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Unauthorized iOS Apps Leak Private Data Less Than Approved Ones

Sparrowvsrevolution writes "In the wake of news that the iPhone app Path uploads users' entire contact lists without permission, Forbes dug up a study from a group of researchers at the University of California at Santa Barbara and the International Security Systems Lab that aimed to analyze how and where iPhone apps transmit users' private data. Not only did the researchers find that one in five of the free apps in Apple's app store upload private data back to the apps' creators that could potentially identify users and allow profiles to be built of their activities; they also discovered that programs in Cydia, the most popular platform for unauthorized apps that run only on 'jailbroken' iPhones, tend to leak private data far less frequently than Apple's approved apps. The researchers ran their analysis on 1,407 free apps (PDF) on the two platforms. Of those tested apps, 21 percent of official App Store apps uploaded the user's Unique Device Identifier, for instance, compared with only four percent of unauthorized apps."

179 comments

  1. Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In other words, applications developed by people interested in profit are more likely to steal your data.

    Hopefully this does not come as a shock to most slashdotters.

    1. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, you cannot conclude that they're the *same* person just because they both go under the pseudonym "anonymous coward". For example, I'm also posting under that name, yet I am a different person.

    2. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't be obtuse. Whatever your stance on obtaining a copy of a more or less freely available* item of media, it's completely different from obtaining data about an individual without their consent. One is a civil issue dependent on the current legal and moral standings of the notion of copyright (which is far from universal or constant), the other is a privacy issue.

      *as in, available to anyone willing to pay

    3. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Arguably, they're stealing your privacy -- or at least stripping you of it.

      The same is not always true with a movie: I'm not depriving them of the movie, or even likely to spoil it for anyone else, and I'm not depriving them of profits they would otherwise have had I paid for the movie (simply because I will not buy a movie). (I do, however, go to many movies when they hit the cheap theater in town. Mostly I like the popcorn. That shit costs twice what the movie ticket costs, though.)

    4. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy cow! Schrodinger is posting on Slashdot!

    5. Re:Profit. by meowris · · Score: 1

      Might be irrelevant: Just reminds of how some apps have iAPs with ridiculous price tags.

    6. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. If they were stripped of that right, they wouldn't be able to sue you.

    7. Re:Profit. by fightinfilipino · · Score: 2, Interesting

      and exactly what data do you have showing 1) that these groups are the same and 2) that people "claim that pirating movies isn't stealing"?

      quit it with the troll bait.

      what's really problematic is not whether there are legit uses for the data, but that the app developers aren't up front about data being shared at all.

    8. Re:Profit. by Calos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I couldn't decide whether to mod you 'Overrated' (because I think you might actually believe what you're saying and are therefore not a Troll or Flamebait) or 'Funny' (because I can't figure out how exactly you're equating the two and it may well be a joke).

      So, instead, you get this reply.

      Now, understand that this doesn't come from someone who "claim(s) that pirating movies isn't stealing," though I do believe in the right to privacy. Maybe because of that, I don't see your insight into the matter (but apparently as you don't believe both, maybe you don't either). But I'm curious about why you see these things as the same, and why you think that there is an apparently significant intersection between the group that considers downloading movies not to be stealing and the group interested in privacy.

      You imply that a reproductions of the Mona Lisa and the details of your life, financial situation, activities, interests, online pseudonyms, and whereabouts are the same. Either you believe that I should be able to search for 'SiMac' on, say, the Pirate Bay and download this information same as I would a movie, or you don't. Which is it?

      Because even though I don't think that people should 'pirate' movies and I think I should have a right to privacy - I wouldn't equate the two. Why do you?

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    9. Re:Profit. by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      Yo dawg, I heard you liked AC posts, so I put an AC post in your AC post, so you could post AC while you post AC!

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    10. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it that the same people who claim that pirating movies isn't stealing claim that copying your data is?

      Just FYI, anybody can post as AC, it's not a regular user. Assuming all the posts by "AC" are the same person just makes you look like a moron.

    11. Re:Profit. by crutchy · · Score: 0

      no, in other words, iphones are gay.

      is anonymous ddos'ing hotmail atm?

    12. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      No, I'm SPARTACUS!

      Hmm, what? Oh, sorry, wrong thread.

    13. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really think I don't know this? My UID is how many years old?

    14. Re:Profit. by SiMac · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I'm not trying to equate invasion of privacy with piracy. They aren't the same thing, and I don't think they are.

      I'm asking why many people make the (correct, in my view) observation that piracy isn't stealing, but then make the same logical fallacy when it comes to privacy.

      In particular, I think it's absurd that GP thinks that submitting the device ID, which isn't much more personally identifying than an IP address, is theft.

    15. Re:Profit. by SiMac · · Score: 1

      Don't be obtuse. Whatever your stance on obtaining a copy of a more or less freely available* item of media, it's completely different from obtaining data about an individual without their consent.

      I completely agree, but I also think that obtaining data about an individual without their consent is completely different from theft, especially when that data comes in the form of a device ID, which is not really about an individual, but about a device that the individual owns.

    16. Re:Profit. by icebraining · · Score: 1

      "Device ID"? This discussion is about contact lists...

    17. Re:Profit. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Yep, not surprised one bit. This is part of the reason I use FOSS apps wherever possible.

      And this is a big part of the motivation to "appify" everything - to break the inherent sandboxing ability of a browser, to get direct access to all your personal data.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    18. Re:Profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am an independent developer with a few apps the App Store.

      A couple of years ago I spoke with a guy who owns his own marketing firm, he started bragging about the amount of money that he has been able to receive for passing phone lists on to third parties (multi level marketers I think they are called?). When he found out that it was possible to gather tons of phone numbers, and the size of my user base he was practically begging me to pass him phone number lists. I refused.

      I treat my app users the same way I want to be treated when I use an app. I have no issue with ads, but I think it is pretty crappy to pass phone numbers / addresses back to your servers (unless you really need it, but I doubt you really do as some type of hash might work) so that you can make a crap load of easy money.

      Anyway, this research really makes a lot of sense, given the amount of money that is at stake from the number of people who download apps from the Apple App store.

      Oh well, I guess I could make some sarcastic comment, but I'm too depressed and have to get back to work now. :(

    19. Re:Profit. by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Lots of stuff in Cydia isn't free. In fact some of it is pretty expensive.

    20. Re:Profit. by tqk · · Score: 1

      no, in other words, iphones are gay.

      Stop bad mouthing lesbians, you faggot.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    21. Re:Profit. by SiMac · · Score: 1

      Why are we talking about contact lists? According to the article, very few App Store and Cydia apps leaked your address book. The only things more than 1% of apps "stole" were your device ID and your location. And WRT to the address book, the difference between the App Store and Cydia isn't statistically significant.

    22. Re:Profit. by crutchy · · Score: 1

      you think i'm a faggot because i think iphones are gay. you must be a fucking genius mate. +1 "inthiteful"

    23. Re:Profit. by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      especially when that data comes in the form of a device ID, which is not really about an individual, but about a device that the individual owns

      I own my device; it is not only very useful but also rather valuable and potentially able to cause me not inconsiderable expensive if it fell into the wrong hands (running up call charges, etc). Thus at all times, it is either on my person (e.g. in a pocket) or in the building in which I am currently in (on my desk at work or at home, etc). It is never more than a few metres away from me. Combine the device ID with the device's location, and you are tracking me to within a few metres (+/- the resolution of the location, of course). If that's not a privacy issue I don't know what is.

    24. Re:Profit. by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Actually, what I think he's trying to say is that if copying data (a movie) isn't theft because nothing is actually stolen, then copying data (your contact list) isn't theft either, because again nothing is actually stolen.

      He's not explicitly saying anything at all about the privacy implications or equating the two in any other way.

    25. Re:Profit. by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Hey, you're the one who Is anthropromorphizing an iPhone into a homosexual creature.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    26. Re:Profit. by crutchy · · Score: 1

      why do you think gay = homosexual?

      that's soooo last millenium

  2. Walled Garden not so secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha ha, too funny. get an Android phone...

