KDE 4.8 RC 1 Now Available

jrepin writes with this quote from an article at Phoronix: "Just in time for some holiday testing, the KDE SC 4.8 Release Candidate is now available. The final release of KDE 4.8 is about one month away, but now the release candidate is available to ensure it shapes up to be a solid release. Among the features of KDE Software Compilation 4.8 is support for Qt Quick in Plasma Workspaces, quite visible improvements to the Dolphin file-manager, KSecretService is now available as a shared password storage pool, and there's many performance improvements. Lots of bug fixes (measured in hundreds) can also be found in KDE 4.8."

Comments

Serious Question

[CastrTroy]

Serious Question

Which major distributions still come with KDE as the default option. There used to be Mandrake/Mandriva, but that's pretty dead now. I guess Fedora and RedHat still use it, but RedHat is mostly for servers, so the desktop doesn't really matter that much, and I don't hear much about Fedora anymore. Seems like KDE is still very actively developed, but you have to go out of your way (Kubuntu) to even use it.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Slackware uses KDE as default

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenSUSE uses it as the default desktop. That is probably your best bet as many KDE developers are using that distro.

I prefer the Fedora KDE spin as the nicest distro, but I am partial to yum.

Other notable distros using KDE by default: Pardus, Chakra, Slackware, PC-BSD.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Slackware uses KDE as default

Yep, Slackware threw out the window GNOME many years ago, all the while keeping those 3-4 GTK+ useful applications.
The best decision they ever took. A pity some major distros never followed suit.

Re:Serious Question

[icebike]

OpenSuse, Kubuntu, and several others not cloned off of Ubuntu come with KDE. Some have it as the first choice, but not all are so single minded as to not offer a choice like Ubuntu.

You don't have to go out of your way, you just have to expand your horizon beyond your little Ubuntu world.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Aptosid

Re:Serious Question

[Outtascope]

Kubuntu is hardly going "out of your way to use it".

Re:Serious Question

[pak9rabid]

Seems like KDE is still very actively developed, but you have to go out of your way (Kubuntu) to even use it.

How is getting/installing Kubuntu going out of your way?

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

sabayon

Re:Serious Question

[tomstockmail]

Sabayon has a KDE version that's very good on updates and default configuration. Sabayon is based on Gentoo but doesn't do all of the compiling. Yes, that negates the advantage Gentoo had but you still get the rolling release and you can still use portage if needed.

Re:Serious Question

[WhitePanther5000]

Seems like KDE is still very actively developed, but you have to go out of your way (Kubuntu) to even use it.

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Because "nobody" knows about KUbuntu. People getting into Linux for the first time pick Ubuntu, because that's what they've heard about, and they have no idea that Kubuntu even exists, let alone what it means, what Unity is, what KDE is, what Gnome is, or anything else that you take for granted.

The end result is that people are getting an exposure to "Linux" thinking "Linux = Unity", and by implication, "Linux sucks - this is garbage". They could, instead, be getting exposed to KDE, which does not suck, but the Ubuntu maintainers are too proud to admit that they have made a mistake, even with overwhelming feedback from the community.

Don't take YOUR level of linux knowledge as representative of everyone's. Most people have no idea that unlike most OSs, you can pick different desktop environments like KDE or Gnome or XFCE. It isn't something they necessarily even want to understand. If it's more complex than "Push this single download button" on your distro's download page, then in a very real sense people DO have to go out of their way to get KDE. And they don't know that they can, by and large.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Off the top of my head the following have KDE as the default option or as a high profile spin...
openSUSE
Kubuntu
Kororaa
Slackware
PCLinuxOS
Mageia
Mandriva
Chakra
PC-BSD
Fedora has a KDE spin
Mint has a KDE spin

Not sure how it would be considered "out of your way" to find a KDE-friendly distribution.

Re:Serious Question

[pak9rabid]

To be fair, the average new Ubuntu user probably is going to benefit from a dumbed-down interface like Unity. Having tons of config options will overwhelm most non-power users. That's the whole reason Canonical is running with it.

Re:Serious Question

[Kjella]

Some have it as the first choice, but not all are so single minded as to not offer a choice like Ubuntu.

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop and log in to KDE. All the *buntu variants actually point to the same repositories, you pick one during download but if you want more they're an apt-get away. I'd call it one less confusing step for a new user, how should he know how to answer? Give him the defaults of what he downloaded and trust that power users can use 30 seconds on Google to find out...

