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Google Begins Country-Specific Blog Censorship

Posted by samzenpus on from the not-for-your-eyes dept.

bonch writes "Google will begin redirecting blogs to country-specific URLs. Blog visitors will be redirected to a URL specific to their location, with content subject to their country's censorship laws. A support post on Blogger explains the change: 'Over the coming weeks you might notice that the URL of a blog you're reading has been redirected to a country-code top level domain, or "ccTLD." For example, if you're in Australia and viewing [blogname].blogspot.com, you might be redirected to [blogname].blogspot.com.au. A ccTLD, when it appears, corresponds with the country of the reader's current location.'"

43 of 250 comments (clear)

  1. Blogger only - it seems by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This only works toward reducing the trustworthiness of Blogger as a blogging platform.

    Blogs dealing with sensitive topics in certain countries will simply go elsewhere. Yes that elsewhere runs the risk of being blocked by that
    country, but at least it will be that county doing the blocking, not Google.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    1. Re:Blogger only - it seems by stanlyb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your Ass Has Been Redirected To Your Country Specific Jail. Be happy that you are not redirected to some China's jail.....

    2. Re:Blogger only - it seems by EdIII · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your Ass Has Been Redirected To Your Country Specific Jail. Be happy that you are not redirected to some China's jail.....

      Not to be crude, but if my Ass had to be redirected towards a jail I would rather it be a jail with a small average penis size. Literally easier to handle. Just being pragmatic...

    3. Re:Blogger only - it seems by msobkow · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Google is doing the blocking so they can do business in the nations requesting the block.

      Despite American arrogance, all companies are required to abide by the laws of the customer's nation if they do business there.

      You can't blame Google for following the rules! Sorry, but that's just the FACTS OF LIFE.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    4. Re:Blogger only - it seems by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You can't blame Google for following the rules!

      Sure you can. The Nuremberg defense is not a defense.

      Personally, I think the US needs an antitrust exemption for companies who want to collude strictly for the purpose of refusing to comply with, or otherwise opposing, foreign legislation that would violate the US First Amendment.

    5. Re:Blogger only - it seems by marcosdumay · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nice answer. But if they were doing that because of China, theyd have acted earlier. By the way, they already closed their Chinese subsidiary, thus Google isn't subject to China's law anymore.

      The fact that they started doing that just after SOPA and PIPA threatened to become laws just passed over your head...

      --
      Rethinking email
    6. Re:Blogger only - it seems by jc42 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Despite American arrogance, all companies are required to abide by the laws of the customer's nation if they do business there.

      Except, of course, in the US itself, where fines imposed on corporate "persons" for violating laws are typically much less than the corporation has earned from the violations.

      At the extreme, I've read a few studies that compared the fines for things (bad drugs, contaminated food, etc.) that killed people, and reported that the per-casualty fine was typically less than $500, often under $100. You and I would be jailed and/or executed for selling things that kill people; corporations usually just get what amounts to a slight surcharge on their taxes.

      Of course, you are free to believe whatever you like about how companies are required to follow laws. But being fined a few thousand bucks for a violation that raked in millions isn't much of an incentive to be law abiding.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    7. Re:Blogger only - it seems by fightinfilipino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      as trite as it sounds, "i was just following the rules" and "i was just following orders" have often been lame excuses covering up horrible abuses against humanity. actively enabling the stifling of free speech is a horrible abuse.

      i recognize the issue is much more complex than that, but then, so should you.

    8. Re:Blogger only - it seems by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What about US legislation that would violate the US First Amendment?

    9. Re:Blogger only - it seems by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Helping a totalitarian regime pretend like they allow free speech by allowing only speech they approve, furthers their goals. Google is playing the roll of Uncle Tom or the Jewish police in the Nazi ghettos. When they allow Syria to censor speech, what argument will they have when the US government asks them to censor speech? Do you really think that's not coming? The world is slipping into a very dark place right now, and every concession that providers like Google make, will be looked upon with shame by future generations.

    10. Re:Blogger only - it seems by ohnocitizen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know that putting it in caps doesn't make it true, right? It isn't arrogance to expect human rights to be respected when you do business, its ethics. So yes, we can blame google for staying in a repressive country, and following the rules. If they want to enact country specific censorship, they could block out that country's access to the site with "your country does not support basic human rights like freedom of speech."

    11. Re:Blogger only - it seems by Wandering+Idiot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm as concerned with the US slipping towards totalitarianism as the next guy, but for the love of god please shut the fuck up with the stupid FEMA meme.

    12. Re:Blogger only - it seems by RevEngr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Despite American arrogance, all companies are required to abide by the laws of the customer's nation if they do business there.

