Ask Slashdot: Which Candidates For Geek Issues?

Okian Warrior writes "An oft-repeated sentiment on Slashdot is that we should change the situation by voting in better officials. An opinion that appears in nearly every political thread is: 'we're to blame because we elected these people.' On the eve of the first primary (in New Hampshire), I have to wonder: how can we tell the candidates apart? Ron Paul is an obvious exception, and I am not discounting him, but otherwise it seems that no candidate has made a stand on any issue. Consider the candidates (all of them, of any party) as a set. What issue can I use to divide them into two groups, such that one group is 'for' something and the other is 'against'?"

Comments

same old same old

[jfholcomb]

The R's and the D's are truly just 2 arms of the same beast. They both survive only due to blaming the other camp for all of the problems in the world.

Re:same old same old

[TWX]

I used to think this, but I've come to realize that this thinking is not entirely correct.

The Republicans generally support the goals of big business, and have a top-down approach to wealth. They believe that making people at the top rich will lead to prosperity for all. Many believe that social programs do not help well enough to justify many of them. Many members feel that they have a moral imperative to attempt to push their moral agenda on people who have nothing to do with them, and whose behaviors do not affect them in the slightest. The Republicans are also very good at compelling members to conform and follow, even when a given member may disagree with a lot of party rhetoric, and even when it's not in their best interests to actually agree.

The Democrats look at individuals for success, and define success through a bottom-up approach, rather than a top-down approach, as many believe that top-down approaches have led to severe inequality. They believe government has the ability to address such injustices and to help dampen inequality. Many believe that an individual's right to make ones' own choices, so long as those choices don't victimize others, is important, but are not willing to ignore data that demonstrates particular freedoms causing lots of harm. Democrats generally like to build consensus before agreeing on a plan, which lately has been to their detriment, as it allows their political opponents to stonewall things that should be able to pass despite objection.

There are times for either, and both political parties have this habit of becoming sort of rotted out from the insides due to corruption. Unfortunately, it seems that the Republicans rot-out a lot faster than the Democrats, yet members of the party have seemingly short memories of it, like Newt Gingrich, who has managed to be a serious contender for the Republican party's nominee for President despite having resigned from the House of Representative in disgrace.

Re:same old same old

[Lemmy Caution]

I disagree. The real difference between the leaderships of the two party is which elite interests they represent.

The Republicans are largely the party of the primary economy and part of the secondary economy (resource extraction, agriculture and base manufacturing.) The cultural values that they support - religious values, etc. - are those which coincide with that sector. The democrats are largely the party of the tertiary (and past) economies - some manufacturing, but mostly services, especially financial services and the culture industry. Their cultural values are also thus in line: cosmopolitanism, a sense of "progress" (very important in sectors of the economy that emphasize changing styles, such as retail.) These elites agree on a lot, but they disagree on enough things - where they want public sector activity and where they don't, for example - that the different parties do compete.

The social / cultural values things - the left's diversity, the right's "family values" - are mostly window-dressing.

Re:same old same old

[belo abismo]

I'm a Libertarian and I don't like either party. You're wrong if you think there's a difference between the two parties.

1. "The Republicans generally support the goals of big business, and have a top-down approach to wealth."

So do the Democrats. How many poor Democrats are in congress? Seven of the top ten richest congressmen are Democrats.

2. "Many members feel that they have a moral imperative to attempt to push their moral agenda on people who have nothing to do with them"

Democrats do this also with issues like affirmative action and gay marriage.

3. "The Republicans are also very good at compelling members to conform and follow, even when a given member may disagree with a lot of party rhetoric, and even when it's not in their best interests to actually agree."

Same for the Democrats. How to you think the Democrats get 98% of the black vote. It's almost impossible to get 98% of any group to agree on anything. My friend is a coal miner and voted for Obama because the union told him too. If that's not voting against your self interest, I don't know what is.

Re:same old same old

[mattmarlowe]

That's one way to look at it....I see things a slightly different:
*Republicans believe that nothing should hold back an individual or group from achieving success and happiness provided that it is done in a way that is not that harmful to society or others - also, that ideally all individuals and families should be positive role models. Furthermore, republicans generally believe that each section of society has a proper role and size where the family is responsible for giving kids a good start in life and being the primary resource for handling emergencies and major events, that the individual is responsible for what he achieves and his health, that religion and churches should look after the moral health of society and also be the venue through which most general welfare and charitable activities be handled, that government be limited to providing basic infrastructure and a neutral safe ground for everyone to interact, and lastly that when decisions in government be made that it be at the level closest to those impacted (e.g. local control of schools rather than state/federal).
*Democrats believe the republican "traditional approach" has failed or otherwise lets too many people out in the cold. Their arguments are more from the emotional side (e.g. everyone has a right to good health, it is better that we all have the same standard of living than that some do too much better than others, that too many people are not capable of governing their own life and we should use government to ensure they are both cared for and that their actions be for the general good).