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

I use Sabayon with KDE for both my desktop and netbook. It is very good (but not perfect). I definitively prefer it over kubuntu.

Re:Serious Question

[Jane Q. Public]

I agree with Kjella. Ubuntu does offer a choice, and it's called Kubuntu.

And if you install regular Ubuntu with Unity and don't like it (and most people don't, I think), then install KDE and you're good to go in a few short minutes.

Re:Serious Question

[Jane Q. Public]

No, according to Canonical themselves, the "whole reason" they went with Unity is that they didn't like the new Gnome.

Re:Serious Question

[icebike]

Some have it as the first choice, but not all are so single minded as to not offer a choice like Ubuntu.

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop and log in to KDE.

Reading comprehension 101:

Offering a choice means being given a selection of desktops to to install when you are installing.
Suse does it.
Slackware does it.
Fedora does it.

Ubuntu can't be bothered.

I find it condescending how you suggest offering "no choice" at install time is somehow protecting the new user.
The new user may be years away from doing an apt-get. But they can pick from a list, because they have all been to a Restaurant in the past.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Judging by how Unity turned out, I think they felt that Gnome 3 wasn't crippled, frustrating, or slow enough.

Re:Serious Question

[JoeMerchant]

Serious Question

Which major distributions still come with KDE as the default option.

Serious answer: Kubuntu.

Re:Serious Question

[couchslug]

"Kubuntu is hardly going "out of your way to use it"."

Windows users don't like installing software.... ......oh......(runs)

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Post #38466666??

Holy mother of Satan!!

Re:Serious Question

[Belial6]

You have the choice both before and after installation. If you know before you do the install, then you just use the Kubuntu install disk. If you decide after the install, you run the apt-get command. Having only two point that you make the choice instead of 3 doesn't mean there is not choice.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

I laugh at the mess Ubuntu fanboys have made. They worked so hard trying to make the Ubuntu mono culture a reality. Now, for the first time they're considering how stupid it was. For the first time they're actually expanding their horizons and trying things on other distributions. They're finding out that Linux + GNU + GNOME/KDE isn't all that different from distribution to distribution. Sure there's different package managers... but GIMP is still GIMP. Gnome is still Gnome (with a different wallpaper sure). KDE is still KDE.

The stuff you do every day really isn't that different on another distribution. Ubuntu doesn't make all that shit... there are thousands of upstreams that Ubuntu doesn't really have much to do with beyond packaging.

And no, picking some other distribution doesn't make for more "fragmentation." There's no mega project that makes it all. It's thousands of separate projects and that's good and normal. Gnome + wallpaper and theming, isn't really a unique special experience that only Ubuntu can do. Really.

Re:Serious Question

[unixisc]

PC-BSD. Version 9 is the first that offers one a choice of GNOME, KDE, LXDE and XFCE as fully integrated DEs, while Awesome, Enlightenment, IceWM, ScrotWM and WindowMaker are available, but not fully integrated - one probably has to use the CUI to run the BSD utilities on them. But aside from that, those too will work.

Then there are all the other distros mentioned above. And typically, while Gnome may be the default, most distros, during installation, offer one the option of installing KDE instead.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandriva is hardly dead. It is not as popular as it used to be but it is still maintained and used. And there is its recent offshoot Mageia which also defaults to KDE.

Re:Serious Question

[Kjella]

The new user may be years away from doing an apt-get. But they can pick from a list, because they have all been to a Restaurant in the past.

It'll do about as much good as an untranslated Thai menu, people know what food is when they order. Okay, so you've decided that you should try this "Linux" thing. But, wait there's so many distros like OpenSuse, Fedora, Mandriva, Debian, Mint but okay most recommend Ubuntu. But wait, even if you've picked Ubuntu they're still going go give you a choice of GNOME, KDE, XFCE and maybe even some more obscure ones and I dare you to explain that as simply as you could a menu of beef, chicken and fish. Okay so it's not a big thing but too many applications decide to put the user at a crossroads, here I need you to take some apparently important decision before you can even begin using it. If you already know you'd like it to behave differently than the default it should be easy to find a settings or options menu, if you don't then making you take some kind of choice more or less on random isn't actually helping anyone. It's just intimidating to the user, like if you don't know the answers to these questions then maybe you shouldn't really be using this application. Oh, and it's available from GUI package management tools as well, you just have to know you want it....

