Slashdot Mirror
Canonical To Remove Sun Java From Repositories, Users' Machines
New submitter an_orphan writes "Apparently, Oracle's 'Operating System Distributor License for Java' is expired, causing Ubuntu to not only remove sun-java from the partner repository, but from user's machines."
To shoot oneself in the foot?! I just don't get it. Wouldn't Oracle want to have their platform deployed as widely as possible? Someone's asleep at the helm. Just like at the media companies. Seems some big corporations these days are like chicken running around headless...
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
The difference is that automatic updates are optional for Ubuntu, so if you've turned them on you have already opted in to Canonical managing your system. This is especially true because in this case there are security reasons to remove the packages.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
From the article: "Oracle, in retiring the ‘Operating System Distributor License for Java’, means Canonical no longer have permission to distribute the package." So it's not that Oracle has lost their right to distribute Java (JDK) or something, but they are retiring the license Canonical is using that granted them the right to distribute it with Ubuntu. The summary also states (correctly) that Ubuntu will remove the sun-java package from the repository and user's machines, but does not state why: “Due to the severity of the security risk, Canonical is immediately releasing a security update for the Sun JDK browser plugin which will disable the plugin on all machines.” Ubuntu’s Marc Deslauriers wrote in a mail to the Ubuntu Security Mailing list. “This will mitigate users’ risk from malicious websites exploiting the vulnerable version of the Sun JDK.” Summarizing: there are two things going on here, one is that Oracle has revoked the license Canonical is using to distribute Java (JDK) freely so it will not come with Ubuntu anymore. Java must now be downloaded from Oracle's site. Second: The java jdk package will be removed from user's computers because of severe security holes. Java must now be downloaded from Oracle's site. So, two things, one article and one terrible summary.
Sensationalist headline is sensationalist.
Ubuntu will still have the OpenJDK, which is maintained in part by Oracle. "Sun Java" refers to a specific JVM installation.
All the while OpenJDK still doesn't work with half of the stuff out there, for example Juniper's SSL VPN.
Great! Java: Compile once, works nowhere.
Ubuntu uses OpenJDK Java by default. Users have for years had the option to switch out the default OpenJDK Java for an alternative package in the 3rd party repository which is Sun Java. That alternative is being removed. In fact, it has never been available in the latest Oneiric 11.10 release of ubuntu. In the latest release OpenJDK is the default & the only java available from the package repos.
Most people use OpenJDK on Ubuntu and for them this news means nothing.
If you're using an older release (11.04 or earlier) and you have sun-java installed, simply remove the package & install default-jdk. problem solved.
Oh shit! I forgot to click "Post Anonymously"...
Gentoo saw the license expiring, and did a proactive thing: flipped the "fetch restriction" flag back on, forcing users to pull it manually and slap it into the right place to install/upgrade.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
On Linux, most java developers consider that OpenJDK is the default implementation and that Sun JDK is more or less discontinued.
OpenJDK is a GPL release of Sun's code. It is the official Java (SE) implementation :
http://blogs.oracle.com/henrik/entry/moving_to_openjdk_as_the
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
On Linux, most java developers consider that OpenJDK is the default implementation and that Sun JDK is more or less discontinued.
And yet, a customer that I used to support has an app that will not run on OpenJDK, only on Sun Java. I do not know if it is sniffing the JVM or if it makes use of an undocumented feature AKA bug but it won't even load with OpenJDK. No, I don't have the source.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
You could argue that by putting in your password when update manager asks for it, you are agreeing to let Canonical update your machine.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
with a different water pump. problem solved!!!
other than your car being out of commission for several days, and untold problems being encountered due to the incompatabilities between the old water pump and the new water pump. but whatever.
in the fantasy land of free software, you can replace word with openoffice, exchange with ????, and it wont cost anyone anything!
OpenJDK is based on the open-sourced version of Java, and Canonical continues to distribute that (and it's the default on Ubuntu). What's being removed is the official Sun (now Oracle) Java packages. They used to include those as well, because there were some compatibility issues with OpenJDK and some apps (especially commercial apps).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Whoah. Tone down on the bitterness man. I wish I had some of your insight into the world - on second thoughts I'm glad I don't.
They've targeted customers who are either spending somebody else's money (mainly the children of the wealthy living off of "daddy's money" or trust funds), those who are financially foolish (people who buy useless gadgets on credit), and those seeking a modern religion (the so-called Apple fanatics)
Yeah - those are the *only* people who buy Apple gadgets. Those millions and millions of foolish people living off daddy's money. Damn them! Damn them to Hell!
This has let them put out sub-par products with pretty horrible limitations,
Yeah, those MacBook Airs are just *rubbish* man. I *totally* can't see why Intel is giving other notebook vendors $100m just to try and come up with a reasonable competitor
but they can still sell them outrageous prices, and coupled with third-world manufacturing it allows them to make a very sizable profit.
obviously Samsung (and by extension Google), Amazon, Motorola, HTC and the rest are *good* companies because the fact that they have to sell their stuff at half the price just to try and get people to buy one and therefore don't make a profit at all means that *their* exploration of third world labour is somehow alright?
