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Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

Kilrah_il writes "A recent New England Journal of Medicine editorial talks about the mini-mental state examination — a standardized screening test for cognitive impairment. After years of being widely used, the original authors claim to own copyright on the test and 'a licensed version of the MMSE can now be purchased [...] for $1.23 per test. The MMSE form is gradually disappearing from textbooks, Web sites, and clinical tool kits.' The article goes on to describe the working of copyright law and various alternative licenses, including GNU Free Documentation License, and ends with the following suggestion: 'We suggest that authors of widely used clinical tools provide explicit permissive licensing, ideally with a form of copyleft. Any new tool developed with public funds should be required to use a copyleft or similar license to guarantee the freedom to distribute and improve it, similar to the requirement for open-access publication of research funded by the National Institutes of Health.'"

36 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. I hope Karma's a bitch. by Nemesisghost · · Score: 4, Informative

    I sincerely hope that all of the authors either have a stroke, Alzheimer's, or some other disease that impairs mental faculty and the attending doctor doesn't know how to perform this test due to their idiotic copyright enforcement.

  2. Public Funds by fedos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Any new tool developed with public funds should be entered into the public domain.

    FTFY

    1. Re:Public Funds by firex726 · · Score: 2

      Exactly...

      We should not allow a private entity to use public funds to offset development costs then privatize/copyright the profits.

    2. Re:Public Funds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Do you have any evidence this test was developed using public funds? I honestly don't know, but Wikipedia says it was developed by Marshal F. Folstein, Susan Folstein, and Paul R. McHugh in 1975. McHugh is the only author with his own Wikipedia page (and I'm too lazy to do further research), but in 1975 he worked for Johns Hopkins University, which is a private university.

    3. Re:Public Funds by moortak · · Score: 2

      A private university that receives about a half billion in annual NIH grants. http://report.nih.gov/award/trends/FindOrg_Detail.cfm?OrgID=4134401

      --
      Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
    4. Re:Public Funds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If every work ever created by any organization that received government grants was public domain, nobody would ever take a government grant. In addition, on further investigation, it appears Marshal Folstein, a junior attending at the time, wrote the original questions of his own volition to help Susan Folstein, a resident, to asses patients. They then formalized and published the test with the assistance of Paul McHugh, and did so independently of the hospital. They were not hired by or even encouraged by the hospital to make this test, it was their own creation, so there's really no argument that they didn't own the copyright.

      And yet any programmer / sysadmin / who develops a tool on his/her own time stands a chance of losing control of that tool to his/her employer. Hmmm, makes perfect sense to me.

      BTW, I'm not saying that the test should be public domain or copyleft.

    5. Re:Public Funds by ortholattice · · Score: 2

      If every work ever created by any organization that received government grants was public domain, nobody would ever take a government grant.

      Yes, I'm sure the primary motivation of researchers in abstract mathematics, theoretical physics, astronomy, etc. is the hope of someday getting rich by selling their discoveries.

    6. Re:Public Funds by dargaud · · Score: 2

      If every work ever created by any organization that received government grants was public domain, nobody would ever take a government grant.

      If all the assholes whose primary interest is money went into banking instead of research or medecine, those fields would be all the better for it. And yes, I'm dead serious. I studied engineering in France, where everybody wants to do an MS in engineering because it's the best and quickest way to a good salary, no matter what you do afterwards. I don't remember the statistics, but only about one student in 5 kept at engineering afterwards, all the others going into management, banking, and whatever the fuck else. The problem is that they never had any interest in engineering in the 1st place, taking the spots of people who weren't as bright as themselves but who would have made better engineer, simply because they would have _wanted_ to be engineers.

      --
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  3. So change the test, duh? by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Copyright covers the actual content of the test, not the concept of a short battery of simple test of various cognitive skills.

    So... Rewrite the damned test. Use different math problems, different spatial problems, different linguistic problems, which gets around the copyright issue entirely but still fundamentally measures the same underlying capacity.

    17+34 doesn't magically measure basic math ability "better" than 15+29 just because Folstein, Folstein, and McHugh blessed it.