Re:Serious Question

[DrXym]

I find it condescending how you suggest offering "no choice" at install time is somehow protecting the new user.

How the hell is a new user supposed to know or care why there are bunch of different desktops, all of which do more or less the same thing but in different ways? How the hell is a new user meant to pick apart the war of words that has been going on for over a decade over which desktop is supposed to be the best.

The sensible thing for any dist is to pick one desktop and be done with it. If someone is in any way informed on the matter they will choose a dist which matches their preference, or will know how to install an alternative post-install.

So yes it is protecting the new user since it relieves them a question that they don't know the answer to, and of downloading a larger iso file. Arguably it also protects the dist since they don't have to waste time & resources supporting multiple desktops with all the overheads in support and bug fixing entailed by that.

Re:Serious Question

[DrXym]

Exactly. It's intimidating and a redundant question since if you don't know the answer then what purpose is there in asking the question in the first place? And if you do know the answer then you should be using a dist which supports your preference. Windows doesn't ask what desktop you want, it just gives it to you one. Same for OS X. I don't see why Linux dists should be any different.

Re:Serious Question

[jbolden]

RedHat defaults to Gnome, a good chunk of Gnome development is paid for by RedHat. You are getting some good answers below. Suse being the big one. But Kanotix is the one I'd add to the list.

Re:Serious Question

[jbolden]

Just as an aside, Slackware doesn't even have Gnome as a package. You actually have to get one of the other distributions based on slackware to setup Gnome.

Though also it is important to note, this is about the degree of vertical integration required and predates the latest issues regarding Gnome2 -> Gnome3.

Re:Serious Question

[jbolden]

The unity around Ubuntu was because Ubuntu was essentially universally regarded as the easiest desktop to use. One of two things will happen:

a) The move to Unity will be successful and Ubuntu will continue to be the easiest desktop. New users who don't Unity will discover that Linux means choice quickly.

b) The move to Unity will be unsuccessful and the beginner Linux distribution will fragment again, like it was before Ubuntu. That will create the space for lots of differently tailored beginner level Linuxes which aim for slightly different niches.

b2) The move to Unity will be unsuccessful and one beginner Linux distribution moves to the front of the pack almost instantly.

Re:Serious Question

[DuckDodgers]

And if you install regular Ubuntu with Unity and don't like it (and most people don't, I think)

I think people accustomed to GNOME 2.32 or KDE or XFCE, or power users, will dislike Unity. But for someone trying Linux for the first time, who is not especially technical I think they'll take five minutes to adapt and then use it without a second thought. The biggest problem I had with Unity when it first came out in Ubuntu 11.04 was not anything in its design, it was the fact that it kept crashing. But when I upgraded to Ubuntu 11.10 it worked flawlessly for me, and I don't mind using it at all.

I'm annoyed that Unity does not have a high degree of customization. You can move the move the dock to other parts of the screen, which I have not done, and you can shut off auto-hide, which I have done. But you can't have nested menus, you can't move the minimize/maximize/close buttons to the right side of the window, and you can't set it so that some applications on the dock are intentionally not grouped. As a power user, all that drives me crazy.

Mark Shuttleworth is the CEO of Canonical, the company that funds most Ubuntu development. He has the (ridiculous) goal of getting 200 million Ubuntu users, and if targeting Linux desktop user interface settings and options to power users who like lots of customization options and prize variety of choices far more than a unified user interface would get a distribution to 200 million users... then it would have happened already, because that's the way Linux desktops have been for over a decade. Clearly if you want to target the largest potential user base, you have to tailor your interface for non-technical users. Unity does that, and while we the technical people may dislike the lack of options I think it's hard to argue that the default settings are bad.

Re:Serious Question

[DuckDodgers]

Have you run Ubuntu 11.10? Unity was too buggy to be usable in Ubuntu 11.04, at least for me. But I'm a long time Ubuntu users so I gave 11.10 a try, and Unity runs fine.

Re:Serious Question

[Rob Y.]