    1. Re:Walled Garden not so secure by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I hate Apple as much as the next non-fanboy but I don't expect the official Android app store to be much better. They don't do code reviews or black-box testing either, they've only recently started doing AV scans.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Walled Garden not so secure by tqk · · Score: 1

      I hate Apple as much as the next non-fanboy but I don't expect the official Android app store to be much better.

      Both iPhone and Android users *ought* to be jailbreaking their devices, as a matter of course. This story proves it. Apps DLed from any "store" shouldn't be trusted out of the box to run as system services; IT 101. 20% are borderline malicious?!? Eeeew!

      I trust Debian to not !@#$ me up the *&^. Google and Apple, not so much. They both have agendas/ulterior motives of their own which don't consider our interests are of much need of their consideration.

      Caveat emptor, FFS.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  3. Data wants to be free by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    Clearly, there seems to be a need for a privacy firewall, that will filter all data on a computer system, somewhat like the military 'data-diodes'.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Data wants to be free by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or atleast a virtual "profile" with random data in it, and while launching apps, you should be able to choose which data you want to give it access to

    2. Re:Data wants to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They should develop some sort of mechanism so that when you install a new app, it tells you what data and services on the device the program will have access to, and then you can decide whether freecell really needs access to your email or not.

      It's a shame nobody ever thought of that before... ;-)

    3. Re:Data wants to be free by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 1

      Well, thats the current system, but add an option to redirect certain permissions to a set of dummy data and you are better secured (and its more convenient).

    4. Re:Data wants to be free by Calos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And also completely defeating the purpose of the current system, disrupting the entire ecosystem. There's a chain, here: the app developers include these permissions so that they can profit from providing a free-to-download-app by serving ads, the ads paid for by those believing that they're targeting ads to those most likely to buy their product/service. If the users disrupt the data stream with 'dummy' data, the ad providers don't know how well they're targeting the ads, and the value to the ad purchasers diminishes.

      Not that I don't agree (and use software which lets me do the same on an Android phone) but the implications, when applied globally, greatly change the landscape.

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    5. Re:Data wants to be free by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Indeed a shame.
      All we have now is a system where you can either give freecell access to resources it doesn't need or not install freecell at all.
      A system where you can block access to email but allow access to the resources it does need would be great.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    6. Re:Data wants to be free by mrvan · · Score: 1

      To combine the ideas of two posters above, what is needed is:

      • Split personal information in 'private' and 'public' info. For example, your facebook friends are (I think?) public, while the email addresses and mobile numbers of your contacts are generally private. There should be sane default settings that can be altered.
      • Allow any apps that ask for permission to see personal information X three choices: allow, allow public only, deny. The app should not be able to see the difference between allow and allow public only, it just gets less info. The email address and phone number of the default contacts (customer service, voicemail etc) will be public, so the app will generally get some email addresses to send spam to if that's what it does.
      • Make it easy for apps to run with minimum privileges. For example, if I would creata an agenda app that allows the user to email directly to someone attending a meeting, I really don't need to either see emails or control the email app. What is needed is an API function "email this person", which would open an email editor with the email address of the person (which is never given to 'my' app). Same for calling people. In this way, apps can give rich features while using only 'public' personal information. Note: I don't know whether these things are possible atm, I'm a phone user, not a (phone) developer.
      • Finally, it should be possible to limit the 'requires internet access ' to the domain the app came from ('a la java'). Again, the app should not see this difference, just get connection refused on other addresses.

      Anyway, I'm a user rather than a (phone) developer, and I guess a lot of people don't care so much about their private parts, but it seems that awareness is growing...

    7. Re:Data wants to be free by peragrin · · Score: 1

      targeted ads yea right.

      according to google I live in eastern europe. I live in teh USA.

      If they can't even get my IP right for location then what the fuck are they targeting.

       

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    8. Re:Data wants to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when tracking the user is the unalienable right of ad provider?

      All the old media ad companies made profit somehow without data on specific viewers, so this will be just returning to old ways.

    9. Re:Data wants to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What in the hell gave you that idea? Magazines, radio stations, and TV stations have collected demographic information on their consumers since these media came around. And they've done so specifically in order to be able to demonstrate value to advertisers.

    10. Re:Data wants to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um.. you're contacts list?

    11. Re:Data wants to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is something that I really don't care about. If the whole ad-based user tracking ecosystem went away today, no major loss whatsoever. I'd rather pay 99 cents for an app than have one be "free" but want to slurp up my contacts, IMEI, ESN, and other info to some data miner.

    12. Re:Data wants to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, sure, voluntary anonymous surveys is exactly the same as tracking of specific users often without ability to opt-out except for "Then don't use this product! (or any of thousands others where we stuck our trackers and didn't even tell you)"

    13. Re:Data wants to be free by tqk · · Score: 1

      If the users disrupt the data stream with 'dummy' data, the ad providers don't know how well they're targeting the ads, and the value to the ad purchasers diminishes.

      Yeah? Well !@#$ 'em. !@#$ you too for drinking the Koolaid. I do not surf the web in order to be presented with advertisements. I do it to communicate with like minds. Thank $deity for AdBlockPlus!!!111

      I enjoyed the web before it was taken over by advertisers. I go waaaaayy out of my way to ignore their existence these days, and I resent having to expend the effort. Now, we have "advertisers" distributing malware as free software that compromises personal information. Holy !@#$ing yay, NOT!

      YMMV, and if so, to hell with you (since you're one of *them*).

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    14. Re:Data wants to be free by tqk · · Score: 1

      Magazines, radio stations, and TV stations have collected demographic information on their consumers since these media came around.

      No, they've tried to. "Send us email, go to our Facebook page, watch our twitter feed, ..."

      Now, they're distributing malware that sends your personal information back to the mother ship without your knowledge of it going, and it's being processed and parsed into an rdb that's cross-referenced with other rdbs, ...

      You people are fools for putting up with this crap, especially if it's just to get a *free game*. Holy !@#$.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    15. Re:Data wants to be free by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      No, they've tried to. "Send us email, go to our Facebook page, watch our twitter feed, ..."

      Oh don't be silly, they bought data from apparently-unrelated market research surveys, conducted their own surveys, etc. The GP is talking about the situation before Internet access became commonplace, though of course such surveys are still conducted now (my dad is semi-retired and does them himself from time to time).

  4. Its a matter of who does the verification by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    App store: Apple certifies app, people trust Apple, people download app, app creators can take advantage to get user data, unlikely to be caught
    Cydia: No certification, people are more likely to look at what the app is doing(also because someone who uses Cydia has a higher probability of knowing how to look at it), app creators more careful to not get a bad reputation

    1. Re:Its a matter of who does the verification by EnempE · · Score: 0

      Apple uploads your data to their servers all of the time. Maybe they don't see it as a leak, its a valid method of making an app commercially more feasible.

      If apple starts selling marketing information those apps will be gone in a matter of minutes.


      p.s. I have 3 macbooks, and iphone, ipod, itv, apple wifi router in my house and I love all of them, just in case you thought i was one of those spiteful anti apple trolls.

    2. Re:Its a matter of who does the verification by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      "B-b-but but Apple stuff doesn't get viruses/malware/trojans!"

      Make no mistake, this is what trojans are and what they do. I wonder how many of those take more than just the unique ID (see path silently stealing customer address books). There was an article a while mentioning the amount.

      I'm surprised the "carefully curated" meme gets passed along here at slashdot with so many people who should know better. And I love to see those knocking Android saying it has malware. Ever notice that those articles mention malware on a 3rd party market and NOT the official android market? In this case, with android mentioning permissions, it actually makes android MORE secure than the App Store.

      I hope Google pre-emptively starts making ads that the App Store gets viruses before Apple starts another iOS doesn't get viruses meme.

    3. Re:Its a matter of who does the verification by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Not that I disagree with the UAC model that Android uses per se, but with your final sentence you're equating apps being able to send your UDID to the developer with a virus?

      Let's ignore the fact that, assuming the comparisons were valid it would be a trojan and not a virus, I'm not sure you can logically make the argument that apps on the iOS app store using one of Apple's own APIs to identify the client handset is equivalent to those apps being classed as viruses and malware.