Both approaches have their pluses and minuses.....I see the sensible middle ground being that for society to succeed long term it must blend both, enough of the republican approach to have wealth, and enough of the democrat approach for everyone to feel they've had a fair chance at life and not rebel.

Politics is more intense now simply because the USA is at the start or middle of an economic decline and there are two approaches being discussed. Republicans want to do everything possible to recover growth and wealth (no matter how painful it will be). Democrats are more fatalistic and believe that we should be directing our attention towards managing the decline in such a way that no one group gets hurt too bad, and that if any group must be hurt -- it should be at the higher end. Unfortunately, these two approaches are somewhat the opposite of each other...

Re:same old same old

[maxwell demon]

My friend is a coal miner and voted for Obama because the union told him too. If that's not voting against your self interest, I don't know what is.

It is uninformed voting. Doing something because someone else tells you to do it isn't necessary against your self-interest. Of course you are in danger of acting against your self-interest if you blindly trust the advice of someone else. But it does not imply that you actually do.

I have no idea whether your friend voted against his self-interest, but you cannot conclude either way just from his choice being determined by the union's suggestion.

Re:same old same old

[Darinbob]

Yes and no. Democrats definitely are not defined as "look at individuals for success"; the Republicans often like to bash them for being the opposite of that in their support of big government programs. The parties are too hard to define so succinctly though. Democrats are for the workers but they're actually more supportive of unions than actual individual workers per se. Both parties are mostly beholden to big campaign donors, whether those donors are sitting on top of a giant pool of workers versus a giant pool of stockholders. The "big business" side of Republicans is just a small and declining wing of the party, and it's much less of a division between the two than it was in the past.

I definitely disagree with the naive European view that the two parties are identical. Just because both lean to the right of the European center does not make them identical. There are distinct and obvious differences. Maybe in certain areas they look very much alike (pro-business).

A big problem is that because we have a winner-takes-all process in most districts in the US we end up with a defacto two party system. A third party that's viable is very rare and doesn't last long. The two dominant parties will dance around a bit and end up covering roughly half the populace each, with things always kept in flux due to internal party divisions and occasional offshoots. A European parliament may form a coalition of a few parties in order to gain a majority control whereas the US Republican and Democratic parties are essentially coalitions themselves. This is what makes the US parties so hard to understand since they're internally inconsistent.

Very broadly speaking and due to history, Republicans tend to be mostly rural and southern whereas Democrats are urban and on the coasts. And this strongly influences their outlook. Republicans in the last 50 years have also been the most staunchly anti-communist as well (and thus anti-socialist). So a more rural Republican base is very distrustful of anything to do with welfare whereas a more urban Democratic base is in favor of government programs and assistance. However that strong southern and rural leaning in the Republicans make them much more conservative with regards to moral issues than the urban Democrats.

So you end up with the inconsistency of the Republicans being for individual freedoms in economic issues while being in favor of restrictions on individual freedoms in social areas, with the reverse broadly holding true for Democrats. Most of the other big differences can be traced back to either historical issues or the demographics of the voting bases. And the history goes all the way back to before the states were independent.

Re:same old same old

[jasno]

It's a lot more complicated than that. In each party you have different groups coming together - like monacle-wearing big-bussiness types teaming up with social conservatives in the GOP, or big labor teaming up with environmentalists in the DP. Sometimes one group may even believe things which conflict with the party's platform, but a key issue forces them back to the table - like religious types who like the social policies of the DP but stick with the GOP because of abortion, or blue collar workers who like the social conservatism or 'tough on crime' stance of the GOP.

In all cases, both parties are manipulated and controlled by politicians. Some have entered politics for noble causes, some for personal gain, and some for a feeling of importance or entitlement.

Both parties seem to favor some form of big business nowadays - possibly because big business is how things get done in America. Big business manufactures the products, hires the workers, and organizes us into something that has increased our standard of living(while having many, many obvious negative effects - I'm not getting into that).

Re:same old same old

[s73v3r]

My friend is a coal miner and voted for Obama because the union told him too. If that's not voting against your self interest, I don't know what is.

Wait, explain how voting for McCain would be in his self interest? Explain how putting the party in power that wants to dismantle any kind of environmental regulation, any kind of workplace regulation, and that has since then introduced legislation in several states to try and dismantle the power of unions would be voting in his self interest? If anything, the Democrats have the interest of the working class in mind far, far, far more than the Republicans.

