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Apple Loses German Court Bid To Ban Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1N, Nexus Phone

Posted by samzenpus on from the and-the-hits-keep-coming dept.

chrb writes "Apple has failed to get a patent ban on Samsung's Galaxy Tab 10.1N and the Nexus phone in Germany. Presiding Judge Andreas Mueller stated, 'Samsung has shown that it is more likely than not that the patent will be revoked because of a technology that was already on the market before the intellectual property had been filed for protection.' The patent in question covered list scrolling and document translation, scaling, and rotation on a touch-screen display. This news follows the recent Appeals court ruling that upheld the original Galaxy Tab 10.1 ban."

46 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple patents technology that they didn't invent and tries to stop samsung nexus and fails

    1. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is widely known that Apple stole the design of the iPhone from LG.

    2. Re:Apple by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      both Apple and LG could have gotten their inspiration from the same source.

      ...so could Samsung.

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In this case it seems very implausible that Apple copied the design, given that the LG Prada was announced the 12 of December 2006 and the iPhone was announced and demonstrated to the public on January the 9th 2007. So for them to have copied the design, Apple would have had to redesign the phone in less than a month.

      It is far more likely that they are similar looking because there are only so many ways to design a touch screen phone in a "minimalistic" way, which clearly both LG/Prada and Apple were going for.

      The Similarities between the LG Prada and the iPhone should, however, be used as evidence against Apple when they claim others have copied their design. If it is possible for two phones to be as similar as those two phones by coincidence, then Apple should have no case against the Samsung Galaxy.

    4. Re:Apple by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have to go with this position (above) simply because to be minimal, there are few ways to accomplish that for any given purpose. But you know, the same goes for Samsung's Tabs... minimal, and not too many ways to be minimal without looking like other minimal devices of the same type.

      But you know, with all that said, the fact that the word SAMSUNG is in bold, right there on the front leave little question as to whether or not it can be mistaken for an Apple device. This is just ridiculous.

      I'm going to need to patent the shape of a ball and then sue every maker of balls for design infringement.

    5. Re:Apple by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      I'm going to need to patent the shape of a ball

      I've already got the square ball, the pinball, the beach ball, the bowling ball and the brand name "Baal".

      Oh, and I'm currently in court trying to enforce my patent on the pair of balls that you hang on the back bumper of a pickup truck. When I was 3 I had a pair of those hanging on the back of my Big Wheel. That's how badass I was.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to LG, the design was first presented in September 2006 actually.

    7. Re:Apple by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, but they didn't. And Apple sued anyway.

      Presumably just to be assholes - why compete on features/price when you've got money to burn on lawyers?

      --
      No sig today...
    8. Re:Apple by Dishevel · · Score: 2

      Show me someone who thought they were getting an iPhone and ended up with a Samsung because they were "confused".
      I'll wait.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    9. Re:Apple by horza · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They got the court injunction to prevent Samsung sales in the crucial run up to Christmas. Mission accomplished. They don't care that it's now thrown out of court.

      Phillip.

      --
      Property for sale in Nice, France
    10. Re:Apple by erroneus · · Score: 2

      The claim Apple is making is that Samsung's devices are too similar to Apple's and might easily be mistake for Apple's when consumers are making purchasing decisions. And when Apple presented evidence, they did so in the form of deliberately doctored images where, among other things, they removed the brand markings from the Samsung device. Had they not done so, they would have had a harder time making their claim don't you think?

  2. Motorola bans Apple from selling Ipads and Iphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Motorola bans Apple from seling Ipads and Iphones and Germany :D

    Sorry, german only: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Motorola-erwirkt-Vertriebsverbot-fuer-iPhones-und-iPad-1427712.html

  3. Good to hear by msobkow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's good to hear the courts are not letting Apple leverage a patent that's expected to be invalidated in order to damage a competitor's business. Samsung did, after all, modify the "N" design to get around Apple's patents that applied to the 10.1, so they did their due diligence.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  4. who wins? by Noughmad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not Apple. It's not Samsung.
    The lawyers however...

    --
    PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    1. Re:who wins? by toutankh · · Score: 2

      I rather have the impression that everybody loses except for the lawyers. Remove the lawyers and everybody else is happier: no big corporation trolls any other and have to pay/waste time for it, users get their products without the stupid bans, and products are cheaper because companies have less expenses.