TL;DR version: OMFG get off your high horse mr AC anti-apple troll.
Will it be removed from the user's machine, or just (I'm going to guess not-so-sliently) "upgraded" to OpenJDK? I'm suspecting the latter. I'll bet there is a big box that comes up, warns the user Oracle's Java is being replaced, and that if they choose not to upgrade, that no new security updates will be forthcoming. Frankly, the bad press from replacing Java is probably better than the bad press that would've come had they left an insecure, non-updateable version of the JVM on all their releases.
I have encountered numerous problems in recent years with Java code that simply doesn't work on IcedTea. It's not doing anything clever or undocumented. It runs fine on Windows, on MacOS, and on the same Linux boxes but with a different Java run-time. On some of these projects, we had so many problems that we explicitly no longer support IcedTea and won't even consider support requests from customers who insist on using it.
I don't know about any other JREs based on OpenJDK, but IcedTea is so bug-ridden as to be unusable, and has been for a long time.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
While I love to bash on Ubuntu on every (reasonable and merited) opportunity available, and they certainly aren't scarce, this isn't one of them. As others have already pointed out, the packages were removed because Oracle will not license updates, and the latest distributable version has important security vulnerabilities. It would be irresponsible to keep the current packages in the distribution and illegal to update them.
More importantly, this move is exactly what Oracle wants done, and no, it's not any sort of evil move. Dalibor Topic explains in his blog the reasons behind this change in licensing: OpenJDK is (the basis of) the reference implementation for Java 7, and the Sun (now Oracle) JDK implementation is now (going to be) based on OpenJDK; the gratis, non-free licensing for the Sun (now Oracle) JDK was a temporary solution that's reached the end of its applicability:
It was always intended to be a temporary solution, and the final solution has always been migrating to OpenJDK. Yeah, it sucks, compatibility is far from complete, and things will break as a result of this move, but it's always been the plan, and it's not Canonical fucking it up this time. For reference, as one of the comments in TFA points out, Debian did it too.
In short: nothing to see here; move along. If this makes you lose sleep, maybe you shouldn't have used Java, and maybe you should migrate to something better.
I work in a Java shop. We run Sun Java 6 on a mix of Solaris and Ubuntu. I'll be handrolling a deb from the Sun Java tarball precisely because not everything can be trusted to work identically between Sun Java 6 and OpenJDK 6.
We just recently hit a weird bug which turned out to be a "how did that ever work?" moment - revolving around different implementation-specific behaviours in Sun Java 6u24 for Solaris SPARC and Sun Java 6u26 for Linux.
We'll be moving to OpenJDK, but only after thorough testing. OpenJDK 6 is a proper Java, but we've discovered the hard way not to make any such move without thorough testing. Because programmers are human and bugs happen. Never trust, always verify.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
No, they're just going to remove it. If you want OpenJDK, you have to install that by hand.
For almost all users, OpenJDK is just fine and is the one to use. (e.g. any Java plugins in the browser, almost any Java app). Anyone who is affected by this went to some effort to install Sun Java by hand specifically.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Software which someones tested and released under a given JDK was generally using it for a reason. I can, for one, specifically say that a project I'm working on will specifically *not* run under the OpenJDK.
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
It doesn't - bad summary conflates "no license to distribute" with "security hole" - the security hole is why Ubuntu needs to fix this, but the only fix they can apply is to remove the package since they can't distribute the fixed version any more.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
"Already demonstrated" how? To my knowledge, NO app has ever been remotely killed on iOS, though they have said they have the ability to do so. However, both Amazon Kindle (with the unlicensed "1984" edition) and Google (repeatedly to nuke apps that turned out to be trojans) have done so.
Well, you're going to have a problem in the future, because Oracle is replacing Sun's Java with OpenJDK. It's going to be the "real" java from now on. The summary, like usual, left this important fact out.
I can understand pulling it from the repositories for future installs, but from a user that installed it while the license was still in effect? Really uncool.
Aside from pissing people off in general, just think of all the production servers they may kill by doing this. And the lost customers, time, money..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm curious. What specifically is lacking in OpenJDK that causes your project to be incompatible? Finding out from someone who's been-there-done-that is much preferable to hitting that specific brick wall yourself.
I had thought it was only a few things that were different - sound (fixed), serial IO (fixed... I thought) for example.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Nor has any app ever been remotely killed on Ubuntu. FUD much?
Not just that no app has been killed by Ubuntu, but if you switch don't opt in to automatic updates then Ubuntu doesn't even have the ability to do remote kills without your agreement, which, despite the fanbois moderation of my above post, has been confirmed to exist by Steve Jobs himself.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
That's not true. I have a Lion system right here and it's not an option.
You can have Software Update fetch updates in the background automatically and let you know when they are downloaded, but it *absolutely does not* install them automatically. You *must* authenticate with an admin account first.
