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White House Responds To SOPA, PIPA, and OPEN
eefsee writes "The White House today responded to two petitions with a statement titled 'Combating Online Piracy while Protecting an Open and Innovative Internet.' They note that 'We must avoid creating new cybersecurity risks or disrupting the underlying architecture of the Internet.' In particular, they cite manipulation of DNS as problematic. But overall the statement is clearly supportive of anti-piracy efforts and lays down this challenge: 'So, rather than just look at how legislation can be stopped, ask yourself: Where do we go from here? Don't limit your opinion to what's the wrong thing to do, ask yourself what's right.' So, what's right?"
There's nothing wrong with being supportive of anti-piracy efforts. People deserve to get paid for their work. Those efforts, however, shouldn't undermine technological infrastructure. The White House's statement is overall a condemnation of the legislation, but it does allow leeway for Obama to sign an amended bill that addresses the most pressing concerns.
Given past positions, it will be interesting to see how Slashdotters respond to the question in the submission. Allow me to quote from a recent comment in a GPL discussion:
The comment was modded up. When it's a case of a GPL violation, the violators who feel entitled to the free labor of strangers are childish and entitled. But in an article on the Pirate Bay, suddenly it's all about demonizing the evil RIAA and MPAA, and piracy is just a cultural revolution that sticks it to the evil corporations--the artists who aren't getting paid don't even enter into the discussion, probably because of the guilty feelings it would inspire to be reminded of the reality of the situation.
The point being that there probably should be an attempt made to hinder online piracy in some way. We can't just let it spiral completely out of control, to the point where it's no longer lucrative to produce anything. Part of the reason the console platform became so appealing to game developers is the reduced amount of piracy compared to the PC platform. In other words, they can actually make money from their work, money that is used to make more games. You can't have a functioning long-term economy in which people never get compensated for anything; people are trying to make a living, and they use the income to produce more contributions to society. If your boss withheld your paycheck and told you that the code you wrote is now theirs free of charge because "information wants to be free," you'd sue for the wages and win. But if the code you wrote is included in a game, and the game appears on Pirate Bay, downloaders will happily pirate it and never even dream of spending a time, and they'll justify it until they're red in the face.
The most common one they use is that it's "free advertising"--that pirating games leads them to purchase games. Correlation doesn't equal causation, however, and the fact they buy games as well as pirate them simply suggests that they like games so much that they acquire them by any means possible, and when they can't pirate, they buy. Either that, or they buy to resolve their feelings of guilt. When Louis CK offered his video for download, he made an interesting comment in an NPR interview:
I've noticed this attitude as well. It's very, very annoying.
I'm probably risking a lot of downmods here--if there's anything Slashdot seems to dislike more than comments about Slashdot, it's comments that are anti-piracy. But I have karma to burn, and I felt like starting the conversation anyway.
This simply is not enough. From what it sounds like, they'll sign the bill as long as the DNS portion is removed. This will still kill many user-generated content websites on the Internet.
Let's ban 192.168.*.* and 10.*.*.*
If the economy depends on the imposition of artificial scarcity on an abundant good, then the terms have to be reasonable.
20 year copyright term limits are very reasonable. The current term limits + options to extend are absolutely unreasonable, and they drive people to rebellion.
Also, while it is true that a punishment should be a deterrent to crime, the punishment must also be within the order-of-magnitude of actual damages in order to be just. The current punishments are outright ridiculous, and they also drive people to rebellion.
Make fair laws and enforce them fairly, and watch the people happily fall in line.
Keep it legal, and everyone wins.
What's right is to stop passing legislation to bandage up the entertainment industry's ancient, bloated, rotting business model. Make it easy for people to buy music/movies/tv shows inexpensively-- and without DRM-- and the problem will solve itself. As long as pirating a movie is 100x easier than buying a Bluray and sitting through hours of previews and FBI warnings, piracy will continue despite legislation. Give us real digital copies of movies for sale, not DRM-infested WMV files that we can only play on one Windows machine with Internet access. Give the people what they want and they will empty their wallets in your direction.
So, rather than just look at how legislation can be stopped, ask yourself: Where do we go from here?
I really don't understand why further regulation is needed here to protect the rights of the content owners. Are there not copyright laws in effect? Don't they already have the ability to take down sites (with a certain amount of due process), sue for damages, etc?
I often see the use and positive impact of regulation (not dumping raw sewage in the river, etc) - but I still don't follow what exactly the need really is to provide more control to the corporations over the net (I absolutely understand their desire for it, but not any valid reason why there should be any further corporate control allowed).
The timbre of this administration remains the same. It gave away health care by inches to the corporations until they were able to declare "we win!" while trying to look like they were actually fighting. And now they're doing the same with the 'net, as far as I can tell: putting on a dog and pony show, but preparing to hand the show over to those paying the lobbyists.
