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Lake Vostok Reached

First time accepted submitter Cyberax writes "After 30 years of drilling and weeks of media attention the Antarctic underground lake Vostok has been reached by Russian scientists (translated article). Deep drilling in the vicinity of Vostok Station in Antarctica began in the 1970s, when the existence of the reservoir was not yet known. Scientists are beginning paleoclimatic studies and further exploration of the lake will continue in 2013-2014."

50 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. We all know what will happen by Trilkk · · Score: 5, Funny

    Expecting a lone husky to be seen escaping the facility in 2 days time.

    1. Re:We all know what will happen by Dave+Whiteside · · Score: 2, Interesting

      except we're more like to infect and kill anything down there :(

      --
      who where what when now?
    2. Re:We all know what will happen by Heed00 · · Score: 4, Funny

      "I know you gentlemen have been through a lot. But when you find the time...I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!!"

      --
      Thought thinks itself.
    3. Re:We all know what will happen by ledow · · Score: 2

      Or we could just teach the Norwegians to shoot straight, and maybe take some helicopter flying lessons.

    4. Re:We all know what will happen by MrHanky · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You'd need to sober them up first. Good luck with that.

    5. Re:We all know what will happen by Captain+Hook · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or we could just teach the Norwegians to shoot straight, and maybe take some helicopter flying lessons.

      Bullets would have had no effect anyway. It was a lifeform based on completely separate cells which work together and could be assigned to any role needed.

      Bullets would have torn a hole in the macro shape, maybe killed a few hundred cells at the impact point, but the remaining cells would have just knitted the hole back together. The only effect bullets would have had on what was shaped like a dog would have been the momentum of the bullet causing the dog to get knocked around.

      It's why they had to resort to fire because you needed to kill the each cell individually. Poison might have worked as well.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    6. Re:We all know what will happen by MrHanky · · Score: 2

      Spoken like a true programmer. Evidently you've never had drunken sex.

    7. Re:We all know what will happen by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm assuming you are referring to Ulrich Thomsen? There is one scene where he is speaking danish rather than norwegian, but we Scandinavians tend to understand each other pretty well, so this is not a goof per se. It might very well happen in real life as well that a Danish person speaks danish to a Norwegian; in fact it happened to me less than two weeks ago, and I had no problem understanding her. The rest of the Norwegians are well-known Norwegian actors, who speak norwegian correctly.

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
    8. Re:We all know what will happen by Xaoswolf · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm waiting for the albino penguins and shoggoths myself...

    9. Re:We all know what will happen by chill · · Score: 3, Informative

      The 1982 classic John Carpenter movie The Thing.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    10. Re:We all know what will happen by gmhowell · · Score: 2

      It's a movie about some... thing... Can't recall the title.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  2. By extraordinary coincidence... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It turns out that the microbiological conditions of ancient lake Vostok are strikingly similar to those of early 21st century drilling mud.

    The timeline altering implications of this discovery will keep scientists busy for decades!

    1. Re:By extraordinary coincidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      As far as I know they have gone to extreme lengths to avoid contamination of the water. I know they stopped just before reaching the water to let the hole freeze behind them for one thing.

    2. Re:By extraordinary coincidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      How is that extreme? Did they fill the hole with Mountain Dew?

    3. Re:By extraordinary coincidence... by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Was there ever any compromise on their drilling procedure?

      My understanding was that the Russians were using a method that was likely to cause contamination, despite pleas by western agencies for them to either a) hold off until better tech was developed or b) funding was established to allow them to use (donated) already-developed tech from the west that would be less contaminating?

      I'd guess since this is happening roughly according to their original schedule, the answer is "no" which would be tragic.

      --
      -Styopa
    4. Re:By extraordinary coincidence... by Cyberax · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nope. The lake had almost been reached in 1998 but drilling was stopped to ensure that there would be no contamination. Several years were spent to devise a good solution for the problem of contamination. So the drilling has been resumed only in 2005 when the international community decided that it's safe enough.

      They're using a well filled with kerosene and freon to keep bacterial contamination away. Also, they're using sterilized parts without grease to minimize places where bacteria could hide.

    5. Re:By extraordinary coincidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Was there ever any compromise on their drilling procedure?

      My understanding was that the Russians were using a method that was likely to cause contamination, despite pleas by western agencies for them to either a) hold off until better tech was developed or b) funding was established to allow them to use (donated) already-developed tech from the west that would be less contaminating?

      I'd guess since this is happening roughly according to their original schedule, the answer is "no" which would be tragic.

      According to the Google translation of the article the drilling was put on hold while the technology was developed at the St. Petersburg Institute. Western nations approved the Russian proposals after that at a 2003 meeting.

      So to answer you, the answer is "yes" which is not tragic.

    6. Re:By extraordinary coincidence... by wiedzmin · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm not worried, Bruce Willis will save us.

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
    7. Re:By extraordinary coincidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Umm... you may want to read the controversies about this on Wikipedia's page on Lake Vostok.

      Everyone's been screaming at the Russians that they're contaminating everything by using freon and kerosene in the borehole to keep it from freezing over again. 60 tons of that crap has been dumped into that borehole. TONS. They have literally filled the bore-hole with kerosene.

