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Journalist Arrested For Tweet Deported to Saudi Arabia
New submitter cosmicaug writes with an update to yesterday's report that journalist Hamza Kashgari had been arrested by Malaysian police acting on a request conveyed from the Saudi government via Interpol. Now, says the BBC, "Police confirmed to the BBC that Hamza Kashgari was sent back to Saudi Arabia on Sunday despite protests from human rights groups. Mr Kashgari's controversial tweet last week sparked more than 30,000 responses and several death threats. Insulting the prophet is considered blasphemous in Islam and is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia. Mr Kashgari, 23, fled Saudi Arabia last week and was detained upon his arrival in the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur on Thursday." Writes cosmicaug: "Sadly, the most likely outcome is that they are going to execute this man for three tweets."
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Separation of State and Church = good.
"Sadly, the most likely outcome is that they are going to execute this man for three tweets."
Why does Interpol even acknowledge this?!
What is even worse is that Interpol acknowledges blasphemy as a crime.
This may give the world the impression that religions have substance and may be respected.
That only applies to countries that themselves don't have the death penalty. Malaysia does have the death penalty. Besides that, this is still probably even a crime in Malaysia, since they have Shariah law. I think he was only deported to Saudi Arabia for his trial because he is a citizen of Saudi Arabia.
Because Malaysia is mostly Muslim and they think it's totally cool that Saudi Arabia wants to execute this guy over bashing "the prophet".
Note, when you are fleeing a country for religious reasons, don't flee to another country that is same religion as one you are fleeing from. Double if it's the same state religion. Pick a place that doesn't care like Netherlands or Belgium.
If it was "George Hotz gets slapped by Kaz Hirai and cries" and the comment "That's it I'm never buying Sony again" you'd have modded him to +5 Insightful.
What a difference a decade makes.
What, because the US also now executes people for being insufficiently deferential to the state religion?
Or is this just yet another misdirected, fuzzy-minded Julian Assange fanboy thing?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
"Wont be long till it happens here in the USA. Just a matter of time."
MPAA:
You have illegally downloaded Harry Potter Movies.
You shall hereby be sentenced to death by hanging with a CAT-5 ethernet cable.
By order of:
The United Corporations Of America
Unless you have a way to show that one moral system is better than another, you can't say one country's laws and preferences are better than another.
Luckily, it's actually very easy to compare laws and judicial systems, and find one - as informed by specific philosphical/moral tenets, and codified in a constitution - to be, in fact, plainly superior. That is, if rationality plays any role in the mechanisms by which you evaluate such things. I don't fee any urge to use crazy magical thinking as a standard by which to compare systems, so I have none of the trouble that some people - strangely, toxically - have with the need for moral relativism in order to remain politically correct and not hurt anyone's feelings.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Bull Shit. Maybe some citizens would protest but that is about it. Possibly, we would get a 'stern disapproval' from the state department.
As much as I dislike our meddling in other countries directly (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, the list goes on), and pushing our own BS morality diplomatically (ACTA, War on drugs, etc), we should as a government stand against things that run counter to freedom of speech, religion and other core aspects of our country.
The problem is our government only gives lip service to those amazing and praiseworthy ideals, and uses them in the worst possible ways.
But unfortunately as a people we have become a trampled, apathetic mass of idiots bemused by bread and circuses, and as long as our politicians feed at the tit of corporations and pander to their interests, and as long as we suck the oil dick of the middle east, we will continue to turn a blind eye to the issues of true importance.
Silence is a state of mime.
I would have stopped considering them allies the second it was known that 16 out of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
With Islam, there is no such thing as moderate Islam.
Turn the clock back 600 years or so (the difference in age between Christianity an Islam) and look at the behavior of the Catholic Church.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition ....
Have gnu, will travel.
Everyone's morals are based on something. I don't know what yours are based on, but clearly they don't include "not hurting anyone's feelings," (although somehow they do include "not disappointing your bird dog").
Other people have morals based on other things, including not hurting people's feelings. How can you judge yours to be better, except to claim that your beliefs are better?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The question isn't whether the country has total freedom of speech and religion, it's whether the target country will deport this guy for this offense.
If a country doesn't like Islam too much, and bans people wearing Islamic veils in public, then it's quite likely that someone showing up there from an Islamic country, on the run because he insulted the Islamic religion, probably isn't going to be deported.
It's only ever treated as "international territory" when it's a convenient fiction for the host nation. No nation that I'm aware of has a problem arresting people that it wants to arrest off planes that are just passing through. The US and other western nations certainly don't.
Man there's a heck of a lot of trolls commenting here.
Look, this is a problem of dictatorship, not of religion. The majority of the world's Muslims live in democracies and don't have such repressive laws. Muslims in America are aghast at such an unjust situation. Saudi is the backwards exception in the Muslim world. I'm a Muslim and I certainly don't support what's going on here.