You can turn off background downloading too, it's merely a convenience factor.
Zenbook, yes - on specs and price. Series 9 not even close, even though it lists for more. The Sony is a good match performance-wise that would have been great with the addition of a decent graphics processor, which it should have included given its premium price - it isn't that extreme except in price. Apple has a distinct edge because it is setting the price points and the competition is in the unenviable position of matching specs or bettering them - at this point only one competitor is seriously challenging Apple.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
Before I start, let me clarify that I am not a *fanboi* but the primary maintainer of a least a dozen production machines each of Windows 7, OS X, and Ubuntu linux. Therefore I feel I'm qualified to shed some light on your misconceptions. Take this response not as *hate* but as an assumption that you are not willfully ignorant about what you're talking about, and you just need someone knowledgeable to clear up your obvious confusion. That said...
truth is truth
conceded
You wanna know why Linux is dead last and going exactly nowhere?
Dead last on desktops. Number one in the server space. Number one in handhelds. PC ownership has stagnated. The mobile space is where all the growth is happening, and linux-based OS's are eating everyone but Apple's lunch in this field. Even Apple is still relegated to playing a strong second fiddle.
There are no anti-competitve bundling deals with PC distributors in the linux world. There's also little in the way of manufacturer and application support. Those are the real reasons. Less technical and more political than you seem to think.
you people really really REALLY suck at GUIs
This is a gross generalization. Gnome is really no more or less user friendly than any of the commercial alternatives. All of the several different viable options for linux destkop environments have their strengths and faults. It's not any different for Windows or OS X.
While you may think some damned 70s terminal is the essence of nirvana
For at least the last 5 years, use of the terminal on an Ubuntu desktop system is about as central as it is on Windows or OS X. Pros do it for convenience, but it isn't necessary unless you're trying to do something unorthodox. This is an old, dead, troll of an argument against Linux. Try a modern Linux desktop, it's really not as bad as you seem to think it is.
you are missing features that Windows had a fricking decade ago
By the same token, windows is still missing many features Linux had 20 years ago.
Where the fuck is the roll back drivers button? How about the find drivers button? You expect the user to magically know the make/model/rev of any and all pieces of hardware
Driver management in Linux is handled through the package manager, because drivers are software. I haven't needed to roll back a driver, ever. I did so exactly once to enable visual effects and it was complete cake. No CLIs were employed. The last time I needed to use lspci to determine the model of a piece of hardware because it wasn't autodetected was 2006. The last few releases of Ubuntu even notify me when there's a better proprietary (manufacturer) driver than the bundled open one, and automatically install THAT.
you couldn't put all these pieces together into a solid intuitive OS if someone put a gun to the head of RMS
so wait, *you're* the one worried about getting "hate" from "fanbois"? Ummm...
What is Linux now? It is a CLI OS with a GUI shell bolted on top
An OS is not "CLI or GUI". OS's work to abstract hardware from software. That is their purpose. OSX is a mach microkernel OS with a GUI on top. Windows 7 is a NT-family kernel with a GUI on top.
You're obviously really upset about linux. I don't really understand why, it sounds like you're really happy with Win7 and that's fine. You can rage about terminals and drivers, and it's not going to change any Linux users' minds about their choice in OS. And since win7 can't run ZFS and won't take the GUI code out of protected kernel space, your angry rant isn't going to change my mind either.
Point being that choice is good, each OS has its strengths and weaknesses. I salute your right to choose and even though windows is far and away the hardest of the three to administer, and you clearly have no need of the superior features Linux does offer, I'm glad you're happy with it.
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
As someone who has to support Java applications (with Swing based front ends) on Windows, Mac OS X, and various Unix flavours I can say with some confidence that OpenJDK is as good as an Oracle branded Java runtime, and better than an IBM branded one. We (meaning my employer) support our apps on IBM's Java runtime when OpenJSDK isn't an option, but our preference is now Oracle's releases or OpenJDK with no real preference for either. The significant thing is that only a year ago this wasn't the case - we considered Oracle's releases to be the preferred platform over OpenJDK. Since then, we have seen no bug reports that have turned out to be down to bugs in OpenJDK that didn't exist in Oracle's releases. Of course if you're fucking about and using unpublished API's from the com.sun packages, then that would explain your claim to not support OpenJDK, but then by definition of what is a "certified Java application", if you are using such API's then you have no reason to complain that your apps don't work as expected under OpenJDK.
Well, you're going to have a problem in the future, because Oracle is replacing Sun's Java with OpenJDK. It's going to be the "real" java from now on. The summary, like usual, left this important fact out.
Almost right, but not quite. As I understand it, Sun's (now Oracle's) JDK will still exist, but it will no longer be the Reference Implementation. OpenJDK will become the Reference Implementation.
This does, of course, mean that OpenJDK will be the "real" Java, and that there should (in theory) be no differences between Oracle JDK and OpenJDK— and if there are differences, then it's Oracle JDK that's wrong. But Oracle's JDK will still exist.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein