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Should Next-Gen Game Consoles Be Upgradeable?

MojoKid writes "Historically, console add-ons that boosted the performance of the primary unit haven't done well. Any attempt to upgrade a system's core performance risks bifurcating the user base and increases work developers must do to ensure that a game runs smoothly on both original and upgraded systems. The other reason is that a number of games rely on very specific hardware characteristics to ensure proper operation. In a PC, swapping a CPU with 256K of L2 for a chip with 512K of L2 is a non-issue assuming proper platform support. Existing software will automatically take advantage of the additional cache. The Xbox 360, on the other hand, allows programmers to lock specific cache blocks and use them for storing data from particular threads. In that case, expanding the amount of L2 cache risks breaking previous games because it changes the range of available cache addresses. The other side of the upgrade argument is that the Xbox 360 has been upgraded more effectively than any previous console; current high-end versions ship with more than 10x the storage of the original, as well as support for HDMI and integrated WiFi. It would also forestall the decline in comparative image quality between console and PC platforms."

7 of 348 comments (clear)

  1. First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    No

  2. Re:inchorent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Bifurcation means the splitting of a main body into two parts.

  3. Yes, they should be PCs. by Karmashock · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Next Gen console is an inexpensive PC capable of playing the newest games with reasonable quality.

    The whole console paradigm is based on two qualities.

    1. Price. Consoles cut corners and lack certain qualities that PCs have and as a result have great game performance at a reduced price. This is entirely possible with PC hardware today. If MS builds their own PC from the ground up to be a gaming machine then there's no reason why it can't support windows and have superior game performance.

    2. Ease of use. PCs have been hobbled for years by being too complicated for their own good when it comes to games. More sophisticated gamers have no problem with this but it can be an issue with many. Take a cue from Apple and lock down these console replacement PCs by default so the casual users doesn't mess them up. For one thing, restrict multitasking by default as that harms game performance. If people want to have lots of background processes running while they play their game then give them a setting that lets them disable the feature. But by default, just as with typical consoles, have them devote all their attention to the game when it's running. Everything else is suppressed. Also as MS would be releasing these machines there would be no driver confusion since all the systems would come with the exact same hardware installed in them.

    This would also break down the barrier between Xbox users and PC users. This barrier is not in MS's interests. If the Xbox and the PC play the exact same games then no other console is going to be able to compete with them. Exclusive titles just for the xbox that don't get released on the PC don't help the xbox... they hurt the PC.

    As an additional aside, the consoles and MS especially need to get serious about producing a REAL media center. Something like XMBC only better. XMBC is pretty impressive for an open source community built project but MS, Sony, Nintendo, or Apple can do better. Stop dicking around. Stop trying to restrict what people can and cannot play on the machine. This only hobbles the utility of the system and ensures it won't catch on. Who gives a damn about windows media center edition? Who ever cared? It was a flop right out the door because it was half baked. Produce a complete product and release it. We want it.