Right. I don't think Kubuntu is directly related to Ubuntu. It's certainly not offered as a download choice at ubuntu.com, which is where most newbies would go. But apparently (according to other posts here), the standard Ubuntu repositories do host the bits to support kubuntu's desktop stuff. Other distros support GNOME and KDE out of the box, but Canonical hasn't taken that approach. Presumably, that's because their approach is to simplify things and have there be 'one Linux' as much as possible (a rational choice that might not be so popular here). So, I guess the question is whether to consider Kubuntu a separate distro, a KDE option supported by Canonical, or something in between.

Re:Serious Question

[mcgrew]

Which major distributions still come with KDE as the default option.

I've been using kubuntu, but I may go back to Mandriva

There used to be Mandrake/Mandriva, but that's pretty dead now.

Well, I heard that which is why I switched to kubuntu -- but it appears Mandriva's death is greatly exaggerated. I DLed a copy of their newest distro that just came out a couple of months ago. It's been so long since I used it it'll be a test run when I install it. I kind of have to do an OS install, the hard drive on my main computer died.

Re:Serious Question

[Just Some Guy]

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop and log in to KDE

...after downloading a few hundred MB of new apps and libraries to replace the few hundred MB of old apps and libraries that the user probably didn't want in the first place if they were trying for a KDE desktop.

Re:Serious Question

[mcgrew]

Windows doesn't ask what desktop you want, it just gives it to you one. Same for OS X. I don't see why Linux dists should be any different.

Sam Houston's Ice Cream Parlor has vanilla ice cream. Harry Wombat's Parlor has Chocolate. Howard Johnson's has 38 flavors. Which ice cream parlor is best?

I moved from Windows to Linux because in Windows, it's the Microsoft way or the highway. With Linux, I have it like I want it. If my only desktop choice was Gnome, I'd probably have stuck with Windows.

Choice is GOOD. The only people who don't like choice are those who are indecisive to the point of mental illness. Remember those "choice is bad" car commercials with the ditzy woman who couldn't make her mind up whether she wanted cream in her coffee or not, to the point of a nervous breakdown? Windows is for her, no choices necessary, or even available.

I suppose you prefer the Model T Ford -- any color you want, so long as it's black?

Re:Serious Question

[mcgrew]

People getting into Linux for the first time pick Ubuntu, because that's what they've heard about, and they have no idea that Kubuntu even exists, let alone what it means, what Unity is, what KDE is, what Gnome is, or anything else that you take for granted.

That's your own fault. The only people in meatspace I know that heve even heard of Linux know that "unlike most OSs, you can pick different desktop environments like KDE or Gnome or XFCE" because I tell them when I clue them in that there's a free, superior replacement for Windows that doesn't need AV. The "free" and "no AV" surprises them much more than "wow, I have a choice?"

Re:Serious Question

[DrXym]

That analogy isn't a remotely comparable. And no choice is not good if the consumer has no idea what the answer is to the question.

Re:Serious Question

[Jane Q. Public]

In a usability test I read about the other day (TechCrunch I believe, but I don't remember for sure, and don't have a link saved), new users hated Gnome, did not much care for Unity, but found KDE to be "pleasantly familiar".

Among experienced users: they almost invariably hated Unity, many of them liked Gnome, but the consensus was still that KDE was pretty clearly the winner.

Re:Serious Question

[mcgrew]

Of course it is. Would Ford be a better car company if they only offered the Mustang? Would Mustangs be better if you had no choice whether it had AC, a radio, heated seats, and you had to use whatever color they picked? I get the idea that you're being deliberately dense.

The choice is between having a choice and having no choice. I guess you prefer the USSR's one political party?

And no choice is not good if the consumer has no idea what the answer is to the question.

So you prefer that people remain ignorant? All one has to do is ask someone, or look it up on this newfangled thing they have called "teh intarwebs".

Re:Serious Question

[DrXym]

Well seeing you want to go down the car analogy, the point is would be like Ford asking you if you want to install driving control system A or driving control system B in your car and your order is on hold until you decide. When pressed on what the exact difference is between A and B you are told they more or less do the same thing but A is intuitive but lacking advanced features whereas B covers everything but is quite complex. But you can look through 10 years of flamewars to consider their respective merits. Oh and your servicing is going to cost more money since Ford supports two driving control systems. And the general experience will be flakey because Ford has to split their time making their car work reasonably with two systems.

Serious Reply

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

OpenSuse.