Considering the volume of air traffic between Saudi Arabia and Malaysia, it is entirely possible that this was simply the first step in his travel plans.
I am an expert on fleeing countries, having watched most of the Bourne and Mission Impossible franchises (except for the hour long car chases - I fast forward through those), and can unequivocally state that your first mission (should you choose to accept it) is to clear datum. Take the first plane, submarine, camel or rickshaw out of the immediate jurisdiction of the people whom you have irritated. Then, it is just an exercise in staying ahead of inter-jurisdictional cooperation.
Thankfully we have Interpol available to efficiently process detain-for-extradition requests for international terrorists such as individuals who voice their opinion.
It's a different problem in the USA. At least the people being killed are supposedly guilty of a real crime, mainly murder (I don't think you can be executed for anything less). Everyone in the world agrees that murder is a heinous crime and that people shouldn't be allowed to just murder others and not be punished for it somehow. The problem is that the judicial process used to try and convict these people is severely flawed, so that occasionally non-guilty people are executed for a crime they did not commit, like Troy Davis.
This, while certainly bad, is still a far cry from a country where people are routinely executed for things which should not be crimes (and even more, shouldn't be capital crimes, rather than slap-on-the-wrist crimes), such as leaving the Islamic religion, saying bad things about it, having sex outside of marriage, and many other petty things that here in the West simply aren't crimes at all for the most part (except for some silly European countries where for some dumb reason, they do prosecute people for "insulting a religion", but the penalty is usually a small fine like $100, i.e. slap-on-the-wrist).
How can you judge yours to be better,
Really? You can't summon the perspective to see that a moral system that stones women to death for teaching their daughters to read is fundamentally, objectively inferior to a system that doesn't do so?
Who cares if moral systems are based on different things? When they're based on death worship, for example, they are inherently, irrationally self destructive. When a moral code is based on lies (say, about the nature of the world around you) it is a code that embraces untruth as its foundation. Do you really find no means, in your own reckoning, to separate such a value system from one that seeks and acknowledges reality?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Just tell me where to buy the Mr. Fusion upgrade.
What is trying to be done is to develop alternative or "green" energy. Unfortunately with the rancorous political dialog here in the US, it's being dragged down.
I firmly believe that the only way for us in the US to fully develop other energy sources is for government involvement. I agree, it's not the best solution but US business is too short sighted to pursue that avenue on its own - and part of their short shortsightedness is from Wall Street pressure - got to have immediate returns, after all.
In the meantime, all of the cutting edge alternative energy developments are being done in Europe and in China.
I find that quite damning of our political and business environment.
So, those Saudi assholes are going to keep doing their shit for a very long time - no thanks to us, the US.
Like Al Alwaki, an American citizen Obama executed by drone strike because of youtube videos? At least that is all we have to go on because he was never indicted, never charged, never given a trial before being "deprived of life" as REQUIRED in the constitution. Are you saying posting videos on youtube which the Feds don't like should be a death penalty offense? Because that's where we're at right now -- state sponsored murder due to content of speech. Seems like we're more on an equal footing with SA rather than morally superior.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Add to that the recent execution in Texas of a man virtually everyone with a IQ outside of single digits is certain was innocent, and its pretty clear that looking good, looking hard on crime, and being a righteous Christian hard-ass (sweet Jeebus my brain hurts just putting those words together into a single fscked-up gestalt!) trumps integrity, dignity, humanity or compassion. The U.S. isn't as screwed up as the Middle-East, but there are religious idiots working hard to get us there!
I have to agree that Interpol's complicity in this is shocking and bodes poorly for the global state of Human Rights.
Ding, ding, ding. We have yet another person who doesn't understand that analogies are not eqalities.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
But why should we?
This isn't a person's development we're talking about, where we can dismiss it by going "oh, poor Islam, his brain just isn't fully developed yet. Give him some time."
This is an organization who has had a dozen lifetimes just in your 600 year timeframe to watch and to see how things work without being insecure, murderous pricks, and that's not to mention the however many more lifetimes they have had to "mature" to begin with. At this point there is little to say but that they are actively rejecting the concept.
This is not a defense of Christianity, nor is it some ridiculous finger pointing as to who started it; I think all religions are a pox upon the world. But the idea that Islam somehow should get an extra 600 years to find itself before being criticized as extremist or intolerant is ludicrous. It's not the middle ages anymore.
Holy shit. This is a flagrant abuse of Interpol. It should result in both Saudi Arabia and Malaysia being completely kicked out immediately, and ideally blocked from issuing any extradition requests or international warrants whatsoever.
What are you babbling about? As a Muslim, I know that Muhammad, peace be upon him, died 1400 years ago, while God never dies. You still say Islam puts him above God; the Being who created all of the galaxy and existence?
Look, if Muhammad were alive today, he would not stand for such an injustice being done in his name. He was known to have people spit in his face and physically assault him, and he forgave them and spared them from punishment. What the Saudi dictatorship is doing is quite the opposite of Islam and islamic history.