    2. Re:who wins? by toutankh · · Score: 2

      I honestly and in all subjectivity doubt it. Here in Australia where the Galaxy tablet was banned I see iPads every day out in the street, in the bus, etc. I saw only one Galaxy tab in 8 months however.

    3. Re:who wins? by rtfa-troll · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In some sense both Apple and Samsung win. Small startup companies coming into this area now have to explain how they would take on either of these companies in an IP lawsuit and / or get licenses which will be so expensive their products become uncompetitive. The entire group of major technology patent holders is a cartel working together to steal from consumers by increasing prices and reducing the ability of the market to change faster than they are able to keep up with. With patent lawsuits like this running around they can afford to reduce R&D and just make money together with more limited competition.

      Sure, Apple and Microsoft are deeply evil, but Samsung is a at least bit evil too, and Google is building up a huge load of patents whilst failing to give a clear statement and guarantee to protect free software companies, so even they are having evil effects. This is a bit like American Politics. Just because one side is bad, doesn't mean the other side isn't bad too. You don't become fair and balanced by asking a wolf and a hyena whether the sheep wants to be eaten.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    4. Re:who wins? by Calos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hard to benefit from the publicity when the product receiving publicity is, well, banned.

      How do the bans work, anyway? Just sale in the country, or is it illegal to buy overseas and ship one in?

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    5. Re:who wins? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are plenty of other devices where Apple could have sued over the same patents, but they don't ...

      ... Except for Motorola. And HTC. And ...

      to create a design that is actually _better_ than the iPad

      You mean, add unnecessary elements to a touchscreen device? Like Apple's advisor recommended "Make it not flat, or not rectangular, or not clutter-free front surface".

      This minimal design is where tablets were headed for a long time. Even Samsung's Q1EX tablet was already basically this, with corrections for thickness limited by technology at that time.

    6. Re:who wins? by BlackCreek · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > Fact is that Samsung created a tablet that looks very similar to an iPad, and that similarity was intentional. Other tablets do _not_ look that similar.

      A rectangular screen with a black border around it. Do you actually believe Apple invented the design of "screen with a black border around it"? How many digital photo displays are "screens with a black border around it"? Oh, perhaps you meant "a rectangular screen with a black border around it and a single round button"?

      FYI, All older Samsung TVs (I own one) were "rectangular screens with a black border around it with a single round button in the middle". Or you are going to say that as the tablets have a touch screen, any other design without a touch screen won't apply?

      Do you also believe that mobile video calling was invented by Apple when they released the "iphone with a video camera in the front"?

    7. Re:who wins? by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

      What companies like Apple spends on lawyers I spent on armaments. Since then I now own an aircraft carrier (full complement of aircraft and fully manned) and I can invade a small country, and of course give the appropriate treatment for lawyers :)

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    8. Re:who wins? by basecastula+ · · Score: 2

      Black market win

    9. Re:who wins? by andydread · · Score: 4, Informative
      .

      Fact is that Samsung created a tablet that looks very similar to an iPad, and that similarity was intentional. Other tablets do _not_ look that similar. And it is obvious that Apple doesn't like it. Whether Apple has a case legally or not doesn't matter that much; the message sent is "if you try to sell devices that we think are copying our devices then you'll end up in court, and we make it as inconvenient as possible for you". There are plenty of other devices where Apple could have sued over the same patents, but they don't because the _reason_ for suing is not the patents, but the similarity of the product design.

      As far as "Other tablets do _not_ look that similar" goes Apple would beg to differ.
      Yes apple is anti-competitive in the fact that they will drag you into court over trivial similarities. They took the very common flat slate concept and filed a patent on it. One thing they are very good at is using the ideas and concepts of others and claiming them as their own while convincing the faithful that it was all their idea. Prior art be damned. Keep swallowing the talking points of Apple's PR dept. though don't let the facts get in the way.

    10. Re:who wins? by poetmatt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since when did google ever have to give a statement to what they're doing outside of what they already did?

      They said "we will not sue people with our patents". And have they ever sued with their patents, offensively?

      no.

      Apple sure as hell has. Samsung sure as hell has fought back. Barnes and Noble fought back.

      Google isn't like American Politics, that's exactly why every "evil" company in the US hates them and has tried to shut them down continually, via corruption/bribery/lobbying/outright lies.

      So yes, they made a statement, and you're a fucking troll.

    11. Re:who wins? by BlackCreek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Fact is that Samsung created a tablet that looks very similar to an iPad, and that similarity was intentional. Other tablets do _not_ look that similar.

