Apple Unveils Software To Reinvent the Textbook

redletterdave writes "At the Guggenheim Museum in New York, Apple announced on Thursday it would update its iBooks platform to include textbook capabilities and also added a new platform called iBooks Author, which lets anyone easily create and publish their own e-books. Apple's senior VP of marketing, Phil Schiller, introduced iBooks 2, which has a new textbook experience for the iPad. The books themselves display larger images, and searching content is made significantly easier: all users need to do is tap on a word and they are taken straight to an appropriate glossary or index section in the back of the book. Navigating pages and searching is also easy and fluid, and at the end of each chapter is a full review with questions and pictures. If you want the answers to the questions, all you need to do is tap the question to get instant feedback. Apple also launched the iBooks Author app, which lets anyone easily create any kind of textbook and publish it to the iBookstore, and the new iTunes U platform, which helps teachers and students communicate better, and even send each other materials and notes created with iBooks Author. All of the apps are free, and available for any and all students, from K-12 to major universities."

Comments

I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a textbook example of a product launch.

Re:I was at the announcement

[cayenne8]

While this all sounds good...I dunno if it would have helped me back in school, or even now (although I would try it).

I found back in HS and college...that with dead tree books...I often would do like I did on my notes in a separate note book....I'd scribble notes, and make doodles in the margins.

I found that by doing this...when taking tests, I could close my eyes, and mentally turn the pages of my notes and even my books and 'see' the pages in my head and find the answers.

Even today...while search and all is great with digital media, I find that to actually quickly remember and be able to recall importing things I'm reading...the act of my physically writing down quotes and notes, seems to chisel it in my brain for quick recall later. Just reading and searching on a screen doesn't seem to do it for me as well.

Maybe it is just me tho....

Re:I was at the announcement

[LandDolphin]

You are not alone. People learn and recall information in different ways. That's why there isn't a single solution. A teacher using this technology needs to also require note taking and assignments outside of the iPad-Textbook system to reach everyone.

Re:I was at the announcement

[ColdWetDog]

You actually read your textbooks? And you admit that?

I'll bet you even stoop so low as to read instruction manuals.

Re:I was at the announcement

[jc42]

While this all sounds good...I dunno if it would have helped me back in school, or even now (although I would try it). I found back in HS and college...that with dead tree books...I often would do like I did on my notes in a separate note book....I'd scribble notes, and make doodles in the margins.

This is a major problem in other areas beside schools. For example, I've seen a few attempts to provide musicians in bands and orchestras with computerized displays on their stands. This also sounds good at first, and it does give them very quick access to all the music in the system's library. But in the first rehearsal with the electronic gadgets, the musicians quickly discover that they have no practical way to scribble notes on the music. There is no second rehearsal with the electronics; the musicians simply state that they've gone back to paper and won't discuss the topic any more.

Similarly, I've had a "smart phone" since the late 1990s (not unusual for a software developer), and I've tried out all their calendar apps. I continue to buy a new paper pocket calendar every year. Using the phones' input methods are just too clumsy, and they never allow a lot of the things that I scribble on the paper. Of course, this is partly because in last year's pocket calendar, I find entries written in Cyrillic, Hebrew and Chinese characters. You'd think the calendar makers would like to sell to Serbian, Israeli, and Chinese customers, so that shouldn't be a problem, right? Try finding a smart-phone in the US with a calendar app that accepts non-English characters. Even people who speak Spanish or French complain about this.

Paper still has one strong advantage: You can scribble anything you like on it, and it holds the image until you (laboriously ;-) erase it. The tablet makers will have to match this capability if they're serious about replacing paper in a lot of environments.

Actually, I've seen, and occasionally used, some prototype software that let users scribble random junk on a "document". Such things existed back in the 1990s. But they don't seem to be available on commercial products. Or rather, they are available, but the apps only let you scribble on their own "documents", not on the documents used by other apps. If I can't scribble on, say, a PDF or PNG or SVG music score, but only on the scribble app's blank pages, it isn't of much use to me when I'm working on a piece of music.

Re:I was at the announcement

[WilyCoder]

Hurray for anti-intellectualism!

Re:I was at the announcement

[DavidinAla]

I don't see what he's saying as anti-intellectualism. I read constantly and soaked up information like a sponge, but I didn't read my textbooks. They were dumbed down and fairly useless. The fact that they were written on such a low level made me feel that they were patronizing me. I learned almost all of what I wanted and needed to know elsewhere.

Re:I was at the announcement

[RandomPsychology]

Come on now... Everyone knows that nobody needs to remember stuff anymore! Anything and everything you could possibly need is just a Google search away! Those academic tests teachers require you to take? Just distractions...uh...right?

Re:I was at the announcement

[ColdWetDog]

Hurray for humor impairment! May I give you a free WHOOSH or two? I got plenty of my own.

Re:I was at the announcement

[larry bagina]

Try finding a smart-phone in the US with a calendar app that accepts non-English characters.

Everybody with an iPhone already found it.

Re:I was at the announcement

[fdrebin]

THAT was funny !

Clearly you who have mod points don't have a sense of humor as well.

At the moment I DO have mod points... but I, like many others, tend not to moderate AC posts (up, at least).
Yes, it was funny...

Re:I was at the announcement

[RandomJoe]

Actually, I've seen, and occasionally used, some prototype software that let users scribble random junk on a "document". Such things existed back in the 1990s. But they don't seem to be available on commercial products. Or rather, they are available, but the apps only let you scribble on their own "documents", not on the documents used by other apps. If I can't scribble on, say, a PDF or PNG or SVG music score, but only on the scribble app's blank pages, it isn't of much use to me when I'm working on a piece of music.

I have an app on my ipad that lets me do this with PDFs, called Note Taker HD. Pretty nice program, also has a "zoom" mode - a boxed area in the doc is show zoomed in at the bottom of the screen so you can make more detailed notes / drawings than is otherwise possible. Input is still a little clumsy thanks to the capacitive screen, you can't get very precise except by using the zoom mode. The annotated PDFs and any docs you create yourself can then be exported and emailed, put into ibooks as a PDF, or printed.

Still isn't what I *really* want - accurate and detailed free-form input in any app or document. Not to mention (in the case of my ipad) I'm carrying around a fragile $600 tablet instead of a $1 spiral notebook that still "works" fine after being dropped, cut, torn, gets wet, so on... I'm fine with it at home or in the office, but in the field at work that's more financial risk than it's worth. It isn't that inconvenient to scan in a page of the paper notebook when I get back to the office, or worst case take a picture of it and email in the field.

The one thing a tablet does do better than paper, I can carry an entire room full of documentation and manuals with ease. Of course my laptop can do the same thing, but it's handy to have the docs to the side on another device while working on the laptop.

Re:I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I've seen, and occasionally used, some prototype software that let users scribble random junk on a "document". Such things existed back in the 1990s. But they don't seem to be available on commercial products. Or rather, they are available, but the apps only let you scribble on their own "documents", not on the documents used by other apps. If I can't scribble on, say, a PDF or PNG or SVG music score, but only on the scribble app's blank pages, it isn't of much use to me when I'm working on a piece of music.

well there's http://www.circusponies.com/
they make an application for mac and an app for iPad which can import PDF and annotate it however you'd like. Since macs can print any document to PDF you've got your solution.

Re:I was at the announcement

[mr_lizard13]

Whilst I find writing things down is a better way of embedding knowledge, I don't see why note-taking and an iPad textbook have to be mutually exclusive. You could have all the benefits of a digital textbook (lighter, cheaper, always up to date and far easier to search) and still use your paper to take notes.

Re:I was at the announcement

[ilsaloving]

It may or may not have helped with learning.

It would DEFINITELY have helped my back, not having to schlep 50 lbs of textbooks too and from school.

Re:I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

I discovered, in the last set of exams I took, that if I read 4 or 5 textbooks on each subject, I didn't have to worry about the bits I didn't get in this book; 3 or more would it explain it some other way, and one of those explanations would normally go pzing! in my mind, and it would stick. I not only read my textbooks, I read OTHER textbooks as well!

Re:I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I'm sure he makes up for it by not reading the articles on Slashdot...

Re:I was at the announcement

[ceoyoyo]

I don't think your textbook being an iPad means you can't write notes. Write them in a notebook on paper. MOST students do this anyway because they want to sell their textbooks after the class is finished. Plus currently it's a big advantage to have your notes somewhat more portable than your textbooks.

I suspect one of the first updates for iBooks 2 will add note taking and other markup to the highlighting already supported, for those who want to scribble on their electronic textbooks directly.

Re:I was at the announcement

[shutdown -p now]

In fact, any modern smartphone will do - including Android, WP7 etc.

Re:I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it is not just you. There is a phenomenon that is occurring in japan right now where the younger generation has to resort to keystoking on their phones to remember how to write down ideograms. They don't write them enough to remember how to write them, but they can remember how to key them as they key them, if they were only reading them, they would not know how to write them. This also is very noticeable with Cherokee Language students who are trying to learn the Cherokee Syllabary (85 glyphs). Those who learn via flash card, have only partial recognition. Those who learn via dictation and actual *write* the glyphs out, learn much much faster, with much less effor, and with a significantly higher accuracy recognition rate on follow-up flash card tests.

Re:I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

GoodReader (iPad PDF reader) lets me scribble notes on PDFs. I assume it will let me scribble notes on any file it reads.

Re:I was at the announcement

[cayenne8]

But I think part of the writing notes and doodling imprinting things in my head better..have to do with my physically writing myself the notes..the extra thought it takes to move a pen, etc....

Of course, these days..it doesn't work quite as well..I can't read my own damned handwriting hardly anymore.

Re:I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

For example, I've seen a few attempts to provide musicians in bands and orchestras with computerized displays on their stands.

I would actually argue the opposite, I have a band that does this and wouldn't change back. However it is implemented correctly, unlike your example.

IPad for music, bluetooth foot pedal to change pages.
You can edit the pdf files with scribbles and text. It is a little clunky to start, but works. However it is far superior that I can manage and markup my songs at home on the computer and they are saved forever and displayed on the iPad just like at home. No worrying that notes are lost or not keep. It's also integrating with a band scheduling mechanism for distribution of songs and music sheets.

http://get.planningcenteronline.com/

Re:I was at the announcement

[jedidiah]

> It is a little clunky to start

You just lost everyone that wasn't an Apple evangelist.

Re:I was at the announcement

[jeremyp]

There's an iPad app called Notes Plus that lets you hand write notes (it works best with a stylus) and then will do hand writing recognition. I use it to take notes in all my meetings.

Re:I was at the announcement

[cayenne8]

Interesting...thanks for the info!!

Is there not a danger of the stylus scratching the screen or anything?

Re:I was at the announcement

[jc42]

Hmm ... My wife has an iPad, and she didn't know of any stylus that came with it. A bit of googling turned up a number of comments about them, mostly discouraging due to the low quality of the results (often described as "illegible"), and the short lifetime of the stylus tip. I found a few sites that had examples of the handwritten text they produced, and it all looked like first-grade attempts to write. I'll do a bit more digging, and see if I can find something more encouraging.

After you've seen the results of a few things like this, it's hard to decide to spend any more money testing out products based on glowing ad descriptions. I've spent too much money on things that didn't work at all like they said. The online descriptions I've found of using a stylus on an iPad are less than encouraging.

I've also seen problems like software than can print out music, but when I add Chinese text (or even worse, Arabic ;-) text to it, it's readable on the screen, but when I print it, the text comes out as "mojibake" Latin1 gibberish. I can get a PDF of music to print correctly; I can get a PDF page of Chinese text to print correctly; but a page of music with added Chinese text comes out garbled. Dunno why.

(I actually have a couple of PDFs of Chinese music with text that print correctly, but it turns out that the PDFs are just a JPEG or TIFF image with a PDF wrapper. They originated as photos of printed pages. Starting with a printed page of music, writing text on it with a pen, photographing that with a digital camera, and embedding the image inside a PDF isn't exactly what I'd classify as a way to scribble notes on the page via a computer. ;-)

Re:I was at the announcement

[jc42]

Actually, my wife has an iPhone, and likes it. But she has utterly failed to get it to input Arabic characters. She's convinced that it can't do that. So she just uses her laptop (Macbook) or iMac when she wants to use Arabic web sites or send email in Arabic. I suspect that iPhones are used in the Middle East, but when I went looking for information, I didn't find anything useful.

Of course, it's possible that we're just both too dumb to figure out what everyone else knows. But her Arabic-speaking friends that she's asked also didn't know, so there's a lot of dummies like us around.

I suspect it's because we live in the US, and the computer industry here does seem quite determined to block attempts to use anything other than English. Presumably they don't do that in non-English-speaking parts of the world, but we don't live there. ;-)

(And note that we still can't include Arabic or Chinese or any other non-Latin text in slashdot discussions.)

Re:I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

If a teacher needs to 'require' you to take notes that you need to take in order to learn the material, you don't belong in college.

Re:I was at the announcement

[gilgoomesh]

The iBook app lets you take notes and highlight sections right on the page. It's one of its key features as a "student reading app". You can also export the highlighted sections and notes to create separate study notes.

I don't know how well it would work, of course, but they're trying to capture the same workflow.

Re:I was at the announcement

[4phun]

While this all sounds good...I dunno if it would have helped me back in school, or even now (although I would try it).

I found back in HS and college...that with dead tree books...I often would do like I did on my notes in a separate note book....I'd scribble notes, and make doodles in the margins.

I found that by doing this...when taking tests, I could close my eyes, and mentally turn the pages of my notes and even my books and 'see' the pages in my head and find the answers.

Even today...while search and all is great with digital media, I find that to actually quickly remember and be able to recall importing things I'm reading...the act of my physically writing down quotes and notes, seems to chisel it in my brain for quick recall later. Just reading and searching on a screen doesn't seem to do it for me as well.

Maybe it is just me tho....

You can do the same with ePubs and other Apple TextBook content that allows Notes and Highlighting. Goto the front and click on your note list, export them as an email document. Also make screen shots as you go along an mark those up using Notability or GoodReader, then export to the iCloud for placing anywhere in your life. This works really well with Notability which allows you to sync notes while recording live lectures in a classroom.

The iPad is developing into quite a compelling product particularly for those who can get past the "I hate all things from Apple" syndrome. iTunes U in particular is an outstanding resource, look at that new iTunes U app on the iPad and then pick one or more items under Most Popular to see what I mean.

I really like the National Geographic course on Photography.

Re:I was at the announcement

[Anonymous Coward]

You will, of course, continue to be free to use a separate notebook alongside your tablet book reader.

Re:I was at the announcement

[larry bagina]

Settings -> General -> Keyboards -> Add new Keyboard. That adds a globe icon on the keyboard to switch input languages on the fly.

Arabic, hebrew, and all the other languages that you've mentioned are supported.

Full coverage with pictures

[bonch]

MacRumors has full live coverage of the event with pictures. I couldn't tell if I'm able to just read my damn books on my Mac, though. Hope I don't have to use iBooks Author to do it.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[tripleevenfall]

From TFA, it sounds like iBooks will be upgraded with textbook capabilities, and iBooks Author will allow you to publish yourself.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[bitterSTAR]

iBooks is still an iOS only application; with no Mac version.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't tell if I'm able to just read my damn books on my Mac, though. Hope I don't have to use iBooks Author to do it.

No, you can't not. Not even with iBooks Author.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[Anonymous Coward]

I forgot to add that I bought a huge box of iTissues to wipe my iDick and iBalls of all my iCum.

I'm just upset that, since October, I've had to practice necrophilia to satisfy my iLust.

I love you, Steve! If you were alive, I know you'd approve!

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[tripleevenfall]

Surely this will change - the Kindle app, for example, can handle textbooks and is available on the Mac desktop as well as on iOS.

I get that Apple feels (rightly) this will drive iPad sales, but it wouldn't make much sense to shut out potential customers for the textbooks who don't own an iPad.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[ColdWetDog]

Amazon wants to sell books (and some Kindles).

Apple wants to sell iPads (and some books).

Slightly different business model. But yes, I'm confused - one would think that you would be able to read the iBook on a MacBook, but they don't say anything about it. And if Apple doesn't specifically mention something, then I assume that you can't do (easily) do it.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[RenderSeven]

I dont think so. Everyone wants to sell content. I wouldnt say "even Apple" but rather "especially Apple". The walled garden exists mostly to drive content revenue to Apple-controlled outlets. All hardware that Apple produces and is planning (AppleTV anyone?) is tightly coupled to Apple-supplied content. Amazon is just more up front about it.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[UnknowingFool]

Wouldn't this actually free up more content? Right now to get something in iBooks you have to go through a publisher (RandomHouse, etc). With the new authoring program, the publisher can be skipped. In this way, it's like an app developer program. You can be a software company or an independent and publish apps. Of course no one is forcing you to use Apple; you can publish to other platforms (Kindle) if you want.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you can read them using iBooks. I haven't really done anything with Author yet, but it doesn't seem too bad. Question is how can you go from iBooks to non-itunes viewers? I'd love to be able to write education notes on iBooks Author and have my kids be able to read them on their Kindles.

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[shutdown -p now]

You can read them using iBooks, but there's no iBooks on any platform other than iOS (not even for OS X).

Re:Full coverage with pictures

[4phun]

You can read them using iBooks, but there's no iBooks on any platform other than iOS (not even for OS X).

Any student can rip off these books like they have always done when they went to a photocopier. Just copy each page via a screen shot and iCloud will then sync each page image to everything you have.

On the Mac just open them all at once in Preview and then select "Print to a PDF" for an instant PDF eBook.

There is so much you can do with Mac OS X Lion, iCloud, and the iPad you would think they were made for each other.

Hey wait....

Hype

[timeOday]

"Reinvent" is a big word. But the most significant thing I see here is that the tools - including and especially the content development tools - are free (as in beer). But the next question is, what iBook tools will be available on other platforms?

Re:Hype

[hedwards]

Apparently you missed the memo, whenever Apple enters a market they reinvent it. Doesn't matter if they're just refining what other people have already done.

In this case they're hardly the first to enter the etextbook market. B&N has had etextbooks for a while now. Granted they probably aren't quite as sophisticated, but it's not like Apple is the first to hop on this possible trend.

Re:Hype

[Microlith]

The caveat is that it doesn't matter who is first, or even who comes later. It's who gets the school districts and universities to mandate their platform as the source of all textbooks for all students. They get a guaranteed stream of tax dollars, and long term customers who will be familiar with their platform.

Personally, I would prefer DRM-free PDFs or interactive and cross platform HTML 5 "books" that didn't mandate a platform.

Re:Hype

[Altus]

The tools being available on other platforms doesn't interest me and you won't see Apple go out of their way to build authoring tools on other platforms. To expect them to do so, especially for a free tool, is just crazy. What you should be asking is if the format is open so that books authored on this platform can be read on others and people could make their own tools to create the books on other platforms if they wanted too.

Re:Hype

[BasilBrush]

Personally, I would prefer DRM-free PDFs or interactive and cross platform HTML 5 "books" that didn't mandate a platform.

PDFs are a terrible medium for ebooks as the format is fixed at publication time. The text can't reflow to fit different sized devices (or windows). If you like text bigger than the average person, and zoom in to get it, then you end up having to scroll back and forth to read lines.