    1. Re:So change the test, duh? by thesandtiger · · Score: 2

      While it probably wouldn't be a problem to re-write the test with different questions, there is a question of testing the validity and reliability of the new items.

      The original has been in use since the 70's and has had the validity and reliability demonstrated multiple times. New questions that seem the same might actually not get at the same constructs as well or might have something else going on. Generally instruments like this aren't modified casually.

      In my work (psychology and public health research) we have had to modify widely used measures and when we have replaced one question with a seemingly identical question in the past, sometimes there're we're hidden gotchas that changed the responses enough that it was clear that despite our best efforts, the new questions didn't get at the same constructs as the old ones.

      All that said, I don't think it would be an issue in this case to change the questions a bit, but I do wonder if legally that would be sufficient to protect against copyright claims.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  4. You failed the (comprehension) test by Mathinker · · Score: 5, Informative

    The authors were letting everyone download the new test for free; a corporation, PAR, to which the old test had been licensed is to blame for claiming copyright over (elements of) the new test which may eventually replace the old one.

    Unfortunately, there's no easy way to leave them a comment about one's opinion of their behavior on their website. I looked.

    1. Re:You failed the (comprehension) test by pla · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unfortunately, there's no easy way to leave them a comment about one's opinion of their behavior on their website. I looked.

      You could try cs@parinc.com, their customer service email address.

      You could also try rsmith@parinc.com, their CEO.

      That said, pond scum doesn't usually care what you think about it.

    2. Re:You failed the (comprehension) test by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unfortunately, there's no easy way to leave them a comment about one's opinion of their behavior on their website. I looked.

      You can leave a comment about the business, and a rating of their trustworthiness and vendor reliability here. They should see it if they care about their website, and some of their site's visitors (depending on installed FF plugins) may see it. Whether that effects their business prospects is dubious, but it's something.

      If a business publicly asserts that a test which has similar mechanics to their test (but is a completely different expression) is a derived work, I'd say they're a bit untrustworthy (though to be fair, matters of law aren't something they claim expertise with -- OTOH, trustworthy people usually try to STFU on topics they don't understand (but we all make mistakes sometimes)). If they issue DMCA takedown notices based on that misconception, I'd say they're dangerously untrustworthy and no one can safely interact with them in commercial matters, which also impacts their "vendor reliability."

      What troubles me more than the copyright issue, is that TFA makes it sound like they sell a "licensed version" of the test. It doesn't say authorized copies (copyright terminology), but a licensed version, which implies there might be terms of use or a contract, wholly unlike how people normally buy most copyrighted works (though many proprietary software publishers now assert that too). That is a pretty threatening idea. I wonder if TFA got that right.

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      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  5. Cognitive Impairment? by Shoten · · Score: 2

    ...uh, I don't understand...

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  6. They did. Didn't help. by Mathinker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The authors did. That didn't help them against the infringement claims of the corporation which benefits from an older test.

    This is one example why many believe copyright does on the whole more damage than benefit to society.

    1. Re:They did. Didn't help. by Mathinker · · Score: 3, Informative

      > We'll have to see if the authors' new version is actually copyright infringement on the old one.

      I'm sorry to have confused the discussion here by emphasizing something not mentioned in the summary and only in the linked article. It's actually two tests from two different sets of authors. The newer test is called "The Sweet 16" (what a terrible name) and as far as anyone can tell (the newer test is unavailable, even in this era of the Internet, AFAIK), it is unlikely that any claim of infringement is valid.

      I just hope some clinician who managed to download the newer test, in the few weeks it actually was available, will have the good idea to ask a favor from a friend who knows how to anonymously publish information on the net.

    2. Re:They did. Didn't help. by John+Newman · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm one of the authors on the NEJM article.

      The developers of the Sweet 16 - the test apparently "taken down" for copyright infringement of the MMSE - were all Harvard faculty, and work for academic centers that are affiliated with Harvard and its hospitals (Hospital Elder Life Program, Institute for Aging Research and Hebrew Senior Life). The senior author of the Sweet 16 is a well-known Harvard professor. One of the things we find concerning about this case is that Harvard Medical School probably has some claim to ownership of the Sweet 16, and was presumably involved in its defense. If Harvard, with its vast resources, could not or chose not to defend the Sweet 16 successfully, what hope do any other researchers have to develop new cognitive testing tools?