Check your premises.
Abolishing IP is what's right. Simple as that.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Abolish copyright. We gave it a 200 year trial, and it has not served its purpose of making artists self-sufficient. Instead, it has only further entrenched the patron model by giving the patrons legal teeth, handing our culture over to corporations and the insanely rich. Further, we're seeing more and more that free speech and copyright are completely incompatible. It's time we decide which we care more about: a fictitious emotion-backed economic system, or basic human rights.
Great Intellect...
It would be a lot easier to address piracy if the entertainment industry wasn't making money hand over fist.
Nobody has a problem with them making a profit... even a big profit.... but when they pay an A-list star $25 million to act in a movie and still make enough money to fund private jets and private islands... well let's just say maybe the price should come down.
Clearly technology has put a whole new aspect into capitalism with respect to entertainment... after all even with piracy Hollywood is raking in huge bucks.... but it is also cutting off a revenue stream by forcing some into piracy. But not all: some folks pirate just because they can.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
This is a warning. We have to come up with competing systems to address the problem. Simply saying "do nothing" isn't going to work. They're going to pass something. And if we offer them nothing to pass they'll just take what the RIAA gives them and run with it.
It's very important that the EFF amongst others come up with some alternative... Or we're boned.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Don't they already have the ability to take down sites (with a certain amount of due process), sue for damages, etc?
Not if a site is hosted and operated offshore. For example, AllOfMP3 operated with a license valid only in Russia, and from the perspective of U.S. law, it was selling infringing copies.
Youtube should only be liable if they obstruct copyright holders.
Damages are on whoever uploads the damn thing.
A happy middle ground might be to require Youtube to fork over any ad revenue they collect on the video.
"While we believe that online piracy by foreign websites is a serious problem that requires a serious legislative response"
People like to focus on right and wrong, but no one is scrutinizing whether a "legislative response" is EVEN NECESSARY at all. Show me data, independent verifiable data of the "losses". The GAO has already concluded:
"Three widely cited U.S. government estimates of economic losses resulting
from counterfeiting cannot be substantiated due to the absence of underlying
studies."
Source: www.gao.gov/new.items/d10423.pdf
As reported by Ars:
http://ars/technica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/us-government-finally-admits-most-piracy-estimates-are-bogus.ars
This industry over blows perceived threats of technology, just as it did with the VCR and the MP3 player. The solution is innovation, not legislation or litigation.
This.
A part of the solution is to be less draconian in punishment and more successful at catching people. Violating copyright is something that should basically be a traffic offense, and instead the law literally makes every American a felon.
A part of the solution is to establish reasonable protections. Copyright terms have been extended periodically since the first copyright act was passed in 1790 or so. It is insane--nobody, and I mean nobody, is making a decision about whether to invest based on potential profits fifty years from now. While perhaps extended protection is fair for works that have never turned a profit or where the profit is not significant compared to the labor involved, it certainly is not justified once fifteen years have passed and a work has earned a 1000% return. We need something more just than the current blanket number of years.
A part of the solution is international relations. If a foreign nation doesn't enforce a reasonable copyright law, we dredge up some sanctions or incentives if they are cost-justified. This makes it so that it will be in the other nation's interest to enforce copyright law. If we can't pay them enough from profits to make it a net gain for them to enforce copyright law, then economically speaking it shouldn't be enforced. (Obviously unless transaction costs of the incentive structure are too high, but that's a relatively narrow range of profits).
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
'So, rather than just look at how legislation can be stopped, ask yourself: Where do we go from here? Don't limit your opinion to what's the wrong thing to do, ask yourself what's right.'
Easy -- repeal the DMCA and ACTA, don't pass SOPA, PIPA, or OPEN, roll copyright back to, say, 50 years, and give that a ten year test run while we do some serious data gathering and analysis.
Most of our copyright law over the past 15 years has been "The sky is falling" stuff. Wild overstepping of the balance between copyright holders and the interests of the public. We are spending an enormous amount of money doing a lousy job of protecting something that might not need protecting, and might not work any longer. We have very little data on the cost/benefit of all this enforcement, no research on alternatives, what data we do have shows extremely poor correlation between enforcement and increased revenue, does not consider the cost of new business models foregone, and the data that we have that claims to show the cost of infringement is based on the wildly inaccurate theory that every infringement is a foregone sale.
The right answer, if you are a copyright supporter like me, is to ease back to something that the public will be less likely to revolt against while we do some serious objective research on the problem. The right answer is to find out how we can fund the progress of science and the useful arts under this new reality. Copying does not cost any money any more. That is a fundamental change that we need to adapt to. Copyright was invented based on a premise that is no longer true. Failing to consider the new reality and research how to adapt to it is as stupid as Krushchev insisting on Communism. Nice theory, except it does not work.
