Why the Raspberry Pi Won't Ship In Kit Form

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Why the Raspberry Pi Won't Ship In Kit Form

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday January 31, 2012 @08:52AM from the you-are-too-clumsy dept.

An anonymous reader writes "A post at the Raspberry Pi blog shows an image containing the device's SoC and memory chip to help explain why the tiny PC won't ship in kit form. Clearly, the chips are so small, and the solder blobs required so tiny, that most people would mess up doing it by hand. Add to that the fact one chip has to sit on top of the other, and if you're a millimeter out, your chips are fried." The post also addresses the use of closed source libraries for graphics acceleration.

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Just an idea... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-31 08:57 · Score: 5, Funny

How about we stop posting a Raspberry Pi story every goddamn blog post and save the talk for oh... I don't know... when the god damn thing actually ships?
I've been throwing my money at the screen for months and NOTHING'S HAPPENING!!!
1. Re:Just an idea... by Samantha+Wright · 2012-01-31 09:00 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Well, we tried that, but we ran out of Apple and Google stories to run during the interim.
  
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2. Re:Just an idea... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-31 09:16 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  haven't seen a bitcoin story in a while
"Most people" would mess this up? by Lashat · 2012-01-31 08:58 · Score: 5, Funny

Should read EVERYONE without the nimble fingers of a child, the steady hand of a special forces sniper, and the sharpest soldering iron this side of the sun.

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BGA packages are intimidating by vlm · 2012-01-31 09:02 · Score: 5, Informative

BGA packages are intimidating, even to a guy who's been hand soldering other SMD packages since around/before 1990 (that being me)
Plain SMD is easy to do by hand, even the 0402 stuff.
The thing with BGA is its an alignment problem. Some entrepreneur will likely invent a magic clamp that holds the chip in perfect registration to the PCB, at which point it'll be dirt simple to solder BGAs.
I donno where the "if you're a millimeter out, your chips are fried" stuff comes from because thats /.ed. I've done analog microwave RF work where that is actually true. That is not possible on a logic level board. "oh noes, /ce has been grounded, whatever shall we do?" Well just fix the solder bridge and stop whining. Its not like you just shorted out a 20 amp 24 volt power supply thru the bias/bypass network of a microwave FET amplifier, nothings going to blow up on a digital ckt.

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1. Re:BGA packages are intimidating by allanw · 2012-01-31 09:11 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I don't understand why people even want a kit at all. The assembled version is already ridiculously cheap due to high volume. There's tons of surface mount parts that would be annoying to even package for people. Why ruin a perfectly good small form factor to make it a little easier for a few people who want to solder it themselves? Also, it would take you hours of your own time assembling it. Why don't people design their own hardware instead?
  The much bigger problem is the lack of documentation on accessing the GPU (which is a more modern design and pretty powerful compared to the older ARM CPU core they're using)
  Another issue is that it is very hard to debug an assembled board. If one of the pads on the BGA doesn't make contact it's nearly impossible to diagnose. A power to ground short would be very difficult to locate. They can't use their automated test jig to sort out defective parts or errors in assembly, etc. And then the manufacturer will be prompting tons of support requests by people. It really isn't worth the effort.
2. Re:BGA packages are intimidating by vlm · 2012-01-31 09:57 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I don't understand why people even want a raspberry pi at all. The apps on the itunes app store are cheap. Why ruin CS and IT to make it a little easier for people who want to write their own programs? Also it would take you hours of your own time to write and compile your own software.
  Come on man, its a hobby. When a dude puts together a 1000 piece puzzle you don't pee all over it by claiming you can buy a poster of the same picture and thats a better choice because you don't have to put it together... That kind of misses the point.
  The fun fun fun of kit assembly isn't in working a 16 hour shift assembling it with chinese music on pandora, eating a couple rice grains and some tea while wearing a political prisoner uniform, and pretending your boss beats you for not working hard enough. Unless you like that kind of stuff. Whatever floats your boat. Anyway the fun of kit building is kit bashing weird stuff from different eras to massively customize the project to what you want. Something I've been up to on the bench recently: I started with a fairly modern microwave local oscillator kit. Then I swapped out the crystal because I need to work on a different frequency for a completely different ham radio frequency band. Then I smooshed in a completely different voltage regulator circuit; ugly as heck but I don't care; I want/need to run off 24 volts instead of 12 volts (long story there). Didn't want to buy a modern MMIC amp for the board because I had some old 80s era tech mmics laying around so I redesigned the bias ckt for the correct voltage drop and forward current (exactly as complicated as lighting a LED, just stuck a different value resistor in; didn't wanna build a constant current supply, at least not this time). So far so good. Also added a stylish power LED so I can tell my regulator hasn't shut down from overheating..... yet.
  I think it would be fun to completely redo the I/O on a raspberry pi, at least to begin with that is the most obvious thing to do. Also some stuff I simply don't care about, I would not solder on. Not gonna do the composite video thing, not gonna waste time soldering it on. Probably would rip out the audio stuff figure out how to directly wire a software defined radio directly to the board. If the first thing in the TX chain on the SDR is a giant attenuator, and the last thing on the Pi audio out is a high powered headphone amp, simplicate it and toss both replacing both ckt sections with a piece of wire. etc.
  