    Oh, and MS... consider dropping a version of windows on a phone that can run desktop applications. These smart phones are vastly more powerful then the machines that ran windows 3.1 . I think some have to be faster then those that initially ran windows XP. If you can't squeeze a version of windows 8 on one of those phones with a custom touch UI... then you're fools. A system that had that sort of capability would be vastly more useful then any other device on the market.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    1. Re:Yes, they should be PCs. by Sir_Sri · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unlikely, consoles will become dumb terminals to an onlive service eventually, or it will be a software layer you run on PC sure, but then you're into a whole different architecture. I'm not sure who you're talking about 'you guys' at? Yes I'm a graphics and AI programmer, but I don't run the industry. Having to build for 6 or 7 different targets is a bloody pain in the arse (and the windows version is really multiple platforms at at once). Where do I get 6 or 7 from? Even if it's a different game I want to reuse as much code as possible in each game, so I might be building on 4 consoles (PS3, Xbox2, Wii, Wii U) handhelds (PSP, PSP2, DS), and PC. But of course most shops aren't developing on all of those at once, and you will probably have dropped development for the Wii and PSP by now, but not necessarily both. If you wanted to make it into a PC it would have to *be* a PC, with all of the perils that come with that, and the article in general is about what would happen if you could upgrade consoles as we think of them today. Right now I have 900 mb of RAM being used, 688 by Opera and 212 by my media player because it's busy doing something to the TV show it just recorded. Steam is, for some reason using 90 MB of memory, I'm not really sure what it's doing that takes up that much space (it's not downloading anything). So wait, how much memory do I have to use again? Well this machine has 12 gigs of ram. So 10 gigs probably. I can count on that much on every PC right? Lol. I can't even count on 1 GB of ram on a PC. Sure, the OS can page stuff out, but now I have much trickier performance requirements. Do I show load screens all the time? How do I 'wait' for that memory to get there? These are all solvable (and solved problems), so I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just a lot less efficient. Easier to program for in some ways, but when I know precisely how much memory I have, how fast it is etc. I can do a lot more with it than just dumping some stuff in an unknown data structure in video memory that will hopefully optimize itself. Now you will always be able to make this argument. Specialized software to solve a specific set of problems, with clearly defined constraints and specific hardware can always be more efficiently used than a general purpose machine, that's sort of the point of specializing it. A sedan is never going to be a truck, no matter how much you do to increase it's carrying capacity. That doesn't mean specialization is great, it would be preferable if we could do all of our computing on one box, but well, it would be an expensive and difficult to manage box at the moment.

      It really isn't as simple as you're making it out to be unfortunately. A good abstraction layer works because when you build for a particular console you know it will behave one way, another console another, and then the PC is a mess. The abstraction layer hides the implementation of those optimizations from other parts of the system, but they're still there. The PC has its advantages of course (a crapload of memory, sometimes extremely powerful CPU's and GPU's), but it's still a mess. It's exactly as you say, you write a driver and a universal driver that interfaces with abstraction through to the hardware. that's called directx and openGl basically (and the windows graphics subsystem). And they're very much less memory efficient compared to what you can get on crappier hardware on consoles assuming you write the code yourself well.

      Jason Gregory (of Naughty Dog) actually has a book on "Game Engine Architecture" that covers a bit of this stuff. Sony has its own custom library rather than OpenGl for a reason. Specifically, for the PS3 libgcm http://www.ps3devwiki.com/files/documents/-%20SONY%20PS3%20SDK%20Documentation/graphics/libgcm-Overview_e.pdf and What sony calls "Edge" developed by their various tech groups. I'm not sure if there's something newer as well.

      It's not just drivers, actually drivers isn't really a problem. Keeping them updated, that's really a separate probl

  4. Re:It doesn't matter by SpazmodeusG · · Score: 3, Informative

    citation please?

    Can't find exact install base, but The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask required the Expansion Pak and it alone sold 3million copies. So 3 million at an absolute minimum to get a ballpark figure going. Plenty of other games highly encouraged people to get it too.

  5. Re:No, because that's not the point by Guspaz · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not even true anymore anyhow. There are so many different classes of Apple hardware that a developer has to target that it's not a homogenous platform anymore. You've got three different resolutions ranging from 480x320 to 1024x768 (not even the same aspect ratio), two incompatible instruction sets (ARMv6 and ARMv7), two incompatible and fundamentally opposite graphics APIs (OpenGL ES 1.x and 2.x, which is kind of like DX7 fixed function versus DX9 programmable), varying amounts of CPU cores, clockspeeds, amounts of RAM, screen sizes... Third-party iOS apps are running on three different device families, and that's only going to broaden when Apple's iTV product comes out.

    All told, there are currently twelve different product lines running iOS (with further variations within a product line, such as amount of flash), all with different capabilities, all with different OS version support. For each of those twelve devices, you have to support at least two major OS versions, and potentially a few sub-versions. The feature grid on the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_iOS_devices) should underscore how non-homogeneous the platform is.

  6. Re:No, because that's not the point by Andor666 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Even more than 4 years... XBox 360 is almost 7 years old, as it was unveiled in may 2005