Re:same old same old

[ninetyninebottles]

2. "Many members feel that they have a moral imperative to attempt to push their moral agenda on people who have nothing to do with them"

Democrats do this also with issues like affirmative action and gay marriage.

Generally arguing politics on Slashdot is the blind screaming at the deaf. Still, this point deserves to be addressed. Preventing discrimination based on gender is not forcing morals on anyone. On the topic of gay marriage it is ensuring individual liberty. Allowing each individual to choose for themselves is not pushing a moral agenda on others. It is giving each individual the freedom to choose. Now if there were a law trying to force people to marry those of the same sex, you might have a point.

Re:same old same old

[Lemmy Caution]

No. Because his "reasoned and well written opinion" is not backed up by the policies actually supported by Democratic legislatures and presidents, which have also enriched a lot of people "at the top." What he ascribes to the Republicans is actually a fairly universal consensus in both parties: called, variously, "neoliberalism," the "American consensus," etc. The Democrats are comfortable with a concentration of wealth in the top of the financial services sector, in the top of various cultural industries and "brand" firms, in all the things that make up the tertiary economy. Now, that happens to coincide with the interests of some other groups: generally, those economies prosper when there is more retail activity - that is, when the market is spread out wide. This is especially true for IT, culture/entertainment, and retail sectors. Policies which "dislodge" a bit of the wealth are useful to those sectors, but not ones which encourage saving. The Republicans' interest bloc thrives more with B2B; labor costs reduce the dynamism of B2B economics, and so they are less likely to want to increase the minimum wage, are a bit more interested in keeping the pressure on the worker so that they don't take too much of their employers' revenues, etc. But ultimately, they are both serving the interests of the (different) elites who fund them, back them, hang out with them, etc.

Re:same old same old

[TWX]

I'm a Libertarian and I don't like either party. You're wrong if you think there's a difference between the two parties.

1. "The Republicans generally support the goals of big business, and have a top-down approach to wealth."

So do the Democrats. How many poor Democrats are in congress? Seven of the top ten richest congressmen are Democrats.

I have never had any objection to people being wealthy, even ridiculously wealthy, and most Democrats that I've talked to on this matter do not have a problem with this either. The problem is in shirking responsibilities. No legal document founding this country makes any guarantee of being wealthy, or any respect for it.

If you want to talk about what wealth disparity does, look at the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Chinese Revolution, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. ALL had large elements of a super-rich, corrupt elite who wouldn't return to society some of the fruits of their success that they benefitted from society. When income and resource inequality gets too far out of whack, revolution happens.

2. "Many members feel that they have a moral imperative to attempt to push their moral agenda on people who have nothing to do with them"

Democrats do this also with issues like affirmative action and gay marriage.

I am not going to get into a debate about affirmative action right now, the issues of generations of racial discrimination and the ramifications of it are far too far reaching to get in to depth on in this forum. On the other hand, I don't see anyone forcing a social conservative to have a gay marriage. I don't see anyone forcing a social conservative to participate in a blow job, or in birth control, or in sex for pleasure, or in sex in anything other than the missionary position (I'm pointing directly at Santorum here), nor is anyone forcing them to have premarital sex or extramarital affairs. The point in this is that Democrats generally want to not prohibit activities between consenting adults. I do, however, see Republicans arguing that their social restrictions on who can have sex with who when everyone involved are consenting adults, and I find that more disgusting than any of the sexual practices that they seek to render illegal between those consenting adults.

3. "The Republicans are also very good at compelling members to conform and follow, even when a given member may disagree with a lot of party rhetoric, and even when it's not in their best interests to actually agree."

Same for the Democrats. How to you think the Democrats get 98% of the black vote. It's almost impossible to get 98% of any group to agree on anything. My friend is a coal miner and voted for Obama because the union told him too. If that's not voting against your self interest, I don't know what is.

I was referring to the elected officials, not to the public. Terri Schiavo comes to mind. In my opinion, Democrats should have removed the filibuster from the Senate's rules of order and rammed single-payer-with-optout (ie, if you opt out, no one is required to care for you if you can't pay), end of DADT, appointment of judges, cabinet post and agency director positions, and a whole host of other legislation down Republicans' throats just as the Republicans did when they managed to gain majorities in both chambers.

I know, you're libertarian, so you don't like many of my ideas, but if you want roads, clean air, clean water, postal delivery, the ability to purchase things that require loans, someone to deal with the results of your rights being violated, someone to put out fires, and much, much more, you'll need some form of organizing body, and that is called Government.