      Malware would be an app that harvested data outside of these controls (and I'm not saying they do not exist on iOS - no one is claiming immunity to malware, since that is like saying you're immune to catching a cold, even if you don't go outside and take precautions to avoid sick people), but if Google starts running an ad campaign that "iOS gets viruses" based on this evidence then they would be 100% wrong. If they ran an ad claiming that iOS had malware based on *actual evidence of malware* (and again, note very carefully, I am not saying that iOS has no malware) then they would be on solid ground.

      Perhaps you should refresh yourself on the definition of trojans, viruses and malware in general, and also on the way that apps on the iOS app store actually function before you start giving Google marketing advice.

    4. Re:Its a matter of who does the verification by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Let me first precede in that I do appreciate your well thought and detailed reply.

      Not that I disagree with the UAC model that Android uses per se, but with your final sentence you're equating apps being able to send your UDID to the developer with a virus?

      It states right in the article that in addition to the ID, location data is stolen and so is your contact list. You don't call that a trojan/virus/malware? In addition, it was found that 3 apps on the App Store even record ambient room audio without your knowledge (article a month or two back). That is the absolute utmost of vile malware.

      Let's ignore the fact that, assuming the comparisons were valid it would be a trojan and not a virus, I'm not sure you can logically make the argument that apps on the iOS app store using one of Apple's own APIs to identify the client handset is equivalent to those apps being classed as viruses and malware.

      See above. In addition, Apple's official policy flat out refuses apps to give out location data, contact list's, etc., without permission.

      Malware would be an app that harvested data outside of these controls (and I'm not saying they do not exist on iOS - no one is claiming immunity to malware, since that is like saying you're immune to catching a cold, even if you don't go outside and take precautions to avoid sick people), but if Google starts running an ad campaign that "iOS gets viruses" based on this evidence then they would be 100% wrong. If they ran an ad claiming that iOS had malware based on *actual evidence of malware* (and again, note very carefully, I am not saying that iOS has no malware) then they would be on solid ground.

      iOS has malware. It's already been proven according to TFA. They wouldn't be lying.

      Perhaps you should refresh yourself on the definition of trojans, viruses and malware in general, and also on the way that apps on the iOS app store actually function before you start giving Google marketing advice.

      I know the differences. This is truly classified as a trojan. However, the average user doesn't know the difference. They interchange the words. Hence why I wrote "virus/trojan/malware."

    5. Re:Its a matter of who does the verification by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      No, you said "virus" in your final sentence (the one I addressed directly). Here it is again:

      I hope Google pre-emptively starts making ads that the App Store gets viruses before Apple starts another iOS doesn't get viruses meme.

      I replied to this with a reasoned argument.

      iOS has malware. It's already been proven according to TFA. They wouldn't be lying.

      Did you even read my post? It seems not. I carefully noted that my argument was not that iOS had no malware - in fact you quoted me as saying that, so I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

      My argument is that an app that uses a published API to retrieve the UDID is not, by definition, malware unless it does other things that make it so - taking personal info like contact lists and so on, and the study *did* find some of those apps, but a very small handful (on both the official and jailbreak app stores) but that the vast, vast majority of the apps used to make up the "scare number" were doing nothing more than reading the UDID, as they are allowed to do by the terms of the developer agreement. This was then categorised as "leaking" private data, which is simply a gross misrepresentation.

      Any actual valid malware findings the study made (and they did find some) were overshadowed by the bias and hyperbole, and manipulation of the definitions to suit the predetermined argument - that the official app store is "less trustworthy" than the jailbroken one. It may well be, but this data does not support that. All this does is expose a biased report, or a woeful misunderstanding of how the app store works.

  5. android gets a bad rap by StealthHunter · · Score: 1

    sure lookout and company find malware, google removes it, etc the android alternative markets can have loads of malware (percentage wise). but at least we are fairly aware of what's going on. the apple ecosystem is still a big black box where the nastiness is ignored and unknown. even the notion that apps are vetted is completely misleading - as shown by charlie miller in syscan. apple doesn't even release stats like what the market distribution is among the different iOS devices.

  6. Methodology? by tartles · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I checked the source publication and the following paragraph describes how they chose the apps:

    Since iTunes does not support direct searches for free ap- plications, we rely on apptrakr.com [2] to provide a contin- uously updated list of popular, free iOS applications. Once a new application is added to their listings, our system au- tomatically downloads the application via iTunes and de- crypts it. Subsequently, the application is analyzed with PiOS.

    I didn't see anything that described how they chose the Cydia apps however. I bring this up because there are numerous very popular Cydia apps that are simply iOS tweaks that adjust a piece of the interface or something similar. These apps would intuitively be less likely to require any sort of user information at all, so I'm not sure how much I trust these results.

    1. Re:Methodology? by Calos · · Score: 1

      Fair point, I guess the questions hinges on what constitutes an "app." To me, a UI modification or tweak isn't an app. Whether or not the 'researchers' believe the same is the question.

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    2. Re:Methodology? by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      But a UI modification app, whether or not you think it is an app -- if it's something that you download, install, and run -- then it's something that has the potential to send private user data. Just because it's less likely to doesn't mean it shouldn't be examined or counted; that's like saying that Solitaire apps are less likely to use network traffic than Online Chat apps, and thus measuring them messes up the methodology. How about we just measure what is out there?

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    3. Re:Methodology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, yes you can search for free apps.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=all+systems+down+itunes

      There's a link to a free app. I own it, so I'll be tracking the number of downloads for it today!

  7. How about Android apps ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone has done any research on Android apps, on the same topic ?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:How about Android apps ? by mjwx · · Score: 4, Informative

      Anyone has done any research on Android apps, on the same topic ?

      Actually, very few leak details.

      Android applications have to ask permissions to get access to the internet or your personal details.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:How about Android apps ? by Pieroxy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyone has done any research on Android apps, on the same topic ?

      Actually, very few leak details.

      Android applications have to ask permissions to get access to the internet or your personal details.

      Which is all but the same as most tech-unaware users will dismiss the dialog. What they understand behind these dialog boxes is that if they click "No", the App won't work.

      It's a bit like electing the president. It's nice to ask people for their opinion, but the overwhelming majority has no clue what's at stake, so it serves very little purpose.

      Still, it's better than not asking. A little.

    3. Re:How about Android apps ? by IntlHarvester · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, I'd consider myself a 'tech-aware user', and even Google's own apps want such a laundry list of permissions, it turns into "fuck, whatever" and then you press OK.

      Using Android was actually an interesting experiment for me, because I'd mulled over the possibilities of a capabilities-based permission system for many years. Then when I finally got one, I found it was realistically about as useful as an IE ActiveX dialog.

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
    4. Re:How about Android apps ? by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 2

      Anyone has done any research on Android apps, on the same topic ?

      Actually, very few leak details. Android applications have to ask permissions to get access to the internet or your personal details.

      Nice try, what about all the apps that Google removed from the marketplace exactly because they leaked details to the developer (aka Trojans)? What about those in the open markets?

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    5. Re:How about Android apps ? by jschrod · · Score: 4, Informative
      I can't count the amount of Android apps that I didn't install because they want to have r/w access to my contacts, even though they obviously don't need it for their functionality.

      There are also too many apps that demand an Internet connectivity where I ask myself why. Or I had to deinstall apps where the background process keeps downloading data all the time that I only need on a holiday, but not now; and I found no way of disabling the background process short of deinstallation (without rooting the phone, then means are available).

      So I'd say, Android has it's similar share of problems.

      --

      Joachim

      People don't write Manifestos any more -- what's going on in this world? [Frank Zappa]

    6. Re:How about Android apps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've found them pretty good, though I wish you could restrict internet access to specific domains and I also wish you could turn off specific permissions (so app developers would have to check that they have the permission before they used it, erroring - and asking for the permission - if that permission was required).

      I fairly often see games and such asking for access to my contact data - presumably to do what is commonplace on the iphone. So, I reject them. It works pretty well.