  7. Sweet 16 vs MMSE by sudnshok · · Score: 4, Interesting

    According to the article, an alternative test called Sweet 16 was produced and was subsequently killed by the MMSE copyright owners' legal action. It sounded like the Sweet 16 used completely new copy but similar logic. Can you copyright logic if all the words are completely different? I'd love to see a comparison of those two tests.

    On a side note, I hope no one owns the copyright on the eye chart. I like getting my eyes checked every year or two.

    --
    People who say "money does not buy happiness" are just people without money trying to make themselves feel better.
    1. Re:Sweet 16 vs MMSE by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      According to the article, an alternative test called Sweet 16 was produced and was subsequently killed by the MMSE copyright owners' legal action. It sounded like the Sweet 16 used completely new copy but similar logic. Can you copyright logic if all the words are completely different? I'd love to see a comparison of those two tests.

      On a side note, I hope no one owns the copyright on the eye chart. I like getting my eyes checked every year or two.

      If the logic is germane to the item in question, yes you can copyright logic. Think of it as music and the logic is the step changes from note to note. Changing all the notes to a different key isn't unique enough to say it is a different work.

    2. Re:Sweet 16 vs MMSE by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      If the logic is germane to the item in question, yes you can copyright logic. Think of it as music and the logic is the step changes from note to note. Changing all the notes to a different key isn't unique enough to say it is a different work.

      Maybe. But is your analogy accurate? You can't, for example, copyright a chord progression -- otherwise, all 1950s and 60s bubble-gum pop would be considered the "same song."

      I don't know enough about the specific test in question, but the idea that you can copyright the logic necessary to solve a problem or a specific collection of similar types of problems sounds absolutely crazy. How can anyone ever publish a new math textbook then, without someone claiming copyright infringement? Surely the methodology for solving basic algebraic equations is the same, and the types of problems used to test understanding are very similar.

      This isn't like claiming copyright over a melody in a different key. A better analogy: you can't copyright a recipe (as a list of ingredients), but you can copyright a specific expression of a recipe with the more-or-less exact wording of instructions, background, etc. In this case, they're trying to copyright a recipe that isn't even expressed directly. How does that make sense?

    3. Re:Sweet 16 vs MMSE by urulokion · · Score: 4, Informative

      No you can't copyright logic. Nor can you copyright a thought. Nor can you copyright a plot. Copyright protects the expression of logic, thoughts, plots, et. al. So you can't copyright a plot, but you can copyright a screenplay which is an expression of a plot. You can't a thought, you can copyright a poem which expresses that thought. And you can't copyright the idea of a way to testing cognitive functioning, but you can copyright a standardized test to test cognitive functioning

      The only way the Sweet 16 test could me infringing is if it's a derivative of the MMSE test. And I would suspect the creator of the Sweet 16 explicitly avoided that particular trap. It sounds like she created her own test using the general methodology used by the MMSE. Hmmm. Why does that sounds familiar...protection of methodology? Because that's the realm of patents. That's the only thing that the Sweet 16 test could be infringing. But any possible patent protection for the MMSE test has long since expired.

    4. Re:Sweet 16 vs MMSE by John+Newman · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm one of the authors of the NEJM article.

      We didn't have the space to describe the MMSE and Sweet 16 in detail, but here's a brief description:

      The MMSE has 30 items, which include 10 orientation questions (what's today's date, where are we, etc.) and 6 questions for recall (say 3 standard words, repeat them back and remember them for 5 minutes or so).

      The Sweet 16 has 16 items which include 8 orientation questions and 6 questions for recall (using different words than the MMSE). The other two questions involve repeating a sequence of numbers backwards.

      So there is a lot of overlap between the two tests, and that was presumably the basis for an infringement claim. However, the items that overlap - orientation and recall - are quite generic and were in wide use long before the MMSE was created in 1975. Nevertheless, the authors behind Sweet 16 and their institution could not or chose not to defend the Sweet 16.

      It's a little hard to imagine a cognitive assessment tool that doesn't include orientation or short-term memory recall questions, so this will strongly discourage progress in the field. Perhaps one of the Alzheimer's advocacy groups will take notice and defend researchers trying to advance the state of the art.