Re:same old same old

[noc007]

How does not voting for Obama = voting for McCain? They weren't the only two candidates on the ballot and there's even a write-in field. And don't say that if one doesn't vote for either party means they're throwing away their vote because that just keeps the two party BS rolling. If enough people voted, we could have someone from neither party in office.

Re:same old same old

[mattmarlowe]

Both parties attract those who are power hungry to their elected ranks:
- Republicans unfortunately have a tendency to allow politicians who are being paid by big business who want to gut all regulatory oversight and put in place laws that protect them. These guys certainly are as you describe.
- Democrats have the equal and opposite problem - politicians who are eager to give away other peoples money for projects and programs that don't work, as long as it gets them elected and in the elite so they can become the new "ruling class". When challenged about the fact that they are bankrupting the country, they respond with fake data/arguments or simply imply that some magic fairy will pay for it all ("the rich"), etc.

I find both very bad, but I don't blame the parties per say for the problem as much as the american voter for letting them get away with it. I also still think most voters intend to put someone who follows the party ideals I stated above into office, they just don't research enough or vote party line rather than review each candidate individually.

Re:same old same old

[ninetyninebottles]

2. "Many members feel that they have a moral imperative to attempt to push their moral agenda on people who have nothing to do with them"

Democrats do this also with issues like affirmative action and gay marriage.

Generally arguing politics on Slashdot is the blind screaming at the deaf. Still, this point deserves to be addressed. Preventing discrimination based on gender is not forcing morals on anyone. On the topic of gay marriage it is ensuring individual liberty. Allowing each individual to choose for themselves is not pushing a moral agenda on others. It is giving each individual the freedom to choose. Now if there were a law trying to force people to marry those of the same sex, you might have a point.

...I'm not against gay marriage but it is a moral issue for many people.

Yes, it is a moral issue. The issue is some people want to force their morals on others with the force of law and prevent individuals from making their own choices. Presenting the concept of allowing individuals to choose for themselves as an example of Democrats "do this also" when "do this" was previously described as "push their moral agenda on people" just shows how easy it is to buy into the fiery but empty rhetoric spewed forth by politicians.

Gay marriage is not an issue of Democrats pushing their morals on others. It is an issue of personal freedom and the government not promoting any specific religion. Marriage started out as a legal contract and then religions latched onto it. If the government wants to use marriage as a legal contract and write laws about it, they should do so in a way that does not discriminate between different religions or genders as is required by the first amendment. If Ron Paul and his ilk actually gave a damn about freedom they'd have exactly the opposite position on this topic.

Re:same old same old

[El Torico]

Marriages should not be licensed by local, state, or any government. Government shouldn't be involved with defining religious sacraments. If two people, regardless of sex and sexual preference, want to get married, then they can find whatever church/synagogue/temple/witches circle/shaman's tent that allows it and get married.

The rights that are associated with marriage such as health benefits, inheritance, etc. can be assigned in a legal agreement. Government can have what it wants (legal rights defined) and religion can have what it wants (definition of a sacrament) and they don't have to be (and shouldn't be) entangling each other over this.

Who uses technology versus who talks about it

[TWX]

I'm much more inclined to look at a candidate that uses or has used technology versus those who just like to talk about it.

In that sense, Obama came into his position while using a Blackberry to keep connected. Presumably this allowed him to use the business features of the device to make his work more efficient. As a user, he would be affected by changes to the law that might restrict what he could do if companies now stop things that they've been doing in practice.

A candidate who talks about technology without actually putting it into practice is not necessarily a good candidate, in that their understanding doesn't come to a practical level and the could think they understand issues that they don't, and since they don't even use the tech, making a bad decision wouldn't even impact them.

Run away from candidates who are proud of their provincial, luddite behavior. That's perfectly fine in any random person, but is unacceptable in someone who will be expected to make decisions that affect millions of people but can't be bothered to get informed.

"Those Internets" -George W. Bush

"The Internet is a great way to get on the Net" -Bob Dole

Re:Who uses technology versus who talks about it

[Anonymous Coward]

"We do have to make sure that there are computers in a computer age inside classrooms, and that they work and that there’s Internets that are actually -- there are Internet connections that actually function." - Obama

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/06/president-obama-internets_n_891781.html

Re:Who uses technology versus who talks about it

[White Flame]

Users don't understand the technology they use, and what legislation would do to it in the long (or even short) run. They look at currently available features, and it never enters their mind that other possibilities could exist. It's only the power users and geeks who do the digging to be informed (regardless if the subject is computing, cars, politics, etc).

I'd rather have a technologically unaware representative who will work against PATRIOT/SOPA/etc than somebody who uses an iPad and has buys into security theater and its IP equivalents.

