement.

      Rgds

      Damon

      --
      http://m.earth.org.uk/
    4. Re:Improving solar cells by Anrego · · Score: 2

      It's improving.. little by little..

      Actually compared to other "far off" technologies, solar is making surprising progress. I check on it every year or so, and while it's still not practical for my purposes yet.. there is definite real world "in stores now" improvement, as well as exciting stuff being done in labs.

    5. Re:Improving solar cells by youn · · Score: 2

      Why is this modded troll? It is actually quite insightful.

      Pardon my ignorance but I regularly see articles speaking of a material that could double, triple... sometimes more collected energy potential... what does this really mean? compared to what? can these innovations be combined? what does it mean for the general public? Yes, these articles sound cool, yes we all want to be able to tap the potential of free energy... but if solar cells had improved that much, we'd all be running on free energy.

      To be fair, there has been improvements... just not as much as is touted in the articles

      --
      Never antropomorphize computers, they do not like that :p
    6. Re:Improving solar cells by rhakka · · Score: 2, Informative

      the cost of solar has been reducing quickly.

      I quoted a twice, from the same company, 1 year apart. the second quote added almost 30% capacity for the same price, after only 1 year.

      times they are a'changing.

    7. Re:Improving solar cells by thejaq · · Score: 2

      The boom (70% decline in solar prices) has coincided with global recession. Energy use has declined or remained stagnant. Hence no solar demand (or any demand). Massive oversupply as China scales up production. Yet still, the pipeline for solar and wind exceeds fossil fuels everywhere except China. Give them until 2015. The future is already set in stone.

    8. Re:Improving solar cells by evilviper · · Score: 2

      With so glib an interpretation, I can see why you don't understand...

      Sometimes the stories about solar panel improvements on /. are about consumer cells, but often they aren't... they might be about the high efficiency solar cells used in satellites.

      There seems to be one very simple underlying theme on solar panels across the board... there is no shortage of space. While improvements in efficiency are great, and will see some use, mostly people want the cheapest solaar panels they can get, and don't care that they're 2% efficient, because their roof is big enough, and that (hypotetical) 2% efficiency isn't a bad thing because the fuel in question is free, anyhow.

        Many claim the be cheap, but that's usually an estimate of a price at full-scale production, compared to buying more cells at current prices. In the interim, the cost of those cells goes down, and production can't go from 0 to 100 instantly, so the combination of the two conspire to make the new technology stillborn. The technology here might go the same way, or it might really be dirt cheap enough and close enough to ready to roll out that it'll be the exception to the rule. Take your pick, and become an angel investor if you think you've got all the answers.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  3. Vindicated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    This effect has been known theoretically for quite a while, and experimentally for a few years at least. Look up the literature on "singlet fission" or "multiexciton generation." The process works by photon excitation to a singlet excited state, followed by the reversion of that excited state into 2 triplet excited states with roughly half the energy. Thus the extra energy that would normally be lost as heat can go into exciting another photoelectron. The neat thing about this paper is that, for the first time, the researchers were actually able to show a >100% photoelectron generation, meaning that they got more electrons out than photons that they put in. This is a huge vindication to this direction of research, which has recently been seeing quite a bit of skepticism as to its legitimacy (since not having greater than 100% photoelectron generation can be explained away by other possibly competing processes, but the result from Zhu's lab pretty much nukes those competing theories).

    1. Re:Vindicated by deroby · · Score: 2

      Man, when I started reading your comment I was close to adding ".. but I simply reconfigured the Heisenberg Modulators so the deflector shield now tripled the opticron conversion rate so its alignment is now in conflusion with the beta-cronicles defrigilator....
      Glad it started make sense after the third sentence =)

      --
      If there is one thing to be learned on slashdot, it has to be sarcasm.
  4. Oil is too important by plopez · · Score: 3, Interesting

    to waste as fuel.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  5. A lost opportunity by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We use FIT and other means of subsidies to drive solar and wind, but ignore other solutions. However, in just about every single case, it is a retrofit, which is expensive. But, there is a simple solution for all of this.

    America, or even states, could require that all new homes and buildings under 4 stories, have 50% or possibly 100% of their HVAC (heating and AC required) come from on-site AE. This would actually encourage several things:
    1) a number of contractors will simply throw up solar panels equal to the amount.
    2) a number of other contractors would heavily insulate and drop the energy needs to the point, where a MINIMAL amount of AE is needed.
    3) a number would try something like geo-thermal HVAC combined with 2 to allow them to drop it to one panel.

    Basically, by adding this requirement, it would change the NEW buildings and separate them from the old ones. Considering the number of foreclosures that we have now, the last thing that we really need are new buildings that compete with many of these foreclosed buildings. At the same time, it pushes various AE without loads of incentives, while allowing contractor to move to whatever direction is economical and will sell.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  6. Freeways by foniksonik · · Score: 2

    I'd still like to see all freeways lined on either side and in the middle with PV panels. Even better would be to put salt beds under to store the energy.

    --
    A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.