      A rectangular screen with a black border around it. Do you actually believe Apple invented the design of "screen with a black border around it"?

      You're dodging the question... He wasn't talking about whether Apple invented that design. He said that Apple created the iPad, and that Samsung created a tablet that looks highly similar to the iPad, more so than any other tablet. Those are all true, regardless of what you think of the novelty of the patent.

      The question is whether the physical design of a tablet such as Apple's deserves to be a "registered design". Apple has claimed to own the design concept of a tablet with a "thin screen with a rounded black border". My point is that that is downright bullshit, there were tablet concept designs that looked just like that, and I believe that the fact that there TVs and photo displays that looked just like that are pertinent.

      Try googling for the suggestions they made in the US about how a tablet would have to be NOT to infringe their design. The answer was hilarious. IIRC the judge in California told Apple to take a hike.

  5. Any surprises here? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just like in the SCO vs World case, we all know what the eventual outcome will be - it will just take time, thats all, before Apples worthless patents to be deemed as such in all courts. Patenting Black-Rectangular-with-rounded-Corners-computing-Device was never going to turn out well.

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    1. Re:Any surprises here? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This isn't a "Black-Rectangular-with-rounded-Corners-computing-Device" patent suit it's a "Hey-look-touchscreens-can-also-do-this" patent suit.

    2. Re:Any surprises here? by siddesu · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No surprise at all. But this is the goal of Apple in the first place. The smartphones and the tablets are like perishable goods -- the pace of new product development is fierce, so delaying a product by a few months has a huge impact on the bottom line. And that is what Apple is shooting for with patents that are at most borderline bogus.

      This and a ruthless, magical marketing gives them a not insignificant edge, the quality of their products notwithstanding.

    3. Re:Any surprises here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's about much, much more than that

      LOL, right, it's also about "The color(s) gray, silver and black is/are claimed as a feature of the mark" and "Color gray appears as a rectangle at the front center of the device [the screen]". So much more specific decorative design elements!

      Kinda looks like you don't even read what you link to.

      Second page especially shows the absurdity of "copied wholesale" claims, those are god damn icons of god damn generic ideas, and not even very alike at that. The only icon with similar _feel_ is call icon, but then it's most generic of them, not that many ways to do 'green and raised handset for "accept", red and hung up handset for "reject"'.

    4. Re:Any surprises here? by Rosy+At+Random · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, I looked at that and hoped to find much, much more. Alas, I found much, much more of the same.

      Most of the stuff they patented should be flat-out unpatentable. There were a few instances, such as in choice of icon colours, were I felt Samsung seemed to be needlessly imitating Apple's, but on the whole Apple seem to be trying to patent every nook and cranny they put on the damned iPhone. Some of these things are almost dictated by design constraints and natural analogues from prior OS, and some things are just part of a natural design trend towards minimalism.

      I just wish everyone would stop trying to sue each other. It's god-damned ridiculous,

      --
      Would you like a slice of toast?
    5. Re:Any surprises here? by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's about much, much more than that:

      Oh, bullshit. Talk abotu cherry picking... for every feature that's listed as 'similar' there I could list another one that isn't.

      Apple:
      Home button is round
      Doesn't have camera on front
      Doesn't have 'back' and 'menu' buttons

      Samsung:
      Home button is rectangular
      Has camera on front (top right)
      Has 'back' and 'menu' buttons

      etc.

      The profile is even better - it's nothing like an iPhone from the side. But you missed that.

      --
      No sig today...
    6. Re:Any surprises here? by rtfa-troll · · Score: 5, Informative

      This tired old rounded corners whine again?

      It's about much, much more than that: http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-1-Hardware-Design.html

      It's an interesting link; I've seen similar before but not thought about it much. When you look at it it really looks like Samsung is copying Apple. Very interesting is the change in the unboxing experience. It looks completely convincing.

      Then you remember your first Nokia N95; a product released before the iPhone was available. Look at the Nokia unboxing experience which happens to be captured on the internet. Suddenly the audacity of Apple in claiming this as their own takes your breath.

      Nothing under the sun is original; this is outrageous.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  6. As an nexus owner... by BlackCreek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As the owner of a Galaxy Nexus bought from Amazon.DE and as a person that makes a living writing software, I am delighted to hear that Apple (or any other company) will have to make their 'buck' by making awesome products, and will not be allowed to curb competition because some idiot allowed them to patent 'list scrolling', or "whatever-shit-we-did-before BUT NOW ON A TOUCH-SCREEN MOBILE PHONE".