Re:Who uses technology versus who talks about it

[roman_mir]

I'm much more inclined to look at a candidate that uses or has used technology versus those who just like to talk about it.

- then it's Ron Paul, no contest.

Why, you ask?

Because without technology and especially the Internet where would Ron Paul's campaign be? You certainly wouldn't hear about him or anybody like him in the MSM, so then what, town hall meetings?

Ron Paul is actually using the technology in the political process. Obama's blackberry and what not, and you are still going to get SOPA and PIPA and no veto from Obama.

Do you realise now how silly it is, to say that the most important thing is who uses the technology most is your preferred candidate, because you are actually oblivious as to how the technology is really used?

The question is actually this: who is going to prevent government force from taking your liberty to use and work with technology that you choose?

Geek issues?

[betterunixthanunix]

Geeks are not even in agreement on technical issues, so how can you expect a candidate that would be good for "geek issues?" Half of /. supports net neutrality as a way to protect the spirit and nature of the Internet, and half oppose it as yet another regulation that will lead to handouts to entrenched interests at the expense of everyone else. There are people who support the interests of the copyright lobby, and people who oppose them. There are free software supporters, and people who think the GPL is a bad thing. Any number of candidates might be supported by the general geek community.

choosing between 2 parties

[jockeys]

When asked to choose: "R or D?" it's sort of akin to a polite rapist asking you: "Which hole?"

Re:choosing between 2 parties

[ruiner13]

The two party system has to go. It only fosters a "you're with us or against us" mentality that doesn't get anything done. Get rid of political parties, make lobbying illegal, and one more thing. Make all politicians write summary documents about any bills they vote for. If they can't summarize it like any child does in reading class, they should NOT be able to vote on it. It also provides an audit trail into their dumb thoughts at the time.

Re:choosing between 2 parties

[Ichijo]

Duverger's law explains that we only have two viable parties because we use an antiquated voting system that encourages tactical voting. If you don't vote for one of the top two candidates, you're basically "throwing your vote away."

Re:choosing between 2 parties

[ruiner13]

I'd argue you are throwing your vote away if you DO vote for one of the two major parties. They are both so rigid in their hatred of each other, you can already determine the outcome of votes depending on which party introduced it. There is no rational thought any more.

Consider voting third party

[Presto Vivace]

Full disclosure, I managed Warren Mosler's 2010 US Senate campaign. But I encourage Slashdotters to look at the third party candidates running in their jurisdiction. As Eugene Debs pointed out, It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.

Re:Consider voting third party

[man_of_mr_e]

Well, that all depends. Was it better to vote for Nader in 2000, and get George Bush? Or would it have been better to vote for Al Gore and get Al Gore?

Hard to say, really, but I don't think the tautaulogy works for everyone.

John Huntsman

[jader3rd]

You can see John Huntsman tip toe around certain questions about the envrionment by saying that he believes that a leader should listen to the experts in the field on the issues.

Re:John Huntsman

[rrohbeck]

He's the only acceptable one in the GOP bunch. Romney is second but he's clearly a 1-percenter and beholden to big money so you can't expect any solutions from him.
Perry and Santorum are GWB squared and Libertarianism is a stupid outdated ideology so Paul doesn't make the cut either although he has a few good ideas. Gingrich has proven that he's an unethical asshole (just like Perry and Santorum.)

Re:John Huntsman

[MrMatto]

He's the only acceptable one in the GOP bunch. Romney is second but he's clearly a 1-percenter and beholden to big money so you can't expect any solutions from him. Perry and Santorum are GWB squared and Libertarianism is a stupid outdated ideology so Paul doesn't make the cut either although he has a few good ideas. Gingrich has proven that he's an unethical asshole (just like Perry and Santorum.)

A vote for Mitt Romney is a vote for the banks. Let's take a look and see who's paying for his campaign. Shall we?

Goldman Sachs $367,200

Credit Suisse Group $203,750

Morgan Stanley $199,800

HIG Capital $186,500

Barclays $157,750

Kirkland & Ellis $132,100

Bank of America $126,500

PriceWaterhouseCoopers $118,250

EMC Corp $117,300

JPMorgan Chase & Co $112,250

The Villages $97,500

Vivint Inc $80,750

Marriott International $79,837

Sullivan & Cromwell $79,250

Bain Capital $74,500

UBS AG $73,750

Wells Fargo $61,500

Blackstone Group $59,800

Citigroup Inc $57,050

Bain & Co $52,500

Courtesy of Open Secrets:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00000286

Only question you need to ask

[Anonymous Coward]

What issue can I use to divide them into two groups, such that one group is 'for' something and the other is 'against'?"