  8. Public domain by J'raxis · · Score: 2

    Any tool developed using public funds should be placed in the public domain.

    I use copyleft for my own works, but I do so as a defense against anyone else trying to claim a standard "all rights reserved" copyright over my works. I would public-domain them if I could do so safely. I use copyright law and its ability to place restrictions upon the free flow of information merely to make sure someone else can't take a piece of information I wish to offer freely and wrap it in their own, non-free, worse "all rights reserved" copyright and license.

    So, whereas I personally support the restrictions that copyleft creates, in the broadest sense, one must admit that copyleft's restrictions are as much restrictions as standard copyright's are. "No" is "no" whether or not you agree with it. It's an individual, political/ideological decision to copyleft a work rather than use a standard copyright.

    And works paid for by the public---paid for by everyone, without their explicit consent---should not be subject to political/ideological decisions. Everyone paid for these works, including people who strongly oppose the spirit of copyleft. Therefore, these works should be returned to the public with no restrictions placed upon them.

  9. Corporation, not authors by Mathinker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The corporation, PAR, to which the older test is licensed, is behind this. AFAIK, the doctors who authored the older test haven't personally claimed infringement. My guess is that they received a single payment for licensing their test to PAR, and therefore they have no financial stake in the success or failure of the newer test.

  10. Summary misses the worst part by Mathinker · · Score: 2

    The corporation PAR, which benefits from the older test, the MMSE, has caused a newer, openly licensed test called "The Sweet 16", to be taken down by claiming infringement on elements of the older test, even though as far as anyone knows, they have no legal basis for doing so.

  11. Same thing daily in clinics with CPT codes by KWTm · · Score: 2

    A similar situation, where copyright shows its ugly leash, appears in everyday medical practice. The Current Procedural Terminology (CPT) codes describe the type of service that a doctor has provided (e.g. simple office visit, complex office visit, appendix operation, etc.) and is used a few dozen times a day by insurance companies all around the USA to determine payment for services. It becomes essential for every doctor and every clinic/hospital to know the definition of these codes in order to remain financially solvent. If you surgically extracted a lipoma, but didn't know that the correct code for that particular case was 11424 (if the incision was 4cm long and the location was on the foot), then the insurance company just got a free ride and your other patients are subsidizing the cost of that operation.

    You'd think that, for such an important part of daily operations, there'd be a list of all the CPT codes and what they mean. It should be a plain text file. I myself tried to get such a list --a simple text file, to call up on my laptop or handheld or something. Alas, nothing so simple. Yes, there's a list available for purchase, published on paper in thick books the size of a white page phone book (remember those?). If you wanted an electronic version, you'll have to hope someone wrote an app for your particular platform to display the text, because the American Medical Association holds the strings to that piece of text and doesn't want you to do your own searches in your favourite editor or sort the text alphabetically, etc. I'm not sure why such a code is not in public domain if it's so essential to keeping healthcare running smoothly.

    I'm told that doctors are one of the most developmentally delayed professions when it comes to adapting to technology, and this is not the first time they seem woefully ignorant of issues in the information age which are screwing them over. I imagine that if someone held the intellectual property rights to the names of diagnoses ("You're not allowed to say 'appendicitis', doctor, because you haven't paid the licensing fees!") then doctors would just bend over and hand over some lube.

    --
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    [GPG key in journal]
    1. Re:Same thing daily in clinics with CPT codes by dmr001 · · Score: 2

      1. The AMA came up with the CPT code list, so they hold it hostage for money to fund updating it (and perhaps for hookers and coke - who knows). In any event, most electronic medical record software has searachable CPT lists; most doctors only use a small subset of the list which they memorize; and if you're stuck and don't have a book around you can do a search on the AMA website for free (https://catalog.ama-assn.org/Catalog/cpt/cpt_search.jsp?locality=OR) or just google it (try "CPT circumcision").