Re:Serious Reply

[AliasMarlowe]

PCLinuxOS has KDE as its standard, although versions with LXDE, E17, etc. are also available.

Re:Serious Reply

[NotBorg]

Note that by "default" they mean that the OpenSuse installer has a radio button with KDE selected by default. If you just keep hitting "Next" you get KDE. You can install Gnome instead with one extra well placed mouse click.

However, the odds of clicking it at random are apparently low enough that the OpenSuse team doesn't consider it a bug. :O

Ohhhhh it's funny because it implies being able to pick Gnome is a bug!!!

Re:Serious Reply

[Raenex]

If you have to explain your joke, it isn't funny.

Re:Serious Reply

[NotBorg]

I'd explain the part you don't get but I'm afraid that leads to infinite recursion.

KSecretService

[icebike]

Ok, what is this?

They just barely got Kwallet working and now something totally new?

Re:KSecretService

[Anonymous Coward]

They heard you like cross desktop integration, KSecretService seems to be some kind of DBUS thingy, http://www.devheads.net/desktop/kde/core/kwalletksecretsservice-git-workflow.htm

Re:KSecretService

[Anonymous Coward]

What an ugly name. I'd much prefer the tagline: With KDE, KGB protects you.

Re:KSecretService

[qbast]

As usual, KDE has something working for years, then gnomies create something from scratch (with 100% more DBUS or whatever buzzword is popular that week), stick it on freedesktop and start screaming for KDE devs to switch, because this is now "standard".

Re:KSecretService

[smash]

Exactly. As i mentioned yesterday, bicycle-shedding....

Re:KSecretService

[unixisc]

Actually, KGB would have been a better name for it! ;-)

Re:KSecretService

[Osgeld]

I debate your assumption of KDE 4.anything "working" let alone "for years"

Re:KSecretService

[tang0th]

Then its obvious that you do not use KDE. I use KDE and it works perfectly.

Re:KSecretService

[Osgeld]

I infarct do not use it because I find it unusable, if you have not noticed there is really no middle ground when it comes to these new WM's

People Love it or they dont want to waste their time relearning everything based on a designers whim and feel utterly frustrated while trying to use it instead of getting crap done.

Re:KSecretService

[mcgrew]

I was running kubuntu 9 and nothing seemed broken to me. 11.1 is even better. I may DL the new KDE just to see if they've added any major improvements, or bugs, or hosed something that was already perfect.

Re:Dumb Question

[billgates]

aptosid, slackware, kubuntu, debian come to mind immediately. How is that out of your way?

Re:Release candidates.

[qbast]

Pass -DKDE4_BUILD_TESTS=TRUE to cmake while building and then run 'make test' . Better googling next time.

I *really like* KDE

[cadeon]

I like KDE. I don't hear that said often, though. So I figured I'd say it, and relate my excitement and thanks for all the hard work that's gone into this impending new release.

Thanks, devs.

Re:I *really like* KDE

[rwa2]

Same here... I really like playing with KDE in KNOPPIX, but it has never quite made it to my desktop for some reason. I suppose I just like the simplicity of gnome-terminal (once I hide the menubar and scrollbar), and am also more familiar with how to strip down gnome-panel to the bare essentials. I don't really use much else from the desktop environment outside of those and the window manager.

Haven't really played with KNOPPIX much lately, mostly because I like running 64-bit systems. Ooh, looks like KNOPPIX does support a 64-bit kernel now as a boot option, and has a 64-bit chroot system. Maybe it's time to take it for a spin again...

Any other good KDE LiveDVD distros?

Re:I *really like* KDE

[Anonymous Coward]

I, too, really like KDE.

Re:I *really like* KDE

[Anonymous Coward]

Me too. Looks great and works great. For something that is free and that polished is awesome

Re:I *really like* KDE

[Jane Q. Public]

When I first tried Ubuntu, years ago, I didn't like the Gnome desktop very much. I installed the Kubuntu desktop, tried switching between them a few times, and settled on the KDE. I have seen no reason to go back. Unity has nothing to offer me, and so far I have never been a big fan of Gnome.

Re:I *really like* KDE

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the best desktop going right now if you haven't drunk the "dumb it down" cool-aid like, well.... damn near every other environment on every other OS.

So yeah, KDE rocks.