Next time you're at one of their townhall meetings, just ask one simple question -

vi or emacs?

Two party system is failing us

[tatman]

I'm beginning to believe this "2 party system" is the problem. It seems like the R's and D's just recycle the same ole, same ole; as some other comments have stated. Independents and other parties have little hope, and very rare success, of seeing candidates in Congress. I can't even imagine its even possible that we will ever see the white house held by a party other than R's and D's. Part of it the problem, maybe all of it, is $ from corporate and union donors. There is just too much $ handed over via campaign contributions to too few candidates.

Re:Ron Paul!

[Sarten-X]

Probably not Ron Paul any time.

His preferred position on economics is to ignore that silly mathematics stuff and go with a mix of psychology and gut instinct.

Re:Ron Paul!

[Cyberllama]

The free market is magic. It's powered by unicorns. Have some faith.

I don't think the OP understood what was meant ...

[Wrath0fb0b]

An oft-repeated sentiment on Slashdot is that we should change the situation by voting in better officials. An opinion that appears in nearly every political thread is: 'we're to blame because we elected these people.' On the eve of the first primary (in New Hampshire), I have to wonder: how can we tell the candidates apart? Ron Paul is an obvious exception, and I am not discounting him, but otherwise it seems that no candidate has made a stand on any issue. Consider the candidates (all of them, of any party) as a set. What issue can I use to divide them into two groups, such that one group is 'for' something and the other is 'against'?

I don't think you got the appropriate sense of the pronouns in use. When it's said that we(1) should change the situation by voting in better officials and that we(1) have no one to blame but ourselves, that we(1) refers to the voting populace at large. You've transposed that to mean we(2) meaning /.ers (or perhaps geeks in general) but we(2) do not have a lot of political clout for a number of reasons mainly boiling down to the number of voters that will base their decision on "geek issues". First, there aren't many of us -- so already that's going to be a niche demographic to target. Second, as a group, we are very divided on non-geek issues such as economics and foreign policy. That makes us less attractive as a target because it means that we aren't likely to vote as a bloc unless geek issues become so important that they override other policy differences (for instance, most /.ers wouldn't vote for a foreign-policy hawk that was anti-gay and pro-life even if he had 100% from the EFF). Finally, geek issues just aren't very poignant with the electorate at large -- virtually no one is going to make their political decision based on those issues so there's very little for candidates to gain (and much to lose) by staking out strong positions.

Ultimately, living in a democracy means accepting that sometimes the voters either don't care or disagree with you, even after all your attempts to convince them otherwise. It's a hard pill to swallow, especially when many arguments are of the form "if you REALLY understood issue X then you would have policy Y" and its contrapositive "if you don't favor policy Y then you don't understand issue X" that simply can't accept that sometimes you just can't convince people. Politics always has losers, and the losers invariably believe that they are right and somehow the political process must be defective merely because they lost.

[ And, I hate to say this but I'm not being cruel here, I personally will not vote on geek issues. I think foreign policy and economics are far more important than SOPA and patent law. That's not to say I don't have opinions on the latter, or think that the 'wrong' policy might harm us, but rather I have priorities and I'd rather have the foreign policy that I like and the geek law that I don't rather than the other way around, in such cases where it appears that I cannot have both concurrently. ]

Re:Ron Paul!

[z4ce]

Erm... I'm pretty sure RP has a much, much better mathematical background in economics than any of the other candidates. He has actually written books on it, is a member of the Mises institute, and has photos of Hayek, Mises, and Rothbard on his wall.

I'm not sure if I agree %100 on his monetary policies, but he's certainly learned about it. You might prefer Keynesian economics but its certainly not more based in mathematics.

Pete Ashdown!

[nilbog]

Pete Ashdown isn't running for president, but he is running for a senate seat against that epic ass clown Orrin Hatch. He started the best ISP I've ever used here in Utah and has run for congress before with a very tech-savvy platform and utilized cool technologies in his campaign.

Check him out: http://peteashdown.org/

In my mind getting rid of Orrin Hatch and getting Pete Ashdown to replace him is killing two birds with one stone.

Re:SOPA is a good one to decide between candidates

[Marxist Hacker 42]

The Democratic Senators from Oregon are both opposed to SOPA- and Ron Wyden has offered his services to Fillibuster it.

Re:Ron Paul!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really, he actually wanted the USA to default on all debt. Tell the other countries to stuff it up their butts and say, "the USA will not pay any of it's debts, If you want to try and collect, please send the air force your GPS coordinates and we will launch your payment to that location."

and honestly it would have been better for the USA to have completely Defaulted. we would be in a far better financial position right now if we did.

a Lot of rich people would have lost some money, no big loss there. All the middle and lower class already lost any of their money, so they would not lose anything.