    7. Re:How about Android apps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the apps that require internet access without the need for it are supported by adverts.
      Every platform has the problems though - Android is just better suited to deal with them because of the permissions system.

      Remember - Apple doesn't have access to app source code. They can run sniffers and whatnot, but they can't see exactly what the app is doing.

    8. Re:How about Android apps ? by Keeper+Of+Keys · · Score: 2

      > I also wish you could turn off specific permissions (so app developers would have to check that they have the permission before they used it, erroring - and asking for the permission - if that permission was required).

      Yes. Or maybe an option to "Install with No Permissions" or something. It would be interesting to see which parts of the app required which permissions, then you could make an informed choice whether you wanted X feature enough to expose yourself in that specific way.

    9. Re:How about Android apps ? by icebraining · · Score: 2

      Then you have to get a Symbian S60 phone. They show dialogs request for permissions as the app needs them, not upfront. For example, I can launch Opera Mini and I have to give it network access, but I'm only asked for filesystem access (not with this name, of course) when I download some file.

    10. Re:How about Android apps ? by icebraining · · Score: 2

      Neither do the researches, and they still found it. Excuses, excuses.

    11. Re:How about Android apps ? by mulaz · · Score: 2

      There is an app called LBE security (or something simmilar, search for LBE), where you can give/take away permissions, and you can have the app prompt for some permissions ona per-use basis.

      So, if angry birds wants location info, you get a pop-up, choose Don't allow (because it doesnt need it), mark 'remember', and continue playing.

      The bigger question is, what data does the aplication itself send around, since it requires a rooted phone.

      --
      i read your email
    12. Re:How about Android apps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What about all the apps from TFA that make it into supposedly "vetted" App Store?

      Whenever a story about such program on Android pops up, Apple fanboys come out with "Ha-ha! See, you need walled garden! Apple is superior." Hope this will open their eyes to the fact Apple doesn't care about much more than "Starts up; Does something useful; Follows basic desgn guidelines".

    13. Re:How about Android apps ? by cduffy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I wish you could restrict internet access to specific domains and I also wish you could turn off specific permissions

      CyanogenMod does this (allowing specific permissions to be rescinded).

    14. Re:How about Android apps ? by SwedishPenguin · · Score: 1

      IMO, the problem is that it's not specific enough though, you have to choose between allowing access to the Internet or not, it would be nice if it could request access to a few specific domains for instance, that way if the primary purpose of the app is to show me when the next train arrives for instance, I can be sure that it only ever contacts the transit provider and not some obscure server where it can upload any information it gains access to.

    15. Re:How about Android apps ? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What android really needs(and probably won't get, for actively self-interested reasons; but so it goes...) is the ability to lie.

      Right now, you can at least see what outrageous demands an application is making; but it's a take-it-or-leave-it thing. You cannot, for instance, specify that an application that wants your contacts list for no reason useful to you installed such that any attempt to access the contacts list returns a false one, rather than the actual system-wide contacts.

      It'd likely add some resource overhead; but you could theoretically have a per-app 'virtual' set of android.* interfaces: some could transparently map to the real ones, others could be defined by a filter against the real ones(for network access, a specific set of firewall rules, or android.location interface that is based on the genuine android.location data; but with resolution reduced or a fictitious offset introduced, for instance), and some could be based on pure fictions unrelated to the real interface.

      The ability to lie would allow you to push back against the creeping trend to just demand all kinds of permissions without obvious reason; but still provide well-formed inputs where applications expect them, so that things will still work(alternative uses, such as polluting the databases of the various 'social' scum who treat hoovering up contacts as a business model, are left as an exercise to the reader); but the device owner's wishes will be preserved.

    16. Re:How about Android apps ? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Do you have anything to actually back that up? Because from my experience of Android virtually all apps ask for more permissions than they should actually need so who knows what they're doing with that data. Given how many times Malware had to be removed from the market I'd say there's a good chance that, on average, Android developers have lower morals which is no surprise given that their customer base is less likely to pay for things.

    17. Re:How about Android apps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The granularity of the Android permission system isn't that great. For instance, there is no way to restrict internet access so that an app can only contact certain sites, and you can not grant an app a subset of the requested permissions, e.g. if you do not want to use the camera functionality of an app, or want to explicitly confirm every time an app is allowed to send an SMS. Perfectly innoccuous apps end up asking for very broad permissions to perform their function, so malicious apps don't stick out at all.
      Of course, too much security and transparency here would be problem for Google, because if customers had the choice many of them would use it to disable and avoid ads and data mining.

    18. Re:How about Android apps ? by lordbah · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've tried to discuss the permissions they require with some Android app makers but I've never gotten anywhere. It usually goes something like this:

      I inquire as to why an article reading app would need permission to use my camera. They say the app has a function to take pictures and submit them. I say I don't currently have any interest in doing that - can't they have a base app which doesn't require that permission, and then for those who want to do something like that, have an add-on app which does require that permission? They tell me that Android permissions don't work that way. I tell them that I won't be installing their app.

      or

      I ask why a game wants access to my contact list and permission to make phone calls. They tell me it's just for a "friends" function, and they only want to read my phone's ID, they promise they would never do anything unwanted. I say I don't trust you that much yet, can't you have a version which doesn't require those permissions, and over time maybe I will come to trust you and then I can install the full version? They tell me that Android permissions don't work that way.

      or

      I ask why a streaming music app would need permission to "send email without my knowledge" or access my calendar. They say the app has the ability to share stations with my friends, "entirely under your (my) control", and display ads with a button which can add an event (concert presumably) to my calendar. I ask why then they would need to be able to do these things "*without my knowledge*". They say thank you, come again. I say I won't be installing your app then.

      So I would say the permissions are nice in theory but in practice many app developers are not willing to finely tune them and either unwilling or unable because of (they claim) platform restrictions to provide variants of the app with different functionality and different permission requirements.

      I have no experience with iOS so I can't say anything about that.

    19. Re:How about Android apps ? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yup - I've been advocating the same thing. LBE Privacy Guard is the closest I've seen to it in implementation - I assume it actually works.

      This was proposed as a feature for Cyanogenmod and shot down. CM now has the ability to revoke individual permissions, but it tends to lead to lots of force-close issues. Most likely they're just sending errors to applications, and not simply lying to them (which is less likely to cause a force-close - app designers already have to handle the case where a user has one contact named John Smith and they never leave Topeka with an IMEI of 12345678). When the app force closes CM tells the user it is their fault for revoking permissions and offers to let them unrevoke them.

      Android puts far too much control in the hands of app developers. It is like Windows 3.1 - it works great until some app decides to misbehave. Users, and not app designers, should be the final word in whether an app can run a service all day, or use the GPS vs the network, or transmit x GB of data per day, or whatever. And that final word shouldn't simply be to use or not to use - that is a race for the bottom.

    20. Re:How about Android apps ? by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      100% wrong and false. Don't spread FUD.

      Every time I see an article with this, I laugh. Why? Because it's trojans found in 3rd part markets. NOT the official Android Market. It's hilarious because it's click spam. The title always includes malware without the 3rd party tag. You click on the article, then it's some BS market for devices in China.

      I blame the media for half of it, and FUD spreaders like you for the other half.

    21. Re:How about Android apps ? by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      On Andoid : An app that wants too many permissions with no obvious reason does not get installed by me ....

      on iPhone you don't know... so just have to trust Apple, apparently this trust is misplaced

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    22. Re:How about Android apps ? by jo_ham · · Score: 3

      So now you know what it's like whenever an Apple article is posted. A torrent of misinformation and frothing bias, mixed in with a little fact, often twisted around to ridiculous extremes.

    23. Re:How about Android apps ? by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      I'd still like the option to ask. Even better, make it so you can fine-tune which permissions you give at any time you like, allowing or disallowing when you feel. Give us the option.

      And I feel differently than you do. If users don't want to be responsible, screw them. People have had years to follow the advice of proper security. The first rule is so simple and easy to follow and applies here: "dont blindly click!" If they don't want to learn, it's not my problem. And if they don't want to take the effort with a device (smartphone) that carries all of their most personal, private, and financial data, they're idiots. You don't see people objecting to taking a drivers test before driving a car. Smart phone theft is even more dangerous because unlike cars, no one usually is ever prosecuted, or even theft detected, and it's all done so easily from the comfort of the hacker's home. And yet you bank account will be drained or identity stolen which will result in months to years of painful recovery.