      You can't blame Google for following the rules! Sorry, but that's just the FACTS OF LIFE.

      I think what you call arrogance is what a lot of people would see as idealism, or at least, being consistent with the ideals of an open internet. I, for one, don't understand why Blogger has any obligation whatsoever to any foreign government. I am probably unrealistically naive, but i still believe in an internet that transcends nationality, and I'm afraid I don't see the exchange of services or information over the Internet as the necessary equivalent of 'doing business' in any traditional sense.

      Some governments may choose to try to block access to Blogger if they don't like the content, which is sad and has undoubtedly already happened. The response of Blogger and the rest of the Internet community should be to work to restore that access. I don't pretend it's an easy problem, but this action to move to ccTLDs looks like a dangerous compromise.

      We're all very familiar around here with the history of the Internet and the important role governments have played in its development, but it just seems to be going backwards to start drawing political boundaries over this beautiful mess we've created. We have something here that can bring us to a better world than we've been able to achieve by carving up the planet into geopolitical territories; we shouldn't be selling it short to placate entrenched interests.

    13. Re:Blogger only - it seems by msobkow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The idealism only goes as far as lining American pockets.

      Witness SOPA, ACTA, etc.

      The fact that the media companies have the American government in it's pocket through lobbyists is irrelevant to the rest of the world. We don't care why your government is abusive; that's an internal problem for the US. What we care about is that you do not (as a government) act anywhere near the ideals you espouse on the international stage.

      And as soon as the American people wake up to the fact that the American government doesn't give a damn what they want, only what the lobbyists want, the sooner there might be change in that global perception of the US. Take back control of your OWN government before you try to tell anyone else how to run theirs.

      Take off those rose coloured glasses. You can't see shit with them on!

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    14. Re:Blogger only - it seems by Serpents · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only thing I can say is: Good, maybe the people living in countries with censorship will finally move and do something about it. It has happened before, you know

    15. Re:Blogger only - it seems by dnaumov · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The notion is ridiculous. If you have a website that's publically accessible from all over the world, then by your definition you "do business" in every single country of the world. The idea that this means you must now adhere to laws of every single country able to access the website is blantantly insane.

  2. So much for... by grub · · Score: 5, Insightful


    So much for Do No Evil. I'm sure it will be spun into how this makes Blogger a better experience for everyone.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:So much for... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, it sounds like it might have the effect of eliminating a lot of blogs, so I'd say it has a good chance of improving the experience.

    2. Re:So much for... by spidercoz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're not doing evil, they're just enabling it.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
    3. Re:So much for... by interval1066 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the motto should "Do no evil, unless it interferes with our business model."

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    4. Re:So much for... by CowTipperGore · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you had bothered to RTFA, you would see

      [M]igrating users to local domains will help promote the freedom of expression while allowing the flexibility to abide by local law.

      Anyone can use google.com/ncr (NCR stands for “no country redirect”) to see the original page without geographical redirection.

    5. Re:So much for... by GodInHell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When it includes censoring people who do not live in those countries so that the plebs who do cannot be told how much their nation sucks.

      Worse, this begins the process of actually fracturing the internet into sub-nets for national use. If I want to reach a global audience I'll have to make sure I don't do it in a way that will offend anyone in a country with bullshit over-pious litigators in government (looking at you Aussies) or a totalitarian regime bent on rewriting history (Hi China) or some asshole country with fucked up copyright and patent laws (hello U.S.A.).

      So -- you can have a global blog, so long as you only blog about how awesome consumerism and particular Chinese products are.

      -GiH

    6. Re:So much for... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the motto should "Do no evil, unless it interferes with our business model."

      The second part is always implied in everything a company says.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:So much for... by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Blogger

      Or, as it's now called in North Korea, "Your Attempt To Access Imperialist Site Has Been Noted By Glorious Leader."

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    8. Re:So much for... by lee1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Google censors results in the US in response to political pressure, and lies about it. No laws involved at all.

    9. Re:So much for... by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So much for Do No Evil. I'm sure it will be spun into how this makes Blogger a better experience for everyone.

      Actually, yes, yes it will. Instead of being forced by law to remove the content from everyone's view or be forceably blocked by that country (or sued), Google is allowing everyone else to see the censored content, and only blocking it where the law demands it.

      Respecting the law of a country is not "evil". It may not be the right thing to do (depends on the country and law at hand, certain laws/governments are unjust and should be protested), but it is also not evil.