The problem is, every single one of the scumbags in the Congress, White house, and Supreme Court care more about the ultra rich than the poor. the Democrats support bullshit like SOPA that only benefit the rich. The Republicans believe in the bullshit of the trickle down theory. in reality all of them are there to do one thing. protect their riches and their friends riches.

It has always been that way, and will always be that way. Luckily us poor have TV to keep us preoccupied and not pay attention to what the rich people are doing.

Re:SOPA is a good one to decide between candidates

[Ethanol-fueled]

I understand that Ron Paul is a radical. However, calling him "not viable" is defeatist given that his numbers are significantly strong. I also understand that voting for mainstream candidates is a lose-lose situation no matter what letter is appended to their name. Knowing my vote will not make a real difference, I will instead vote solely to send the message that I'm fed-up with the establishment's shit. And the establishment's treatment of Paul shows that they're afraid, otherwise they'd allow him more lip service, and I'd vote for him for that reason alone even if I weren't paying attention to everything else.

Those of you who are also fed up do the same. If not for Ron Paul, for a sensible third-party candidate. Everybody else is not working for your best interest.

If you can't vote for actual socialists, nobody?

[rbrander]

A conservative should be against disruption, and a progressive should be in favour of, well, progress.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Democratic politicians are not unlikely to be in the back pocket of Big Coal, Big Oil, and Big Content, where they try not to notice the Republicans in there with them. At least Republicans hate solar, we can at least distinguish the two on one tech issue.

Frankly, I think ALL the available politicians are "conservative" about disruptive technologies, since new companies are still poor and unable to bribe\\\\\\ contribute to their campaigns, and the existing Powers That Be are able to ensure that any disruptions are thwarted, or at least slowed down.

I think that Canada's NDP ("New Democratic Party" - based on the British Labour Party - no longer actual socialists, but as far as we go in that direction) does show what a genuinely progressive party would be like in the States. They don't take corporate contributions. And here's the most anti-DRM piece I've ever read from a national politician - from an NDP Member of Parliament, last month in the Huffington Post, protesting our Conservative Party's new "C11" bill:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/romeo-saganash/copyright-canada-reform-bill-c-11_b_1143332.html

Excerpt:

"Most nations with modern copyright laws do not criminalize bypassing digital locks for non-commercial use. They allow people to burn a CD from music purchased on an iPod. They let you copy a new DVD to your laptop. They don't prevent someone who is visually impaired from using software to read ebooks aloud. They don't stop teachers from referencing other media to illustrate a lesson. Under Bill C-11, all of these acts are crimes."

Re:So you like NDAA, SOPA/PIPA and high unemployme

[s73v3r]

Ron Paul has introduced legislation that would ban federal courts from hearing issues on the Constitutionality of gay marriage bans. You know, the very court system the Constitution itself sets up to hear these kinds of questions. So don't give me that bullshit that he's not against gay marriage.

And I'll believe the stance that he wants to "get the federal government out of marriage altogether" when he introduces a bill to remove recognition of straight marriage from the federal government.

Re:SOPA is a good one to decide between candidates

[hedwards]

There's nothing principled about making a decision and sticking to it regardless of what the facts suggest one do. As President he would be continuously getting more and more information and some of it would turn out to be wrong. Sticking to old stances when new facts come in isn't a wise move for a leader.

Somebody that's incapable of compromise is not desirable as a leader. President Bush had a habit of never backing down and never compromising through his first term in office and ultimately he got basically nothing done his second term because he had so pissed off the opposition that when his own party turned on him he couldn't make any deals with the Democrats.

Also, there's nothing principled about selling out your country because your ego doesn't allow you to change your mind ever.

Re:SOPA is a good one to decide between candidates

[Ethanol-fueled]

In short appealing to an extremely small minority...

21.4% for third place in Iowa is not "extremely small" when the leading two got only ~24.5% each. Yet another attempt to marginalize Paul and his supporters.

The establishment would be afraid of him if he wasn't appealing to such a tiny demographic

See above. And if you're calling the overwhelming support from military personnel "a tiny demographic," then perhaps you should enlist and put your ass on the line. I hear Iran's pretty nice this time of year.

if people would vote for the candidate that best represents their point of view we wouldn't be having the sorts of problems that we're having.

A moronic and naive statement given the state of American politics. Obama, for example. Where's all that hope and change he promised? How do we know a candidate will work in our best interests based just on what they say? What about the other republican crackpots?

Also, this is a false dilemma...