      Take the extra second of effort or face the consequences. It ain't my problem. If you don't want to, you're screwed, not me. I think people forget that.

    24. Re:How about Android apps ? by mlts · · Score: 1

      There are ways around this. If you have a rooted Android device, there are two apps, Droidwall and LBE Privacy Guard which not just control access to the network, but even if an app has full permissions to read contacts/phone ID/etc, it can be denied that access, where it gets passed bogus values.

      This way, if some game wants every permission under the sun, it can have it. Although in reality, it won't be able to touch the contact list, phone ID, GPS, or even get on the network.

    25. Re:How about Android apps ? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      I'd love to know why so many apps require 'full network access' when, near as I can tell, their purpose requires no access.

    26. Re:How about Android apps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iOS is worse. You don't even get presented with any dialogs, so in theory, an app can slurp your contact list, phone info, calender, and spam everyone on those lists without ever being able to concretely prove that it was that app. The only thing iOS will present a dialog for is for the GPS location.

      Of course, you can jailbreak and use Firewall IP on the Cydia market. I actually recommend doing this, just so people see how many sites that have -zero- relevancy to tasks at hand are connected and uploaded to from a person's phone. Tracker sites, behavioral monitoring sites, ad sites, sites that are only reachable by IP and change every so often, ad nauseum.

      Having a /etc/hosts file helps in this case, but jailbreaking is dicey, especially on the 4S and newer where a tethered JB is impossible. One goof and forced restore, and one has to hope the latest iOS is JB-able.

      At least with Android, there are apps that automatically put in a blocking hosts file, can take a custom IP blocklist, actively deny apps which have too many permissions access to resources, and can even sniff packets to see what apps are trying to phone home.

      If you know what you are doing, Android is far more secure than iOS from rogue apps, hands down. If you don't, even then, Amazon vets apps, and Google looks for malware, so a user is fairly safe even then. Where one is going to get a malicious app are the repositories with pirated apps (same shit you get if you try someone's Installious repo on the iPhone). If Angry Birds is available free from a website one has never heard of, it might be bundled with more than just the game.

    27. Re:How about Android apps ? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, why was the notion shot down for Cyanogenmod? Was it a resource constraint problem of some sort? The(almost definitely hairy) issue of how to do a permissions UI for such a system, or is there actually support for the scum among the movers in the CM community?

    28. Re:How about Android apps ? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Read for yourself here.

      I think the issue is that many of the CM devs care about their reputation in the phone industry. They don't want to tick off vendors, or Google.

    29. Re:How about Android apps ? by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      You should go out more, and meet people that are not geeks. There are plenty out there and they represent the overwhelming majority in your country.

      The thing is, learning all the intricacies of security (and thus the intricacy of technology) far outpace the intricacy of driving an automobile. It could take years or decades.

      I understand your point of view, but it's a very selfish one. It lacks a full bucket of empathy.

    30. Re:How about Android apps ? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Wow, that was rather more vitriolic than I expected...

      Ironically, a slightly more 'neutrally presented' permission and filter based per-app provider namespace security scheme could actually be something of a killer app for Android, as well as a valuable tool for the privacy enthusiasts and database-jammers of the world:

      Consider the (vastly common, in my experience) 'dual use device' scenario where a single phone is used for both work and personal business(either a business phone that hasn't been given the lockdown treatment, or a personal phone that somebody has set up activesync on, usually). You want convenient stuff like syncing of the company directory to the phone's contacts to Just Work, so that your worker drones can email and call their cubemates efficiently; but you Do Not Want some idiot installing the SocialTwitFriendst.ir app and having it hoover up your entire directory, along with the sucker's gmail contacts, and sending it to some dodgy startup. Solution? All contacts imported from the company directory get a specific filter flag such that only apps blessed by IT can even tell they are there when they query the 'global' contacts list. Boom. The user can still install apps that demand 'Contacts' access, so IT doesn't have to break their phone; but only blessed apps are allowed to have their provider interface namespaces attached as children to the ones provided by corporate sync. Similar behavior could do things like force certain apps to communicate only through a VPN link, without breaking open internet for the browser, or any number of other scenarios.

      With some detailed thought about the architecture(this would, admittedly, have the potential to turn into a hellish spaghetti nightmare if you didn't have a clever designer on board) you could do some really neat role based permissions stuff, allowing multiple security contexts to more or less seamlessly exist on the same device, without leakage, or the rather clunky solution of multiple virtualized Android instances... In addition to the almost-certain-to-piss-off marketers privacy wonk scenarios(which these features would also enable), I can imagine some setups that would make IT types very happy indeed...

    31. Re:How about Android apps ? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      That is a VERY good argument. If only I could mod it.

      If you don't beat me to it I might just log it on the issues list as an AOSP enhancement request, assuming it isn't already there.

    32. Re:How about Android apps ? by dwightk · · Score: 1

      very much this

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    33. Re:How about Android apps ? by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      I do want to precede with the fact that if you knew me in real life, you would know that I am the antithesis of needing "to go out more, and meet people that are not geeks." Myself, my friends, and people around me all have very full lives in very successful non-computer and non-geek related careers. Computers has just been a side hobby of mine for years.

      My point however, is that it isn't necessary to be a security expert. All the work has been done for us and we've been told about what to do and what not to do involving security. For goodness sake, everything that is necessary for the average user to know can and has been fit onto one simple newspaper article a myriad of times over the years. It's not hard, difficult to remember, or complex. The whole problem is attributable to people's refusal to learn or laziness. In this case, people refuse or are too lazy and choose to use a gatekeeper (Apple), but as this article shows, it's a placebo. It's nothing but smoke and mirrrors or security theater.

      Like in everything else in life, there are consequences. Identity theft, bank accounts cleared out, etc. Why should I have empathy for a person who can't follow three simple rules? You don't see anyone bitching when we have to learn the rules of the road for driving do we? If anything, practicing proper security is an orders of a magnitude EASIER.

    34. Re:How about Android apps ? by tepples · · Score: 1

      unwilling or unable because of (they claim) platform restrictions to provide variants of the app with different functionality and different permission requirements.

      Then the number of listings in the store would have to increase to 2 to the power of the number of features that users want to choose to have or not to have. Say one user wants high score submission over the Internet ("full Internet access"), another user wants to scan barcodes to add levels from a magazine ("use camera"), another user wants both, and another user wants neither. Would you want to require the developer to submit "Game (with barcodes and high score submission)", "Game (with barcodes only)", "Game (with high score submission only)", and "Game (no extra features)" as separate apps?

    35. Re:How about Android apps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless, doesn't take away from the fact that the iOS is at guilt here. Just because your neighbor also steals/kills/, doesn't make it right for you to do.

    36. Re:How about Android apps ? by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      Would you want to require the developer to submit "Game (with barcodes and high score submission)", "Game (with barcodes only)", "Game (with high score submission only)", and "Game (no extra features)" as separate apps?

      Of course not, which is why Android should change to give user control over permissions, and the developer should handle all the different scenarios within their app.

    37. Re:How about Android apps ? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I would be interested to see the reaction. It is, undeniably, the case that robust access control could be used to fuck with advertisers and 'social' stuff and various 'analytics' spying. However, if presented as an architecture/security proposal, it would basically be a request for a Mandatory Access Control/Role Based Access Control implementation, which sounds a great deal more benign...

      With the exception of the 'filter' notion, for programmatically sanitizing certain data for certain application contexts(which is hardly new in the sense that virtually all of modern computing is piles of abstraction layers; but is a little odd in that it would mostly be about culling data based on human relevance), most of what you would want for a 'don't-trust-the-apps' implementation of Android would end up looking very similar to a Mandatory Access Control system, with a dash of Role Based Access Control. Presented in those general terms, it sounds about as much unlike a den of scurrilous hackers and enemies of profit as one might imagine.