      Oh, and you can still see the censored content anyways (www.google.com/ncr), so, there is that, also.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    10. Re:So much for... by Artraze · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Define "not actually in", because after a quick search:
      http://www.google.com/intl/en/jobs/locations/

      We see they have an office in Australia, which was the domain used in the summary. And quite a few around the globe, of particular note is China, which is so often the center of discussions like these. Also, Thailand, which I believe was brought up with regards to Twitter and blocking posts critical of their king.

      Are you suggesting that because their corporate HQ isn't there that "they" aren't there? Or are you suggesting that they don't _need_ to be in those locations, and so could pull out?

      Finally, I'll note that you said "enforcing questionable laws". Don't you mean "evil laws"? I mean, if obeying the law is evil, then surely that law is evil, right? Or does it only become evil when enforced by Google because they aren't entire present where the law matters?

      I dunno. This always gets so confusing. Like, why isn't Google evil for taking down ads for Canadian pharmaceuticals at the request of the FDA? Actually, I seem to recall people were saying they were evil for allowing the ads in the first place. Maybe it's that HQ thing again... That "good" is upholding American (oh, like specifically the USofAmerican) laws and ideals and "evil" is upholding the laws of other countries in those countries because their HQ is in the USA?

    11. Re:So much for... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but at what point did *obeying the law* become *evil*

      when the law is wrong, that's when!

      do I really need to invoke a godwin, here? or cite US history from the civil war era?

      confusing 'law' with ethics, much?

      and no, we don't expect google to be ethical. we stopped believing that, what, five or more years ago? it did not take long for the google shine to wear off and for us to all realize they are a self-serving company, just like all the rest.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    12. Re:So much for... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Informative

      "google: not dictators but #1 *with* dictators"

      (apologies to the simpsons for ref to their '#1 with racists' joke)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    13. Re:So much for... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're not doing evil, they're just enabling it.

      "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

      Well, they're not doing nothing, but I think he had something in mind other than helping evil along the way.

      Also, if the metaphorical road to hell is paved with good intentions, then where do you think bad ones might lead?

      Bottom line is this action is evil since it serves no other purpose than to allow evil. That is in no way neutral.

      But this is not news. Google abandoned any pretense of sticking to their motto long ago.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    14. Re:So much for... by AtomicJake · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Google is not censoring anything. They are not stopping freedom of speech.

      They ARE redirecting blogger blogs through ccTLDs.

      Correct. But why is a user outside of the USA redirected to a ccTLD, if he asks for "blogger.com"? More and more corporations are doing this redirection and it sucks big time. I, and probably most people, know how to write "google.de"or "google.fr" - if I write google.com, I want the same page as users in the USA. And the same is true for amazon, dell, hp, blogger, twitter etc.

    15. Re:So much for... by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which is preferable, and who's gonna pay collateral damages in latter two cases?

      It's pretty obviously preferable that they take down the whole website. Then people notice. There is a large hole in the Internet where the site used to be, things still link to it, and people realize that and start looking for ways around the block. Then many people have sufficient incentive to take countermeasures and the censorship is thwarted.

      If you allow only the target of the censorship to be removed, maybe nobody notices, or more people conclude it isn't worth working around because they don't need to read solely the things the government has classified as unprintable. It makes the censorship more effective, because only the target of the censorship is removed and nothing more, which substantially reduces the incentive for that country's people to fight it.

      If the government indulges in web censoring, what makes you think it would even as much as say "sorry" to a luckless SoB who lost his site along with whole blocked hosting domain?

      When there are only a small few people who are disadvantaged, certainly. That's how they get away with it -- if the government screws over one person at a time, everybody else goes on with their lives with insufficient incentive to work together to help the one victim. If a government screws over everyone at once by taking down major websites, it's a lot more likely they'll have to answer for it.

      Obviously some countries are more resistant to public pressure than others (e.g. Iran, China), but even they are not totally immune -- and even if they don't actually change their position and remove the blocking in the short term, at least people will have more incentive to bypass it and make it ineffective. They're more likely to ultimately give up trying to block information if their attempts to do so are ineffective.

    16. Re:So much for... by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The Ministry of Search - Googleplex in leetspeak - was startlingly different from any other object in sight. It was an enormous outstretched structure of glittering steel and glass. From where Winston stood it was just possible to read, picked out on its white face in elegant lettering, the three slogans of the Corporation:

          CLOSED IS OPEN
          CENSORSHIP IS FREEDOM
          SURVEILLANCE IS PRIVACY

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    17. Re:So much for... by Asic+Eng · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apart from the censorship angle, this redirection stuff is pretty annoying when traveling. Just because I'm in Korea this week, doesn't mean I can read Korean. I didn't enter the URL for the Korean page either, so why do they insist on giving me what I didn't ask for?