HTML is OK for reflowing text on a page, but pages are set at publishing time, so you end up scrolling up and down a page.

Neither is a good format for ebooks.

Re:Hype

[bonch]

The ePub format is cross-platform HTML5. The .ibooks files that this tool exports are ePubs with a mime type of "application/x-ibooks+zip".

Re:Hype

[cayenne8]

But the next question is, what iBook tools will be available on other platforms?

Well, it might not matter, if the format is opened up free to use.....

If so, plenty of other developers for other platforms, could come up with their own book authoring tool...but you will be lagging behind (at least for awhile) Apple since they got it out to market first.

I think it is the format question that is likely the most important one here...will is be open? I thought I'd read it was a new version of epub (3?)....

Re:Hype

[bonch]

Reinventing a market isn't about who entered it first. Example: iPod.

In fact the term "reinvention" implies that the market already exists.

Re:Hype

[Tom]

Personally, I would prefer DRM-free PDFs or interactive and cross platform HTML 5 "books" that didn't mandate a platform.

The epub format (which iBooks uses, I'm not sure about iBooks2, we'll have to see) is HTML5.

And trust me, you don't want PDF for e-books. I have a couple PDF books alongside epub e-books on my iPad and gosh does PDF suck. It doesn't re-flow when I change from portrait to landscape, and it doesn't re-scale text, only zooms on a page level.

Re:Hype

[jo_ham]

And it is. iBooks uses ePub, which is HTML5.

It's a zip file with the files inside it.

Re:Hype

[DragonWriter]

The epub format (which iBooks uses, I'm not sure about iBooks2, we'll have to see) is HTML5.

Well, ePub 2, which most existing ePub readers (including iBooks) use has content that is XHTML1.1 (or Daisy Talking Book, but no one actually uses that.)

ePub 3, which iBooks 2 presumably uses, has content in the XHTML syntax of HTML5.

And trust me, you don't want PDF for e-books.

I have plenty of PDF ebooks. In general, they are better than the ePub ones for technical books (they'd be worse for novels), though the best ePubs (from PragProg) are good enough that it depends where I'm reading them (desktop, I prefer PDF, iPhone or Nook Color, I prefer ePub; at the size of the iPad, I'd probably be back to PDF.)

Part of the reason that PDF is generally better is that most ebooks are made by publishers that also do print and have lots of experience with it: and PDF, while you can add a lot to it that isn't in print, lets you apply everything you do in print seemlessly (and most print toolchains produce PDF with no additional effort.)

Re:Hype

[DragonWriter]

"Reinvent" is a big word. But the most significant thing I see here is that the tools - including and especially the content development tools - are free (as in beer). But the next question is, what iBook tools will be available on other platforms?

The tools Apple is selling here are Macs and iPads. iBooks and iBooks Creator are features of those tools.

Why would Apple make those features available for competing tools?

(Of course, there are already other toolchains for making ePub books, and other readers for viewing them. Apple also isn't going to focus on highlighting that that's what iBooks Creator and iBooks are.)

Re:Hype

[timeOday]

I disagree; an open spec is useless to people on other platforms unless there's a good implementation on that platform. (For example, samba is good enough to make SMB useful on non-Microsoft platforms, whereas Wine is not good enough to do the same for the Win32 API). Now, I didn't say anything about Apple providing iBook implementations for other platforms. But, for example, if iBook is based on an existing standard like HTML5 of PDF that is already well-supported on other platforms, that will be better than if iBook is wholly new. Furthermore, if the iBook spec is reasonably concise and if Apple resists the temptation to continually dribble new features into it, that would help tremendously.

Re:Hype

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh??...What other platforms? I thought the world belonged to iOS??

'get down, or lay down!' - Beanie Seigel, State Property

Re:Hype

[jmorris42]

Yup, the summary was 100% content free marketing buzz. And the Faithful ate it up and shouted "Yes! Screw me harder."

Touching a word in an ebook and having it look it up. Amazing! Totally insane that nobody else did that before the geniuses at Apple invented that. Oh, every other ebook platform has done that since forever? Oh well.

Apple books display larger images! Eh? Come again? Don't they ALL allow resizing on ePub content? OF course Apple has their own formats and I guess that just gained image resizing so it was just 'invented.' Somebody dumb enough to actually buy iProducts can perhaps put me some knowledge on here.

"and at the end of each chapter is a full review with questions and pictures" Wow, the innovation here is simply amazing. No textbook, printed or electronic EVER did that before.

"If you want the answers to the questions, all you need to do is tap the question to get instant feedback." Wow, no need to actually LEARN anything, Apple does everything for you. Just feed em some sweet sweet taxpayer dollars by the dumptruck load and every one of your students can be above average.

"Apple also launched the iBooks Author app, which lets anyone easily create any kind of textbook and publish it to the iBookstore, and the new iTunes U platform, which helps teachers and students communicate better, and even send each other materials and notes created with iBooks Author"

Wow, more innovation. If you buy into their closed hardware and software ecosystem they actually allow you to create and sell content in it... for their usual percentage. Who has ever thought if doing that you might ask? Truly this alone justifies the valuation of AAPL stock as being greater than all others.. including big oil, Boeing, etc.

Re:Hype

[hedwards]

No, the point is that the iPod didn't reinvent the market, they took what Creative had done, ripped it off and made it slightly smaller with a wheel on the front. That's not reinvention, that's stealing somebody elses work and trying to claim ownership of it. Which is why Apple got its ass handed to it when they got sued.

Re:Hype

[hedwards]

PDFs suck when it comes to ebooks. Now the iPad may handle it better than the other options, but PDFs do not scale well and they are not intended to. They're intended for printing and exchanging in away that's essentially identical no matter what device you're using. Which is a very serious problem as it makes it really tough to use on an ebook reader.

Re:Hype

[coinreturn]

No, the point is that the iPod didn't reinvent the market, they took what Creative had done, ripped it off and made it slightly smaller with a wheel on the front. That's not reinvention, that's stealing somebody elses work and trying to claim ownership of it. Which is why Apple got its ass handed to it when they got sued.

Put down your anti-Apple crack pipe. The iPod reinvented the market because it came with iTunes - an integrated environment for content. Also, if Apple had "its ass handed to it when the got sued" why are they still crushing everyone in sales?

Re:Hype

[Anonymous Coward]

And we all know that Diebold voting machines are the clear winner because they have done that huh?

Getting a mass market and groups on board so you can skim the cream is in no way realted to having the best product or the best deal. It means you played the politicial and marketting part of the game better then the other guys.

Re:Hype

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPod reinvented the market because it came with iTunes - an integrated environment for content.

Lol, wut? iTunes was just another crappy music manager. You're thinking of the iTunes Music Store, which came years after the iPod.

The only "innovation" Apple managed with the iPod was in marketing.

Re:Hype

[Pope]

The only "innovation" Apple managed with the iPod was in marketing.

You mean they actually bothered to do some.

Re:Hype

[bcrowell]

>>Personally, I would prefer DRM-free PDFs or interactive and cross platform HTML 5 "books" that didn't mandate a platform.

>The ePub format is cross-platform HTML5. The .ibooks files that this tool exports are ePubs with a mime type of "application/x-ibooks+zip".

This link says:

Books are not technically in the EPUB format, but they borrow from it (likely EPUB 3). Certain interactive elements of the books require the files to be done in the slightly different iBooks format, Apple says.

This leaves the situation very unclear.

I assume there is DRM. DRM is not part of the epub spec, but can be added on top. So the first question on my mind would be whether a book in this format bought from Apple will be DRM-unlockable on non-Apple readers.

The next issue is whether or not these added "interactive elements" are proprietary, and whether they break compatibility with readers that implement the straight epub 3 standard.

And finally, there is the question of how they're going to handle epub 3 features that are not yet implemented in any readers, including Apple's. TFA says that the initial lineup of books, which are supposed to be available already today, will include math and physics textbooks. Epub 3 has mathml, but no reader, including any of Apple's, implements this yet. So will Apple push out a software update to iPads that will add mathml support? It would be interesting if a slashdotter who owns an iPad could buy one of these books and report back on how the math is done and whether it renders properly on an iPad.

What is potentially a little sinister here is that Apple, which formerly had hitched its wagon to the open epub standard, could now be heading down the proprietary road taken by amazon. Amazon has been trying to negotiate exclusive deals with publishers to sell e-books; obviously their dream is to achieve lock-in, so that their customers become their captives. Barnes and Noble is responding by refusing to sell paper books by publishers, such as DC Comics, who won't let them sell the electronic version. If apple starts to emulate their behavior, then we're going to have a really nasty situation, where you'd have to own one handheld reader in order to read Harry Potter, and a different company's reader for Sue Grafton.

Re:Hype

[Anonymous Coward]

Inertia, during that time they were able to parlay their monopoly in the digital music sales and MP3 player markets into something that could coast by on inertia. The iPod was never the best player on the market. At no point did they do anything particularly special other than marketing.

Re:Hype

[Darinbob]

Apple isn't doing this out of altruism, there's big money to be made in this field and a lot of people are interested in it for the profit. Otherwise you'd see more people getting involved in open source textbooks.

Re:Hype

[Darinbob]

PDFs are great when the come indexed and with a table of contents, etc. Good for manuals and stuff like that. I don't use ebooks but do they have similar features?

Re:Hype

[DragonWriter]

PDFs suck when it comes to ebooks.

The depends on what you want out of "ebooks". PDFs work very well for electronic books for what I want out of them.

Now the iPad may handle it better than the other options

It might, but nothing I said in GP indicated that I thought it did, just that the iPad was reaching into the size range where the advantages of PDFs in practice outweighed those of ePub in my experience.

but PDFs do not scale well and they are not intended to.

While scaling is a useful feature in ebooks, its not something I see as an essential feature. For content that is pure linear text, like novels, scaling may outweigh other factors particularly when using a very small reader device (like a smartphone), but IME that's about the only case where scaling is the dominant consideration.

They're intended for printing and exchanging in away that's essentially identical no matter what device you're using.

Consistent presentation across devices is a useful feature since presentation is often the way it is for a reason, particularly when the content isn't pure linear text. This is one of the reasons that PDFs are often, IMO and IME, a superior ebook format for content that isn't limited to simple linear text.

Which is a very serious problem as it makes it really tough to use on an ebook reader.

I regularly read PDFs designed for letter-size print on a variety of devices ranging from an iPhone to a Nook Color to a netbook to a desktop with a 23" widescreen 1080p monitor. I don't find it "really tough" to use PDF on any of those devices.

Re:Hype

[Anonymous Coward]

What a hilarious thing to postulate, that worthless software like iTunes reinveted the portable MP3 player market, hahaha! put down your pro-apple bag of jenkem and go buy a used rio.

Re:Hype

[UnknownSoldier]

Methinks it behooves you to check your history since you seem ignorant of it ...

1998 March, SaeHan Information Systems ""MPMan" - the first digital MP3 player
1998 September, Diamond "Rio PMP300"
2000 Creative "NOMAD Jukebox"
2001 October, Apple "iPod" /sarcasm Looks like Creative "ripped off" 2 other companies !

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_media_player
* http://www.randomhistory.com/2008/08/04_ipod.html
* http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/iPod_1_Apple_Continues_MP3_Player_Dominance_In_November/

Re:Hype

[Americano]

iBooks works just fine with DRM-free ePub & PDF documents purchased elsewhere, and coexists quite nicely with them - I can't speak for other formats, but my iPad currently has half a dozen PDFs, a few books purchased from the iBook store, and a couple .epubs that I've downloaded from the web - among them the Pro Git epub available here.

Hard to say whether or not the iBooks Authoring tool will allow you to publish epubs for non-Apple platforms - it publishes in an epub format, but some reports are saying that there appear to be proprietary extensions to the epub3 format, which could pose a problem for distribution to non-iBooks clients.

My *guess* is that epubs created on other platforms will work just fine in iBooks provided there's no DRM on the file to prevent it, and they're not abusing the standards. Jury's still out on whether or not epubs created in the iBooks Authoring tool will be work properly on other platforms, though I suspect that that's the (eventual) goal. Remember, Apple wants to sell you Macs to create iBooks on, as well as iPads to read them on. If they have the "premiere" authoring tool available, it's a selling point.

Re:Hype

[Tom]

Uh yes, they do. In fact, it's pretty much a requirement. (I think the iBookstore doesn't even accept submissions without a table of contents).

Re:Hype

[mattack2]

I think "pretty much" is an overstatement.

I've seen plenty of reviews of Kindle books that complain that there isn't a table of contents. Admittedly, many of those are for free eBooks (so I give them more slack). At least some are for pay books. I'll post a followup to my message if I can find a good example, but I remember reading about one recently for a relatively recently released book that didn't have a table of contents either. (That is, not ALL of the issues are with are free or buck-or-two books.)

Re:Hype

[CODiNE]

If you like text bigger than the average person, and zoom in to get it, then you end up having to scroll back and forth to read lines.

That sounds pretty big, making it what... a 432 point font? That is assuming 6 foot tall would be bigger than the average person. Lots of scrolling indeed!

Re:Hype

[exomondo]

And it is. iBooks uses ePub, which is HTML5.

"Books are not technically in the EPUB format, but they borrow from it (likely EPUB 3). Certain interactive elements of the books require the files to be done in the slightly different iBooks format", Apple says.
Techcrunch coverage

Re:Hype

[jc42]

but PDFs do not scale well and they are not intended to.

While scaling is a useful feature in ebooks, its not something I see as an essential feature.

In other words, you're one of the many people with contempt for the visually impaired, as well as contempt for those that are using portable display gadgets that fit in a pocket or purse.

Your attitude is why PDF is a crappy format for portable electronic devices. And correcting for such contemptuous attitudes was the primary reason that HTML was invented. If the ePub, iBooks, and other related formats truly include HTML, especially HTML5, then they are an approach that can actually make life better for people with poor eyes or small screens.

Actually, my eyes are pretty good, and people are always complaining about the tiny fonts that I use to maximize what I can see on my (large ;-) screen. But I have friends who are visually impaired or blind, and I have a lot of sympathy for them. I'd like to give them better access to the world's knowledge. Arguing against PS and PDF, and in favor of all the SGML-derived formats, is part of how we can improve life for those less fortunate than us with good eyes. Anyone else reading this is encouraged to do what you can to push our recalcitrant computer industry in the right direction. We have the technology and we know how to do it right. We just need to fight against people like the above who want to continue making life difficult for those with eyes (or screens) that aren't as good as ours.

Re:Hype

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure about other formats for the software but this is a back door move to lock in most books published to iTunes. There is no standard user agreement but there is one that covers exported content and it's exclusive to iTunes. You can use their free tool but you can only sell it through iTunes and it only exports for the iPad so they are also trying to pump iPads. I think they are skating dangerously close to monopoly with this one so I'd expect lawsuits from every other eBook seller. They are being sneaky about the lock in. They want you to finish the book before you have any chance of knowing it's locked in. The pros are still stuck with InDesign so I hope there's a massive upgrade on the way. The demo videos only addressed text flow so if that's all that is in the update they are two years behind Apple.

Re:Hype

[cyn1c77]

Personally, I would prefer DRM-free PDFs or interactive and cross platform HTML 5 "books" that didn't mandate a platform.

The epub format (which iBooks uses, I'm not sure about iBooks2, we'll have to see) is HTML5.

And trust me, you don't want PDF for e-books. I have a couple PDF books alongside epub e-books on my iPad and gosh does PDF suck. It doesn't re-flow when I change from portrait to landscape, and it doesn't re-scale text, only zooms on a page level.

Is re-flowing really a requirement?

The text in paper books doesn't re-flow either AND you can't even scale it up by tapping it. Yet it has been acceptable technology for a really really long time because it is an imperfect, yet robust system.

You people aren't going to be happy until they can just implant the information directly into your brains!

Re:Hype

[celtic_hackr]

According to the EULA, you are not allowed to publish them to any other platform. I think the way it is worded you couldn't even publish it to print format. It's a real nifty lock-in device. Resistance is futile.

Re:Hype

[Tom]

plenty of reviews of Kindle books

Did you even read what I wrote?

Kindle == Amazon
iBookstore == Apple

Amazon != Apple

Kindle != iBookstore

Really, I'm talking about how PHP does, in fact, support classes and an OO model - and you reply with "I've read lots about C and many articles complain that it's not an OO language". Yeah, well technically you are right, but you're totally not responding to what I was saying, dude.

Re:Hype

[4phun]

PDFs are great when the come indexed and with a table of contents, etc. Good for manuals and stuff like that. I don't use ebooks but do they have similar features?

The ePub Reader, if any good, will automatically create a table of contents based on how the ePub was created. I use styles HEADING 1 and HEADING 2 along with section breaks to format my ePubs.

I create ePub 3 and only iBooks seems to be able to handle it. I do not submit anything to Apple or Amazon it is for closed distribution.

I can with OS X Lion Services just highlight a bunch of RTF files, right click and create an instant ePub that will have a directory, title, and images, including a cover image. Each RTF will appear in the index as a separate section with an image for that section.

Apple has always been making ePubs easy and practical to use.

Those who have Android choose Moon Reader or similar ePub reader. Android still doesn't do ePub 3 for some reason but I suspect that will change soon.

For Kindles I just run the ePub through iCalibre and convert to MOIB. These MOIB files look just as nice in the iPad Kindle Reader as the ePubs in iBooks. Internal and external hyperlinks even work in MOIB.
You can do a four finger swipe back and forth to compare the two, iBooks and Kindle.

Re:Hype

[4phun]

We just need to fight against people like the above who want to continue making life difficult for those with eyes (or screens) that aren't as good as ours.

I use both PDF and ePub plus RTFD and WebArchive on the iPad. The bottom line is in the Reader that handles those digital documents. PDF is nice and the iPad iOS does PDF far better than other devices. I like the automatic zoom to column with one tap for multicolumn PDFs that are hard to read.

ePubs not only bring font adjustments that are so great I suspect you could read the text in the next county but they also allow you to have any selected text or notes read aloud with one tap and the SPEAK option.

I have had passengers activate that while I am driving so we both can hear the text from a page which was part of our discussion. This was especially helpful with the ones who have a heavy foreign accent that is hard enough to comprehend even when they are not trying to read aloud English.

BTW iPad speak works with all of the above formats except PDF.

Re:Hype

[jo_ham]

Yes, and I expect the changes will be rolled into the format if Apple's venture is successful.

The key thing is that while it's not a literal ePub file (which was clear from the all the extra things the books can do), they used a base that enabled easier interoperation. They could have started with a totally alien format, but chose not to.

Re:Hype

[DragonWriter]

In other words, you're one of the many people with contempt for the visually impairedas well as contempt for those that are using portable display gadgets that fit in a pocket or purse.

No. Look, what features are essential to me as a user have nothing to do with how much I respect other people.

Second, my iPhone fits in a pocket or purse. Its one of the things I use, and I discussed it in the post your responding to. Its a factor in my preferences.

Your attitude is why PDF is a crappy format for portable electronic devices.

Its crappy for some people with certain preferences, its not crappy for other people. I read PDFs formatted for letter-sized pages on the iPhone all the time with no problem, and for certain types of content its better than any ePub's I've seen.

And correcting for such contemptuous attitudes was the primary reason that HTML was invented.