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  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Re:Assumptions by SomePgmr · 2012-01-31 09:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

The only assumption I saw was that most folks would botch assembly due to the teeny smd tolerances. It seems pretty reasonable to me. I don't know a lot of people with reflow ovens or hands that steady. And at $25 & $35 for the assembled models, I don't know why people would really want to.
Re:Assumptions by viperidaenz · 2012-01-31 09:26 · Score: 5, Informative

It would probably cost more to package the components for a kit than to assemble the thing anyway, so your kit would not only cost more, it would probably never work anyway.
Your reflow oven would need the correct temperature profile, you'd need a solder paste stencil, you'd also need fresh solder paste of the correct type - because it has an expiry date and should also be kept refrigerated.
Re:Assumptions by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-31 09:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

So, anyone who does it successfully would achieve a rare accomplishment, through hard work, diligence, and skill.
And for those ten to twenty people out there? The phrase I'm looking for is "not a significant market".
DIY kit by mmontour · 2012-01-31 09:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

If you really want a kit you can buy an assembled board, de-solder all of the components, and *make* a kit.
1. Re:DIY kit by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-31 10:22 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  It's a kit kit. Brilliant!
Re:Assumptions by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-31 09:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

The kind of person who can solder BGA are also usually the kind of people who can acquire parts and produce PCBs.
Re:Worthless as a media streaming device by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-31 09:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

So you're saying if you care about video quality you should spend more than $25?
The response from the RPi forum by AdamHaun · 2012-01-31 09:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/592#comment-10077

liz on January 31, 2012 at 9:17 pm said:
Indeed – we have to use an x-ray machine with microscopy to ensure all the pads are connected properly. And NOBODY has one of those at home.
This post has just been Slashdotted. http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/01/31/203229/why-the-raspberry-pi-wont-ship-in-kit-form Plenty of commenters there appear downright insulted that we don’t think they’ve got ovens, masks, and an x-ray machine at home, along with the dexterity of a TINY TINY PIXIE. (They don’t have any of those things, but they’re still insulted.) Sometimes I really hate Slashdot.

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Re:Assumptions by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-31 10:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

Really? You don't think the bad publicity they might get if lots of people report "I bought a kit and it failed" is a sufficient reason for them to refuse?
Stop whining by Required+Snark · 2012-01-31 10:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

If you don't care about the Raspberry PI, don't read the article or post about it.
If you think it gets too much attention on Slashdot, don't read the article or post about it.
If you think it should be a kit, design a similar system and only sell it as a kit. The people behind the R. PI didn't just sit around and whine, they did something. Don't just complain about it.
If don't like the closed source drivers, then reverse engineer them yourself. Or get together with the people who want an kit and write their software. Do something beside bitching.
If you think that assembling a kit at this scale is easy, set up a web site that shows how it can be done. Sell a kit of supplies for the process. Don't just emit hot air.
You people act as if the motto of Slashdot was News for crybabies, Stuff that sucks

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