  3. Completely Misleading by RazzleFrog · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you read the article Google is doing this so when a blog is censored in one country it isn't censored everywhere and you can always access the blog by appending ncr (no country recognition). This means they found away AROUND the by country censorship. Talk about spinning a story.

    1. Re:Completely Misleading by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Once censorship starts it doesn't ever stop. Next up ISP blocking. You are watching the creation of the new internet piece by rotting piece.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    2. Re:Completely Misleading by Artraze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Once censorship starts it doesn't ever stop.

      Sez you. Remember back when "Schweddy Balls" was pushing the limit of what was allowed on TV? Remember when McCarthyism made certain _ideas_ essentially illegal?

      Censorship is done at the behest of people or their leaders. It's something that comes and goes and people decide what should be visible or not. Sure _sometimes_ it's forced upon a society, but that's usually (and really by definition) the result of a totalitarian government. But really, isn't that the real problem?

      When a people decide they don't want guns, or drugs, or prostitution, or gambling, or certain forms of expression they pass laws against them. So you think "censorship" is stupid and wrong because it doesn't hurt anyone. Good for you. I think that most of the aforementioned laws are stupid and wrong and they hurt people more than they help. But you know what? Sometimes people get hurt by things, and they pass laws against them because they feel that the law hurts them less. Yeah, it sucks, but it's not Google's fault, nor is it their duty to change it. This censorship crap is no more "evil" and "slippery slope" than Google, say, not selling booze in Islamic countries or whatever. You don't agree, I don't agree, but if the Germans, for example, are made extremely uncomfortable by Nazi stuff, should Google tell them to piss off when asked to block it?

      That actually would be rather mean of them, I think...

    3. Re:Completely Misleading by bonch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're citing absurd examples like selling booze in Islamic countries or banning Nazi content that makes Germans uncomfortable. Government censorship is far more sinister, silencing criticism of leaders and quieting stories of the government abuses or the punishment of political dissidents. It's also not something that "comes and goes" like a summer breeze. Overturning an all-powerful government structure is extremely difficult and often bloody. We're talking about people's lives here.

      If this wasn't Google, it might not be considered as huge an issue in relation to other companies' foreign censorship compliance, but there are two contributing factors: 1.) Google's dominant presence on the web, and 2.) Google's public embrace of concepts like openness and freedom, seemingly when it suits them. Their power and ideology give them a greater moral responsibility; that's the drawback of being #1 in a given industry.

    4. Re:Completely Misleading by Artraze · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Absurd how?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Germany
      "Membership in a Nazi party, incitement of hatred against a segment of the population (Volksverhetzung) and Holocaust denial are illegal in Germany. Publishing, television, public correspondence (including lectures), and music are censored accordingly, with legal consequences that may include jail time."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition
      "Saudi Arabia completely bans the production, importation or consumption of alcohol and imposes strict penalties on those violating the ban, including weeks to months of imprisonment, and possible lashes."

      So.... Wut? They're absurd because... they don't ruffle your ideological feathers?

      Are you honestly trying to say that Google should be part of a process that you admit is "extremely difficult and often bloody"? If we're talking about people lives here, why don't we talk about the lives of their employees in these countries, who could be arrested under some kind of 'conspiracy to undermine public welfare' or what have you?

      And the real question is, why Google? Why not you? You could run a tor node. You could host simple blogs; it's quite cheap. And you even have the advantage over Google because you don't have any connection to these countries and those don't have to worry about your employees being arrested.

      Or right, sorry, you said already:
      They're big and have the greater responsibility to enforce your morals.

  4. Alternative? by JanneM · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Anybody have a recommendation for an alternative blogging platform? Preferably one hosted in Europe by a non-US company, and one where it is reasonably easy to migrate from Blogger.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  5. Sinister, just like Twitter by bazmail · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is a very sinister move in my opinion, as the only way we used to get to know about posts being censored in foreign countries is when they disappear from our radars in more free countries. Now the only way we'll know is by running some sort of massively networked diff program, comparing views originating in censored countries with ours.

  6. Redirect may be avoided? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    TOA says:
    >> If you would like to see a non-affected page, you can direct to google.com/ncr (NCR stands for “no country redirect”),
    >> which places a short term cookie that temporarily prevents geographical redirection.

  7. I wonder what is being censored in the USA? by RocketRabbit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder what Google is censoring in the USA? Could be that they have strict orders to keep whatever it is secret, so nobody will even know about it.

    And before anybody jumps down my throat and vaporishly wails "Oh but that COULDN'T happen in AMERICA!" please direct your attention to this post : http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/9/30/215-section-act-patriot/ and senator Wyden's recent comments on secret interpretations of the Patriot act.

    We are really down the rabbit hole here folks.