      I strongly suspect that there could be (quite legitimate) objections on resource use grounds, having an instance of every information provider, for every application, filters chewing away in the background, having to move to an SELinux kernel, iptables crunching a set of firewall rules for every application's tun device, etc, etc. certainly wouldn't do the RAM requirements and batterly life any favors... A usable user interface might well prove difficult or impossible to implement on the phone, and not easy even as a full desktop Android Policy Editor widget(hands up, everyone who enjoys SELinux configuration!), which would be another objection

      However, at least in an ideal world, most phones would only realistically have to run a fairly lightweight set of controls, built for the user by somebody who knows how to do that, in order to reap most of the benefit. The more intensive capabilities(yeah, your phone's microsd card probably isn't going to be happy if every app's communication with the internet has its own tcpdump instance and a transparent http proxy with some rewrite rules dumping all communications to mass storage...) could be used in emulators for hunting rogue applications.

      The proposal would also have the, presumably attractive to both Google and handset vendors(and cheating spouses! Now have all 'extracurricular' messages programmatically shunted into a private namespace, invisible from the standard system utilities!), advantages of being able to support all sorts of dual and multi use device scenarios without going full hypervisor and paying a tithe to VMware on every handset.

    38. Re:How about Android apps ? by spitzak · · Score: 1

      Yes it is ads.

      I would really like to see some different permission that lets applications download ads and not do anything else.

      The simplest I can think of is that it is limited to downloading the contents of *short* url's at a *slow* rate (1 request each 10 seconds or something). It cannot submit forms or do anything else with the the internet. A more complex version would be to fix the text of these url's, possibly allowing Android to insert rough location, screen size, or other non-identifying information.

      Anybody know if this idea would work at all? And how to convince Android to add it?

    39. Re:How about Android apps ? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      I think the bigger issue is the UI complexity and ease of use.

      If you have several global namespaces that apply to everything from contacts to the SD card that probably wouldn't be hard to implement. If you have some areas that are namespace-exempt that would also be easy to implement. What gets tricky is when you want to have a particular app be able to see all of the SD card but a subset of your contacts and recent calls, but another app should see a subset of the SD card and the recent calls but all of your contacts. Extend that to every database on the device and you end up with a per-app configuration list that has 14 choices. That's the sort of thing that causes namespaces not to get used much on linux desktops either - if you really want everything to be configurable you have to configure everything.

    40. Re:How about Android apps ? by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Uh, what?

      Trojans are only found on non-reputable 3rd party markets that people voluntarily put on their Android handsets, usually in China. Google, Android, and the official Android market have nothing to do with it. So how would they remove it?

      All I can say is... what are talking about?

    41. Re:How about Android apps ? by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 0

      Uh, what?

      Trojans are only found on non-reputable 3rd party markets that people voluntarily put on their Android handsets, usually in China. Google, Android, and the official Android market have nothing to do with it. So how would they remove it?

      All I can say is... what are talking about?

      Do you actually want me to post a LMGTFY link?

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    42. Re:How about Android apps ? by AncientPC · · Score: 1

      This is what's great about LBE Privacy Guard (requires root).

      When an app requests contact info, location data, etc. LBE gives the usual warning up. The difference is when you say no, LBE feeds the app dummy information rather than directly block thus avoiding the force close issues that plague other implementations.

    43. Re:How about Android apps ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're assuming that the user, whom you and I would like to have the responsibility for the security/privacy of an app, has the understanding that the responsibility requires. It's like giving a kindergartener a can of mace for his security but he has no concept of defensive actions. Or, more in line with the subject, giving the keys for your $40,000 car to a teenager without making damn sure he knows how to drive it first. We in the tech world see this as a no-brainer, but if you've ever done any training for end-users or kids you understand that those values must be learned, just like the child must understand how to identify a threat and a teenager must learn how to operate a vehicle.
      There's a greater problem than simply learning what is right over wrong. There are a great many folks who don't want to learn. In the same vein as a teenager who doesn't want to know how an internal combustion engine works, many computer/phone/device users don't care how it works as long as it does. Even when I did support for M$ software (over a decade ago), I ran into floor techs who didn't understand and didn't care. This dangerous cross of ignorance and apathy is precisely how we find ourselves locked in this debate to begin with.

    44. Re:How about Android apps ? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      So, how is giving a user an app that steals private data and the ability to block that stealing worse than simply giving them an app that steals private data with no ability to block it at all?

      Sure, most users won't make effective use of any tools you give them, but they're not any worse off for it...

  8. Malware vs. virii by aaronb1138 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This reminds me a bit of the early days of spyware and malware when anti-virus companies were behind the curve and tried to write off that since malware was typically installed with user consent, they weren't responsible for scanning, detecting, and removing it. Apple is doing the same, but without even saying it's not their responsibility. Instead, they keep giving consumers the false belief in the safety of the walled / curated garden. An oddity to be noted as well is that the Apple store has actually moved mainstream consumers farther into the reliance on the vendor for repairs. While most telcos will tell users to backup their data as best they can and perform a wipe on Android, most iPhone users I have supported have told me stories about waiting as much as a couple hours to get an Apple Geek to wipe their phone.

    This is a nice companion piece from Forbes to the article on iOS crash rates versus Android.

    On a sideways note, most /.ers realized long ago that as OSX continues to increase in market share, they will become the target for virus writers. I sincerely doubt Apple's sandbox for apps will do much to stop them. If anything, the sandbox makes it harder to find a well concieved malicious program.

    1. Re:Malware vs. virii by mjwx · · Score: 1

      This reminds me a bit of the early days of spyware and malware when anti-virus companies were behind the curve and tried to write off that since malware was typically installed with user consent, they weren't responsible for scanning, detecting, and removing it. Apple is doing the same, but without even saying it's not their responsibility. Instead, they keep giving consumers the false belief in the safety of the walled / curated garden.

      This isn't entirely accurate. Apple have taken responibilty for scanning, detecting and removing malware except that they aren't doing a very good job of it.

      I sincerely doubt Apple's sandbox for apps will do much to stop them. If anything, the sandbox makes it harder to find a well concieved malicious program.

      This, any sysadmin with a basic idea of security knows that a gateway, no matter how good will never protect internal machines. Internal devices need individual security. Plus the hardware similarities of iDevices will work against them. Find an exploit in a driver for one Iphone, you have an exploit for all of them.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:Malware vs. virii by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That logical fallacy has been an issue with the Net since the early 2000s where host based security was replaced by relying on the firewall to do everything. When the primary means of attack changed from direct attacks and portscans to browser and browser add-on exploits, the firewall methodology went by the wayside.

      It is different with the iPhone. There has yet to be a single piece of malware discovered in the App Store that has caused any damage to Apple users. So, in some ways, the concerns are unfounded. However, who knows if this would continue in the future.

  9. Hmmm... So far so dodgy... by Petersko · · Score: 2

    I hope the programmers among us actually read some of this study before chiming in based on it's veracity... I'm just a few pages in and alarm bells are going off all over the place.

    1. Re:Hmmm... So far so dodgy... by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Can you elaborate? I am a programmer, and I read the PDF provided in the article. My conclusion is that they did a very clever job in creating a mechanism that could statically analyse the code and determine with some degree of certainty that some functions where accessing what they considered to be personal information; and then transmitted this over the wire. It is clever because, due to its complex and dynamic nature, the Objective-C runtime does not make static analysis easy or practical.

      They also mention that, at least to some extent, they corroborated these results with actually using the application in question, invoking the functionality identified by their scanner, and analysed the network traffic resulting from it.

      What alarm bells were going off on your side?

                -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    2. Re:Hmmm... So far so dodgy... by tqk · · Score: 1

      I hope the programmers among us actually read some of this study before chiming in based on it's veracity...

      Not to worry. At least for some of us, "Unauthorized iOS Apps Leak Private Data Less" is pretty much like saying "the Sun's going to rise, yet again." [Ditto Android apps, btw. That is what Google does, after all.] How much less? "Don't be evil" less? "Ah, just roll the damned dice, ffs!"