      The Russians' defense is that when they break through, water will rush up, re-freeze, and plug the borehole to avoid any contaminants getting in. How it doesn't leech through the ice I don't understand. Ok, maybe freon and kerosene have particles that are larger than the gaps in crystaline structure ice and are incapable of melting it on their own... I have no idea. But I also don't understand how they plan to get a water sample... or any sample from in there, if they're expecting water to rush up and plug the hole Would they not have to literally bore through that re-freezing, shove their gathering tubes through the opening, into the water, in order to extract said water or a bottom-surface sample if they want that?

      One way or the other, I'd need to hear a damn clear explanation as to how all those chemicals will never manage to get to the water inside.

    8. Re:By extraordinary coincidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      a) the method was tested and shown to not contaminate the water, that's why drilling was allowed to proceed
      b) they'll probably extract kerns of ice after freezing.

      Russian news site says:

      The lake might be absolutely sterile. At this moment, drilling passed 173 meters through the ice formed from the lake water. But examining lake kerns has shown no more than 2-3 cells per milliliter, and even those cells could have gotten into samples while transported or in the lab

  3. Now, the Predators come by newsman220 · · Score: 2

    According to the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095193/Lake-Vostok-Russian-scientists-drilling-alien-Antarctic-lake-buried-20m-years.html) this morning, the Russian team has been out of contact for a week. An American scientist says they're probably just busy. Busy incubating aliens, more likely.

    1. Re:Now, the Predators come by Cyberax · · Score: 4, Informative

      That was a result of mis-translation. The team is in constant communication but there were no official news releases.

    2. Re:Now, the Predators come by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Funny

      The team is in constant communication

      But all they've been communicating is "Send more ugly-bags-of-mostly-water".

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    3. Re:Now, the Predators come by jfengel · · Score: 2

      In an ordinary news source, I'd call it "mis-translation". For the Daily Fail, it's more likely a deliberate misreading for the purpose of sensationalism. The line between that and an outright lie would is unclear, and both are the Daily Fail's daily bread and butter.

  4. Re:I am not sure the yeti will like that :) by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    There was an episode of Northern Exposure where they tapped an ancient glacial lake and found that the water made women extremely horny. So there could be an upside here.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  5. Obligatory. by IronHalik · · Score: 2, Funny

    Suddenly, deadly bacteria/frozen alien/frozen robotic alien/frozen goo-like mind control alien.

    1. Re:Obligatory. by gmuslera · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or worse, sheeple!

  6. Re:I am not sure the yeti will like that :) by localman57 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Huh. I can see the "I Tapped That at Vostok" T-Shirts and Bumper Stickers now...

  7. Considering climate change... by larys · · Score: 5, Funny

    and how so few people/countries seem to be taking lifestyle-changing action against it, they wasted 30 years when in a few years or so, they might have the ice melt enough for them to reach the lake by just tapping on a thin sheet of it with the back of a pencil...

  8. Stargate? by HiChris! · · Score: 5, Funny

    Did they find the Stargate yet? or the weapons platform?

    1. Re:Stargate? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      which would explain the lake. the heat from the ZPM's would be keeping the ice melted around the facility.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Stargate? by Lanforod · · Score: 2

      ZPM's don't produce heat unless powering a heat source. Thought that'd be obvious from the way they can be handled with bare hands.
      No reason to believe it/they would be powering anything right now.

  9. Re:I am not sure the yeti will like that :) by Abreu · · Score: 5, Funny

    "In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming..."

    Until some pesky humans drill into his cool jacuzzi...

    --
    No sig for the moment.
  10. Re:Melt by ledow · · Score: 2

    13,100 feet to the lake.

    Been digging since 1974. That's 344 feet a year, or a foot per day. Hell, *I* could have dug quicker than that!

    Or maybe they just had lots of problems, costs, setbacks, etc. associated with a 13,000 foot-long drill through a substance that nobody has ever drilled 13,000 down through?

  11. Re:Melt by Mente · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bruce Willis could have drilled it in a matter of hours.

  12. Re:Melt by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Funny

    Only to find Chuck Norris waiting for him at the bottom.

    --
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  13. Something not mentioned - by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How do we know this lake isn't connected to an underground river that could easily wash modern biology in and out?

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    1. Re:Something not mentioned - by pz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Or, just as short-sighted (and more common) is the idea that somehow that bit of matter got stuck in time and has remained impervious to the forces of random genetic mutation and evolution through the intervening years. Same idea comes across when we land on some asteroid, or explore some new bit of Mars, and loudly declare that it is a sample of matter left over from the birth of the solar system, or some such huey, as if it popped through a portal in time. The forces of nature still act on such things, even if they've been isolated from more large-scale interactions.

      Lake Vostok might (we think) have been sealed off for a very long time, but that doesn't mean it's a glimpse into the past, but, rather, a glimpse into a different version of the present.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    2. Re:Something not mentioned - by Lashat · · Score: 2

      I agree with your assesment with one addition if i may.

      " a glimpse into a RADICALLY different version of the present."