    1. Re:As an nexus owner... by dave1791 · · Score: 2

      There should be a moratorium on gesture patents. Right now, we're in a state where we can't say that any new developments would be non-obvious to an expert. You could make a list of a million gesture controls over a couple of beers.

  7. The only advantage iPhone users have over Android by phonewebcam · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is that they get to see what's coming in their handsets a year from now by looking at the current top end Android models on sale. I hear NFC is undergoing the usual transformation from "iPhone users don't need that" to "our amazing innovation" in the next model, the same way multitasking, speech recognition, widgets and usable notifications did.

  8. Re:The only advantage iPhone users have over Andro by dave1791 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wait! iOS 5 has usable notifications? You could have fooled me!

  9. Wow.. by Adult+film+producer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apple is now a Patent Troll... have they so given up on innovation that they can on live on shady backroom deals and the charity of a judge?

  10. Re:The only advantage iPhone users have over Andro by slydder · · Score: 4, Funny

    omg. you live with them don't you? they got you as you were going through the terminal after your flight landed. What's your name I'll try and contact your parents for you so they can come rescue you.

    --
    IT Admins Group: Where you decide the content
  11. Re:Motorola bans Apple from selling Ipads and Ipho by Xest · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, it's almost as stupid as patenting a rectangle with rounded corners and getting something banned over it!

  12. Battle of Waterloo: Won on Playing Fields of Eton by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Technology Battles Today: Won in the Courts . . . not in the labs.

    The first step in creating a fantastic, new tech gadget . . . is making sure all the legal issues are worked out, even before you start developing and idea. If some court is going to block you down the road, there is no point in investing in a new project.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, lawyers are now the first troops at the front of technology development!

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  13. Re:The only advantage iPhone users have over Andro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well there's iBooks of course.

    Google Books.

    And iTunes.

    Google Music.

    And a much better ecosystem generally.

    Getting an app rejected because it competes or might compete with a future Apple app is awesome.

    Well there's regular OS updates.

    Just like Android.

    And no malware.

    And no choice.

    No fragmentation

    And no customization.

    Siri

    Aran
    Eva
    Evi
    Iris
    Omega
    Risi
    Skyvi
    Speaktoit Assistant
    Vlingo

    It comes down to whether you value hardware features/tinkering or content/UI/general slickness more.

    Android offers all of that.

    Android is a copycat OS. To pretend otherwise is stupid.

    Except the Android OS predates iOS.

  14. Defensive publication by tepples · · Score: 2

    You could make a list of a million gesture controls over a couple of beers.

    Then make such a list, post it to the Internet, and get it into Wayback. This is the start of defensive publication.

  15. How many older phones are on 2.3, let alone 4.0? by tepples · · Score: 2

    Well there's regular OS updates.

    Just like Android.

    One- and two-year-old phones are far likely to get an operating system update if they're "iPhone" or "Nexus" brand. Any other brand of Android phone is at the mercy of the often reluctant manufacturer. The iPhone 3GS was introduced in the second quarter of 2009 but still runs the latest iOS. How many phones from that era run Android 2.3 "Gingerbread", let alone Android 4.0 "Ice Cream Sandwich"? See previous Slashdot stories about abandonment and excuses.

    Except the Android OS predates iOS.

    In what sense? The first Android phone to be sold was HTC Dream, in the fourth quarter of 2008. The first iPhone to ship with the App Store was the iPhone 3G, introduced four months earlier.

  16. Re:Motorola bans Apple from selling Ipads and Ipho by Walter+White · · Score: 4, Informative

    English coverage at http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-03/motorola-mobility-wins-second-german-ruling-against-apple.html

  17. Re:Motorola bans Apple from selling Ipads and Ipho by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, it's almost as stupid as patenting a rectangle with rounded corners and getting something banned over it!

    So you didn't read Apple's patent claims, just what was said on Slashdot. Congratulations.

    With that in mind, what do you think of the case of the original iPhone looking very much like the LG Prada, which was clearly the first design taking phones in the "iPhone design direction"? LG wasn't so litigious as Apple, so it haven't been tried in courts around the world, but the "rip-off" is at least on similar level as Samsung and iPads. Should iPhone have been banned?

  18. Re:The only advantage iPhone users have over Andro by danbob999 · · Score: 2

    iTunes alone is a sufficient reason for not using the iPhone. I prefer a phone that I can plug in any PC and copy files too. No software or drivers to install.