First, I don't have a contemptuous attitude, that's something you've invented. Second, that has little to do with why HTML was invented. (Though certainly scalability is -- as I acknowledge repeatedly in the post you are responding to -- a useful feature of HTML-based eBook format that in some circumstances is compelling.)

If the ePub, iBooks, and other related formats truly include HTML, especially HTML5, then they are an approach that can actually make life better for people with poor eyes or small screens.

ePub is XHTML1.1 based, ePub 3 is XHTML5-based.

Arguing against PS and PDF, and in favor of all the SGML-derived formats, is part of how we can improve life for those less fortunate than us with good eyes.

No, it isn't.

Improving HTML-based formats to the point where they are competitive with PDF in the areas of PDFs strengths, and therefore so that they can compete in the marketplace effectively with them, is how we can do that.

And the first step of that is recognizing where PDF is still ahead.

Re:Hype

[Americano]

Not quite; The EULA claims you're not allowed to *sell them* except through Apple. You can publish them and distribute them by any means you wish if you do so for free.

The terms are still unsavory, but there is a meaningful difference between "you can't publish to any other platform," and "you can only publish to other platforms if your content is distributed free of charge."

Re:Hype

[mattack2]

Did you even read what I wrote?

Yes, I did.

The message you were replying to said PDFs have tables of contents, and asked if "ebooks" have similar features.

You said:

Uh yes, they do. In fact, it's pretty much a requirement. (I think the iBookstore doesn't even accept submissions without a table of contents).

Especially since it was a parenthetical comment, I read that as you saying that ebooks IN GENERAL pretty much have a requirement of tables of contents, and that you think Apple's bookstore makes it a requirement.

Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant, but it was in response to a general question, not necessarily a specific Apple's books. Yes, the thread itself is about Apple's announcement, but many other posts also talk about Kindle/Amazon/other ebooks.

Re:Hype

[Tom]

Ok, my bad. It was a mutual misunderstanding.

My comment goes for most other bookstores (when I submitted my ebook recently, there was an explicit notice about TOCs regarding the iBookstore, but also the Nook Store, etc.), but it may well be that there are some that don't check it, or that the others didn't do it in the early times.

So, to answer the question:

Yes, all ebook-formats that I know about support a TOC.
The major stores insist on your ebook having one.

Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

No Wireless. Less Space Than A Nomad. Lame.

Re:Lame

[FranktehReaver]

A Sega Nomad?! :P

Sega Genesis in your hand?! Say What?!

Re:Lame

[Tetsujin]

Keep it up! There's no way this is ever getting old!

Steve Facepalm

[Anonymous Coward]

If steve jobs was alive today, he would be busy doing a facepalm.

Open format?

[gmuslera]

If is closed, propietary format then no matter if the app to use them in a specific hardware device is free. Those books (or us) don't have a future.

Re:Open format?

[nahdude812]

It's not like we need another freaking proprietary book format. Maybe their new format has support for things existing formats don't, but books created in this software should be exportable to other open book formats such as ePub. They're not, this is just Apple trying to control a new market and claim a 43% markup on all digital book sales.

They're a bit late to this game, Amazon is pretty entrenched with Kindles already in most people's hands, and at prices which are far more approachable than iPads. It takes a lot of FREE (beer) books to make up the purchase cost of an iPad, and most books aren't free [beer].

Re:Open format?

[bonch]

It's ePub, the standard format for e-books. In fact, I believe ePub 3 is a subset of HTML5. You can author JavaScript and HTML5 directly for interactivity.

Re:Open format?

[BasilBrush]

iOS Apps are a closed format. Doesn't seem to have held them back.

Re:Open format?

[Randle_Revar]

Yeah, this needs to be non-drm, and an open format. Probably epub 3

Re:Open format?

[EponymousCustard]

epub is open but the DRM used in them may not be.

Re:Open format?

[BasilBrush]

No so fast. I've downloaded iBooks Author, and none of the various save, export or publish commands seems to give an ePub file. I don't know enough about ebook formats to investigate further, so I'll leave it to others to do that.

iBooks were epub format I think, and do iBooks 2 will certainly still support that. But it MIGHT BE a proprietary format for text books.

Re:Open format?

[nahdude812]

I don't see any mention of that on Apple's site that it's ePub. Maybe I missed it, can you give me a link that confirms this?

From what others have been saying, you can export to only one of 3 formats, their proprietary format, PDF (non-interactive, fixed page format, basically not an ebook format at all), and plain text.

Re:Open format?

[bonch]

.ibook is an ePub file with a custom MIME type.

Re:Open format?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most textbooks in mathematics are in the $100-$200 or more range. If these were sold $50, it wouldn't take too many to make up the cost of an ipad.

Re:Open format?

[Anonymous Coward]

it's an epub with a mime type of "application/x-ibooks+zip". try dragging one onto BBEdit, you can see the innards

Re:Open format?

[iluvcapra]

iBooks are ePubs but it's hard to see how these demonstrated books aren't supersets of ePub. I'm not sure ePub supports multiple-choice quizzes, Keynote animations or embedding OS X dashboard widgets (they are just javascript, but the dependencies might not align).

Re:Open format?

[Tom]

iBooks 1 uses epub (I just published a book on it, so I know). I've not yet looked at what this new format is, but I've be surprised if it weren't epub as well.

They're a bit late to this game, Amazon is pretty entrenched with Kindles already in most people's hands,

Why does everyone with no clue whine on this article that it's about the iPad? Why do you think this is about the iPad? What makes you think that?

Apple has consistently won markets by thinking bigger than that. They always create nice integrated products, such as the iPod and iTunes - but they have always looked beyond the immediate. The iTunes music store is huge in itself, with or without iPod sales.

Sure, Apple will move more iPads if this gets big. But if the become a major publisher of textbooks, they gain something far beyond more iPad sales - they profit from the textbooks themselves, even if the students use a Kindle to read them.

Re:Open format?

[BasilBrush]

Yes you're right. I was seeing a binary file, and I'd forgotten that epub is zipped up. I unzipped it, and the contents are epub contents.

Re:Open format?

[jo_ham]

What are you smoking? The iBooks format *already is ePub* - why would you need to "export" to it?

Re:Open format?

[jo_ham]

Good job they decided to use ePub then, isn't it?

Re:Open format?

[BasilBrush]

The reason you can't export to epub is that the default format is epub. Although Apple uses .iBooks as an extension rather than .epub.

Re:Open format?

[beelsebob]

It's ePub 3 plus extensions.

Re:Open format?

[DragonWriter]

I don't see any mention of that on Apple's site that it's ePub. Maybe I missed it, can you give me a link that confirms this?

iBooks has always been ePub 2 with proprietary extensions. Virtually everything Apple's proprietary extensions do ePub 3 does, and much of the pre-press about the recent announcement included speculation that it would include adoption of ePub 3, though I can't find anything which indicates whether it actually did or whether they are still using ePub 2 plus custom extensions and, for DRM-protected works, Apple-specific DRM.

Even if they are using the standard, there is no reason for them to advertise it, since "you can use any ePub toolchain to make content for iBooks" doesn't help them sell Macs with the lure of iBooks Creator, and "you can use any ePub reader to read non-DRMed iBooks" doesn't help them sell iPads/iPods/iPhones with iBooks as a selling point.

Re:Open format?

[BasilBrush]

The free iBooks Author creates raw .epub files, except they have the extension .ibooks. You could publish the epub files created with this free app anywhere you like.

I wouldn't be surprised if they add DRM when they are sold through iTunes Store though.

Re:Open format?

[nahdude812]

It's about iPad because only iPad and iPhone can read the ibook format.

I downloaded iBooks Author and published a book to experiment with. I chose one of their templates, picking the one which seemed to have the fewest by way of zany formatting or artwork.

Although the file produced has a ".ibooks" extension, it looks like under the hood this is ePub at the heart, but with a pile of proprietary extensions on top. I renamed my published file to have an .epub extension, and loaded it up in my ebook reader. The text is readable, but the formatting is all gone. There are image assets floating around occupying space where text should be, but they were background images in the ibooks version, while here they're interfering with text flow. I'm guessing these images are responsible for the 1mb file size for a 3 page book too.

So the format may be ePub, and although the content isn't completely locked away, I might as well have published a .txt file, at least then it wouldn't be littered with garbage images. If this is an attempt to comply with existing book readers (in the spirit of the open format), it's at best a token attempt. This looks like it would be a great editor, if it was useful outside of the Apple iMpire.

Re:Open format?

[nahdude812]

From the terms of use:

(ii) if your Work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service), you may only distribute the Work through Apple and such distribution is subject to the following limitations and conditions: (a) you will be required to enter into a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary) before any commercial distribution of your Work may take place; and (b) Apple may determine for any reason and in its sole discretion not to select your Work for distribution.

So even though it's a (horribly broken) form of ePub, it doesn't matter, you're not allowed to sell it to anyone without an iDevice, only if Apple chooses to let you, and you get to pay Apple for this privilege privilege.

No. Thanks.

Re:Open format?

[bonch]

It's not like we need another freaking proprietary book format. Maybe their new format has support for things existing formats don't, but books created in this software should be exportable to other open book formats such as ePub. They're not, this is just Apple trying to control a new market and claim a 43% markup on all digital book sales.

Try unzipping an .ibook file and tell us what you see.

Re:Open format?

[bonch]

Although the file produced has a ".ibooks" extension, it looks like under the hood this is ePub at the heart, but with a pile of proprietary extensions on top. I renamed my published file to have an .epub extension, and loaded it up in my ebook reader. The text is readable, but the formatting is all gone.

Does you the reader you try support ePub 3? Apple's tool is likely exporting ePub 3, basically just a form of HTML5.

Re:Open format?

[killfixx]

+1 Informative!! I wish I had mod-points. It may be ePub, but perverted to keep it locked to Apple.

Re:Open format?

[Anonymous Coward]

So there is no difference between them huh? So why a new spec and a new extention, just for the hell of it?

Re:Open format?

[mr_lizard13]

So never mind about all the benefits something can bring, unless it's 'open' it's useless and has no future?

I understand the benefits of open, but I don't understand the obsession some people have with it. Something can be closed, proprietary and locked-down and still be thoughtfully crafted, built to a high standard, be of excellent benefit to the customer and serve its purpose well.

I see no 'open' projects out there with the ecosystem and vision to deploy something as elegant as what Apple showed today, including the cross-device support and authoring tools. Teachers will be able to create their own content with this without spending years trying to get published. The best part is the content can be updated for years to come so it need never expire. Compare this to extremely expensive paper textbooks that have a useful life of 5 years.

Re:Open format?

[jo_ham]

Because it does contain ways to handle extra data - like videos and animations and so on, that's why the iBooks format exists. It's ePub inside a container.

Sort of like how a .mov container can contain an H.264 (or other) video with subtitles in multiple languages etc.

So of course there is a difference. What it means is that it's not difficult to make a converter, or to support the format.

Re:Open format?

[dtaciuch]

But you can distrubute it freely, without DRM, outside of the iBooks store, as long as you don't charge for it.

Re:Open format?

[nahdude812]

I see ePub with a pile of proprietary extensions; it's barely an ePub at all since most of the formatting gets lost to any reader but Apple's. Almost might as well have been a .txt file, except much, much bigger.

Re:Open format?

[Tom]

Whoever modded parent up: Hand in your geek card, take Reading Comprehension 101 and stop moderating.

There is nothing in there that limits you to "iDevices". What it says is that this is an exclusive deal, you can't sell it here and elsewhere simultaneously.

Are iBooks available for "non-iDevices"? As they will be sold via the iTunes store, I don't see anything stopping you from buying and using one on your windows PC. And nothing in that quoted excerpt indicates any usage restrictions.

Re:Open format?

[nahdude812]

It claims support for it, and it does not have problems with the ePub3 test books from http://azardi.infogridpacific.com/html/resources.html . I've looked in the new files. They're full of stuff like <object type="application/x-ibooks+shape" id="textShape-2" data-original-id="textShape-90"> and css with -ibook- prefixes.

Seriously, you've replied to me in several spots aggressively defending Apple's lock-in. Have YOU tried this in different readers? Do YOU know of a non-Apple reader which can display Apple's new book format cleanly? Maybe Apple is just really ahead of the curve in terms of formatting while maintaining compliance with the standard. But the proprietary extensions loaded in these books suggest otherwise. It's all very Microsoftish, embrace and extend.

It's all moot anyway, Apple's TOS says you can't sell a book created for iBooks through anyone but them, and only if they choose to let you (i.e. they approve of your content), and it can't cost $15 or more (that last one I actually think is not too shabby for the vast majority of cases). They can't lock you to sell only on their platform by technical means like they do with iOS apps (where you have to pretty much independently develop multiple times if you want to target multiple platforms), so they'll just produce lock-in via a licensing channel.

At least the content is accessible, I should be grateful that it's not completely locked away. Future historians will be able to access the contents of these files when Apple's licensing servers have died. Except when they're DRM encrypted, then the future is SOL.

Re:Open format?

[Tom]

It's about iPad because only iPad and iPhone can read the ibook format.

If 5% of the people whining about "closed format" (even though it's just epub with some extensions) or "evil DRM" (even though nothing in the format mandates DRM) or "bwah, the world is evil to me" had done what geeks do - go and reverse-engineer it, then write your own reader - we would have one by morning.

Re:Open format?

[danbob999]

So basically it's as "open" as Facetime (which is supposed to be using open standards).

Re:Open format?

[jedidiah]

> So never mind about all the benefits something can bring, unless it's 'open' it's useless and has no future?

Pretty much. Any time you try to advocate a new solution to a potentially already solved problem, you are limiting what people can do with it and who can participate.

Although I can't help thinking that this is something that will eventually be declared "too geeky" once the fashionistas have moved on to the next flavor of the month.

The Apple mindset really isn't for creative people. That's just marketing that falls away as soon as someone asks for something interesting.

Re:Open format?

[nahdude812]

Sorry, "Well, if you're a REAL geek, you'd just reverse engineer the closed format" is a terrible way to excuse proprietary formats. Might as well not HAVE open formats if that's the bar for what's acceptable in the realm of openness.

Re:Open format?

[gmuslera]

Open means future, or at least a potential of it. What if the only available browser for the web were Mosaic on Windows or some Unix, and no other would be able to properly render html? Ok, was ascii text after all, maybe some would be able to display the text of the web pages, but not the graphics that are with them. You would miss the wealth of alternate devices you have today to access the web, javascript, flash (yes, some bad consequences need to have), html5, all the players that are around improving it in a lot (some successful and some not so much) of ways, instead of a single company dictating how they think it should go. And, of course, you will miss the web as is it today.

Re:Open format?

[mr_lizard13]

And are textbooks that become outdated after a few years every time the curriculum changes really an already solved problem then?

Re:Open format?

[mr_lizard13]

I'm not saying I don't see the benefits of open. What I can't understand is the mindset of the anti-closed brigade who refuse to believe that anything proprietory can be good. There's plenty of room for both.

Slating something *just because* it's not open is ridiculous, especially when there's a distinct lack of open competition in the subject area being discussed (in this case, digital textbooks, content authoring and delivery).

Re:Open format?

[mattack2]

Have you contacted Apple, trying to get details for Facetime, because you want to write software to interact with it on other platforms???

Re:Open format?

[rsborg]

They're a bit late to this game, Amazon is pretty entrenched with Kindles already in most people's hands, and at prices which are far more approachable than iPads. It takes a lot of FREE (beer) books to make up the purchase cost of an iPad, and most books aren't free [beer].

You do realize that Amazon never really reveals how many Kindles it has sold... the closest is a total number (including the Fire) for 2011 Q4 - per week. I'd be willing to bet that Apple's iOS installed base is at least 5x the size of Amazon's Kindle base. Dem's a lot of Apples.

Re:Open format?

[nahdude812]

Phones make a terrible book device. Bad enough that the headline on Apple's site is "The Textbook. Reinvented for iPad," not iOS. Not a single iPhone even makes an appearance on either the Textbook page or the iBooks Author page. There are plenty of iPads though.

How many iPads are out there compared to Kindles? I'd be VERY surprised if there are more $500 devices out there than $80 devices. It takes a lot more book discounts to make up for a $500 price tag than an $80 price tag too.

Re:Open format?

[gmuslera]

We aren't talking about a fancy way to see haiku. We are talking about education. Would be great that education books work in educational devices, like i.e. the XO or other inexpensive ones, but this will only meant to be for Apple hardware. And that wouldnt be so bad per se, but we are talking about Apple here and odds are pretty high that they put a bunch of strategic patents around this, what could be abused forbidding any kind of educational ebook with more interactivity than turning pages.

Re:Open format?

[mr_lizard13]

It's not Apple's fault that they appear to be the only company taking education seriously enough to upend the current broken structure of authoring and delivering resources. I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but I don't see any of the other big technology organisations, open or closed, doing much about this. Perhaps if they took education as seriously they wouldn't have waited for Apple to come and do something in this arena first. Not wishing to turn this into the traditional Apple vs Microsoft debate, but arguably Microsoft are Apple's biggest rival in this space and all they seem to be doing for schools is offering discounts on Windows and Office. Revolutionary indeed.

I do agree with your point around patents though - this is where Apple is at its worst, and I'd argue the current patent system encourages the kind of behaviour that stifles innovation. To my mind the blame lies with the patent office every time one of these ridiculous ideas becomes patented.

E-textbooks have not gained traction to date so this is fairly new territory. If other technology firms were as serious about this subject then they would have all held education events and showcased their idea of what the future of education looks like, including a vision for improving the publishing experience. The current paper-based method is wildly expensive for both authors and schools, becomes obsolete every few years and is a pretty crap deal for educators and students. Instead of picking holes in Apple's strategy, I'd be asking why is only a single company taking an interest in improving this experience?

Re:Open format?

[danbob999]

Given that there are still no 3rd party facetime-compatible applications I take it for granted that it would be a loss of time.

Re:Open format?

[mattack2]

Maybe everybody else is being defeatist like you, and haven't even asked for details. There's still no proof that other companies can't make Facetime-compatible apps.

Re:Open format?

[danbob999]

If Apple wanted Facetime to be an open standard they would publish the details somewhere on their web site. Not wait until someone ask for them.
Also Facetime requires a certificate that is controlled by Apple.

Innovation.

[Anonymous Coward]

If only we already had tools and technologies for publishing information electronically. And there is no way those things would be able to add interactivity! Can you imagine?

Re:Innovation.

[Thud457]

Gotta be able to support professors releasing a new, incompatible edition every year so the cattle^W students have to pony up $$$$$ again.
Probably already has re-sale prevention baked in, so we're good on that account.
Apple just wants to snarf up the low hanging fruit by cutting out the publisher. They can be the good guy, cutting prices in half, and still make many $$$$$$.

Re:Innovation.

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you didn't quite follow the stuff. The point is that books can be added to and updated and you can get an update. Hence I think this is more of a point that you don't have to fork over additional dough for added 1% content like you're doing right now... We'll have to see how that pans out over time however...

Re:Innovation.

[Alan Shutko]

The innovation is packaging those technologies and making it easy for publishers to use them.

The new ibooks format looks like a ZIP container containing xhtml, images (including jpeg, png and svg), javascript based widgets (created with Dashcode, similar to OS X widgets). I see h.264 movies in there as well. I haven't found the 3d stuff (don't know if there's any 3d in this one). And it's all in a nice package that you can download once and toss on a device.