Re:I *really like* KDE

[Anonymous Coward]

I love kde and a host of open source applications that make it awesome.

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/
http://k3b.plainblack.com/
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/
http://www.openoffice.org/
http://www.openssh.org/
http://www.pidgin.im/
http://www.eclipse.org/
http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-linux.html

Just to name a few.

Re:I *really like* KDE

[jbolden]

kanotix might be worth trying if you like Knoppix and KDE.

Looking Good

[warrax_666]

Running RC1 on my Kubuntu and it seems that we've finally arrived at where 3.5 was... only kidding.

I realize that the 4.0-4.3 releases were "experimental" and should never have been pushed as defaults by distros, but...

I may still give up on KDE (weren't expecting that, were you?). Personally, I think tiling window managers are way more efficient once you get past the initial learning curve. Most of the KDE programs are great (Kate, Okteta, Gwenview, etc), but the whole desktop...? Not sold.

Re:Looking Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Window Behavior -> Advanced -> Enable Tiling

Re:Looking Good

[Windwraith]

You don't like KDE's tiling support, or you don't know about it?

Re:Looking Good

[noahm]

I use awesome with KDE in quite a few places and find it to be a generally excellent combination. The procedure for doing so is documented on the awesome wiki.

noah

Re:Printing

[armanox]

I wouldn't know - I don't print anything from my Linux systems, and rarely print anything on other systems. People still print regularly?

IOW KDE 4.8 final is NOT available

[NemoinSpace]

and yet i clicked the link...

Re:Printing

[smash]

People who do actual work often need to print, yes.

4.7 KMail == Total Fail

[nonmaskable]

I've been a KDE fan since 1.x, but one of the worst pieces of OSS I've ever used was in KDE 4.7 -- KMail 2. I thought it might just be me, but a little research showed that every distro shipping it has had many angry users. For me on OpenSUSE it's been an endless source of lost incoming and outgoing mail, performance problems, and generally horrible bugs. Totally broken development process -- the problems were widely reported during at beta, but ignored since KDE leadership insists on pushing the buggy/leaky Akonadi-Nepomuk stuff regardless of what it means to end users. I'll give KMail in 4.8 another chance, but I don't hold out much hope -- it's been years since Akonadi was introduced and everything associated with it has been a disaster.

The rest of KDE 4.7 is absolutely terrific though.

Re:4.7 KMail == Total Fail

[pbhj]

Does Kmail allow you to use html in emails yet?

Re:4.7 KMail == Total Fail

[neuro88]

Kmail2 has been a nightmare for me as well. I've switched to thunderbird and while it's not terrible, I don't particularly care for it. I'm hoping kmail2 will eventually be un-fucked so I can switch back.

In KDE 4.7, I have issues where sometimes when I click on apps in the task manager, it doesn't bring them up. I get this on my desktop and laptop (Kubuntu). It generally takes another click or 2 for it to work.

I have another issue where sometimes I get 2 programs overlapping in the task manager (you see the text of both), but only one of them is accessible. I can fix it by right clicking, and moving the accessible app to another virtual desktop, then moving it back. Then both apps have distinct task bar entries that work. I had this problem in 4.6 as well, but it also happened much more frequently in 4. so I guess there's been some improvement.

Re:4.7 KMail == Total Fail

[claus.wilke]

I just switched to KMail 2 in 4.7.4, and so far it's working out nicely---definitely better than the old KMail. I was quite apprehensive, because I have a complex setup, with multiple IMAP accounts, local mail storage, several identities, and so on, and I had read all the issues people have. But it's working like a charm, and even mail folders with several thousand mails are snappy.

I think there has been a lot of progress since the first official release of KMail2 in 4.7, so I'd definitely give it another try.

Some of the most annoying bugs, like KMail IMAP not surviving a sleep-wake cycle or a brief network outage, are finally gone.

Re:4.7 KMail == Total Fail

[claus.wilke]

Which version of KMail are you using? Since 4.7.4, it seems to be running nicely.

Re:4.7 KMail == Total Fail

[unixisc]

I found KMail pretty mediocre in KDE 3.5, but used it only for GMail. However, I'd be interested to see whether it's improved since.

Re:4.7 KMail == Total Fail

[neuro88]

4.7.3 is the last time I tried it... I have 4.7.4 now, but I haven't got around to trying kmail again just yet because my hopes weren't very high.

