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Exoplanets Spotted Orbiting Dead Star

astroengine writes "Scientists have found a system of planets that appears to have survived being engulfed by their dying parent star. The discovery raises questions about the ultimate fate of our solar system when the sun runs out of hydrogen gas in about 5 billion years and violently transform into an expanding red giant star. Scientists believe all the planets from Earth inward will be destroyed when the sun expands, but new research suggests that if planets are large enough, they may outlast their parent star's death, even if they are engulfed."

76 comments

  1. Oh come On. by drainbramage · · Score: 3

    5 billion years from now that could be us!

    Don't you want to know how it will end?

    --
    No brain, no pain.
    1. Re:Oh come On. by niktemadur · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Five billion years from now... oh fuck it, I need a drink.

      Sobering up now, this "dead star" is really a white dwarf, isn't it?
      Time scales become truly mind-boggling when, after eons as a white dwarf, the nuclear reaction peters out, the "ember" still emitting heat for eons upon eons.

      If the proton decays, when the last white dwarf goes out, around 10^14 years from now, the Universe passes from the Stelliferous Era to the Degenerate Era, everything slowly cooling down, matter slowly disintegrating or being sucked into black holes, beyond the point when all free-floating matter has reached 1-to-1 odds of evaporating, roughly 10^40 years from now.

      If the proton decays, then the Universe enters the Black Hole Era, when there is no more matter to be sucked into singularities, so that they now begin the excruciatingly slow process of evaporating via Hawking Radiation. The last of the supermassive black holes will have evaporated by 10^100 from now. Then we enter a period of virtual infinity, named the Dark Era, the Universe inconceivably vast and empty and still accelerating.

      However, if the proton does NOT decay, circumstances and numbers become even more surreal/nasty, all stars NOT sucked into black holes reach 1-to-1 odds of becoming iron spheres at around 10^1500 years from now. That's right, all baryonic matter in the Universe will have frozen into an iron state. Finally, the last iron star will collapse into a neutron star or black hole at 10^10^76 (ten to the ten to the seventy six).

      And that's how thing will end and remain ended.

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    2. Re:Oh come On. by FuturePerson · · Score: 5, Funny

      And that's how thing[s] will end and remain ended.

      That's not true, actually. You see, beyond the accelerating universe, by the time of the end of which you speak, we will have built ... "God", for lack of a better word. By that time, we have looked at each particle and each vibration of each string and determined where it came from and where it is going (yes, there's no random), allowing us to calculate everything back to before the big bang.

      Everything will be known - every path of every falling leaf anywhere in the universe, ever. Every action, every thought and every feeling of every creature that ever lived will be known, in effect raising everyone from the dead in a big collective consciousness beyond this universe and all the matter and energy in it. Thankfully there must have been a universe about around here before, because out there on the outside, was matter we could build our collective of. We need all the matter in this universe. We need to start it again, in the exact same way it once started. Everything in this universe will all happen exactly as it happened and is happening and will happen once more.

      Why we need to do that? I'll get into that later, unless I've all ready mentioned it before. But now I have to go. These are very hectic days for this weary "time-traveler". My adventures on this earth at this point in history are not that important. They are dwarfed by the cosmic storyline, but they might be an amusing read if I get time to write about them.

      Do good. You will reap the benefits later.

      Sincerelly,
      Future Person

      --
      (Or did I dream it?)
    3. Re:Oh come On. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      And that's how thing[s] will end and remain ended.

      That's not true, actually. You see, beyond the accelerating universe, by the time of the end of which you speak, we will have built ... "God", for lack of a better word. B...

      The last question

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    4. Re:Oh come On. by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 1

      Errr.. I'll have what he is having. No, don't put it in a bag. I'll just smoke it here.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    5. Re:Oh come On. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't have enough everything to track and simulate everything.

  2. Define "Survive" in this context by bobcat7677 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So...your grave still exists on whats left of a scorched rock vs being completely destroyed leaving nothing but particles in space? Sounds WAY better!

    1. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by ClioCJS · · Score: 5, Funny

      if you are an interstellar archaeologist, it definitely is better!

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    2. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by twotacocombo · · Score: 1

      Sure, but who will come by to pick up the dead flowers and kick those pesky kids off the grounds after dark?

    3. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is great news in case it takes billions of years for the zombie apocalypse to finally happen. I don't want to miss out on the fun!

    4. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by bobcat7677 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      TFA mentioned the planets had lost significant portions of their mass to the intense heat. I doubt there would be anything left for an archaeologist to look at.