      --
      For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
    3. Re:Something not mentioned - by thrich81 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On the other hand, the rate of change of some systems is significantly slower than for many other systems. The obvious example is comparing the surface of the moon to the surface of the earth -- the earth had at least the same cratering events as the moon but the moon still displays a surface similar to what it was 2 billion or more years ago. Yes the surface of the moon is the present day surface but unlike the earth it is little changed and so is a good replica of the moon in the past. Geologically the same goes for those asteroids, Mars, etc. and biologically for Lake Vostok and many other isolated biological environments -- there is less competition and influx of new "innovations" from the larger outside world on the organisms there so the biologists say that the living things there have changed less than those in more open environments. The present is not the past but some places in the present are a lot like the past, indistinguishably so.

    4. Re:Something not mentioned - by Verteiron · · Score: 4, Informative

      The goal here is not to see any living organisms there as a portal to the past. It is to see any organisms who have manged to survive in an airless, water-filled lake buried under 3 miles of ice for millions of years. It is fairly likely that, if there are any living organisms there, they're going to have evolved in some pretty interesting ways.

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    5. Re:Something not mentioned - by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      " a glimpse into a RADICALLY different version of the present."

      No, that's Las Vegas.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:Something not mentioned - by Provocateur · · Score: 2

      The forces of nature still act on such things, even if they've been isolated from more large-scale interactions.

      Yes, but being isolated like that, it would never have heard of the force of nature known as Justin Bieber. And would have to search hard for a piece of undergarment to throw at it.

      --
      WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  14. Re:Melt by stjobe · · Score: 4, Informative

    13,100 feet to the lake.

    Been digging since 1974. That's 344 feet a year, or a foot per day. Hell, *I* could have dug quicker than that!

    Or maybe they just had lots of problems, costs, setbacks, etc. associated with a 13,000 foot-long drill through a substance that nobody has ever drilled 13,000 down through?

    It's also in the middle of the Antarctic, just about, and almost 900 miles from the Scott-Amundsen base at the South Pole. It's where the coldest temperature on earth has been measured, a whopping -128F (-89C). I'd love to see anyone dig a foot *that* day! :)

    --
    "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
  15. Re:Melt by stjobe · · Score: 4, Informative

    How do you keep a hole 13,100 ft deep melted when the average temperature in summer is -30C (-22F), and in winter -65C (-85F)?
    The warmest it ever gets is about -12C (10F) - that's a record by the way, the warmest ever measured at Vostok station.

    It's not exactly a resort, you know:

    The warmest recorded temperature at Vostok is -12.2 C (10.0 F), which occurred on 11 January 2002.[10]
    The coldest month was August 1987 with a mean temperature of -75.4 C (-103.7 F) and the warmest month was December 1989 with mean of -28 C (-18 F).[9]
    In addition to the extremely cold temperatures, other factors make Vostok one of the most difficult places on Earth for human habitation:
    * An almost complete lack of moisture in the air.
    * An average windspeed of 5 m/s (18 km/h) (11 mph), sometimes rising to as high as 27 m/s (97 km/h)(60 mph).
    * An acute lack of oxygen because of its high altitude at 3,488 meters (11,444 ft).
    * A higher ionization of the air.
    * A polar night that lasts approximately 130 days, from mid April to late August,[13] including 80 continuous days of civil polar night (i.e. too dark to read, during which the Sun is over 6 degrees below the horizon.)

    (source wikipedia)

    --
    "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
  16. Re:Melt by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 2

    They almost reached the lake in 1998 ...stopped to find a way of drilling without contaminating

    Try this :

    Go to the top of Rees Peak in the Rockies near Flagstaff, Arizona
    Arrange the temperature to never get above -10C and go down to -80C
    Do not get supplied regularly, and not at all in Winter
    Strip all the moisture from the air
    Increase the Wind speed so that it always blows at a minimum of 10mph and often goes up to 60mph ...and see how quickly you can drill ...

    --
    Puteulanus fenestra mortis
  17. Re:Melt by sackbut · · Score: 3, Informative

    They were using kerosene originally to keep it from freezing. I do not believe the ice temperature is as cold as the ambient air either. Snow is a decent insulator. Ice maybe not so much though. The permafrost in the Arctic does not extend down 13000 feet (although it is not pure water). There must be some radiant heat from the earth. Generally temperatures increase 3 degrees C for every 100 meters deep.

  18. Retail by Thuktun · · Score: 2

    How long until we get Vostok(tm) bottled water in the grocery store?

  19. Re:What about... by holmstar · · Score: 2

    Well, they were keeping the well thawed using kerosene, which is lighter than ice and water, so presumably the weight of the ice sheet would force the water up the well, pushing out the kerosene until it reaches equilibrium, which would be somewhere beneath the surface of the ice sheet. Not sure exactly at what depth that would be. I'll let somebody else do the math.

    Dissolved gases could certainly come out of solution as the column of water rises up the well. There have also bee suggestions that the water is supercooled and prevented from freezing only due to the high pressures involved. If so, then it would freeze as it rises and probably wouldn't make it all that far up the well before freezing solid.

  20. Re:Melt by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    You certainly saw a different version of "Earnest goes to Jail" than my kids did.