We need to think about that and come up with a solution, not just fire wildly into the dark. None of the legislation over the past 15 years has made a hint of a dent in infringement. Same thing we've been saying ever since the DMCA was just a twinkle in the RIAA's eye. These laws cannot work, mathematically speaking, because reality has changed. We need to stop the wishful madness and think of how to turn free copying into a win. Seeing as how it is a massive boon to society to be able to reproduce things for free, that shouldn't be too hard. We are making this harder than it needs to be.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
wasted on paying off politicians instead of setting up a distribution channels/websites that makes all music, movies, written works available to customers world wide at digital media price.
Gimme movies at 4$ with out DRM and I'll buy 20 per month instead of downloading them for free where at the end you don't get a penny from me
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
First, do no harm.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
If it weren't for pirating children in poor families would never be able to be even one-tenth of cultured
Then the problem isn't piracy. It's that the popular culture can be made non-free. Ideally it'd be possible to work around this by creating works and distributing them under a license for free cultural works. But the RIAA labels, MPAA studios, major professional and collegiate sport leagues, and other publishers of non-free popular culture collude with the traditional media (largely radio and television) to keep free works off the air. And no, the general public is unlikely to switch to Internet radio because a smartphone capable of receiving Internet radio is much more expensive per month than a dumbphone and an FM radio, nor to Internet TV due to monthly download caps that MPAA-affiliated ISPs such as Comcast have started to impose.
So, what's right?
Laws that serve the people. Really, you need that spelled out?
Put strict limits on lobbyism, campaign contributions and the rights of large corporations. Don't fix the symptoms of a bad system, fix the system.
Oh, and fix the tax laws. The USA once revolted with the slogan "no taxation without representation". It's high time to reverse it: No representation without taxation. If a corporation wants to dodge taxes, fine. But make it very, very illegal for tax-evaders to influence politics.
And finally, (and yes, you need all three) re-introduce the death penalty for corporations. Come up with a good way to take down a corporation so taking it down does minimal damage to society. Then do it on the appropriate crimes. Like endangering the economy - if Al Qaida had done 10% of the damage that greedy speculators have, you guys would have bombed Afghanistan and everything within a 1000 mile radius into near-earth-orbit.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I'm all for anti-piracy measures, but any new law should also have a means for the little guy (or business) to address infringement from a large corporation. Creating something the further empowers the large corporations is not the answer. It seems as of these corporations want to screw everyone in the world when it comes to copyright violations, but they want immunity or just flat out ignore it when they get caught "lifting" someone else's work.
And I've said this before, if these media companies want to use tax dollars to fight "piracy" (or to keep their dying business model alive), then before anything gets passed into law based on their "facts", then someone should do a complete and comprehensive audit of their bookkeeping to ensure that this is the case. Of course, that'll never happen.
The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains
And if those sites are located in China? Do you then start blocking them at the border?
If you want to eliminate piracy, then structure the laws to encourage payment for creation, not copying, of works. The software industry has been 90% like this forever (90% of software developers are paid directly to write bespoke software, not paid in revenue selling copies of software) and open source is gradually encroaching on the remaining 10% (people get paid to add features to open source projects that extend it to meet a user's requirements). The entertainment industry, however, is showing no sign of making this transition, even though there is no long-term future for the pay-for-copies model: it simply will not work as the cost of producing copies drops to zero.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
The internet is an intangible end-to-end network with no storage, no brains and no memory. No matter what kind of internet connected service you use you are connecting across the internet from your equipment to some physical equipment somewhere else on planet earth. There is no such thing as cyberspace, although politicians seem to think so. Any illicit activity "on the internet" is still actually taking place in the real world with some meat bag person running it. So if the crimes still real world, why fight it with censorship? This seems to be the problem in understanding the politicians and their lobbyist masters have.
To use the car analogy, censoring the internet makes as much sense to setting up roadblocks to search public vehicles as they go about their business, and the purpose of this would be to prevent the movement of stolen goods. Burglaries and theft are a huge problem in society, that have always been there as a background noise to day-to-day life, but we aren't destroying civil liberties to try and stop it once and for all. Nor are we doing it by an absurd method such as censorship - so much industry depends on the movement of vehicle traffic, which is why we don't censor traffic, mail, phone calls.
Crime is a symptom not a disease.
Piracy is a symptom not a disease.
Right now we're being force-fed some particularly nasty painkillers to treat a headache.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Seriously, that's what they came back with? How about starting with copyrights being to protect the identity of a work of art's originator, not as a financial weapon and then go from there!
Hopefully, NewYorkCountryLawyer hasn't posted yet because he's actually writing a brief to send to the WH starting with just that.