      2. Thanks for the anal raping analogy, but the issue isn't copyright over names of diagnosis but a bunmch of numbers that go with them that the AMA and feds agreed to standardize on. Doctors may be slow to adapt some technology (due to immense cost of anything that gets used in medicine, the relative simplicity of paper, the fact that historically most physician practices were independent small businesses with fairly low overhead, and that most electronic medical record software sucks) but it's not due to ignorance. Where technology is easier to implement with fewer rules and hope of remuneration (surgical robots, diagnostic ultrasound, MRI imaging), if anything, it's overused by physicians.

  12. Eat junk food by Chemisor · · Score: 2

    This clearly illustrates that cognitive impairment is caused by copyright, not junk food, as the above mentioned study concludes.

  13. Re:Hippocratic Oath ? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

    The Hippocratic Oath begins with the invocation:

    I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:

    While fine by me (they sound as reasonable as the rest of the loonies in Godville) it's hard to take everything the Oath says at face value.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  14. Re:not First Post by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's fine. I won't quote you and I'll compose my own post.

    With blackjack and hookers!

    --
    "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
  15. Time Zone Database connection by macraig · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of the Time Zone Database debacle of this year, when that astrology products company bought out the atlas/almanac from which much of the data was derived, and then immediately turned around and sued the two individual authors of the Database, even though they never made a dime from it and included a full attribution of the source in the Database. How did that turn out? It's been months with no further word here or anywhere else frequent.

    These are two of the best anecdotes to highlight the surreptitiously greedy stupidity of current (and most historical) copyright law.

  16. Re:Not a big loss by John+Newman · · Score: 2

    I'm not saying the MMSE is useless, it's just no big loss if there is copyright being claimed now. We'll move on to something else.

    I'm one of the authors of the NEJM article.

    People already are moving on. In our practice we mostly use the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MOCA) for screening, which is much more sensitive and has liberal licensing terms for non-commercial use.

    But this is a general issue. The Sweet 16 was an attempt to move on, halted by PAR. I'm surprised that PAR hasn't already sued the MOCA authors given that the MOCA includes recall and orientation, like the Sweet 16. Even if it survives, the MOCA is not perfect- it has laudably generous licensing terms for copying, but no provision for derivative works. In 80 years, the heirs of the MOCA authors might well start suing researchers who use a trails test, clock draw and animal recognition in a new test.

    Whether we move on from the MMSE or not, the threat to scientific progress will remain.

  17. Re:Apologies by John+Newman · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry, I didn't see that the summary incorrectly states that the authors of the older test were claiming infringement. AFAIK, they're not.

    I guess I failed the comprehension test. Actually, I didn't really read the summary carefully, since I was already familiar with the actual facts.

    I am one of the authors of the NEJM op/ed article.

    It is all a little confusing. There are three parties here:
    1. The original authors of the MMSE, who through PAR are strictly enforcing copyright protections of the MMSE
    2. The authors of a new tool, the Sweet 16, which was created as an open-access alternative to the MMSE but was "taken down" by PAR in a copyright dispute
    3. Us, the authors of TFA, who have no relationship to #1 or #2 but are very worried about what this all means for the practice and progress of medicine

  18. Re:Apologies by CmdTako · · Score: 2

    I am one of the authors of the NEJM op/ed article.

    "permissive licensing, ideally with a form of copyleft." permissive licensing is copycenter NOT copyleft.

  19. Copyright does not work that way by russotto · · Score: 2

    It appears from their website that what PAR wants you to do is order sets of test forms, then use the test forms once per exam. But they can't actually require you to do it that way. You can make a scoring sheet (without the questions) and record the patient's scores on the scoring sheet, while giving the exam from a legitimate copy (perhaps one ordered from PAR, perhaps one obtained from the original journal) or even an illegitimate one, without violating copyright. The same exam sheet can be used over and over again.

    Copyright 101 (and 106):
    Copyright covers reproduction, distribution, derivative works, public performance, and public display. Giving a screening exam is not _public_ performance of the work.

  20. Re:Apologies by John+Newman · · Score: 2

    My apologies, I meant permissive-with-a-small-p only as an antonym for restrictive. I admit I wasn't aware of the technical meaning. Thank you for pointing it out. I think the phrasing still made sense to most readers. Remember that for most of the physicians who read NEJM this was probably the first time they had even heard of copyleft.