      Of course, this's all about proprietary software. *Of course* it's going to leak private data! It is the 21st Century, you know.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  10. Walled gardens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this invalidate some of the claims about Apple just protecting its users by restricting their freedom?

    1. Re:Walled gardens by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I think the first tethering app disguised as a flashlight app did that, doesn't seem to have dissuaded the sheep.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  11. Data Privacy? What about that? by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know MobileMe / iCloud of course: knowing an App store email address and its password, gives you access to the following: where is the iPhone/user at anytime, contacts list, emails ... among others. Pretty important data.
    So, in the subway/room... you enter your password to download an App, and someone may see and remember the credentials. It may happen, and? Gmail, for instance, allows you to get the list of the recent accesses to your account.
    Apple App Store, MobileMe? Nothing. There is absolutely no way to determine if someone else accesses your account unless the other guy changes/order something. The only solution according to Apple is "Change your password". That case happened to a friend of mine who is not much in IT, and got suspicious after a few coincidences of interest. Considering the weight of iCloud and MobileMe, some more data protection is needed from Apple.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    1. Re:Data Privacy? What about that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Gmail, bottom right of the screen, there's account activity. Shows client type and ip. Too bad there isn't a Google wide account activity list.

  12. Getting device identifier != "stealing your data" by sarysa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know that there is a considerable off-grid contingent on /., but I don't get why people use getting unique device identifier (UDID) as an example of stealing user data. It isn't hacking or anything -- it's a public API usable by any app writer. If it weren't acceptable to use, Apple wouldn't allow apps which access the UDID onto their store.

    There are a large number of practical applications for the UDID, ranging from the more user friendly uses such as automatic backup of app-specific data (i.e. game save), to mutually beneficial things like incentivization schemes, to features less popular to the user but necessary to make free content financially viable, i.e. targeted advertising.

    Whenever I rail against Apple around here, people always bring up the concept that most people just want their device to be an applicance, and don't want to care about the internals. This comes with said blissful ignorance. But those 20% of apps passing data back home aren't stealing anything -- they're just using another tool to profit in the modern mobile space. More than 99% of that 20% is sending no more than the UDID and data specific to the application itself. Stealing would be to somehow get the user's underlying iTunes account info and buying stuff with it. (though what Path was doing is a bit of a mess, heh...)

    --
    Charisma is the measure of someone's ability to lie with a straight face.
  13. First thing.. by geogob · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...I did after jailbreaking my iphone was to install a firewall. The experience was quite interesting, allowing me to see exactly which apps tried to contact remote sites and which sites they attempted to contact. And, to my knowledge, the only external sites contacted by unofficial apps I've seen were related to ad content.

    Access to private data on outside of the apps (calendar, contacts, etc.) should be controllable on an per app basis, just like with location service. And each app accessing this data should be carefully reverse engineered and analyzed to ensure it is safe.

    1. Re:First thing.. by mjwx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Access to private data on outside of the apps (calendar, contacts, etc.) should be controllable on an per app basis, just like with location service.

      You mean the way Android does it? By listing the permissions the application has asked for when you install it.

      It wouldn't be the first thing they slavishly copied from Android (*cough*notification menu*cough*)

      And each app accessing this data should be carefully reverse engineered and analyzed to ensure it is safe.

      Good luck with that.

      Companies will object to their proprietary code and secrets being examined, users will scream until they get their fart apps.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:First thing.. by geogob · · Score: 1

      You mean the way Android does it? By listing the permissions the application has asked for when you install it.

      It wouldn't be the first thing they slavishly copied from Android (*cough*notification menu*cough*)

      First, I don't think it's anyway relevant who did it before. And if someone did it and it worked well, than I sure do hope so they will copy it.
      I'm really getting tired to read comments like these parallel to comments against intellectual property, patent trolling, etc.

      Companies will object to their proprietary code and secrets being examined, users will scream until they get their fart apps.

      You don't have to have access to the code to reverse engineer a program. In fact, if you have access to the source code, I wouldn't call it reverse engineering at all. Reverse engineering what a program does, in the context of network communications, is fairly easy, especially if you can run the app in a sandbox inspecting all its actions. Where you get into problems is if the data is encrypted - you see that the app is sending data, but you can't easily verify what the data is. Of course, if a ping pong game sends encrypted data to some random server in Russia, it would get quite fast on my suspicious app list.

      Good luck with that.

      I don't think asking their permission is part of the plan.

    3. Re:First thing.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, I think he mentions the android thing simply because iSheep scream bloody murder if somebody dare copy Apple, and also because when Apple does something, even if somebody else did it before, it's "innovative".

      Second. Seriously, reverse engineer every app? Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. I've been working on reverse engineering an application which we have fully licensed access to the source code. They just didn't document it worth a damn. It's taken two of us two months to do it, and we're only almost done now. Note, I said ONE application. What you've described is about the furthest thing from easy as you could do. It's easy to black box test "I click this, and this happens", but a very different thing to black box test to find out everything a program does when there aren't A/V clues to let you know something happened. Hell, sometime for giggles, turn on wireshark and try to figure out what a chat client is doing via network sniffing. You know exactly what it's trying to do, still doesn't make it easy.

    4. Re:First thing.. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      You mean the way Android does it? By listing the permissions the application has asked for when you install it.

      The android solution is pretty lousy. If you want to use Facebook, then you have to use their app. So, Android just tells you how much they're raping you before they go ahead and do it. If you want to be out of touch you always have that option.

      The solution is to let users opt out of individual permissions, and for it not to be possible for an app to detect that this is happening. The only effective solution I've seen for this is LBE Privacy Guard. Cyanogenmod grudingly added a similar feature, but it causes apps to crash (probably because they generate errors instead of silently returning dummy data).

    5. Re:First thing.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      m.facebook.com is pretty good, and tailored for touchscreen devices.

    6. Re:First thing.. by tqk · · Score: 1

      The only effective solution I've seen for this is LBE Privacy Guard. Cyanogenmod [grudgingly] added a similar feature, but it causes apps to crash ...

      Feature. I fail to see anything negative in that sort of behaviour. Bad apps should crash. It may be a bit distracting when surfing pr0n, but at least your device isn't getting rooted.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    7. Re:First thing.. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      The apps are written with the assumption that a request to retrieve a list of contacts will retrieve a (possibly null) list of contacts - not an error. I don't really see them as bad apps.

      I don't see crashing apps as a feature in any case. Very few people care enough about privacy to use these features, so app writers have no incentive to "write their apps properly." Ordinary users don't see the crashes - they just have no privacy.

      So, the only people who experience crashes are people who want to use an app but who value their privacy. You can already choose to not install the app. So, adding a feature which lets you install the app but still not be able to use it doesn't really add any value.

      The kind of argument being made here by some is that if you value your privacy you should just live off the grid on some hill in West Virginia. If I can have my cake and eat it too, why shouldn't I?

    8. Re:First thing.. by tqk · · Score: 1

      So, the only people who experience crashes are people who want to use an app but who value their privacy.

      You don't consider that a "feature"? I do. "Huh. I won't let it rape me, so it crashes. Good to know. Bad app. Uninstall."

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    9. Re:First thing.. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      So, the only people who experience crashes are people who want to use an app but who value their privacy.

      You don't consider that a "feature"? I do. "Huh. I won't let it rape me, so it crashes. Good to know. Bad app. Uninstall."

      You can have that feature. I'm using this one:

      Huh, I won't let it rape me, so it just works but uploads an empty contacts list and dummy IMEI to its server. Good to know - I can keep using the app safely.

      I don't want to not use half the popular apps out there - I want to firewall them...

    10. Re:First thing.. by tqk · · Score: 1

      I don't want to not use half the popular apps out there ...

      "Popular" isn't a very compelling reason here to adopt things. Windows, Facebook, Twitter, and Apple are all popular. So's Britney Spears, the Bieber, and Barbara Streisand. I see no need for any of them. I tend to prefer, "performs a desired function as advertised." YMMV.

      Yeah, I'm a dinosaur. Shoot me (please).

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    11. Re:First thing.. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Hey, I hate Facebook, but I'd like to stay in touch with my family who refuses to use anything else, and syncing contact photos is nice as well. If I can do that without uploading excess personal data, all the better...