Without copyright, the only ways that I can think of for artists to get paid in the digital age is through draconian DRM and black box playback devices.
There are other payment models that are possible and that have been used with varying degrees of success so far. Just because you cannot think of other payment models does not mean they do not exist.
Palm trees and 8
When it comes to Wikileaks, the freedom of the internet and the cancerous copyright law we now have, there is no such thing as a voice of sanity in the government. The only reason I'm voting for Obama again is because I know that whatever loonie the Republicans rally behind will put up the exact same platform (with the added bonus of fucking social services and civil rights).
This is depressing.
Yeah, wrap your head around that one.
If you want to do what's RIGHT, take the example of red light cameras. Everyone hates them. They get massive opposition (at least in my area) whenever they're introduced. Now, why, exactly do you think this is? It's not because it's a waste of money, it's actually quite profitable. It's because they WORK. People run red lights all the time and they don't want to get caught.
To continue the driving metaphor, you speed on the highway. I know you do, everyone does. It's an open secret that at some point in your life you've probably gone above 80 and NOT gotten caught. This would be so trivial to stop it's laughable. A couple lines of code in the onboard computer to limit your speed to 70 mph. Depending on your region you could just take it to a mechanic and have them adjust the limit in accordance with local laws. Now how would you feel if they did that? Pretty pissed I'm sure. I know why I would be, because they're taking away my freedom to break the law.
Now I'm sure by now you think I'm going to say piracy serves some important moral purpose. It doesn't, it's wrong. But the RIGHT thing to do is to let it happen, because like the occasional speeder or the kid with a dime bag of pot, it is not something life threatening that MUST be stopped in its entirety. You have a choice to make between harming the tech sector or harming the entertainment sector. The right thing to do is to take the choice of lesser harm. SOPA and PIPA will hurt EVERYONE in a fantastic myriad of ways I'm sure you're all familiar with. Piracy only hurts those who are pirated against, and only in one way - by eroding their profit margin.
This isn't to say we should give up the fight against piracy. That would be like abolishing all traffic laws, there would be chaos on the streets. Nobody wants that. But we have to take MEASURED steps against it. We can never eradicate piracy, so in taking steps to fight piracy, the government should first make sure nobody is going to get hit in the crossfire.
Or you could just subsidize the entertainment industry and institute a piracy tax on high speed internet connections, that could work too. Didn't Switzerland already do that?
The following are both right and fair:
1. Restore original copyright length of 20 years. Failing that, abolish copyright altogether. Tighten the language to make clear that *only* the specific work of art (writing, music, painting, sculpture, etc) is copyrighted - NOT any ideas, characters, setting/background etc, and that the public's fair-use right to re-use & remix existing works is unabridged.
2. Revoke all Software, Design, Business Methods, Gene, and Pharmaceutical Usage patents and all other patents that aren't actually inventions.
3. Restrict Trade Marks to just company names and brand names. No slogans, no words, no phrases. The only valid purpose of trademarks is to protect purchasers from fakes.
4. For all three, explicitly acknowledge and acknowledge that they are not rights or property, they are artificial monopolies granted for specific civic purposes - and that where they conflict with those civic purposes, the monopoly power is revoked (e.g. if it can be proved that a patent stifles innovation rather than fostering it, it is to be revoked).
5. Penalties for abusing the monopoly powers granted by copyrights, patents, and trademarks must be sufficient to discourage such abuse even by corporations with deep pockets.
6. Penalties for infringing the monopoly powers should be restricted to commercial and large-scale infringements by businesses, companies, corporations, and other organisations.
What I want to know is when are they going to start pursuing libraries for their egregious practice of making available copyrighted works for any Tom, Dick or Harry that happens to walk through the door. Each time a book is checked out it could have been copied so that's another violation right there. It's time to start cracking down on these serial offenders. Persecution shouldn't be too difficult either. I hear that they keep detailed records of each time a copyrighted work is lent out and potentially duplicated. My understanding is that they even collect money for this sometimes. This sort of thing has to stop before our entire civilization descends into anarchy and chaos. Won't someone think of the children?
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
This is Obama playing both sides of the fence. I recently read an article that aptly articulated Obama's modus operandi for issues like this, where he needs to placate the opposition, esp. when it comes from those within his own party: Issue statement via WH staff or other outlets without actually saying anything himself. In this case, the 'White House statement' attempts to placate SOPA opponents, but without Obama himself actually saying anything himself that might be an offense toward the big money interests (i.e. Hollywood, the MPAA, etc., and their deep-pocketed lobbyists) he can't risk losing, especially in an election year.
False. The GPL does not "expect" users to contribute anything. The GPL requires that parties who modify and redistribute the code make their modifications available.
"Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."