    5. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      So will my grave still exist on whats left on a scorched rock -- or not? You seem to want to have it both ways. Seems like you switched specifically to disagree with me. I used this to illustrate to "having it both ways" to my wife, who uses this tactic all too often ;)

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    6. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't know archaeologists bothered looking in layers of molten rock.

    7. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by mister_playboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would say your grave doesn't still exist on the remaining scorched rock, which I assume is the core of the planet. Your grave would have evaporated along with the outer layers of the former surface.

      Unless you have a really deep grave, anyway. :)

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    8. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm curious as to how much of the planets survive and how. It's not like the sun grows to that size for a short period of time, if it was hot enough to evaporate the surface surely it should be hot enough to evaporate all of the planet.

      Also if the planet loses mass wouldn't it move?

    9. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would say your grave doesn't still exist on the remaining scorched rock, which I assume is the core of the planet. Your grave would have evaporated along with the outer layers of the former surface.

      Unless you have a really deep grave, anyway. :)

      Unless the planets originally orbited at a much greater distance, and then as the star became smaller, they performed an orbital transfer. Although why one would have themselves buried on a Pluto-type world...

    10. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      The expansion phase is extremely short on those time scales. A star will typically remain a red giant for a few million years. Its surface temperature at that time will be only around 5000K, which is hot enough to evaporate the planet eventually, but not by orders of magnitude. The red giant has low density, so the heat exchange takes longer.
      All in all, it's not inconceivable that a planet's core might remain intact if it's on the very edge of expansion.

    11. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by SecurityGuy · · Score: 1

      if it was hot enough to evaporate the surface surely it should be hot enough to evaporate all of the planet.

      Rather like saying if a stove is hot enough to evaporate some of a pot of water it will evaporate all of it. Clearly not true.

      Also if the planet loses mass wouldn't it move?

      No. However as the star loses mass, it's gravity decreases and THAT causes the planet to spiral outward a bit. That's expected to happen to earth, too, however not far enough that we'll escape crisping.

    12. Re:Define "Survive" in this context by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      So...your grave still exists on whats left of a scorched rock

      Dig Up Yourself From Your GRAAAAAVE!!

      -- Children of Bodom, "Living Dead Beat"

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  3. Re:5 billion years from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If reincarnation turns out to be real, you will...

  4. So what they found out? by impaledsunset · · Score: 1

    Did they find planets orbiting a white dwarf at orbits that would have been inside the red giant, did they find planets orbiting a red giant or did they find planets orbiting inside the red giant? Is the star dead or dying? TFA doesn't seem to say anything about the former, and conflicts with TFS about the latter.

    1. Re:So what they found out? by berzerke · · Score: 3, Informative

      ...Is the star dead or dying?

      I read it as the star was dying and it engulfed the planets. Now the star is dead and shrunk back down, and they found some planets are still there.

  5. Re:5 billion years from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're on the wrong site.

  6. See Star Trek TNG episode... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    ... for what's going to happen to us.

    We're going to die off and be forgotten because humankind has turned away from space exploration and instead has focused on socialism. Stealing from the productive to give to the lazy is now our final fate.

    1. Re:See Star Trek TNG episode... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The only time humanity managed to leave LEO was funded by "stealing from the productive".

    2. Re:See Star Trek TNG episode... by Cigarra · · Score: 0

      There are some 5 BILLION YEARS down the road to "turn into" space exploration. Surely dedicating some hundreds of years somewhere in the future will take care of it, if it's feasible at all.

      What's wrong with focusing on fixing this planet first?

      --
      I don't have a sig.
    3. Re:See Star Trek TNG episode... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's wrong with focusing on fixing this planet first?

      Nothing, except many of its inhabitants are short-sighted, selfish, petty, nimrods, who only care about themselves and what effects them directly, and they are, to a great extent, the ones in charge/power making decisions that affect the rest.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    4. Re:See Star Trek TNG episode... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When most people talk about space exploration they think of NASA, rockets, and astronauts. But I imagine recycling, renewable energy, and pollution control instead. Assuming we don't come up with fast than light travel, it'll take millions of years to reach the next Earth. We'll probably be flying in huge city ships where sustainable living is critical to the success of the mission. If we can't even live sustainably on a planet for a million years, how can we hope to survive on a tiny ship for a million years?

    5. Re:See Star Trek TNG episode... by SpanglerIsAGod · · Score: 1

      Which is interesting since Start Trek is the epitome of socialism.