Unlike Sigil, iBooks Author can embed much more multimedia and appears to make it much easier to build documents. Building the capabilities to do flashcards and interactive review sections into the client app so that lots of books can take advantage of it. Before now, publishers could do this sort of thing in a browser over the internet, or they could write their own mobile app that displayed the content, but they had to build a lot of that infrastructure themselves.

Apple's building on our current technologies and has actually gotten publishers to start using them. I think that's pretty cool.

Re:Innovation.

[BasilBrush]

Text book updates are free, much as iOS App updates are.

And they are working WITH the publishers, not excluding them. Much as they worked with the record labels rather than trying to exclude them.

Re:Innovation.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's building on our current technologies and has actually gotten publishers to start using them. I think that's pretty cool.

Far cooler if their tool generated output that would allow these "books" to be packed that can be views on any HTML5 supporting device, not just trying to engineer another proprietary format using existing standard using the MS model of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish,.

Re:Innovation.

[chispito]

And they are working WITH the publishers, not excluding them. Much as they worked with the record labels rather than trying to exclude them.

So what you mean is that we will be stuck with crappy DRM until serious competition forces them to change?

Re:Innovation.

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope those publishers read the fine print and know they are not available to publish their content anywhere else because once your content go Apple, you can't publish anywhere else. I, for one, was thinking in getting a Macbook or something as to publish my work in iBooks, but after this I'll stick with Amazon et all. Certainly hurts because you know the iDemographic is composed of hordes of mindless people that tap BUY and ask later, but well, It will certainly help me save since I don't have to dumbdown and make my work "hyp". Walled gardens, how do they work?

Pricing

[Anonymous Coward]

If Apple starts actually selling electronic textbooks for significantly less than their paper counterparts I'll be impressed. But, if they continue to sell etextbooks for 5% less than the paper version m!m

Re:Pricing

[Anonymous Coward]

Part of the announcement included $14.99 high school textbooks, and the (ok, only 7) textbooks shown in the iBooks store are standard high school texts, not independent knock-offs. The chemistry book in particular represents at $100+ savings per book off of the physical copy price.

Re:Pricing

[Altus]

Apple doesn't produce text books and they don't decide the price that things get sold at. Just because they provide the store front doesn't mean they get to decide how much apps or books cost.

Re:Pricing

[BasilBrush]

Publishers decide on their own price point. But it sounds like Apple have set a maximum price point of $14.99 for high school text books.

Re:Pricing

[cayenne8]

Publishers decide on their own price point. But it sounds like Apple have set a maximum price point of $14.99 for high school text books.

Really?

Wow....I've never heard of High School students having to buy their own text books...?!?!?!

When did the school districts stop providing textbooks to K-12 students?!?

Re:Pricing

[BasilBrush]

"Publishers decide on their own price point. But it sounds like Apple have set a maximum price point of $14.99 for high school text books."
Really?
Wow....I've never heard of High School students having to buy their own text books...?!?!?!

Nothing in what I said implied that High School Students had to buy their own textbooks.

Re:Pricing

[alen]

those $100 books the schools buy can be used by 100 kids per day for years. now with kids buying $15 books per semester or per year i bet the publishers are going to make a lot more money.

30 books at $100 each is $3000 before the sales drone commissions.
30 students per class/6 classes per teacher is 180 kids buying their own book at $15. $2700 before apple's commission.

but now every kid will have to buy the book since the books won't be shared over the years. and how much you want to be they will introduce the college scam of updating the books a little every year or dumbing them down so that every grade needs a fresh set of books

Re:Pricing

[Anonymous Coward]

And don't forget they'll have to buy the book every year.

My bigger concern: I'm an engineer. I use ALL of the books I took for my engineering courses. How long will those books remain in updated, usable formats? How long will my license be for? Will it only apply when someone is a student, and they'll have to purchase the book again after graduation?

Re:Pricing

[Anonymous Coward]

1 book can be used by 100 kids per day? What, 5 minutes per kid? Please.

Re:Pricing

[donny77]

Here is California, under Ed Code, we must have a book for the students to take home, plus a book for the student to use in class. The in class book can be used for all periods. So your math should be: (30 books * $100) + (30 students per class/6 classes per teacher is 180 kids * $100) = $21,000 Also, here in California we are under strict rules on how public funds can be spent. I cannot buy a $15 eBook and let a student tie it to their iTunes account. What schools tend to do is set up "dummy" accounts for each SCHOOL owned iPad. Meaning the book is still there next year, it doesn't move on with the student. I can't see how I would need to re-buy the books each year. So the new math is: (30 students per class/6 classes per teacher is 180 kids * $15) = $2,700 Now multiply that out by 5 periods with a textbook, we'll assume 1 period of a class that does not use a textbook like PE or Shop. Old: $21,000 * 5 = $105,000 New: $2,700 * 5 + 180 * $450 (cost of iPad) = $94,500

Revolutionary?

[Anonymous Coward]

what about sigil, then? WYSIWYG, open source, multiplatform and free ebook creator http://code.google.com/p/sigil/

Re:Revolutionary?

[Stewie241]

It's revolutionary because it is on an iPad.

This is a good concept, but...

[Reverand Dave]

I would really hate to see textbooks and other such informational sources be controlled through the iTunes market place. Maybe if the documents were in a DRM free format and available across different platforms but apple is not known for playing nice and sharing its toys to the benefit of anyone but its self.

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

As opposed to the current system which is...a complete scam? Where you have to pay $150 for a new edition of a book that differs from the previous version by 2%?

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[B1ackDragon]

I've been starting a textbook project myself recently (it's a lot more work than I first anticipated to flesh out the material and formatting, even with latex, and I haven't even started with the graphic design) so this is quite interesting to me. I saw that ibooks author will export to pdf, my biggest question is: will this be compatible with print-on-demand services? Surely some folks are still going to want dead tree versions, and some topics don't need lots of media interaction. Apple would do very well to consider hosting their own print-on-demand services for this (hmm, sort of like they did with the cards iphone app...)

Another thing I would love to see is some sort of "preview this book" like Amazon's. If Apple is to be believed, this is going to open up book publishing quite a bit, which also means lots of competing books with the standard web-2.0 and appstore quality distribution.

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

what makes you think that will change?

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[elizabeth.pl]

Textbooks are currently "proprietary" already. They cost a ton of money. A new edition is put out every couple of years, so a department or teacher has to choose weather or not to assign problems from different editions. If they don't, a student is forced to, if they have a previous edition, to compare the two editions problem by problem to see which ones are the same.

My professor, just yesterday, was talking about how, when an error is found, he must submit his questions to the publisher. Being somewhat cynical of textbook publishers motivations, I feel that their editing is not that stringent, so that it becomes "necessary" to publish new editions when enough errors are found by professors. I've taken chemistry in high school (10++ years ago), and am currently taking chemistry. Not much has changed between. Why the hell are several editions of a book necessary? Money.

Universities are slow bureaucratic beasts. They do not jump onto new technologies. My university currently uses Desire 2 Learn for it's online content. This is a significant improvement over Blackboard. It took them quite a while to make the switch. I am curious as to how much they paid for it. To have a free option using software many people are familiar with and likely have installed would save public universities, starved of funding, a nice chunk of change. The benefit seems good, but it will take a long time for universities to make the switch.

As for e-textbooks, PDFs suck for textbooks and turning pages and writin in the margins is great. But given the option of buying a paper book by a publisher squeezing every last cent out of students or buying a textbook online that a professor has made available (as long as it has gone through a peer reviewing process) I would jump at it. I can always print pages if necessary.

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[Americano]

Why wouldn't it? You can't resell your DRM'ed ePub anyway, so there's no benefit to the textbook authors in making changes to force new students to purchase new, rather than used.

So what would be the point of making minor formatting updates - are the students who took the course last year going to buy a new copy this year because there was an update?

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[jIyajbe]

This doesn't completely address your concern, but I did run across this statement in the iBooks Author helpfile:

"Note: In iBooks Author, video and audio files used in HTML widgets are not DRM (digital rights management) protected."

FWIW

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

That "crazy" RMS had the date wrong! With respect to textbooks at least, It was suppose to be 2026 not 2096!!

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

So the current system is no different than the one Apple is coming out with. How does that make Apples system better? It screws you over slightly less? Penetration however slight is still penetration.

Apple is not trying to change anything, they are trying to get in on the action themselves. Sure, prices may go down and more options will be avialble but it is still the same broken system we have all complained about for years but now there is one more player.

Re:This is a good concept, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

But surely with eBooks you can ONLY buy the new edition as there is no way to transfer ownership of a license to an eBook, and that's the way publishers want it. If they charge significantly less for the eBook than the physical version then fine, but otherwise it's going to be even more a scam than physical textbooks.

It's all about the Benjamin's

[omganton]

More education profiteering. Closed format, limit accessibility, isolated platform...

Humanity will never grow as a species until education is free and available to everyone. This is a road leading in the opposite direction.

Re:It's all about the Benjamin's

[jo_ham]

A closed format like.... ePub.

Mmmmm.

Try again.

Free authoring tools, free app, HTML5-based books...

Totally the opposite direction to free and available!

Re:It's all about the Benjamin's

[toriver]

Well, ePub with encryption of the contents. But there are tools to get around that; the best is to stick to publishers that use watermarking instead though.

Re:It's all about the Benjamin's

[Anonymous Coward]

ePub format that can only be properly read on an iDevice. And only be made on a Mac. And only allowed be sold to iDevice users. Why are you such a troll?

Re:It's all about the Benjamin's

[Anonymous Coward]

No, a "closed format" like a bastardized, incompatible, DRM-laden variant of ePub that can only be read on Apple's bloated and overpriced readers.

Re:It's all about the Benjamin's

[jo_ham]

You forgot to log in.

Nothing stopping you writing a converter.

Give them a break - they announced it *today* and are giving the tools and reading software away for free.

Re:It's all about the Benjamin's

[ceoyoyo]

Didn't try it out before posting hey? iBooks Author produces zip files that contain xhtml files. I'm sure the pay texts through the store will have DRM if the publisher so desires, but if you want to use iBooks Author to write a free text, go ahead.

Re:It's all about the Benjamin's

[toriver]

Try what? iTunes/iBooks adds the DRM when the book is downloaded, this is well known ever since Jon Lech Johansen examined the goings-on regarding Fairplay for music files back in the day. So I was thinking of the books sold there.

But yeah, you can use the iBooks Author to make non-DRMed ePub/"APub" books and distribute through other channels than the iBooks Store.

Re:It's all about the Benjamin's

[jo_ham]

You forgot to log in.

A solution in search of a problem

[CaptBubba]

I'm not really sold on the idea that we need interactive textbooks, I've never had a textbook that wasn't very sufficiently searchable using the contents and index, and I don't see how you can keep a straight face and make the argument that a $400+ iPad is more durable than a $30 textbook, especially in a school environment where some textbooks can last for a decade or more.

Apple may want the iPad to be the standard with all their little monopolistic heart, but I just don't see it happening anywhere but in random charter or magnet schools who want to show everyone how hip they are with the new technology.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[Tom]

I'm not really sold on the idea that we need interactive textbooks,

You didn't study anything complicated, then.

For all natural sciences, layered diagrams, 3D models that you can turn and watch from more than one perspective, etc. are godsent. Not because they are shiney and "multimedia", but because they convey more information better. Check out anatomy textbooks and tell me the diagrams wouldn't be 100% improved if they supported just layers.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[DrgnDancer]

While this may be true, I don't know that Apple is where the blame needs to be placed. The sheer numbers of students, teachers , and school districts using iPads formally or informally practically begs Apple to take advantage of the situation. If this had been a use case that Apple had expected to be so huge in the first place, I think we would have seen these kinds of tools much earlier. The fact that it's taken this long for Apple to come out with Textbook specific apps makes me think that their sudden popularity in this particular niche caught them as much by surprise as anyone else. They're just being quick to capitalize on the obvious pots of money to be made.

I also think your comparison is a bit unfair. That $400 iPad maybe more expensive than a $30 textbook, but most students above elementary school carry 5-7 textbooks. That brings the costs much closer to inline. Then there are intangibles. You're right that interactivity isn't necessary, but it's nice. There's been increasing concern about the sheer amount of homework that kids are assigned (I don't have a teenager, but after seeing what a few friends kids have to do, it does appear to be a lot more than I ever had to), more interactive book can help focus questions and increase the pace of research. There's been a lot of talk about the weight of books kids carry too, which this could completely eliminate.

In and of themselves I don't know that any of the above is a good reason to switch, but combines they might be. There's also no particular reason that Apple has to be the sole beneficiary here. They're the first to move, but with a little work Barnes and Noble or Amazon could release something similar. Even better, with those two you're not limited to one device. Every major platform has a reader for B&N or Amazon e-books.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[Neil_Brown]

I'm not really sold on the idea that we need interactive textbooks, I've never had a textbook that wasn't very sufficiently searchable using the contents and index

I agree, if you only want the one book / document. If you only need to find your way around one book, then I am unconvinced of the value here, since, unless it is a substantial tome, carrying it with you is not a huge chore.

However, I tend to refer to any number of books when writing, and having them all to hand when I want them — in digital form — is very useful indeed. Similarly, being able to have my whole library of research available to me, just a search away, rather than needing to lug around many files and folders is a massive advantage; I can travel and get on with my work without carrying thousands of sheets of paper.

I hurt my back quite badly at law school, carrying reams of paper and books around; I wish I had been able to study then as I do today.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[CaptBubba]

I have a physics degree. There is nothing that can't be drawn as a sphere.

On a serious note, yes as you get into more advanced disciplines the importance of models and such really takes off. But this announcement, while they mention universities, seems aimed not at higher education but instead at primary and high school level stuff. In those subject levels something which can be better seen with a model or alternate visualization really should instead be used as an entry point for a class lab exercise.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[TrumpetPower!]

What you're missing is that the iPad weighs just over a pound and is the size of a couple dozen sheets of paper...and it can hold a ton of books.

No, literally.

Figure a pound per paper book (they're generally heavier, much heavier in the case of hardcovers) and 10 Mbytes per ebook (generally smaller, unless they're multimedia-rich), and 2,000 paper books would weigh a ton while 2,000 ebooks would use 20 Gbytes. iPads come in 16, 32, and 64 Gbyte models.

Tell me you don't get excited at the thought of carrying around a 5,000+ book library with you everywhere you go, and holding it all literally in the palm of your hand.

Oh -- and the iPad also blows the pants off consumer-level general computing devices of a decade ago, plus it's got a built-in video camera, GPS, and way more.

Now, you might not like Apple's business practices, and I certainly couldn't blame you for it. And an iPad is useless when the battery runs out, isn't the best of the lot in direct sunlight, and so on.

But there's just no way I can take seriously anybody who doesn't see the advantages an iPad (or a similar tablet from another manufacturer) has over dead trees. Or anybody who doesn't see the writing on the wall that dead tree books will, in a very short time, be preferred only by the nostalgic or those with very specific fringe-case use requirements.

Cheers,

b&

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[DarkOx]

I also think your comparison is a bit unfair. That $400 iPad maybe more expensive than a $30 textbook, but most students above elementary school carry 5-7 textbooks. That brings the costs much closer to inline.

The trouble is unless Apple is going to get into the education text book market, (they wont) they are going be a distributor. They will have some influence over the price but they won't be setting the price. Next Apple will likely demand their 30% cut. Novels in e-book form seem to be discounted at most 20% off their dead tree equivalent at final retail. So odds are that $30 text will still cost $24 or given a little bit less elastic market than fiction, it might still be closer to $28. So us tax payers will be buying every brat an IPad AND still paying almost as much for text books. There is not savings there.

The next issue most text books get used between 5 and 10 years, what will license on these e-texts be, my guess is we will get to pay over and over again for each kid, each year.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[CaptBubba]

Oh certainly I can see the advantages for a single person. I use the heck out of my e-reader. But it isn't exactly a strong selling point for K-12 schools, which is who Apple is going after with this announcement. The students do the day-to-day carrying so it doesn't show up on the school budget, and the movement of books to and from a central repository for a school district likely doesn't register more than a year start/end blip on their logistics as most schools I know of just store books in the empty classrooms for the next year.

For universities it is even less of a deal because they even get to charge the students for the distribution of books because they make the students buy them.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[BasilBrush]

With primary and high school students, it's important to catch their interest. They are going to be far more interested in a model of the solar system where they can zoom in on each body or orbit, rather than static diagrams. Or models of body parts in biology. If they can see an internal combustion engine in motion... etc. In History, if they can play with a 3D model of the Collesium, rather than look at a picture.

ebooks are certainly a step forward in education.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[jIyajbe]

The interactivity is far, far more than simple indexing and glossary-lookup. I downloaded Apple's "Yellow Submarine" book a month or two ago. (Looking back on it, it's obvious that they were putting blood in the water for iBooks Author.) Every page had interactive elements; I could tap on an image and a relevant song would play, or a video, or a picture that was interactive, not static. If I recall correctly, the iPad would have read the book out loud.

I've downloaded iBooks Author and am looking at it now. You can add interactive images, image galleries, movies, audio, review questions, Keynote presentations(!), interactive 3D objects, and HTML.

I'm a college physics instructor; I am salivating at the potential of this for a physics textbook. What if my students could, for example, tap on the each of the terms in a conservation of momentum equation (as an interactive graphical element) and the book would tell them the physical meaning of each symbol, and then run a movie showing (say) a collision of two objects (elastic? inelastic? 1-d? 2-d?). Or have a 3-d plot of an electric field that they could rotate right there in their textbook? How about have the relevant (and CURRENT) Wikipedia article pop up INSIDE their textbook? Did a topic get out of date ("hey, we found the Higgs a week after you published your textbook!") No problem, a quick update and the new info is in the book!

I agree with another poster, at this time I cannot justify requiring an iPad (or anything technological that my school doesn't provide), but I definitely see this style of textbook--on whatever platform--as the future. As long as e-texts are simply photonic versions of paper books, I see little value in them. But add this interactivity, and...the possibilities to really transform student learning are breathtaking.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Errr...you're aware that Apple already announced they've got the major textbook publishers on board and the price for textbooks will be $14.99, right?

Helps to read the coverage of the event.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[LynnwoodRooster]

Yes, because as we know education 50 years ago - before the age of computers in every classroom - no one learned anything and there we no groundbreaking inventions and science leaps. Thankfully we have SHINY SCREENS with animation to catch interest so the children will finally want to learn!

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[excelsior_gr]

Meh, that is why a book can come with a sleeve containing a CD/DVD with such media.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[Darinbob]

Apple is going to sell each ebook at a price, it won't be $400 for ipad then all the free books you can stuff in it. It will be $400 for an ipad then $25 books most likely.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[Darinbob]

I have 30 year old text books that I can still refer to. How many people can still read the data and media from even 15 years ago?

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[sosume]

That $400 iPad maybe more expensive than a $30 textbook, but most students above elementary school carry 5-7 textbooks.

Nice try! The cheapest iPad starts at $499.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[ceoyoyo]

Apple is targeting higher education first. They'd LIKE to hit the K-12 group because there's a lot of money there, but that's not going to happen today or tomorrow because textbooks need to be approved, schools will have to acquire hardware, etc.

