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Congress Warns NASA About Shortchanging SLS/Orion For Commercial Crew

FleaPlus writes "NASA and the White House have officially released their FY2013 budget proposal, the first step of the Congressional budget process. As mentioned previously on Slashdot, the proposal decreases Mars science funding (including robotic Mars missions) down to $361M, arguably due in part to cost overruns by the Webb telescope. The proposal also lowers funding for the in-house SLS rocket and Orion capsule to $2.8B, while doubling funding for the ongoing competitive development of commercial crew rockets/vehicles to $830M. The ranking member of the Senate science committee, Sen. Hutchison (R-TX), expressed her frustration with 'cutting SLS and Orion to pay for commercial crew,' as it would allegedly make it impossible for SLS to act as a backup for the commercial vehicles."

10 of 170 comments (clear)

  1. Senator Kay Hutchinson, representing Texas by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Texas, home state of NASA's Johnson Space Center, much of NASA's manned space program, and about 12,000 NASA jobs. A state that, unlike its counterpart in Florida, is solidly red and at open war with the President. So surprise, surprise most of the NASA stuff the President wants to cut is in Texas, and the Texas Senators are fighting him on it. Relevant article on the subject.

    Just thought I would point that out in case any of you are actually still naive enough to think this debate is about science, exploration, and all that shit.

    In other news, Texas and Alaskan Senators say oil industry is "over-regulated," midwestern Senators defend corn subsidies, and Michigan Senators defend auto bailout.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Senator Kay Hutchinson, representing Texas by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In other words, "hands off my pork, dammit!".

    2. Re:Senator Kay Hutchinson, representing Texas by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, except it's the Republican senator in this case arguing for the government to build it. The Democrat President wants to privatize it.

      That's how hypocrisy works with all politicians. And yes, "all" includes YOUR guy too.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:Senator Kay Hutchinson, representing Texas by trongey · · Score: 5, Funny

      In other words, "hands off my pork, dammit!".

      Which is why we should only elect Jews and Muslims. They hate pork.

      --
      You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
    4. Re:Senator Kay Hutchinson, representing Texas by TC+Wilcox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Both of the two major US political parties are mostly hypocritical. They just pander to different groups to get in power.

    5. Re:Senator Kay Hutchinson, representing Texas by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, look. The SLS program is projected to cost 18 billion in design costs through 2017, and an additional 23 billion to achieve four launches by 2025, with the full 130 metric ton capability coming some time after 2030.

      Elon Musk says he can have a *150 MT* heavy launch vehicle ready in *five years* at *fixed price* of 2.5 billion, with a per-flight cost of around 300 million. And thus far SpaceX has shown it isn't just blowing smoke.

      So why the heck are we taking only 175 million away from SLS? Why don't we give the private contractor *500 million a year* in return for a for a reasonable shot at getting the job done thirteen years sooner? Because this is not about getting job done. It's about keeping the spending on the program high for the indefinite future.

      If SpaceX succeeded in building a heavy launch vehicle in five years for 2.5 billion, it's not going to be possible to even *pretend* to justify spending a couple of billion dollars per year over the next seven to twelve years on a system that will cost more to operate.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  2. Republicans for Big Government by bit+trollent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wait.. so now Republicans are the ones pushing for government built spacecraft while Obama and the Democrats fund corporate space travel.

    I thought Republicans wanted government to be just big enough to fit in your bedroom. When did building spaceships get added to the list of things Republicans think government should do instead of private industry?

    I've got a feeling government contractors like Lockheed martin have given generous "campaign contributions" to every Republican politician pushing for government spacecraft construction, with government sized profit margins for their chosen defense contractors.

  3. Why Should NASA Develop a Commercial Rocket by fortfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm all for funding NASA, so many good and not directly things have come from our space program, plus it's just darn cool. But I have not heard any sound justification for public funding of commercial development. This has happend many times in the pharmaceuticals industry, where public funded basic research provided excellent treatments which private firms then took over and distributed (profiting immensely), without giving back to public coffers. Also, I think this happened with broadband funding in the 90s.

  4. Re:Only some by bit+trollent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's the blatant hypocrisy that kills me.

    When it's time for government to help the country out of a recession or help the poor get into the middle class we're "all out of money"

    Every time sensible policies come up for a vote, Republicans all vote in unison, "We can't afford it".

    Bridges - we can't afford it. Schools - we can't afford it. Compasion - we can't afford it.

    Every single Republican. Almost every single time.

    Yet, when their campaign contributors or pet causes come up, all the rhetoric they used to sabotage the recovery goes out the window, and government is the only answer.

  5. Re:Backup? by Blackjax · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You're kidding yourself if you believe that the SLS is truly about fielding a rocket. There are very few people intimately familiar with the space industry (outside those with a vested interest in saying so) who believe it will ever fly. Massive NASA projects like this get canceled before completion, the history of the last 35 years has been almost completely consistent about this. The ISS is the sole exception and that squeaked past by the only the thinnest of margins despite bringing in international partners and using it as a means to keep certain kinds of technical talent in Russia legitimately gainfully employed in the decade following the fall of the USSR. The supporters of SLS know quite well it won't run to completion, but they don't support it for what it could do for US space capabilities, they do it because for however long they string it along, it means jobs in their districts, influx of capital to their districts, and it provides a way to funnel funds to particular contractors. Once it gets canceled, they just rig up a new project targeted to sound impressive to the sheeple in the general public who don't know enough about space to realize this but who are generally willing to support NASA.

    Moreover the whole idea that heavy lift of some arbitrarily high size is 'required to do human exploration beyond LEO' is just the fig leaf they use as an excuse, banking on the fact that the general public will never doublecheck and find out that it is completely false. Heavy lift is not at all required. Don't believe me, have a listen to this NASA conference call on the subject:

    Logistics and Operations versus Heavy Lift: Examining Approaches to Human Exploration in a Cost-Constrained Era
    http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/telecon/Akin_12-14-11/

    If we need heavier lift than is available right now, we'll have the Falcon Heavy from SpaceX available in 2-3 years and I'd be willing to bet that the ULA could field the heavier versions of the Delta IV and Atlas V that they have on the drawing boards 3ish years after NASA commits to needing them. Neither of these options costs NASA tens of billions of dollars or a decade of work...which is precisely why congress doesn't like them.

    NASA could be doing a lot of cool stuff in space both cheaper and sooner, but from a congressional standpoint that is not what NASA dollars are for.