      --
      War doesn't show who is right - just who is left.
    6. Re:See Star Trek TNG episode... by RancidPeanutOil · · Score: 1

      Yes, that is correct. It was either one, or the other, - space exploration or socialism - and we have made our choice. Thanks a bunch, Obama! Now our children will be engulfed in plasma...

    7. Re:See Star Trek TNG episode... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      You do realize that humans in the Star Trek universe live in a 100% socialist society, right?

  7. Only 6 billion years left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    But... I was hoping humanity would still be around to see the copyrights to "Steamboat Willy" expire!

    1. Re:Only 6 billion years left? by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      I'm afraid you will have to wait for the heat death of the Universe. Perhaps when protons start decaying...

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  8. *dons his asbestos suit* by White+Flame · · Score: 1

    It's sure been a long time since I've used/seen $TITLE in online conversation.

  9. Sun by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'd love to Sun expand again, and devour Oracle.

    1. Re:Sun by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Funny

      Unfortunately, Larry Ellison's planet sized ego would survive, much like these burnt out planets the article mentions.

      Only the burnt out planets didn't have golden parachutes.

      Larry Ellison does.

    2. Re:Sun by networkBoy · · Score: 2

      Which we know he will use as a solar sail to outrun the expanding sun. The sheer massiveness of his ego will contain enough atmosphere for the journey to the next planet that he can host Oracle on.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  10. CCDs! by instagib · · Score: 4, Funny

    First a story about a comet flying through the sun unharmed. Now a story about planets surviving an expanding sun. Clearly a new PR strategy of the Climate Change Deniers (tm) !

    1. Re:CCDs! by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      Not good enough though.

      NSIDC predicts that by 2025 arctic tundra will turn from carbon sink to carbon emmision source.

      Yay for violent methane release! Better fill up that hummer! You're gonna need the gas considering how hard your AC is gonna be working.

    2. Re:CCDs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What?!? It's clearly a story by the Manbearpig worshipers about how humans are causing solar expansion!

      (captcha = "demented")

    3. Re:CCDs! by mug+funky · · Score: 0

      butthurt.

    4. Re:CCDs! by KeensMustard · · Score: 1

      Makes as much sense as their current gob-smackingly moronic theories...

    5. Re:CCDs! by ThePeices · · Score: 1

      Yes? You called?

    6. Re:CCDs! by RancidPeanutOil · · Score: 1

      And it will swing back around to hilarious again in 3... 2... 1...

  11. Re:5 billion years from now by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Who the *beep* cares? Seriously....

    Because probability dictates a good chance of a Futurama-like world will exist sometime during that span. If you want to be a part get started on your own stasis chamber, now. Don't forget to take a pizza with you, so you'll have something to eat when you emerge.

    In the meanwhile, I'm more worried about the survivors of those dead worlds, who are on their way here.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  12. Re:5 billion years from now by geekoid · · Score: 1

    I do.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  13. Re:5 billion years from now by geekoid · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can't wait for them to get here. I bet they're tasty.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  14. Re:5 billion years from now by thej1nx · · Score: 5, Funny

    >>In the meanwhile, I'm more worried about the survivors of those dead worlds, who are on their way here.

    That is perfectly okay. They will land a job in a newspaper somewhere...and wear their underwear outside their pants!

  15. So... you do agree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that we're doomed when the Sun starts burning out. There's a certain group of astronomers over in England who've been studying the Sun for the better part of a quarter of a century who've come to the conclusion that even though they know the Sun will not be going red giant and swallowing up the Earth for a very long time (some models are as short as 600,000 years, others up to 4 billion years), one mathematical model of theirs shows that just the simple increased solar output will cause a planet-wide drought that will render the Earth practically uninhabitable by life as we know it in as little as 1800-2200 more years from today. And that model has shown to be dead nuts accurate with the solar output increases recorded on Mars for as long as we've been able to measure the temperatures on Mars. Pretty scary stuff. If we've really only got in the neighborhood of two millenia to get our act together and build some deep-space-faring city-ships, then that ist really very little time left to accomplish that.

    1. Re:So... you do agree... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think we're on the same page. We just have different priorities. At least two things are needed to prevent human extinction:

      1. Huge-ass city-ships
      2. Sustainable living

      The thing is, #1 depends on #2 because there's no way we can build something that scale without stopping the burning of fossil fuels first. Both items need to advance in parallel, but #2 takes priorities in the short term.