K-12 is probably where the big payoff for multimedia texts is though. As a little grade seven student (a LONG time ago - I think we had 286s then) I wrote a program to render rotating wireframe geometric shapes when we were doing a geometry unit. The class loved it. Now you can stick one of those right in the textbook under the "tetrahedron" section. Sure paper textbooks work. Used properly, these might work better. And no, every time you want to show a picture of something that happens to be 3D or moving you should not have to launch into a class lab exercise.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[ceoyoyo]

You realize Apple announced today that they'll distribute (i.e. publish) anybody's textbook through iBooks, right?

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[BasilBrush]

I know grumpy old people like to think everything was better in their day. But everything I see says education is better today. Heck, here in Britain in the 1970s they used to run TV programs on Sunday to teach adults to read because so many of them had left school not being able to.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[wfolta]

... more durable than a $30 textbook, especially in a school environment where some textbooks can last for a decade or more.

How many of those books are up-to-date after that decade or more? How about if you compare, say, 6 of those textbooks in a backpack versus an iPad in a backpack: which leads to a more durable back, neck, and shoulders? How many of those books can be marked up by each student to fit their study style? (Not counting the first student or two who uses them.)

How many of those books actually cost $30? Can students keep them after they've studied the subject?

There are a LOT of advantages to electronic books that are done well.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[digitallife]

My shirt from physics in 2nd year had on it a cow blown up like a balloon, and the text 'first, assume the cow is spherical'. I loved physics.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[dogmatixpsych]

I agree completely. I am in a field where these sorts of textbooks would be tremendously helpful. In fact, it would be fairly straightforward to put together my own textbook with my own images and movies and diagrams and offer it as a free download to my students. Then, as needed, I could update the book with the latest info. I would offer the material to students without iPads/iPhones/iPod Touches for free, it just wouldn't be quite as pretty. I was planning on my students never having to purchase a textbook again but now this will make it much easier to do that (unfortunately, they'd have to read my own book but at least it would be free, probably about what it would be worth).

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[LynnwoodRooster]

Perhaps it was better back then... The US has a 75% literacy rate, and a majority of those illiterate folks are high school graduates...

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[BasilBrush]

Nonsense.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[adversus]

I'm not really sold on the idea that we need interactive textbooks, I've never had a textbook that wasn't very sufficiently searchable using the contents and index, and I don't see how you can keep a straight face and make the argument that a $400+ iPad is more durable than a $30 textbook, especially in a school environment where some textbooks can last for a decade or more.

Apple may want the iPad to be the standard with all their little monopolistic heart, but I just don't see it happening anywhere but in random charter or magnet schools who want to show everyone how hip they are with the new technology.

Why the hell would you WANT your child using a Textbook that's a decade old or more? That's part of the problem. When I was in high school (94-98), I had a social studies textbook which had a giant "USSR" label over the northern Asian continent.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[celtic_hackr]

Unfortunately, you are just giving your limited experience to back it up. "Everything you see" might not be the right things to look at. For example, I homeschooled my daughter in 2nd grade Math over the summer. That included money handling, time telling (analog not digital) addition and subtraction to the thousands with carry, and introductory multiplication and division. This is what I learned in 2nd grade. It's what my mother learned in 2nd grade. It's not what is being covered in my daughter's public school in 2nd grade. They will not get to introductory multiplication and division. No addition or subtraction tables, are taught. While I didn't stress the tables, I showed her how to build them. It is just another tool. Her PS is all based on repetition of number families.

I'm all for new ways to learn. I've incorporated some of those techniques, but I believe in giving more choices, rather than less. I'm not impressed with today's education system. I clearly think it is not superior to 50 years ago. Or 100 years ago. There are some things better. Some things worse. If educators were given a free hand to teach, WOW! The things we might see. But as long as bureaucrats and Politicians decide? Well, need I say more than SOPA and PIPA? DMCA? Post 9/11? DHS? Been to an airport lately?

Lastly, I've recently discovered they don't teach script handwriting anymore in the local Elementary schools? Good thing, I've taught her how already. Otherwise she might never be able to sign her name on those EULAs. Oh Doh! That's right, there's no place to sign an EULA.
You agree by using, or landing on the page from a Google search.

Oh, and BTW, even here in America, Johnny still can't read. It's amazing how many kids today make it out of elementary school and can't read in a proficient manner. Spelling? Forget it! YMMV, depending on the school district. Rich people sending kids to expensive private schools expect results, and guess what? They get them. Same as it was 1000 years ago. Same as it ever was.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[celtic_hackr]

How many of those books are up-to-date after that decade or more?

How often does 1+1 = 2 change?

Changing history much? Well then you must live in Texas.

Coming up with new ways to spell common English words like "cat", "dog", "run","play" ?

Designing new and wonderful plants and animals?

Most of the books for grades K-6, don't change very much in a decade. There are exceptions. And some of the classes in 7-12, will of course become obsolete. Although, I can't recall ever having a decade old book in any class, until I hit Physics 340 in college. Which the professor had reprinted from an out of print book. Worst teacher I ever had. Optics. I don't think I learned anything in that class.

And do you really think schools are going to be giving away $500 iPads to students every year? Hunh! Dream on. We have to buy the school supplies every year that used to be paid for by the schools. So, now schools will have to replace a number of iPads every year, as students steal, lose, break them and the welfare parents are on the hook for replacing? Unh huh.
  No doubt there are lots of advantages. To having $80 ereaders. But you're not allowed to bring in cameras to public schools. Phones have to be turned off. Apparently some kids like to take, well, adventurous pictures with them. You're not going to see iPads in Schools. Maybe Nook Tablets or the like.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[Neil_Brown]

I have 30 year old text books that I can still refer to

Yep, definitely a good point — and a clear call for open formats, to reduce the risk.

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[4phun]

Oh, and BTW, even here in America, Johnny still can't read. It's amazing how many kids today make it out of elementary school and can't read in a proficient manner.

I volunteer to privately assist a few. I make sure I am using simplified English.

If a student can not understand a new concept, it is because they fail to understand the real meaning of the words we are using. It is sometimes better to examine each word and determine what it adds to our subject. Review, rinse and repeat.

The bottom line - KEEP IT SIMPLE.
 

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps Apple has plans for a $199 ipad that is tailored for schools. It could have less horsepower or certain features locked so they don't cannibalize the normal iPad sales.

Having spent over $1000 on my son's college books this year, I have no problem spending a few hundred for a reader (assuming the electronic version of the book is at least $10 cheaper than the physical copy).

Re:A solution in search of a problem

[BasilBrush]

I said "I know grumpy old people like to think everything was better in their day."

Your message is a textbook example of a rant by grumpy old man.

Wrong platform

[Randle_Revar]

The iPad is the wrong platform for this. Something eink based or possibly Pixel Qi (if you wanted color and animation/video) based would be better.

Re:Wrong platform

[b0bby]

I don't know; magazines are certainly nice on the iPad (try the New Yorker, it's even better than the print version IMHO). The multimedia aspects of an e-textbook would be great on an ipad.

Re:Wrong platform

[Neil_Brown]

The iPad is the wrong platform for this

I'd have thought that it would depend.

I would much prefer an eInk screen for readability, since the backlit screen of my iPad causes my eyes to feel strained after prolonged reading. However, I also like to mark up and annotate my documents (be they articles, texts or otherwise), and, of all the devices I have tried so far, the iPad offers the best experience for this. I've studied all of my masters degree so far without printing a single page, using my iPad for all the reading, and it seems to have worked out okay — but an eInk screen capable of supporting annotations conveniently would be fantastic. For the moment, though, for me, the iPad is right, simply because it is the least wrong.

Re:Wrong platform

[s73v3r]

If it was solely text, then maybe you'd be right. But adding in images, video, and other interactive content, that means that e-ink is out. Maybe Pixel Qi, but those screens haven't really taken off yet.

Re:Wrong platform

[beelsebob]

Right, eInk would be way better for full colour, interactive 3D diagrams... Wait... no.

Apple strategy

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess: Proprietary solution locking out competition and locking in customers. Won't fly...

Re:Apple strategy

[beelsebob]

If by "proprietry solution" you mean ePub 3 plus open extensions, sure.

Re:Organized trolling campaign by GreatMunzinni

[gweihir]

What, and you now confirm the accusations by trolling here, as AC and off-topic? How stupid can you get?

You have obviously missed

[Shivetya]

I have read many stories about how Apple has been trying to get local and state governments to buy iPads (at one time the Macbooks) and use them in schools. These new tools simply provide more leverage.

See, Apple knows where the real money is, government. With good marketing, which Apple is king of, you can bet they will get your tax dollars in large amounts to "fix education" and any attempts to deny entry will be branded as racist or worse because they will always point to some little kid and guilt you.

Just like Segway made most of their money off of government agencies Apple is aiming for it too. They have nearly tapped out the tablet market and worse for them, Android tablets are catching up. So they need to get in this market and get there now while they are the hot name on everyone's lips.

So, be prepared over the next year or so where politicians line up to associate their name with Apple ... and the ghost of Steve Jobs

Re:You have obviously missed

[nahdude812]

Unfortunately this is a terrible time to be trying to make money off the primary education market (where government money is). Secondary education is great because kids are buying their own equipment, usually financed by their parents, and lots and lots of kids are going to college who have no business doing so. But that's typically private money, not government money.

In primary education, budgets are being cut left and right. Maybe some upper class schools will be providing iPads for their students, or private schools which require this as part of admission. But in typical public schools, the teachers and parents would revolt. You're cutting after school programs, gifted and special education, and cutting teacher heads, but you have money to buy a bunch of GADGETS?!?

iPads for primary education are terrible. They are a distraction for students; you can do too many unrelated activities on them, and are easily destroyed. If a student loses an entire bookbag full of books, the replacement costs are probably less than losing this single fragile high-theft-target device.

The Web.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is maddening. How can it be that nobody is scratching their heads and wondering how this fundamentally differs from browsers and web sites. The whole damn thing is silly.

Re:The Web.

[Altus]

Having a local copy that you can use off line and mark up is different from browsers and web sites. I mean, the underlying technology is pretty much the same, but they are packaged up for optimized off line use and have features that make them more like books. Plus, these are easier to sell than content on a web site.

I don't really see the problem with having 2 different things for 2 different purposes. Just because we have web sites doesn't mean that ebooks aren't useful.

Re:The Web.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. This is the whoop-dee-doo of the century. Is Apple making e-textbooks better? No. Proprietary? Yes.

I'm the target for this, and I won't be using it.

[sdavid]

As a university professor and a mac user, I'm the obvious target for software like this, and in many respects it looks very attractive. However, I can't, in good conscience, force my students onto a particular platform, and that's what using this for course materials would do. I suppose it would be good if the university required all students to buy and iPad (and that's probably Apple's goal here), but without that it's useless. Proprietary formats like iBooks or the Kindle are out, and I'll continue to distribute materials to my students as pdf files, despite the limitations of that format.

I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[gameguy1957]

Apple's going to sell a ton of iPads because of this and the book manufacturer's are going to make a lot of money reselling the books each year instead on one large sell to the schools every six or seven years. If each book my kid's books used was available next year I would save enough to buy an iPad each year. I don't see a reason not to like this. I save money to the tune of about $600 a year on books if the school's adapt to it by next year, Apple makes money selling new iPads, and then the book publisher also makes money.

Re:I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[SebaSOFT]

Are you serious? Can you assure every student in america will carry an iPad just for the sake of this? Can you tell for sure that even rural schools and home schools will have access to iPads and the format will be open and free to lend textbooks to neighbors and relatives without having to lend the entire iPad thing?

A lot of us have step outside our bubbles (including me in some aspects)

Re:I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[s73v3r]

No. You're trying to say that if every single student doesn't use this, then it's worthless. That assertion is absurd on its face.

Re:I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[Anonymous Coward]

1. How do you think you are saving money? The current scenario is buy the books. The new scenario is buy the books + an ipad. Also, you don't get to sell the books anymore. Also also, the books may be able to be turned off after you're 'rental' period over. Do you really think that making the books more complicated(video, interactivity, etc...) is going to massively drop the price?

2. All of the students are required to go through a single company to buy their reader. A company whose products only work to their full potential when chained together with MORE products from the company. This company also gets money from each book sold(rented?).

3. Propriety software means you accessibility features can't be added by the community.

4. If anyone says they're selling you magic, they are lying and you should think very carefully.

Re:I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[VortexCortex]

Teacher! I dropped my $400 textbook reader!

Re:I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[beelsebob]

1. How do you think you are saving money? The current scenario is buy the books. The new scenario is buy the books + an ipad. Also, you don't get to sell the books anymore. Also also, the books may be able to be turned off after you're 'rental' period over. Do you really think that making the books more complicated(video, interactivity, etc...) is going to massively drop the price?

Right, but take a look in the store –there's a chemistry book in there for $14.99 that's $120 in print – it only takes 5 books like that to pay for the device. And yes, with textbooks, where colour printing, and the volume of paper, and the cost of transporting heavy items, this is going to bring big cost reductions.

2. All of the students are required to go through a single company to buy their reader. A company whose products only work to their full potential when chained together with MORE products from the company. This company also gets money from each book sold(rented?).

Luckily, this is just ePub 3.

3. Propriety software means you accessibility features can't be added by the community.

Luckily, this is just ePub 3.

It's amazing how quickly people jump on the "zomg, proprietry" bandwaggon when they hear the world Apple.

Re:I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[sosume]

Please tell me how to buy the iBook then from iTunes with my Android tablet, eh?

Re:I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[beelsebob]

Please tell me how to buy applications from the android marketplace and run them on my iPad... The fact that you happen not to have the right application to access one of many sources for iBooks does not mean that they are not in a nice, standard, open format.

Re:I don't see a problem with this arrangement.

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

1. How do you think you are saving money? The current scenario is buy the books. The new scenario is buy the books + an ipad.

Errm you probably haven't been paying attention - but the current scenario in a lot of schools is "buy the books and an iPad", the new scenario is "buy the cheaper iBooks and we already bought the iPad".

No more paper books....

[nurb432]

Will make it far easier to manipulate and censor the past, and thus control the future. E-books should be a convenient option to complement existing dead tree versions, not replace them.

Re:No more paper books....

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yea cause God knows history hasn't been rewritten prior to this.

Re:No more paper books....

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon has already eliminated books from accounts after the books were purchased and Amazon decided they would no longer sell them. There will be nothing but hard-copy books in my library.

Re:No more paper books....

[pwn3d]

Heh, have you been watching the textbook approval circus in Texas lately? There are plenty of influential groups doing that _right now_ with paper books. Digital versions just mean the additions/subtractions will appear faster. The censorship issues won't change, they'll just be more efficient ;) .

Re:No more paper books....

[nurb432]

I didn't say it never happened, i said this would make it easier. Almost trivial in fact

Re:No more paper books....

[nurb432]

Which was my point.

Much as they have 'sanitized' classics before they let school children access them, its not that this process is new, but it will become easy to go full out as once everyone's copy has been changed/eliminated in masse, who is going to be able to speak up?

Re:No more paper books....

[CharlyFoxtrot]

BS. In the past the pharaoh could just issue an edict saying someone was now a non-person, have a few names chipped out of monuments and he'd be done. Changing history now is practically impossible, even in your worst DRM nightmare. Unless of course you create a cult of people willing to live in their own manufactured reality (see the Tea Party for example.) That was the whole point of 1984, yet people focus on the tele-screens and become technophobic.

Re:No more paper books....

[dogmatixpsych]

The past is already censored. We don't study the past so we already don't learn from it. A few people study history but many of our history sources are biased already. The only way to get the least unbiased sources are to go to the primary sources, which few people do (or have the ability to do). Even then, what we have about the past is limited and biased towards/by the literate.

Textbook capabilities?

[MisterMidi]

Will I be able to rip out pages and use them as tinder?

Re:Textbook capabilities?

[Tetsujin]

No, but if you rip out the battery it can make a great incendiary device.

I really don't get the point of this...

[dell623]

Why exactly do we need iPads in the classroom? What the hell does an iPad do that cheaper full fledged computers haven't been able to do for ages? Why are we spending $500+support etc costs per student to get them iPads? The reason we use notebooks and books in the classroom isn't some luddite obsession, it's because if I had an iPad to play with in class in school, I don't think much learning would have happened.

The iPad is an awful device for reading. It would be greeat fun in a classroom, to hold the iPad and oyurself at just the right angle to avoid all the lights being reflected spectacularly on it - has anyone actually tried to read for long on an iPad? And that lovely blocky low res screen? The iPad doesn't even offer a quarter of the resolution of a real book, and about a quarter of the amount of material visible on a large textbook open with two pages visible. Who in their sane mind is going to replace that with a crummy highly reflective low resolution tiny 10 inch screen that you pay half a grand for?

you want textbooks, make a better Kindle DX and give that to the kids. No touchscreen. Lets you read books and carry thousands of books around. The browser is ok for wikipedia etc, not so good for Facebook. That has some potential of being a textbook platform. but an iPad, seriously?

I am not arguing it won't be successful, because wonderfully the people who decide on technology matters for schools have no clue what they are doing, they'll swallow the buzzword talk easily. And come on, it's Apple and we all know Apple can do no wrong.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[dell623]

The $500+ pays for the iPad, not for content. It is just the material cost. How many books in high resolution full colour can you print for that much money - just the printing cost, not content cost? Quite a lot I would imagine.

Apple has officially gone stupid, it's now a yuppie brand, selling overpriced sleekness that does things computers did ten years ago, but now slower and lower quality.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Tom]

What the hell does an iPad do that cheaper full fledged computers haven't been able to do for ages?

It can sit on your desk alongside your books, papers, pencils and not take up all the space. You can carry it around, and it has a great form-factor for using it as a tool.

Typical geek error: You think this is about technological capabilities, specs - it isn't. It is about design, about integration into the workflow, about everything around the device as much as the device itself.

if I had an iPad to play with in class in school, I don't think much learning would have happened.

That absolutely is the #1 argument against an iPad or any other multi-purpose electronic gadget. Then again, if pupils want to play, they will. Back in my days, we played on paper. Worked, too.

And come on, it's Apple and we all know Apple can do no wrong.

They've done plenty of wrong. The reason you don't hear much about it is that unlike MS they don't keep their mistakes around for ages, spending billions on them until either they are so dead that they have to bury them because they start to smell (Zune), or the sheer amount of money and exclusivity-deals and other niceties that money can buy make it into a viable thing (xbox).

Apple buries its mistakes and moves on. Doesn't mean they don't make plenty of mistakes.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Lumpy]

I love how the iPad haters sound just like the Republicans. Make up things to reinforce their point of view.

The ipad does not have a very small viewing angle, get over that blatent lie. yes it's a shiny surface, so is most laptops and other color e-readers. where it has a REAL failure is you can not read on one in direct sunlight. this is because of a poor choice of LCD. A trans reflective LCD solves this. MY Fujitsu tablet has one and the screen is better outside (and still shiny) Blocky low res?? have you ever touched an ipad?

the ipad is a AWESOME device or textbooks, reading about dinosaurs and having animations or being able to have interactive parts is incredibly cool. Every classroom I see them using the ipad the kids are enthralled and are learning at a far faster rate. Yes there are schools with them in the classrooms now, My company installed 2900 of them to a regular old school district last year. The teacher can broadcast to the proejctor or 55" lcd in the room via a apple TV and airplay so the kids can all see what she is doing or talking about. They are wonderful devices for this.