But thanks for the heads up!

Re:Printing

[rec9140]

Hmmm.. Works GREAT!

Sharp MX4501N

Sharp AR620M

HP C7280's
HP 4500W
HP 7500A

All via network...

And HP makes it stupid wintard easy to print, scan and fax with their HP printers or AIO's.

sudo apt-get install hplip-gui

DONE! Print, scan, fax.

XSANE works great to scan via the network.

What was your point?

Oh still trying to use non PCL or PS printers in Linux, good luck.

Hell, even my beloved Kodaks have been set free, free at last with c2esp, scan and fax is still not supported, but you can at least print!

Re:Printing

[koxkoxkox]

I think he is talking about this bug : http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=180051

There is no way to have default printer settings, which means setting again the options you need every time. This is the fourth most hated bug in KDE.

KDE Works Great For Me

[naubrey]

I really don't understand all the complaints I have read about KDE. So many complain about requiring a massive system to run KDE but I just don't see it. I have a Thinkpad with the Intel graphics chips and an IdeaPad 10-2 with the Intel graphics chipset and both machines run the latest KDE great. My Thinkpad has a modest set of desktop effects enabled and while running my laptop display of 1680x1050 and my 20" LCD display with 1600x900 my laptop doesn't skip a beat. My wife's IdeaPad only has 1 GB of ram and I can enable all the desktop effects and it works just fine! She doesn't care for the eye candy so I have desktop effects enabled but all manually turned off in the control panel and general usability is very responsive. I think people have Firefox open with 10 tabs or more using up all their ram and they are blaiming it on KDE instead Firefox. I also use VirtualBox quite often with KDE and I completely turn off desktop effects (if they even turn on automatically which they do not always do if I have not installed the vbox tools) and KDE runs great in my vm's with 512 to 768MB of ram. I love KDE. It's fast, it's functional and has not given me trouble since release 4.3

Re:KDE Works Great For Me

[DrXym]

My biggest complaint about KDE is it doesn't know when less is more. The UI is packed with too many menus, buttons, configuration settings, dialogs within dialogs. It's just a busy, complex desktop. Arguably GNOME 3 is too cut to the bone and lacking in certain settings but I have no doubt in my mind which desktop is the easiest to use out of the box.

Ubuntu vs Kubuntu

[kpwelch]

I have been running Ubuntu and Kubuntu for several years now. Ubuntu is dual boot with WinXP, and Kubuntu is on an external drive. Only one CPU here.

I am leaning towards the Gnome desktop for a couple of reasons. The first and most annoying is the KDE Wallet. The second is load and reaction time. The third is reaction speed. Gnome is reacting faster than KDE. The fourth is just today KDE (Kubuntu) had 278 updates and Gnome (Ubuntu) only had 144. I try to keep both systems similar (same addons from basic install) but I cannot guarantee they are the same. However, it took about 1.5 hours to update Kubuntu, and only about 45 minutes to update Ubuntu.

So far as usability is concerned, I find navigating in Ubuntu a bit easier than in Kubuntu. However, I cannot really say that I like the current Ubuntu interface, but I like it better than Kubuntu.

Plasma this, plasma that

[tyrione]

I love how every release never seems to finish the ``feature plan'' list always listing a large portion as `in progress.' You might want to clean up those Release Plans to what has been actually accomplished in a cumulative list and what still needs to be done and then the final, ``future plans.''

By the way, it's all about the Apps and as usual most of these apps that are good are just the utility apps like Kate or GwenView with the rare Digikam or Gimp/Inkscape for GNOME/GTK+. When in the hell is the core of KDE or GNOME going to bring their apps up to a level that consumers would take a serious look at Linux/FreeBSD?

At this rate the Desktop Environments will continue to be 4 years behind Windows and OS X and the pile of professional apps will be even farther behind.

tinge_of_nostaliga()

[aussersterne]

It was KDE4 that started my migration away from Linux after fifteen years of hardcore Linux use, advocacy, development, etc. (The pending arrival of GNOME 3 sealed the deal, but it was KDE4 that happened first.)

I still miss Linux, sometimes—the ethic, the openness.

Too bad things didn't work out and Linux didn't ever "arrive" at the same UI quality level as Mac OS or even Windows. But I still have a very soft spot in my heart for Linux and I am continually tempted to install the latest Fedora release in a VM just to have it around. No particular need though—don't actually know what I'd run in it—so I haven't yet.