No, believing that one should vote only for an establishment candidate on either side of the fence is a false dillemma, one that's been utterly ruinous to our country. If Ron Paul is elected, two things could happen: The first is that Ron Paul will spectacularly betray us like Obama did. Okay, fair enough, people start either fleeing the country or picking up their guns. Maybe Ron Paul will be elected but be powerless to do anything. That's fine, because at least some progress was made and the message was sent. Same if Ron Paul didn't win, but got at least a third of the votes.

Re:Ron Paul!

[Ol Olsoc]

Raality check.

In a true free market, you set up and operate. If you are good, you succeed,

No regulations, just economic success or failure That way a person who is very talented, yet not certified or educated can rise on their own merit.

What's your thought on taking your children to a pediatrician under this system?

And that is the problem. Free marketers want to believe that the free market can cure all ills. It doesn't. It has the fatal flaw of assuming that everyone is ethical. What it doesn't take into account is that there are some people who are not going to be satisfied until they control everything. It doesn't take into account the many things that actually operate better when there is some regulation.

Because the application to the true free market of say taking your children to that free market pediatrician is that he might be totally incompetent. He might kill your children. But after he kills enough children, his name will get around and he'll go out of business. The free market worked. There's a whole list. Your house might burn down because of bad electrical work. You might buy a car that falls apart at highway speeds and kills you. But if it happens enough, word will get out and that company will go out of business. But yeah, the free market worked. It's kind of like evolutionary adaptation. What doesn't adapt, dies. But people seem to forget that that adaptation is the small percentage that doesn't die.

I liken some of the ideas of libertarians to be kind of like the anti-vaccination crowd. "No one gets such and such disease any more, so getting vaccines is stupid, and dangerous sometimes!" they don't remember when Polio and pertussis and measles other childhood diseases killed many children each year.

The libertarians don't remember why we made anti-monopoly and anti trust laws and an environmental protection agency and other laws and regulations.

Funny thing is, on a intellectual level, I am a libertarian. On a pragmatic level, I know enough about humans to understand it won't work.

Although it would have been kind of neat to see the Cuyahoga when it caught on fire...

Re:So you like NDAA, SOPA/PIPA and high unemployme

[Miseph]

"Christ, again with the gay marriage shit. Is it REALLY that fucking important..."

Civil Liberties are always important. They don't become irrelevant just because there are other problems in the world. Iran appears to be developing nuclear weapons; surely that is a more pressing concern than dealing with corruption that has been the largely acceptable status quo for almost 30 years?

"Come to terms with it already; you`re NEVER going to have a candidate who meets you on every single view you have."

Probably not. I don't think it's so unreasonable to expect agreement on a few areas, though.

"Get a little perspective already. Gay folks should be thankful if they can`t get legally married. You know how many straight folks would give their right thumb for that?"

Har har har. Hilarious. You should do the Catskills.

Geek interest? Start with science.

[kaliann]

Other than John Huntsman, the GOP candidates have serious issue with basic science.
As in, they all claim to believe at least part of this list:
  - Creationism is a valid theory. (Nevermind fossils or the definition of scientific "theory".)
  - Global warming is a hoax or not something that should be addressed. (Nevermind the data and the >98% concurrence among climatologists.)
  - Vaccines cause retardation (Nevermind... facts)
  - Abstinence education is effective. (Nevermind the data that show how high pregnancy rates are when it's all that's available.)
  - Abortion is pretty much never a medical necessity. (That's from the ACTUAL PHYSICIAN candidate, too.)
  - Being gay is a mental disease/lifestyle choice/bad decision/horrible influence on children (Nevermind that the AMA and American Psychiatric association recognize it as normal variation, and studies show gay parents are fine.)
  - Sex is only for man-woman-marriage-baby-making. (Nevermind reality. And Newt Gingrich.)

It's quite evocative of that famous Asimov quote: Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'

So yeah, I'd say Huntsman at least doesn't try to play "who is the most sincere anti-intellectual for their Deity" by denying science. As a geek, that's something I like in a candidate.
I wish sanity were something that was a little easier to parlay into support, but the Primaries are the Crazy Olympics, and it's all about who can out-God and out-blue-collar the next.

I want to like a party that espouses fiscal and personal responsibility. I want to embrace the idea of less intrusive government. I just don't think it should come at the cost of science.

Re:So you like NDAA, SOPA/PIPA and high unemployme

[compro01]

1. You need to think harder. The CBO found in 2004 there were 1,138 instances in federal law where marital status is a factor in determining rights, privileges, or benefits. Joint property, medical decisions, inheritance, and a lot more.

2. Article IV, Section 1 disagrees with your assertion that it isn't a federal issue. States are refusing to recognize legally performed marriages from other states.