Finally test taking ON the ipad rocks. and they are durable as hell in the right case. I watched a 6 year old ADHD brat throw one to the ground and jump up and down on it. On the SCREEN, not the back. no damage in that special case they bought for the kids ipads to go into.

The problem is people are making up reasons to NOT use them simply because they are incapable of reasoning why they do work. It's the grumpy old man syndrome and you have it pretty bad.

The kindle is a failure at text books for 2 reasons. 1 - too damn small. Sorry but only the Kindle DX is big enough for textbooks, and those are as much as an ipad. 2 - no software for education, no interactive books, no way to show it's screen on a larger screen for sharing. Kindle = fail in K-12.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Grizzley9]

It would be greeat fun in a classroom, to hold the iPad and oyurself at just the right angle to avoid all the lights being reflected spectacularly on it - has anyone actually tried to read for long on an iPad? And that lovely blocky low res screen? The iPad doesn't even offer a quarter of the resolution of a real book, and about a quarter of the amount of material visible on a large textbook open with two pages visible. Who in their sane mind is going to replace that with a crummy highly reflective low resolution tiny 10 inch screen that you pay half a grand for?

I suppose it would depend on your major / study subject. In my engineering and elective classes, reading for long periods of time was not a common occurrence, just reading the problem and working it. Long reading only happened in literature and history classes. And IMHO, reading on the iPad is just fine. The same as reading on your coveted laptop you seem to want to cling so dearly to.

As for your "low-res" comment, the credible rumors point to the iPad 3 launch in March as having a retina-type display. Also, numerous universities have gone to an all Apple campus with Freshmen getting Macbooks and/or iPads, iPhones as part of tuition. This would fold quite nicely into that setup.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[s73v3r]

What the hell does an iPad do that cheaper full fledged computers haven't been able to do for ages?

It's a lot more convenient to carry around, and a lot more comfortable to read books on.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[PCM2]

the ipad is a AWESOME device or textbooks, reading about dinosaurs and having animations or being able to have interactive parts is incredibly cool.

Well, yes... except in this case the animation and interactivity parts would all be lies, because nobody has ever seen a dinosaur move, much less interacted with one. It would just be things moving around and making noises for no reason... giving kids cartoons because presumably books are too boring. You might as well have them watch Ice Age. (Thank you for watching Dinosaur Textbook, brought to you by the makers of Ice Age! Stay tuned for Chapter 3, after this message!)

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[dell623]

It can sit on your desk alongside your books, papers, pencils and not take up all the space. You can carry it around, and it has a great form-factor for using it as a tool.

It has a great form factor for using it as a toy. The minute you start using it for actual work it's woefully inadequate, especially compared to a laptop that costs less money. And if you can afford to buy junior an iPad, you can get him a desk large enough. And if we were ok lugging 7-8 kilos of textbooks to school, kids today can lug a 2-3kg laptop if they really need a computing device.

That absolutely is the #1 argument against an iPad or any other multi-purpose electronic gadget. Then again, if pupils want to play, they will. Back in my days, we played on paper. Worked, too.

Oh I would have played a lot more, if I had a device that made it look like I was reading a textbook from where the teacher was, and where I could be deep in The Adventure of Asterix.

Apple buries its mistakes and moves on. Doesn't mean they don't make plenty of mistakes.

No the 'mistakes' get covered by the halo. If Google made this announcement it would be all about how Android is not open how google control all information etc etc. Since it's Apple we are told it's revolutionary. Bah.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing this was typed on the ipad, and that they still haven't fixed the RANDOM CAPITALIZATION bug...

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[dell623]

The ipad does not have a very small viewing angle,

I don't mean the viewing angle, I mean the fact that the screen is useless in bright light and reflects all light sources. The iPad is not a reading device. Especially when e-ink is much cheaper and better for reading.

Blocky low res?? have you ever touched an ipad?

Ever read a book or a magazine? Ever tried comparing the density of the output to an iPad screen?

reading about dinosaurs and having animations or being able to have interactive parts is incredibly cool.

And then junior needs a laptop to type his dinosaurs assignment. So you get him a laptop. So now kids need a laptop AND an iPad. Animations and interactive parts were cool over 15 years ago when we first got 'multimedia' computers, and kids received Encarta 94 on their birthday. Tell me again where an iPad comes into this?

Every classroom I see them using the ipad the kids are enthralled and are learning at a far faster rate.

Wonder how fast they would be learning had $500 per kid been spent on good teachers and textbooks. Did you check any classrooms that had kids over the age of 5, not in playschool?

The teacher can broadcast to the proejctor or 55" lcd in the room via a apple TV and airplay so the kids can all see what she is doing or talking about.

So the teacher can do exactly the same thing teachers have been able to do for years with a computer and an LCD projector. But you spent about 5 grand, so your kids study in 1080p.

Finally test taking ON the ipad rocks. and they are durable as hell in the right case.

Test taking on a computer? Why didn't anyone come up with that before? Ah a case. Will that be one of those shiny $50 Apple cases sir? Excellent. And would you like your kid to have the three gees in his iPad, that will be another $100.

It's the grumpy old man syndrome and you have it pretty bad.

Us grumpy old men have been working to understand how to make kids learn for years, and good teachers have been able to make kids learn for thousands of years. They can go home and play with their iPads. Schools need good teachers, good teachers are rare, and they are everything, there is endless research to suggest that: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/13/class-notes-the-power-of-good-teachers-and-other-education-news/

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[dell623]

It's a lot more convenient to carry around, and a lot more comfortable to read books on.

You know what's convenient to read books on? Paper. I don't know what schools are like these days, we spent most of our free time outdoors even when we had to study, study was interspersed with play. And classrooms were bright with gigantic windows. Precisely the situation where an iPad is useless.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[BasilBrush]

Why exactly do we need iPads in the classroom? What the hell does an iPad do that cheaper full fledged computers haven't been able to do for ages?

When "fully fledged computers" were new, people were asking why we needed THEM in the classroom. Same with calculators. No doubt back in the day there were people arguing for chalk and slate rather than the expense of paper exercise books.

Why are we spending $500+support etc costs per student to get them iPads?

Support costs is an interesting topic. No doubt they are far lower for iPads than PCs. There's so much less that can go wrong with them.

The reason we use notebooks and books in the classroom isn't some luddite obsession, it's because if I had an iPad to play with in class in school, I don't think much learning would have happened.

Of course it's luddite.
1) Play and learning are not mutually exclusive. Give kids apps to play with that they are learning from.
2) iPads can have restrictions set so that kids can't install their own apps, and restrict what they can do with the built in apps.

The iPad is an awful device for reading.

You don't sound like you're very familiar with them.

you want textbooks, make a better Kindle DX and give that to the kids. No touchscreen.

And no interactivity. Seems like you want school to be as dull as when you went there.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Americano]

Yes, because animations, layered charts, zoomable 3d models - these would all be useless, pointless frippery in, say, a science textbook.

Who wants a 3d image of the various muscles of the human body? Who wants a zoomable model of a plant to inspect various structures in finer detail. Who wants a math textbook that will allow you to manipulate functions and graphs in real time?

That's all useless crap that NOBODY will ever use, want, or benefit from! Black and white words on paper were good enough for years, and by god, that's all these punk kids should get!

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[BasilBrush]

Well, yes... except in this case the animation and interactivity parts would all be lies, because nobody has ever seen a dinosaur move, much less interacted with one.

That doesn't mean that scientists don't have a very good idea of how they moved. There's been loads of research in that area. And it's quite legitimate to show what they do know and point out what they don't.

And even cartoon dinosaurs have their place for young kids. They don't need an accurate representation of a dinosaur or anything else to learn reading and number.

You make it sound like avoiding boring kids is a bad thing! How silly. Interested, stimulated kids learn a lot more than bored kids.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Tetsujin]

the ipad is a AWESOME device or textbooks, reading about dinosaurs and having animations or being able to have interactive parts is incredibly cool.

Well, yes... except in this case the animation and interactivity parts would all be lies, because nobody has ever seen a dinosaur move, much less interacted with one.

For that matter, no one has seen a dinosaur in any form other than fossilized skeletal remains. All the illustration and sculpture we see featuring dinosaurs with flesh on them is also fiction. Even some of the assembled skeletons have turned out to be wrong. It's fiction based on our best reasoned guesses about how the animals probably looked, but fiction nonetheless.

If such fiction is well-reasoned, then it is not without value.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[SteveFoerster]

I love how the iPad haters sound just like the Republicans. Make up things to reinforce their point of view.

Exactly, because neither Apple enthusiasts nor members of other political parties ever do that.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[sl149q]

Right, what student needs more than an abacus, slate and a piece of chalk! Anything past that is just fancy modern junk that has no place in a modern learning establishment.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[PDoc]

Actually, it depends on what you define as 'work'. For certain aspects of my work (as a science writer), the iPad is a fantastic device. I can work anywhere, read academic publications with ease, and even write monthly columns. My former laptop was stolen; I replaced it with an iPad, and the productivity increase has been huge. This is just my experience, though, and it won't hold for many professions. But don't make such sweeping generalisations unless you look at life outside your cubicle!

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[toriver]

A tablet works in portrait form, which most books look best in. A laptop? Not so much. An iPad is easy to read on while standing - a laptop? Not so much. Plus if you are reading what is that large slab of keys doing there? Nothing, it is just in the way. "Actual work" does not enter into the picture when we focus on the task at hand: Reading a book.

Seriously, do you not see that your "toy" argument is just as valid for a "Wintendo" laptop? Or are you saying laptops have see-through backs so the teacher can see whether you are just playing some Facebook game du jour?

Google? You mean the company that scans "orphan" works, hoping that the copyright holders don't make a fuss? They are free to make an equivalent service for Android if they like. But they don't because schools would frown on their ad-based model where you, the user, is the product.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[toriver]

The iPad is not a reading device.

Darn, I wish you had told me that earlier, here I was happily subscribing to magazines in Zinio and thought I was reading them comfortably on my iPad, but it turns out that is not possible!

Need a laptop? Bullshit, you just put a lightweight Bluetooth keyboard into the sack.

iPad haters seem more and more like envious brats...

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[toriver]

Get off my lawn mode detected. Now, compute the difference in weight between an iPad with 20+ books and those 20+ books in printed form.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Missing.Matter]

And IMHO, reading on the iPad is just fine. The same as reading on your coveted laptop you seem to want to cling so dearly to.

I enjoy reading on the iPad too, but I also enjoy reading outside in the summer. Even in the shade, on an 80 degree day my iPad 1 started complaining about overheating.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Tom]

The minute you start using it for actual work it's woefully inadequate, especially compared to a laptop that costs less money.

You're jealous because you've never used one. I currently own both a full-size computer and an iPad. For some tasks, I use the one, for others the other. But I know that when I leave the house and don't plan to do something like coding, I'll pack the iPad over a notebook simply because it is lighter, smaller, and does everything I usually need it to do on the road.

Notebooks and tablets are not the same thing, they have different purposes, different advantages and disadvantages. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to differentiate.

Oh I would have played a lot more, if I had a device that made it look like I was reading a textbook from where the teacher was, and where I could be deep in The Adventure of Asterix.

Oh please. You have a good argument there, don't shred it by becomign ridiculous. Playing in class is easy, no matter what you have at your disposal.

If Google made this announcement it would be all about how Android is not open how google control all information etc etc. Since it's Apple we are told it's revolutionary. Bah.

Are you reading some kind of filtered /. that I don't have access to?

Of course the spin Apple puts on it is all positive - Google would do the same.
The comments here on /. are largely critical. I don't think they would be much different if it were Google.

So really, where do you get this from? Are you just some weird kind of Apple-Anti-Fanboy?

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Americano]

Get out of here with your fancy modern abacus. The good lord gave us 10 fingers and 10 toes, that's all ANYBODY needs to learn the basics.

And why do you need to write anything down? You have a goddamned memory for that!

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

I love how the iPad haters sound just like the Republicans. Make up things to reinforce their point of view.

I'm having a hard time deciding whether I'd rather be lumped in with Republicans or hipster iThing users.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Exactly, maybe a zoomable diagram of the human body with cutaways as you zoom into certain organs or a 3D movable model of the heart ? A trackable 360 degree picture of the Acropolis might be nice in a history textbook. And a moving model of an atom in a physics book, or an animated version of the double slit experiment to show the properties of light. I could think of a million uses for animation in textbooks.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Shall we get off your lawn ?

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Grizzley9]

And IMHO, reading on the iPad is just fine. The same as reading on your coveted laptop you seem to want to cling so dearly to.

I enjoy reading on the iPad too, but I also enjoy reading outside in the summer. Even in the shade, on an 80 degree day my iPad 1 started complaining about overheating.

Interesting. We got our iPad2 a couple months ago. Now while I don't see us using it much outside, I will have to watch for that. Perhaps it's and iPad1 thing as my iPad/iPhone don't warm up unless I'm playing games.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

I love how the iPad shills sound just like Republicans. Cloud over the issues to reinforce their point of view.
(Throw your inane politics into every discussion, do you? What a dull conversationalist you must be at parties.)

Your company installed 2900 of them - oh, yeah, you're impartialilty personified, aren't you ?

These are a fucking DISASTER in the making. I'm all for using the technology intelligently and fairly, but the lock-in and the appley pricing and the collusion stink badly.
Consumerism, pollution, corporate tie-ins, revisionism, censorship, ... just stop me when you've had enough.

Education should be fucking free by now. I can't fathom why anyone wants to chase the USA down the toilet with their hyper-expensive education system.
WE all grew up without iPads and look what we've built.
There were no calculators in my high school end of year exams, and I can still do advanced algebra, 4th order predicate logic and vision systems.
Learned 2 dozen programming languages. Can't see why watching an animated dinosaur's gonna help with that.

Jesus , but you make me sick. Did you permanently trade your brain for a corporate pay check?
Why would I need to spend even MORE money on my kids than was spent on me.
My 25 year old calculus text (Leithold) still beats the pants off anything I've seen come out in the last 20 years.

I learnt to organise myself, my backpack and my student life to accommodate some weighty volumes.
Didn't do me any harm, learned me up good, it did.

Anyone voting for these on my school board gets the axe, as far as I'm concerned.

Now get off my fucking lawn.

Re:I really don't get the point of this...

[hopelessliar]

Sorry I know this thread is old now - I read it when it was new and yesterday my boss started talking about exactly what you've done in a College in the UK and I remembered your post. We install and support 'new' technologies in an educational setting and now my boss is talking about using iPads via Airplay and Apple TV... I'd be really interested in any other details you could tell us about what you implememnted and the upsides/downsides. I'm particularly interested in whether you can a) annotate whatever's on the screen (ideally a discreet 'ink layer' like interactive whiteboards) and b) whether you can easily change which ipad is being displayed so you can swap to the students' devices. I'm reasonably familiar with iPads but no nothing about Apple TV. I'd be happy to message you an email address if you're in a mood for sharing.

mac? WTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTF

[Anonymous Coward]

YET AGAIN mac is trying to hold your hand and baby through the harsh technical world

Have they ever written a textbook?

[Anonymous Coward]

A decent textbook is not just a bunch of stuff tacked together. There's lots of stuff on the web; lecture notes, videos, Khan Academy, courses. There are not many (speaking in relative terms) free textbooks (if you don't count illegal downloads). Creating one is harder than it looks.

Kinda, but its locked to iBooks...

[Lumpy]

Libre office with the "writer2epub" extension does the exact same thing, except for loading it on the sellers website.

Now if they made it export to ANY ebook format, then I'll take more notice.

Re:Kinda, but its locked to iBooks...

[s73v3r]

How many publishers actually use Libre Office?

Re:Kinda, but its locked to iBooks...

[jo_ham]

Well, it's an ePub inside a zip file with various other things like the videos (H.264) and animations included.

Assuming the other book viewers can be updated to handle the linking to the other materials, there's no reason a converter for these books couldn't be produced.

Re:Kinda, but its locked to iBooks...

[Lumpy]

as many of them that will use iBooks creator.

Re:Kinda, but its locked to iBooks...

[coinreturn]

formerly, as many of them that will use iBooks creator.

Fixed that for you.

Re:Kinda, but its locked to iBooks...

[s73v3r]

I think you're vastly underestimating there.

Future /. Headline:

[CanHasDIY]

Apple Applies for Patent on the Written Word; Cites iBook Author as 'Prior Art'.

Joke, or premonition? You decide.

Re:Future /. Headline:

[toriver]

Sounds like the type of linkbait that would pass muster; the actual article would of course not have anything to do with the headline...

In fact it sounds so good it would be duped the same day!

Hoping it converts easily to .pdf too

[Neil_Brown]

Perhaps it is just me, but I'd far prefer that my digital documents were in PDF than in ePub. I'm coming to the end of a two year masters degree, where all materials were electronic; lectures were podcasts, and all the reading is delivered by download.

Whatever format the literature came in, though — and no matter where else I sourced my reading — my first step was (and is) to convert the document to PDF, since I find these easiest to manipulate across platform. With a PDF, I can annotate and mark up on my iPad, sync back to the server, and then access from my computer, complete with annotations. I can share my documents — with annotations — with fellow students, with a fair chance that they will be able to open them without needing extra software; I'm not so sure about this with ePub.

Re:Hoping it converts easily to .pdf too

[s73v3r]

1). It says that the iBooks Author program can export to PDF.

2). WHY? PDF is an awful format for reading, especially on a device where the orientation can change. PDFs do not reflow text when the layout changes. And you can mark and annotate stuff on most other ebook formats just fine.

Re:Hoping it converts easily to .pdf too

[Neil_Brown]

And you can mark and annotate stuff on most other ebook formats just fine.

Interesting — I haven't come across a way of doing it yet, but perhaps that's because I've always focussed on PDFs. Your comment has made me make a note to look into it again; if there's a better way of doing it, so much the better.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Re:Hoping it converts easily to .pdf too

[Anonymous Coward]

PDFs are good for when you don't want your text reflowing. You want can present the information in the best form that it needs to be in for reading. The iPad can lock the presentation so the orientation won't change while you are reading a document. It is a good format for reading things that actually have layouts that matter or are representations of a printed product such as a magazine or book which might be referenced to.

Re:Hoping it converts easily to .pdf too

[sosume]

2). WHY? PDF is an awful format for reading, especially on a device where the orientation can change. PDFs do not reflow text when the layout changes. And you can mark and annotate stuff on most other ebook formats just fine.

Because I can! I do not want to be restricted to a specific format or brand and when I buy a textbook I can still read it 40 years from now.

Re:Hoping it converts easily to .pdf too

[s73v3r]

I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to do so, and clearly he can. I'm saying why would you want to do so?

And ePub is just as open as PDF. And both can easily be DRMed.

Digital School

[thomasw_lrd]

I'm all for teaching children new skills, but I'm afraid our society (United States) is going about it all wrong. When I was in school, we were at least taught research skills a little. Now my child comes home from elementary school and says she has to look stuff up on the internet. But she doesn't have a clue how to do actual research. I have to show her most of it, and monitor what she is looking at while doing it. It's more homework for me, than for her.

We didn't have the internet when I was in school, now get off my lawn Apple, and teach the kids how to think.

