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North Korean Dictator Kim Jong Il Dead at 70

As reported by numerous sources, Kim Jong Il has died at the age of 70 (69 by some tallies), after 17 years as the brutal head of North Korea. While the cause of death is uncertain, Bloomberg News says "Kim probably had a stroke in August 2008 and may have also contracted pancreatic cancer, according to South Korean news reports."

9 of 518 comments (clear)

  1. Meh by spaceplanesfan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    World has now one asshole less.

    1. Re:Meh by QuailRider · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What makes him an asshole? He was in a really difficult position. He played lots of mind games with US, South Korea and rest of the world because he had to. This whole thing predates his leadership.

      What makes him an asshole? Are you serious? Lets see... making sure his army was fed before anyone else while watching over a million (!) civilians starve to death. Forced labor camps with conditions not much better than Nazi concentration camps. Clandestine kidnapping of Japanese nationals. Stunts like the unprovoked sinking of his neighbor's vessels, and firing medium range missiles over the border, then stamping his feet like a spoiled brat with demands for increased food aid. Shooting of tourists for wandering away from their "resort" compound. Aggressively pursuing nuclear weapons and military might while ensuring that his people were too hungry and scared to revolt. Establishing a god-king cult of personality. Having anyone who wants to leave that hellhole of a country executed on the spot. Punishing entire families (including small children) for "crimes" of individuals. Secretly compiling a vast store of luxury goods and spirits for disbursement to his party elite, while claiming to be a shining example of humble socialist perfection. Raising his son to believe he's the rightful heir to the universe, thereby ensuring that the cycle of arrogance and brutality continues for another generation. That, my dear reader, fulfills my definition of a grade A asshole.

  2. To bad south park is in the off season by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They would have a field day with this.

  3. Re:It's a big deal by ChatHuant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would start by allowing free speech, criticism of the government

    And you'd be instantly deposed by the second tier of the leadership; the people who made it good during the old regime, and who would be jailed or worse if the regime failed or if it became more democratic.

    The first thing you need to do is consolidate your hold on power. Remove the old guard, replace people in key positions with your men. Take special care to ensure control over the armed forces - army, police, people's "militias". Make nice or be sure you control non-governmental leaders of opinion, (like religious figures), if such exist. Keep your people honest enough that they won't have too much of a vested interest in keeping the old society style. Only after that should you start opening your society, maybe during your second or third year or thereabouts.

    For a relatively good example see how Gorbachev handled his reforms in the former USSR - he started by calling for changes, but kept specifics rather vague, in the meantime making sure the old apparatchiks were removed from power (for example he replaced the powerful conservative Gromyko with the younger reformist Shervadnadze). About one year later he started with the economic reforms (a.k.a. perestroika), at the same time continuing the consolidation of his position. Only after he was sure of his control, in 1988 (three years after being elected secretary of the communist party), did Gorbatchev introduce the "glasnost" liberalization reforms (greater freedom of speech, greater freedom of the press, less control of criticism of the government, release of a big number of political detainees).

    Perestroika didn't work, because Gorbachev, whatever his other qualities, was still a communist at heart, and never pushed the reforms far enough. Glasnost was however quite successful, and, IMHO, was a direct contributor to the fall of communism in Eastern Europe, and to the subsequent disollution of the USSR.

  4. Re:It's a big deal by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It would cause turmoil in the country.

    No it wouldn't. You made that up without providing evidence.

    Since China is a democratic country

    China is not a democratic country. You can't have true democracy without free speech. Really, this is an important point. If you don't get it, you will never see reality clearly.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  5. Re:It's a big deal by Arancaytar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh come on, Castro may be a communist and a dictator, but on his best days he couldn't hope to match the shithouse-rat-crazy antics of the Dear Leader.

  6. Re:It's a big deal by Runaway1956 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry, phantomfive - but I think that Sharklaser is speaking with a cultural background that you lack.

    Personally, I've never been to China. I've only met a few Chinese people. I don't like China because it is communist, and because they are working hard to steal American jobs, American tech, and they are working hard to dominate American interests.

    Despite my likes and dislikes, I've read enough to understand that Chinese culture has almost no resemblance to my own culture. The fact that I have traveled, seen other cultures, and due to the fact that my own relatives represented different cultures gives me some framework to understand what Sharklaser seems to be saying.

    The fact is, you don't just turn a culture upside down overnight, unless you enjoy chaos. People who have lived a certain way for generations simply aren't going to accept radical change in ten years, or even twenty.

    How many years have the women's libbers been working on their agenda? And, women still bitch about that "glass ceiling". Change doesn't happen overnight, or even within a lifetime. It takes centuries to make really big changes in a culture, UNLESS you're wiling to accept a lot of turmoil.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  7. Re:It's a big deal by St.Creed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The nukes were on Russian ships, the emplacement was paid for by Russia, and all the money came from Russia as well. I doubt Castro had much to say in how the crisis was resolved. Castro approved the plan to install them, but that's about as far as his involvement went. Everything else was decided directly between Moscow and Washington. You can check out the wikipedia page with the timelines for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis

    I don't think he was crazy. I don't think he was a communist either. I just think he was someone who, like a lot of folks, started out the right way but somewhere ended up missing a turn and then took the road down to Hell - paved, as always, with numerous good intentions.

    --
    Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
  8. Re:It's a big deal by geminidomino · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What? No, if you know of a case where free speech has caused problems, bring it up.

    Not that I agree with GP's point, but in the interest of completeness:

    Westboro Baptist Church.