Re:tinge_of_nostaliga()

[DuckDodgers]

The plain truth is that a development community of volunteers with a few corporate backers spending a total across the industry of maybe a few billion dollars per year on all aspects of free software are not going to match companies like Apple and Microsoft that each spend many billions of dollars per year on user interface alone.

I wish I could tell people that free software is engineered better, less buggy, easier to install, and more aesthetically appealing in all respects than proprietary software. But often it's not.

Things keep incrementally improving, and a good Linux distribution in 2011 is arguably better in all respects than any Microsoft or Apple operating system from 2006. I fully expect that a good Linux distribution in 2016 will be better than any Microsoft or Apple operating system you can get today. But the free software community will always be playing catch-up against proprietary software companies that have literally ten or even fifty times the resources to devote to their products. The best reason to use free software is because it's free. I would certainly be happier if it was also universally better in technical terms, but it isn't.

Please keep that in mind if you want to try Linux again in the future - or when you phrase future criticisms.

Re:tinge_of_nostaliga()

[RicardoGCE]

http://www.xfce.org/

You're welcome.

Re:tinge_of_nostaliga()

[DuckDodgers]

Expecting most of an international community composed mostly of hobbyist volunteers to unite under one end-to-end free software solution is crazy. The freedom of choice we have is good, and the splintering of resources is one of the prices we pay for it.

Wayland, Konqueror & Rekonq

[unixisc]

Few questions I have:

• Does 4.8 now work w/ Wayland, and are there any BSD or Linux distros that come w/ Wayland, either in addition to, or instead of, X?
• Does the latest Konqueror support HTML5? I'd like to be able to watch YouTube w/o Konqueror throwing up on the Flash compatibility
• What is the latest status on Rekonq? Is it at least version 1.x as yet? And is it the default browser on KDE, or is that just a Kubuntu thing?

Re:Wayland, Konqueror & Rekonq

[unixisc]

There is a difference b/w a release at least getting to a version 1, where it is at least stable, if not fully functional, vs something that has gone a few iterations. Yeah, sometimes, a 3.0 or a 4.0 version may have problems, like Gnome or KDE, but that's different from a software whose creators have not yet released something that's at least their first release.

Re:Wayland, Konqueror & Rekonq

[unixisc]

Yeah, I had problems w/ Konqueror, particularly while viewing YouTube, which is why I asked. Konqueror had some description of why it didn't support Flash, which is why I asked the question about HTML5 - Chrome supports HTML5, so while it does support Flash, one could use HTML5. I do hope Konqueror goes w/ what works, be it WebM, H.264 or MPEG-4 AVC, instead of zealously sticking to Ogg Theora regardless of whether or not it works

Re:Wayland, Konqueror & Rekonq

[Damnshock]

Konqueror supports html5 if you use webkit and qtwebkit 2.2 (included in qt 4.8)

Regards

KDE rocks! (from former Gnome user who switched)

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been using KDE since the summer when I migrated from Gnome to KDE. I'd always used Gnome because it was the Red Hat/Fedora default, but Gnome 3 was cripplingly unusable.

KDE rocks! Please, KDE developers, DO NOT SCREW THIS DESKTOP ENVIRONMENT UP! Keep doing what you're doing!

I expect Gnome 3 in a year or so to be a footnote in the long list of attempts to give people what they don't want, along with the new Coke and the TNIV Bible.

Re:Printing

[Just Some Guy]

While I agree that a working print system is basic and necessary, I "do actual work" in an actual office for an actual paycheck and I've printed maybe 20 work-related pages in the last decade.

Re:Printing

[smash]

If you're in IT, you're merely a cost, and don't actually produce anything for most companies.... people who do the production type stuff usually need hard copy.

Re:Printing

[Just Some Guy]

Not in my company. That whole "paperless office" thing is coming to fruition in a lot of places.

Re:Printing

[smash]

You're lucky. Our 80 person office does about 20k pages per month :-/

Re:Printing

[Just Some Guy]

On what, exactly? I know I'm in a pretty progressive company in a lot of ways, but I can't imagine what would cause that much new paper to be generated each month.

Re:Printing

[smash]

Monthly reports. Safety documents. Other assorted bs...