Re:Digital School

[BasilBrush]

Now my child comes home from elementary school and says she has to look stuff up on the internet.

Welcome to the 21st century.

But she doesn't have a clue how to do actual research. I have to show her most of it, and monitor what she is looking at while doing it.

A parent helping a kid with homework. Whatever next?

Re:Digital School

[thomasw_lrd]

I never complained about having to help,I complained they the school expects me to do all the work.

Kindle could be kicken off by iBook.

[Anonymous Coward]

The e-book iBook of Apple maybe "torturing" the e-book Kindle of Amazon.

JCPM

Kills the used books market

[HockeyPuck]

Publishers and authors of textbooks hate used books because they don't get any additional revenue. Which is why you'll see your standard freshman class books change every other year. How does Calc 101 change every year? The author changes one example replacing X with Y, and then can rev the book and get another $45 in revenue.

With an eBook with DRM, they'll make it so while the book might not cost $45, every student will be forced to buy it 'new' every year.

Re:Kills the used books market

[Neil_Brown]

With an eBook with DRM, they'll make it so while the book might not cost $45, every student will be forced to buy it 'new' every year.

Or else you could pay once, and always have the latest version on release, since the incremental costs are much lower in redistributing an updated electronic copy than shipping updated editions of physical books.

I'd certainly be willing to pay more up front if I could have each updated version as it became available, perhaps a small "upgrade" fee for major revisions, just as with the software world. By increasing the ease of digital publishing, I would have thought we would see an increase in innovative models and approaches — the control of the current publishing industry is diminished.

Re:Kills the used books market

[s73v3r]

With an eBook with DRM, they'll make it so while the book might not cost $45, every student will be forced to buy it 'new' every year.

So? That's still assloads cheaper than most "used" textbooks.

Re:Kills the used books market

[HockeyPuck]

While your point sounds good from a consumer perspective, from a publisher/author's perspective it doesn't work out so well.

Even notice that in college often the text books are written by the professor's themselves, and they can dictate that every year the newest version is to be used. Thereby killing off the used market for the previous version. A digital version could make it trivially easy to kill off the previous version with massive profits since nobody has to pay for printing and shipping of tons of paper.

This isn't about some little guy making a Calc 101 book and getting UCLA's freshman class to use it, but about making it cheaper for publishers to get the same content into the student's hands for a lower cost (not necessarily a lower price).

Re:Kills the used books market

[Anonymous Coward]

How does this stop anyone from offering their book completely free of charge and prevent an instructor from using that book?

There's already a lot of other free content available on iTunes University, so who's to say that textbooks need to be any different?

Re:Kills the used books market

[Neil_Brown]

Even notice that in college often the text books are written by the professor's themselves, and they can dictate that every year the newest version is to be used.

Sure — and I think that that makes sense where the newest textbooks will contain more relevant material. (I'm a lawyer, and, depending on the field of study, what might be perfectly good one year may be completely outdated by the next year, although the previous release of the textbook may still have value for academic study of the analysis of the law at the time the book was written.) My professor on my current course emailed his book out in Word format; easily converted to .pdf, so not a problem

Perhaps I'm naive in hoping that increased capability might result in increased experimentation and innovation — hopefully not!

Re:Kills the used books market

[BasilBrush]

Book updates are free on the Apple book store. Just like App updates are.

Finally, a polished ePub-creation tool... for some

[guttentag]

I've been looking for a good way to create ePub files for my iPad for some time now. I use a number of different reference materials I've created for myself and others in environments where you're simply not going to have Internet access, and the iPad has been an ideal tool for this. The iBooks Author app is free, looks well-polished (like Pages and Keynote) and seems interesting with its promises of easily-implemented interactivity. I'm a little concerned about how the HTML widgets will be used... the idea of having content in a book that's always up to date is intriguing... but if you are somewhere you don't have Internet access will it display the last version seen or a 404 Not Found error message?

The app is available now on the Mac App Store, but it's worth noting that it's only available for the Mac and only runs on OS X Lion.

ePub, Kindle, iBooks, ... are not PDFs.

[Anonymous Coward]

The e-book (ePub, Kindle, iBooks, ...) is not PDF.

The big difference is that PDF is adjusted to fixed paper (letter or A4) and for paper-printing, while the e-book is variable-width-height digital paper and can be word-wrapped to the smaller screen resolution.

JCPM

Re:ePub, Kindle, iBooks, ... are not PDFs.

[immaterial]

How did this get modded up? The AC seems to be having an argument with someone that agrees with him, presumably because he didn't follow the thread properly.

Continuing Education market success

[Grizzley9]

Regardless of how well it does in the general education realm, this will be a hit with all those professions that require continuing education credits to maintain your license. My spouse already has to order CD's/DVD's of medical education material from such publishers and many times they will give you an iPad if your order is over $1000. I can see this being a big hit since tablets (iPads) have a huge install base now (30+ million last year, projected 48+ million this year).

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[Anonymous Coward]

But does it export "standard" epub3 files? Then I presume it's only a matter of time before there are readers on a number of platforms.

Next week...

[DaFallus]

Apple reinvents reinvention!

Voting Machines and Textbooks

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only one who senses a similar political influence in the digitization of these two things?

Indoctrination? How we teach People? How people vote? ...granted, textbooks have always been questionable and flawed, but when their printed, they stay put, and you can catch a bad textbook out in the open when it's still a hard copy.

Re:And this is a good idea?

[s73v3r]

Do we really want Apple adding 30% to the cost of text books.

When they limit the cost of those textbooks to $15, absolutely.

Re:And this is a good idea?

[jo_ham]

So current textbooks cost $14.99*0.7 at the moment?

Can you point me in the direction of your supplier please?

Can you read these books on an iPhone?

[HockeyPuck]

From what I can tell you can only read the iBooks "textbooks" on an iPad, but can anybody tell if you can read them on an iPhone?

Re:Can you read these books on an iPhone?

[BasilBrush]

iPhone has iBooks. The format used is ePub. ePub is designed to work on multiple screen sizes.

I don't see any reason why it won't work on iPhone. Although I expect the books will be designed so they work best on iPad.

Re:Can you read these books on an iPhone?

[RandomJoe]

No. When I viewed the textbooks on my ipad there was a note "only for ipad". The sample I downloaded wouldn't transfer to the phone on sync and when I tried searching for the textbooks on the phone they don't even show up.

Reinvent? I think not.

[arisvega]

"Apple Unveils Software to Try and Patend the Textbook"

Re:And this is a good idea?

[blueg3]

The printers and bookstores add a lot more than 30%. So, yes?

Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering Apple's history of censorship on the iPad/iPhone platform, I can't imagine wanting to get locked in to using them for textbooks. They have already banned apps for having news about Android. Can they really be trusted to resist banning textbooks because they talk about Microsoft Windows or Linux?

Re:Censorship

[toriver]

You mean something like the hundred or so books about Linux and Windows that are already in the iBooks Store?

The terms for the iOS store are not worse than Google's for the Marketplace (no porn, no apps for alternate stores etc.)

Where's the support for math equations?

[WillAdams]

Or is one still reduced to including them as embedded .svg graphics?

Well, for one, the ibook textbooks cost $15

[Brannon]

two, there's now a competitive marketplace for textbooks.

Also, who needs these horseless carriages?

[Brannon]

Grrrrh--get off my lawn.

Re:Also, who needs these horseless carriages?

[toriver]

What, didn't you hear about the Stop Toxic Automobiles Act of 1912?

It's not a proprietary format.

[Brannon]

Try again.

Re:It's not a proprietary format.

[Anonymous Coward]

iTunes is highly proprietary.

Academic Journals

[hey]

Academic journals could do with a reboot too.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[sdavid]

That would alleviate some of my concerns, but from the engaged writeup: "Most importantly of all, any book that you publish must be an exclusive to iBooks." (http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/19/apples-ibooks-author-hands-on/#continued) Not too open.

Not going to work for K-12

[spopepro]

While having slick creation tools is a cool thing, this won't end up working for public K-12 schools, at least in California. There's this thing called the Williams Case which requires all schools to have one copy of a textbook for each student in a class. Sure, the case was decided before digital textbooks were a possibility, but this has caused significant problems already with digital textbooks. Schwarzenegger tried with the digital textbook initiative to get things started, and there are even free, CC licensed, editable books out there already (disclaimer: I am an author for CK12). Nobody is using them because of the problems surrounding Williams compliance.

So while tools are nice, the problem is infrastructure and law. Which are, unfortunately, most of the problems those of us in education face when trying to make things better.

At $15/each, bring it on

[Anonymous Coward]

Publishers and authors of textbooks hate used books because they don't get any additional revenue. Which is why you'll see your standard freshman class books change every other year. How does Calc 101 change every year? The author changes one example replacing X with Y, and then can rev the book and get another $45 in revenue.

With an eBook with DRM, they'll make it so while the book might not cost $45, every student will be forced to buy it 'new' every year.

Reports say Apple will be pricing its books at $15. That blows away almost every used textbook I ever found.

If I were back in school, I'd gladly pay $15 for a DRM'd eBook rather than hoping I can get a used textbook that I'll have no use for at the end of the semester, and probably won't be able to sell back because it'll be obsolete.

In Soviet Russia ...

[Anonymous Coward]

In Soviet Russia ...

. . . the conventional paper (with its primitive pencil) is much more worth than the electronic paper, and the price is much lesser, in cents!!!

And it doesn't need battery.

It's the soviet-style, the contrario version of the north-american style that requires short supplied batteries (for less than 2 hours aprox.).

Did you like this scenario?

JCPM: OCRing and potracing virtualized handwrittens, and then XZ-compressing the tarball of uncompressed things (don't use DEFLAT that's the worst).

Re:In Soviet Russia ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... and then XZ-compressing the tarball of uncompressed things (don't use DEFLATE that's the worst).

There is a problem with the compressed pixmaps, they are not uncompressed things.

I often use BMP RLE non-OS/2 pixmaps (if the color-histogram of the images are <= 256 RGB colors, another pixmap format if > 256 RGB colors or ARGB colors) that are the unique that are Firefox-compatible, and i use sometimes ancient PCX RLE (smallest RLE'd XZ'd size still). Both uncompressed images (but RLEd), if XZ-compressed, then they are smaller than PNGs, GIFs, etc.

There's a fundamental problem, uncompressed images but RLEd for XZ-compressed tarballs are not studied depthly in this modern age yet.
They have to "invent" and to "prove" new RLEd-pixmap formats for it.

JCPM

Re:In Soviet Russia ...

[Anonymous Coward]

year 2015+-err: mobile electronic giant Orange's iVideos flateable to pocket. People did say that it was not enough.

year 2014+-err: mobile electronic giant Orange's iMagazines flateable to pocket. People did say that it was not enough.

year 2013+-err: mobile electronic giant Orange's iNewspapers flateable to pocket. People did say that it was not enough.

year 2012: mobile electronic giant Apple's iBooks, people did say that it was not enough.

year 2011: mobile electronic giant Apple's iPad 2, people did say that it was not enough.

It's my conclusion, each new electronic mobile device, people says that it's not sufficient for their needs.

JCPM

Re:And this is a good idea?

[xanthos]

Unless of course that $15 is per student per year. The ebook business model only makes sense when the distribution of the material is restricted.

I was disappointed to find out that I am unable to share a book I bought on my Kindle Fire with my wife because the publisher doesn't allow it. We are talking about something published back in the 90's that I still had to pay $12 for, I can probably find a workaround but I wish I didn't have to.

Bad for writers

[glutenenvy]

Be sure to read the License.pdf before you put any time into iBook Author. The Apple Overlawyers have done a doozy.

Simply put if the Work isn't going to be free then it must only be distributed through Apple. You will need an apple contract. You will need some luck because your Work will have to be approved by Apple as well just like an app. If Apple chooses to censor your Work you do not have any way to send your completed work to any other distributor. You will then be forced to recreate your work in another ebook creator.

If you are a non established writer, you owe it to yourself to use any tool other than iBook Author. Perhaps even if you are an established writer.

It could be a good tool if the Overlawyers release their grip some.

Re:Bad for writers

[ceoyoyo]

HTML5 isn't particularly hard to parse. I'm sure Calibre will have a converter momentarily.

After looking at Life on Earth, I have to say...

[Gavin Scott]

"You're gonna need a bigger boat."

Or at least I hope the iPad 3 comes in a 256GB version, because the first 51 pages of "Life on Earth" weigh in at about 1GB. A fully interactive AND full-length textbook at 19MB/page is going to end up being something like 16GB per book. And the authoring costs for something like this produced through a traditional author/publisher process are going to make the things cost way more than a traditional textbook to produce, so will publishers really be on board to charge people less than the typical $120 or so that they want for the much simpler dead-tree edition?

But this technology looks like it holds great hope for community developed collaborative works, though it's not clear if there's a mechanism for collaboration, or whether the sort of people who would be involved in such a collaboration are going to be willing to buy into a proprietary platform-locked technology. Hopefully Apple's efforts will at least inspire the community to come up with similar capabilities.

G.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[geek]

Mod this way up. This is a major deal breaker. This should infact be illegal, just because you used their free tool to make the final product does not give them exclusivity on YOUR work.

This is so unethical it's scary.

Garage Band

[kodiaktau]

The article from Ars Technica on this subject brings an interesting view point on the 'simplicity' of the tool set. This is all great and wonderful, but I suspect it will end up like other 'easy' technologies in primary and secondary eduction. Companies will think there is a simple path, educators will be dumped into the middle of it and the result will be classrooms of poorly implemented technology. Worse yet will be states that create new focus groups to identify the curriculum needed in the class room and schools will be forced to purchase technology they cannot use.

Educators need open source material that allows them to quickly mix-and-match to meet their teaching needs and the needs of the children. Bringing a new technology to bear can only go so far if the material available to them is still sub-par from an industry publisher. Besides, with 'approved' material being mostly copyrighted, the educators and schools will still have to pay high prices to access the information.

Making it easy to mash-up material is not going to make it more accessible and won't help improve the ability to teach and learn.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[BasilBrush]

iBooks uses ePub, which is an open format.

Probably those that are bought from iTunes Store will be wrapped in DRM. But since YOU are distributing this stuff, there's doesn't appear to be a problem with you using iBooks Author to create an ePub, and giving your students that. AFAIK epub is supported by all the ebook readers, and there are epub viewers for all the desktop OSs too.

Apple effect

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the Apple "effect" now on books.

Projects to redefine the books existed in an open format before: http://www.sophieproject.org/

But Apple do it again, with wonderful tools and UI.. but in a "close" platform.

Enabling Digital Censorship

[sl4shd0rk]

This should save Texas a lot of time next time they want to rewrite school text books in the interest of religion.

Censorship - Now there's and App for that!

http://www.eschoolnews.com/2011/09/14/news-release-district-deploys-1300-ipad-alternatives-to-assure-ayp/

Re:Enabling Digital Censorship

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Should also make it pretty easy and relatively cheap for a student to check out a competing textbook if they are the curious type.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[beelsebob]

Luckily for you, it exports ePub files with some extensions, it won't be long before other tablets support it too.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it sucks that you can't publish to a standard format like ePub3, and that epub3 files are ONLY readable on the iPad, and that Apple won't even let you sell your ePub files in any other manner but through their store.

Wait, none of that's true.

Material Not Allowed

[Anonymous Coward]

Will Apple be looking at the text books to make sure it passes what they feel people should be learning? Will they not allow certain things in the walled garden? I can just see no religion, sure have democratic stuff in one countries books, in another have it censored? , I can see them pushing global warming and how bad Oil is. Will the anatomy books have clothing on everyone? No educational nudity for you! If they stopped a company from having an Android magazine on the Ipad they can stop educators from having things. Especially since they have to think of the kids in all this.

Re:Material Not Allowed

[toriver]

Why not ask the same of any book publisher? "pushing global warming and how bad Oil is" - gee, got an agenda yourself or something?

You can put whatever ePub or PDF you want in the iBooks app if you so desire. Or use any of the multitude of other eBook reader apps.

$15 price cap?

[John.P.Jones]

The whole concept of price capping these books at a low level, putting a text book in the same price range as a fiction novel (I don't believe fiction is price capped, and certainly apps aren't) is insane and downright offensive. Also the exclusivity requirements should be downright illegal.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[arcite]

If the university makes it policy to endorse the iPad and require every student to have one, likely you won't have a say in the matter. Welcome to the future.

Good points

[arcite]

And another thing.... Apple has $60 Billion + in cash, the ebook initiative is going to be measured in decades. We're just coming up with iPad2, by the time we are at iPad 5, we'll be hitting mass penetration with schools. The future only gets better.

entrenched?

[SuperBanana]

They're a bit late to this game, Amazon is pretty entrenched with Kindles already in most people's hands, and at prices which are far more approachable than iPads.

What's entrenched: Apple, with millions of iPhones, iPod Touches, and iPads in the hands of teenagers and college students.

Exclusivity covers .ibook files

[bonch]

"Work" refers to the generated output of iBooks Author. In other words, the exclusivity covers the .ibook file generated by Apple's tool, but you are free to sell the book in other ePub formats on other platforms. Also, you can provide the book for free on your website.

It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[DancesWithBlowTorch]

I just downloaded the "iBook Author" app. It's neat. But it has no cabability to enter maths. Until Apple adds LaTeX support, this is not going to fly in maths and physics at the university level. I do research in applied mathematics for a living. In the texts I write, over 50% of the page space is covered with formulae. That's just the way maths works. I also need special characters (various binary operators, calligraphic, fraktur and blackboard bold symbols, ...), not just Greek letters and sum symbols. There's another catch, which also applies to other fields, not just my personal niche: It's nice that I can add 3D models, videos and all. But creating these kinds of objects takes a lot of time. Time that expert authors don't have. It will be interesting to see how this works out in schools, but I'm not holding my breath regarding graduate academic writing.

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing they'll implement MathType support, like they did with Pages.

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[Anonymous Coward]

But the poor graduate student has plenty of time to do this for the author.

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[ceoyoyo]

It probably already supports MathType.

It's not quite as appropriate for a textbook (but someone could probably make it work) but if you make Keynote presentations you might like LaTeXiT. It renders LaTeX to PDF so you can drop it into other documents. The metadata keeps the LaTeX code too, so you can double click and edit the equation.

Sure, 3D models, videos, etc. take time to make. Some textbooks will have them, some won't. I quite often have multimedia figures that are generated as part of my research that COULD go into a paper (or textbook) if a mechanism existed.

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[bcrowell]

The format is apparently epub 3 with some proprietary extensions. Epub 3 is basically html bundled up in a zip file, and it handles math using mathml. There are various good tools available for converting latex math into mathml. Here is some mathml that I generated by using open-source software to convert latex $x^2$ into mathml:

<p><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML"> <msup><mi>x</mi><mn>2</mn></msup></math></p>

Does the authoring app give you a way to cut and paste this into your book? If so, is Apple's ibook reading software capable of rendering the book correctly? They say they already have some math and physics textbooks for sale in the ibook store, but I don't know whether they're done using mathml or some kludgy workaround like bitmapped images (which is what you have to do in epub 2).

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[mattack2]

It stuck out to me too, but how is that inconsistent?

"It works". "Maths [British] works". "Physics works."

Are you going to complain that "physics" should be always treated as plural too? I took a physics class.