    2. Re:So... you do agree... by mister_playboy · · Score: 2

      I'm sorry, but giving something like only 2000 years as a timescale for the Earth becoming "uninhabitable by life as we know it" due just to increases in solar output is just wildly inaccurate. The Sun is not changing that fast.

      I'd say 100 million years is about a short as you can credibly go, and obviously life will evolve during that time. The real killer would be the point at which liquid water can no longer exist on the surface, and that's more like a billion years in the future.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    3. Re:So... you do agree... by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      There is another reason why earth may become unhabitable due to heat within this timeframe.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  16. relevant paper on these planets here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v480/n7378/full/nature10631.html

  17. Re:5 billion years from now by mrops · · Score: 1

    Ummmm.... Well done. Just like I do my stake.

  18. Does this system have a name? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we please call it the Cajun system?

  19. Re:5 billion years from now by hrimhari · · Score: 1

    In my case, I was wondering if somebody would mention if the lack of a "permanent" energy source like the Sun would spell the death of our planet anyway, if the dying, expanding Sun didn't get rid of it first after all.

    --
    http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
  20. So we must embed a message in the Earth's core. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then, in many trillion years an intelligence might stumble across that message embedded in the rock that was the Earth. Then they, using some multiverse extra-physics principles of which we're unaware of, they can travel back in time to now. Once here they can establish a connection to our Internet at a local Starbucks, peruse this thread and forever know that the bird is the word.

  21. Re:5 billion years from now by DiogoBiazus · · Score: 2

    That is perfectly okay. They will land a job in a newspaper somewhere...and wear their underwear outside their pants!

    As a former resident of an exoplanet I must protest. This is an stereotype created by pop culture, not all aliens wear their underwear outside their pants, you insensitive clod!

  22. It comes down to one thing by jslarve · · Score: 1

    Climate change is b**ch!

  23. Another possibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's also possible that between the expanding star and loss of inner planets, the other planetary orbits were disrupted, one or more planets were ejected from the system and formerly outer planets migrated inward.

  24. Of more interest on that site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is one of the other articles on the bottom

    Seven popular websites that are dying
    http://news.discovery.com/tech/seven-popular-website-dying-110825.html

    #8: Slashdot

  25. Dead Star? by Shadyman · · Score: 1

    That's no moon!

  26. Just 5 billion years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Awww, jeez. The Cubs will never win the series now.

  27. Sure... what's next??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Exoplanets with stripes???

  28. It does not matter in the long run by aepervius · · Score: 2

    In 800 million year to 1 billion year the sun luminosity will have increased so much as to make existence of life and even water in liquid form a rarity on earth, baring complete extinction.

    As for those purporting we should think about earth extinguishing and prepare the way for a futurama like civilisation :
    1) we aren't able to even get agreement on something as simple as CO2 and GCC which is a threat *now*
    2) we are still eating oil like tehre is no tomorow. And the way I see it : there won't be, because if we don't find an alternative source like fusion, our age of tech will *end* and there won't be another one *ever* (too much research depend on plentyful energy , so to regain back what we had, would be next to impossible)

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:It does not matter in the long run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2 is probably wrong... a couple million years after we stop being able to burn it up a different species will get a whack at technology and with any luck enough record of us will survive that our society can serve as a cautionary tale.

    2. Re:It does not matter in the long run by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if we could dump the anti nuclear nuts, and start building new plants, fossil fuels would be less of an issue?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  29. Re:5 billion years from now by cstacy · · Score: 1

    I can't wait for them to get here. I bet they're tasty.

    You did notice that McDonalds latest item is McPopplers, right?

  30. Re:5 billion years from now by xhawkx · · Score: 1

    You are much too funny...................I betcha when searching for exo's, popping into veiw will be an un-organic vehical with a smiley face flag and the "Flintstones" theme song being broadcast.

  31. 5 billion years starting when?! by cod3r_ · · Score: 0

    i'm scurrd.

  32. Many Bothans Died to Bring Us this Information by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    Exoplanets Spotted Orbiting Dead Star

    Wait till Emperor Palpatine finds out. Grand Moff Tarkin is gonna blow them the fuck off the spatial plane for orbiting too close to their security perimeter.

  33. I've always wondered ... by Bobtree · · Score: 1

    Will the surface of the Earth be completely replaced, and if so how many times, before the Sun explodes?

    Estimates for the Sun's lifetime are very common, but I've never seen lifetime numbers for the Earth's surface based on plate tectonics, mid-ocean rift spreading, and other crust replacement factors.