Can't believe I'm defending it. Argh, now I'm probably going to start sticking extra 'u's in words.

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[bennomatic]

Well, one of the things it does support is embedding HTML5 widgets, which implies that Canvas is supported. I know it's not LaTex, but I'm sure there's some library for converting your formulae based on that system (or others) into Canvas.

I did note during the presentation that they showed an Algebra 1 book multiple times, and maybe this is why they don't have anything higher. Presumably, however, if they don't already support mathematical equations natively right now, either there's an easy way to do it, or it'll be supported in version 1.01. Suggesting that they'd make this big a deal about it and ignore everything above Trig (I figure you need the fancy stuff once you start doing integrals, right? So that's be Calc A and above) is a little silly.

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[4phun]

I just downloaded the "iBook Author" app. It's neat. But it has no cabability to enter maths.

Until Apple adds LaTeX support, this is not going to fly in maths and physics at the university level. I do research in applied mathematics for a living. In the texts I write, over 50% of the page space is covered with formulae. That's just the way maths works. I also need special characters (various binary operators, calligraphic, fraktur and blackboard bold symbols, ...), not just Greek letters and sum symbols.

There's another catch, which also applies to other fields, not just my personal niche: It's nice that I can add 3D models, videos and all. But creating these kinds of objects takes a lot of time. Time that expert authors don't have. It will be interesting to see how this works out in schools, but I'm not holding my breath regarding graduate academic writing.

Could yo think outside the BOX for a second?

What is stopping you from making screen shots of your math and including those images in the text as you create your work?

As matter of fact you can even include screen recordings of your reasoning as you write equations. These can be presented as auto run or on demand video in your new textbook.

Look at some of the better textbook content that is already up there for more ideas.

Is it possible that those who master "iBook Author" and who have something great to teach will leap past their peers in prestige and respect?

PROVERB
If you don't want anyone to jump past you, leap first and let the rest follow!

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[QuatermassX]

I worked on Higher Ed digital maths products for 11 years and the display of mathematics has been a problem since the beginning. Tutorial/homework solutions like MyMathLab / MathXL use Flash to serve up the display to multiple browsers. I'd imagine (since I no longer work there), they'll go with a native app solution for anything involving input / computation - but that only works for mobile devices. No idea how one would handle this using the HTML5 set of technologies inside one of these EPUB textbooks.

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[cayenne8]

It just sounds weird..in 'maths'....

I think of it as being singular and plural...like deer.

With physics....I don't think of it as plural, I think of it as the spelling of a singular thing, like someones last name being Stevens.

Re:It's certainly not a killer app for Maths

[Phrogman]

Your not going to be sticking extra "u"s in words, your going to join the rest of the world in not omitting them when you spell. Think of it as correcting a habit of faulty spelling :P

This might just make things cheaper..

[Anonymous Coward]

As textbooks for 1 trimester can cost up to €500 (and i'm lowballing here) this might just force the industry into cheaper prices.

And trust me, it is an industry.

Re:After looking at Life on Earth, I have to say..

[killfixx]

Please, Mod parent up!
It's all well and good to have über-books, but like the parent said, (paraphrased) the production costs will go from hefty to astronomical. Also, like video games, movies, etc...books that DON'T have high production value will begin to be dismissed as "not worth the money". Because of this, authors (the actual creators of the book) will have to spend significantly more time and effort to create the book, while the publishers effort decreases significantly. No longer having to bind and ship books?!!? That'll be a godsend --for the publisher.

Who exactly will be paying for these textbooks? The prices Apple quoted, $14.99US, is ridiculously low for a college level textbook. Average cost of Kno textbooks is $63US (as of Dec 2010).

So, these textbooks will most likely be for primary (elementary) and high school students. Single books, at this level of education, are reused for many years before needing to be repurchased. Even if textbooks were $100US, they would still be a better cost proposition than $15/student/year.

Shenanigans. More money for the publisher. More for the author too, but the author had to spend significantly more to get there, whereas the publisher didn't.

Shenanigans.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[LynnwoodRooster]

That breaks the rules, according to Apple. ANY work you create with their iBooks Author MUST be distributed through iTunes exclusively. You give it straight to your students? You broke the rules...

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[JayWilmont]

The article sloppily refers to the iBook Store as 'iBooks', so what that sentence is actually saying is: books that are published in the iBook Store must be exclusive to the iBook Store. Which has nothing to do with what you can do with books you write using the iBooks Author software (it is your work, of course you can do whatever you want with it, the same as you can a Word document).

Re:After looking at Life on Earth, I have to say..

[Anonymous Coward]

(...) And the authoring costs for something like this produced through a traditional author/publisher process are going to make the things cost way more than a traditional textbook to produce (...)

Explain how.

Jobs wanted the textbooks to be free!

[sl149q]

From: http://9to5mac.com/2012/01/19/apples-textbook-announcement-later-today-new-iosmac-software-rumored/

In fact Jobs had his sights set on textbooks as the next business he wanted to transform. He believed it was an $8 billion a year industry ripe for digital destruction. He was also struck by the fact that many schools, for security reasons, don’t have lockers, so kids have to lug a heavy backpack around. “The iPad would solve that,” he said. His idea was to hire great textbook writers to create digital versions, and make them a feature of the iPad. In addition, he held meetings with the major publishers, such as Pearson Education, about partnering with Apple. “The process by which states certify textbooks is corrupt,” he said. “But if we can make the textbooks free, and they come with the iPad, then they don’t have to be certified. The crappy economy at the state level will last for a decade, and we can give them an opportunity to circumvent that whole process and save money.”

The problem at the local school level is the corrupt process for certification. Jobs viewed this as a way around that. Simply give the books away as part of the iPad.

Re:Jobs wanted the textbooks to be free!

[bugs2squash]

Yes, but the school districts will still determine which books are used via a "certification program". I don't expect the teachers will get any kind of free choice over what they teach from even if all the books are cost-free.

Re:After looking at Life on Earth, I have to say..

[Sez Zero]

"You're gonna need a bigger boat."

Or at least I hope the iPad 3 comes in a 256GB version, because the first 51 pages of "Life on Earth" weigh in at about 1GB. A fully interactive AND full-length textbook at 19MB/page is going to end up being something like 16GB per book.

What if they deliver the books over the air and you have a library like iTunes Match?

You could have your whole library downloaded to a PC or have a mobile device with which you sync books before you travel outside of internet range and that mobile device wouldn't have to that much larger than they are now (max size 64GB for iPad and iPod Touch).

Why: homeschooling works

[mcrbids]

This is *precisely* what I've seen as a father of 6 (yes, SIX) homeschooled children. Normal K12 textbooks are so simply written that they are agonizing to study from. I've generally had far better results simply buying the collegiate "101" subject introductions and having my 14 year old (ish) kids study from that.

Strangely, textbooks seem to get *better* as you move away from the mainstream K-12 books: remedial textbooks are often better when a student is having trouble with a subject, because their focus is on explaining the basic concepts rather than including overviews of minutiae, and college textbooks are better at the other end because they are intended to be actually comprehensive rather than provide summaries with too little information to be useful.

Re:Why: homeschooling works

[Anonymous Coward]

"This is *precisely* what I've seen as a father of 6 (yes, SIX) homeschooled children. Normal K12 textbooks are so simply written that they are agonizing to study from.

I went to college on an partial art scholarship, and nothing I read made me a better artist. I formed ideas from the drawings and pictures shown to me, but books never taught me the techniques I needed to achieve the same results.

No one I've ever known who set a scholastic record ever learned everything they needed from books alone. You learn by achieving, pushing boundaries, just like you do at your normal day-to-day job.

Your children aren't better educated because you've home schooled them, they're better educated because you're taken the time and patience to make sure they understand the subject matter.

Textbooks are not a one person job ...

[perpenso]

There's another catch, which also applies to other fields, not just my personal niche: It's nice that I can add 3D models, videos and all. But creating these kinds of objects takes a lot of time. Time that expert authors don't have.

Your thinking seems antiquated, from many decades past. Textbooks are no longer just text with graphics so simple that the typical author could manage it. Art, graphics and accompanying software often comes from others. I was once part of a team that did the software accompanying a chemistry textbook, we also did some of the videos demonstrating various concepts. Our work would have fit in quite well with this Apple initiative.

Re:And this is a good idea?

[s73v3r]

Unless of course that $15 is per student per year.

As opposed to current textbooks that are not? Especially in college?

I was disappointed to find out that I am unable to share a book I bought on my Kindle Fire with my wife because the publisher doesn't allow it.

This information was available to you before you bought the book. You decided not to do your research.

Funny how the litigation came to mind first

[John.Banister]

So now anyone else who tries to make an electronic textbook gadget or application will be sued by Apple, and textbooks sold for use on Apple's device will have to be approved by Apple, and a percentage paid to Apple (to finance the approval process if for no other reason) on every sale, every year, for every class for every schoolchild. I hope the Chinese make a competing product soon. They seem to be the only ones with the manufacturing ability and the willingness to ignore the IP litigation. The nicer of the Chinese audio players I've seen have always supported the open formats.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[Solandri]

what that sentence is actually saying is: books that are published in the iBook Store must be exclusive to the iBook Store.

Why don't the authors do what Best Buy, Staples, Walmart, etc. do to prevent people from price matching. Carry the exact same product, except the model number and one or two trivial features are slightly different. The iBook store can have the -i version which is formatted in LucidiaGrande like the Macs. Amazon can have the -k version in Caecilia like the Kindle. Insert page breaks so the page numbers match up.

Paper is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Paper is always on. (I hate waiting 25 seconds to boot an e-tablet and calendar app. Long live the 'Palm pilot'.)
Paper doesn't stop working after 4 hours. (Most tablets/phones cannot handle constant use)
Paper can be bookmarked and annotated. ('MS one note' is a great idea badly implemented. See next comment)
Paper can accept any data layout. (The absence of Latex and the more recent MathML on an e-tablet prevents drawing equations and limits mind-maps)

Re:Paper is better

[Anonymous Coward]

The Kindle 4 boots pretty fast and the wake-from-sleep delay is about 3 seconds.
The Kindle 4 doesn't stop working after 4 hours. Battery life is rated at one month with wireless disabled.

Re:Chegg has an eReader as well...

[toriver]

It's not tied to iTunes so there's no worry about DRM.

Yeah, because only iTunes/iBooks use DRM. Adobe Digital Editions do not exist... HTML5? Which variant of that? And is not a web browser a "3rd party app"?

I smell an astroturfer.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[ceoyoyo]

Only if you charge for it.

Re:Finally, a polished ePub-creation tool... for s

[ceoyoyo]

HTML is a markup language, not the web. The HTML widgets are supposed to be self contained interactive bits. I doubt they CAN access the Internet because that would be a) a security risk and b) ugly if your website was down, and Apple doesn't like ugly.

Sorry, but Apple is still evil.

[dskoll]

From Engadget: "Most importantly of all, any book that you publish must be an exclusive to iBooks" (http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/19/apples-ibooks-author-hands-on/#continued)

So arguing about open formats vs. closed formats is missing the point. This is just another attempt by Apple to become a middleman, extract money from creators, and lock more people onto their platform.

Re:Sorry, but Apple is still evil.

[CharlyFoxtrot]

This is just another attempt by Apple to become a middleman, extract money from creators, and lock more people onto their platform.

No they are taking out the current middle-men who are fucking up the business and replacing them with themselves which potentially could mean higher payout for creators because it'll be easier to self-publish and get access to an audience and because the whole process becomes more streamlined. People are already locked in to the incumbents in the publishing industry, and often locked in to their format too (paper or DRM'ed pdf files.)

Will it be useful?

[danbob999]

Will it be useful? I mean, will it be locked-down to Apple products only or if it will have a real use?

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[BasilBrush]

Ah, fair enough. I guess that they are giving the software away. They're not a charity.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[pwn3d]

As far as I can tell looking at the information provided by Apple, there's no legal requirement that free iBooks _must_ be distributed solely through the iTunes store. You can export in the native .iba format to the desktop or email the same file to anyone, which can then be loaded onto any iPad for viewing. Of course, the same can be done with a .pdf of the same work. You're only tied to the iTunes store if you want to make a buck off your book. If you have specifics indicating differently, please provide them.

Now if only it weren't on a closed, niche platform

[Chas]

It might actually stand a chance.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

That would alleviate some of my concerns, but from the engaged writeup: "Most importantly of all, any book that you publish must be an exclusive to iBooks." (http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/19/apples-ibooks-author-hands-on/#continued) Not too open.

Let me repeat that with context: "Most importantly of all, any book that you publish for a fee must be an exclusive to iBooks." There is nothing that says you can't give away the eBooks for free outside of iBooks. http://venomousporridge.com/post/16126436616/ibooks-author-eula-audacity quotes the license thusly:

B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be distributed as follows:

(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute the Work by any available means;

(ii) if your Work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service), you may only distribute the Work through Apple and such distribution is subject to the following limitations and conditions: (a) you will be required to enter into a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary) before any commercial distribution of your Work may take place; and (b) Apple may determine for any reason and in its sole discretion not to select your Work for distribution.

Fuck, why should Apple give away an authoring tool so anyone but them can profit from it by selling it on Amazon? Yet they still allow you to give away any books made with it for free any way you want. What more do you want?

Compromise candidate

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I didn't read the article, but wouldn't the best option be some compromise where you have a standard text book format, readable on all devices, with overlays for additional features (such as animations, hyperlinks etc.) supported on additional devices. They could then fail gracefully to a standard textbook, while adding the bells and whistles for those that need them or had a compatible device.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[CharlyFoxtrot]

It does make a perverse sort of sense: you can use the software for free if you sell your work through us. Its not a bad deal but it sounds completely unenforceable and maybe it's not even valid under the law if someone wants to test it in court. I mean it's not without precedent, there's plenty of software companies that offer their software for free use if used non-commercially but if you do break the license I don't think Apple could come after you for the proceeds of your produced work, only for the license fee of the iBooks Author software. Of course IANAL.

Re:After looking at Life on Earth, I have to say..

[CharlyFoxtrot]

So, these textbooks will most likely be for primary (elementary) and high school students. Single books, at this level of education, are reused for many years before needing to be repurchased. Even if textbooks were $100US, they would still be a better cost proposition than $15/student/year.

But the students get to keep them. So you get to keep the book for revision/reference. I can see that being handy. And $15 for a book is pretty low, that's like the price of a CD.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[dogmatixpsych]

Do what I plan on doing. Put a book together for class and offer it as free. Then, provide all the materials (text, images, videos, etc.) to students without an iOS device; the formatting doesn't have to be as nice.

in-book purchase

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully there won't be such stuff, I Don't want to pay $10 for the problem solution.

Here's the killer catch

[celtic_hackr]

1) Any book you create in Apple's wonderful new book maker can only be sold in Apple's digital storefront. Don't forget to read the EULA.

2) Of course they want you to write textbooks. They could then take over the entire College and University Book Store market.

3) Profit!

for Apple.

Re:Here's the killer catch

[4phun]

1) Any book you create in Apple's wonderful new book maker can only be sold in Apple's digital storefront. Don't forget to read the EULA.

2) Of course they want you to write textbooks. They could then take over the entire College and University Book Store market.

3) Profit!

for Apple.

If a wise person had a problem with this wouldn't they buy Apple stock so they could share in the profits?

iCloud obviously

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything will be stored on your iCloud. Local storage for iPad type devices is never going to go up because they want to the cost of the devices to go down.

use iBook Publisher = make less money

[Anonymous Coward]

Don’t get too excited about all the Apple iBooks self publishing news. As soon as you publish you create and publish your book through Apple’s “iBooks Author” you give up your rights to publish that book through any of the wide variety of popular eBook publishers. I don’t work for this company but my personal suggestion would be to use Smashwords.com. If anyone has tried going through the process of getting an ebook published and up for sale on more then one site then you know that each site has a different system and different requirements that make the entire process long and frustrating for each of them. Smashwords.com helps you easily get your ebook properly formatted and submitted to a ton of the major ebook retailers including: Apple iBookstore, Barnes & Noble, Sony, Kobo and the Diesel eBook Store to name a few. They also sell your ebooks on their own online store and make your ebook available for sale in just about every format that exists and to top it off they do all of that for free!

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

It's probably just as unenforceable as the GPL.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are going to force students to keep buying $75+ books, instead?

Apple is not the innovator in this arena

[KidCeltic]

Kno is a company that started this type of initiative about 2 years ago. Check them out at kno.com.

I'm an Apple Fan Boy and all but....

[Anonymous Coward]

I've download several of the "textbooks" and sadly I was not impressed. Of course these textbooks are the product of the same mainstream publishers who make the crap paper textbooks that created the "problem".

Now I think iBook Author and the whole system could achieve a great deal and the concept of "revolutionizing education" could happen with this: BUT not if the first crop of textbooks are the "standard" for "what to do" or "how to do it".

So what's the problem specifically? Well for some subjects maybe not so much: for "not hard" subjects, the style-over-substance is probably not so bad since there simply isn't much there in terms of knowledge. But for say STEM subjects or high school/college level treatments, these "textbooks" are pure crap. There's just no other way to put it nicely.

• All of the current textbooks are clearly little more than "paper design dropped into electronic form" verbatim
• All of the current textbooks are flawed (even in their paper form) for having style dominating actual substance - the content is profoundly weak in all cases - I'd sooner write my own text than inflict even the paper version on my children
• All of the current textbooks do not apparently have optimized media size at all - loading most images was sluggish on both my iPad1 and iPad2 ("What? JPEG can be tuned for size? Well, what's this JPEG stuff, we used our original TIFFs! Harumph!")
• All of the current textbooks are very hard to read (ignoring the actually lack of much content) - again the designs did not consider the differences of paper vs. electronic very deeply if at all (it's not a "either pictures or words" thing - they just don't know how to structure the documents for electronic at all for BOTH given a new media - more like the textbook vs newspaper kinds of differences in structure).
• From a Tufte information density perspective: F grade, because they are approaching PowerPoint and Soviet propaganda poster information densities.

Now I realize Apple is working with knuckle-dragging Neanderthals in the publishing industry (what fucking part of "electronic is not paper" have these ass clowns not yet learned from the Interwebs?) so they have to start somewhere and hope that someone smarter takes the reins and wipes these idiots out but this first release is still dominated by publishers who "simply don't get it yet".

Re:Finally, a polished ePub-creation tool... for s

[guttentag]

HTML is a markup language, not the web. The HTML widgets are supposed to be self contained interactive bits. I doubt they CAN access the Internet because that would be a) a security risk and b) ugly if your website was down, and Apple doesn't like ugly.

Apple's site specifically states:

HTML Modules
Apple’s widget creation tool, Dashcode, is built into iBooks Author. So it’s easy to create HTML widgets that appear as objects alongside the text. Web-based, dynamically updated data keeps examples current.

The whole point is that your content is always up-to-date if you use this feature because iBooks will pull the information from the Web.

Re:I'm the target for this, and I won't be using i

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

That breaks the rules, according to Apple. ANY work you create with their iBooks Author MUST be distributed through iTunes exclusively. You give it straight to your students? You broke the rules...

Bullshit. "B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be distributed as follows: (i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute the Work by any available means;"

The textbook, itself.

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't it called a tablet?

HTML?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they not just really reinventing HTML?