    12. Re:First thing.. by tqk · · Score: 1

      Hey, I hate Facebook, but I'd like to stay in touch with my family who refuses to use anything else, and syncing contact photos is nice as well. If I can do that without uploading excess personal data, all the better.

      What's wrong with email? You can attach anything you want. Yeah, if you're running Windows/Microsoft, you neet to worry about incoming ...

      What's wrong with smtp? Other than MS sucks?

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    13. Re:First thing.. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with email? You can attach anything you want,

      That's great for sending out info, but it isn't very useful for receiving info if everybody else is posting it on Facebook.

      If you can convince 40 bazillion people to stop using facebook more power to you - I stopped posting on it ages ago.

  14. Well, did you accept the EULA? by Kaenneth · · Score: 5, Informative

    I actually read the EULA for the recent game "Civilization V", and it said they could take your contacts list, and share/sell it.
    Fortunently Valve/Steam was nice enough to give a refund before I installed it when I complained about it "As a one-time courtesy" not as policy, I'm sad to say.
    Particularly since the EULA wasn't available for viewing until after purchase.
    http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2109777

    1. Re:Well, did you accept the EULA? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Some PC games will scrape your browser history, such as NFS:Shift. They'll actually use it to adjust the in-game advertising.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  15. Mike's Madness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When is this app going to be available?

    or does UCSB no longer stand for You Can Study Buzzed?

  16. Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The whole idea of the device UUID is to create a primary key for users without actually using any of their personal information. So what if someone is storing your UUID? That's the whole point!

    If you give them your name and email and bank account information, and they tie that in with your UUID, then you have bigger problems than your UUID being "uploaded".

  17. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "21 percent of official App Store apps uploaded the user's Unique Device Identifier"

    In iOS 5.x it's impossible to read out the UDID.
    Everybody still on 4.x should ask himself: Why?

    1. Re:Bullshit by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      In addition, the UDID is not a big threat in terms of "personal data." It is nothing more than a serial number of the device. Big-fucking-whoop. So you got my serial number; I couldn't care less. The number leaking actual personal data is more like 0.0000001%.

  18. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

    My biggest problem with it is that it isn't generally made clear to the user unless they go looking. It probably say something vague about sending some identifying data back deep in the EULA somewhere but IMHO companies should be much more up-front about what they are doing.

    In particular instead of saying apps are "free" they should say "advertising supported" or "user tracking supported". As well as permission information the market/app store should say "tracks your device and app usage".

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  19. Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's shocking that people who are interested in harvesting user data would target the larger market of the two? Why would they target the users of Cydia, all of whom have at least the tech savvy to value and accomplish a jail break, over the teaming, unwashed masses lining up at the App Store?

    Next you'll tell me that Macs have so few viruses because they are super secure, and not because they are so greatly outnumbered by Windows machines...

    1. Re:Seriously? by tqk · · Score: 1

      Next you'll tell me that Macs have so few viruses because they are super secure, and not because they are so greatly outnumbered by Windows machines...

      This again? Ca. 70% of the web is driven on Linux boxes. Where's all the Linux malware?!?

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    2. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the linux boxes that drive the web, which makes up for 70% of "Company X network hacked" stories.

    3. Re:Seriously? by tqk · · Score: 1

      On the linux boxes that drive the web, which makes up for 70% of "Company X network hacked" stories.

      Yeah, sure. It's not like Sony's too cheap to hire competent admins who'd know how to keep up to date with security patches.

      Oh, wait ...

      And it's not like 70% of "Company X network hacked" stories are running Windows, ...

      Oh, wait ...

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  20. Because there isn't a logical fallacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Works for sale under copyright (or otherwise available to the public and controlled by copyright) are not private. My contact details are. After all, you do NOT get copyright on your contact details, do you.

    Therefore there is no logical fallacy in decrying privacy violation but decrying piracy's mischaracterisations by the content industry.

    There's also the little fact that piracy isn't stealing, so even if you want even stronger copyright, you will only be honest if you refute the statement that piracy is stealing.

    Two reasons why there is no logical problem.

    A third reason is that none of these, either your misrepresentations, or the facts, are logical fallacies. I would suggest you get a dictionary.

    1. Re:Because there isn't a logical fallacy by SiMac · · Score: 1

      Works for sale under copyright (or otherwise available to the public and controlled by copyright) are not private. My contact details are. After all, you do NOT get copyright on your contact details, do you.

      Therefore there is no logical fallacy in decrying privacy violation but decrying piracy's mischaracterisations by the content industry.

      I agree.

      There's also the little fact that piracy isn't stealing, so even if you want even stronger copyright, you will only be honest if you refute the statement that piracy is stealing.

      I also agree. But you are completely ignoring the point I'm trying to make, which is that submitting device information to a server described in this article isn't stealing either and it's equally misleading characterize it as theft no matter how you feel about it.

      A third reason is that none of these, either your misrepresentations, or the facts, are logical fallacies.

      Look up "false analogy" in your dictionary. If it doesn't have it, try Wikipedia.

  21. Re: Unique device identifier by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    How about we rephrase it as "Getting your name"?

    Maybe my betters know why it needs to be a Unique Device ID, but the privacy problems are growing because Unique ID Data all link to itself and it's only smoke and mirrors keeping it all from crashing in. Look at the mess the Social Security Number is in. "For your security, let's have the Last 4 of your Social and thanks to Facebook, your Mother's Maiden Name."

    So somewhere either now or later, someone will have a database of phone Unique Device ID's to Names. And oh yes, some of these programs are meddling with contact data too.

    So why isn't it just enough for a phone to say "Hi, I'm an Apple iPhone, there are many like me but this one is his"?

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  22. Valve were not nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since the EULA was refused, the contract was refused. Therefore you must be allowed to get your money back. ESPECIALLY when the DRM requires activation. For that to be of any point whatsoever, this has to be confirmed as proof you haven't used the game at all. If it isn't, because they know it is or will be cracked, then DRM has no point at all except as another excuse for expensive games and control.

    And you won't find that on any marketing blurb...

    Therefore AS A MATTER OF POLICY they have to refund you.

    IF they then say you have not bought the license, you bought the game which you still have, then they're already lost: they keep whining about how you bought the license when it suits them. In fact the hordes of Fluffers For Steam (tm) will INSIST that you bought a license, not the game.

  23. Great analysis, terrible reporting by laird · · Score: 1

    The analysis was great. They used some very clever techniques, and wrote it up thoroughly.

    The reporting is absurdly overhyped, with statements like "one in five of the free apps in Apple's app store upload private data back to the apps' creators " Almost all of the "privacy leaking" was simply apps capturing device ID's (UDID), which is routine piece of data collected for issue resolution, and isn't "privacy" any more than a web server logging your IP address is violating your privacy. If you're worried about that, you probably should change your IP address every day, and disable browser cookies. A few apps ask for location data (which requires user acceptance) and send it to the server, which is under user control so isn't "leaking".

    The only "bad" apps that they found were a "few cases in which the address book, the browser history, and the photo gallery is leaked." Those are (at least potentially) evil. They found 5 in iUS and 4 in Cydia, which was well under 1% of the apps checked. Those apps should be "outed" so that people can at least make an informed decision about whether there's a good need for that kind of data access.

    1. Re:Great analysis, terrible reporting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not so sure about UDID giving away no more privacy than IP.

      IP doesn't identify a single device, thanks to NATs and dynamic pools and conversely same device isn't bound to single IP, it's many to many relation. To track someone specific you need more than his IP, like a cookie, for example. And many indeed disable browser cookies for this very reason, just as you propose.

      UDID, on the other hand, is a strict one to one relation, it's unchangeable, linked to single device and can't be disabled. UDID is much better suitable for tracking and collating info across different sources. Add a little bit more, and you're tracking a user even after a new phone purchase.

    2. Re:Great analysis, terrible reporting by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points to bump you up. The UDID is nothing more than a device serial number. That is not personal data. Of course all the haters will scream, "See, Apple is evil!" Over-hyped nonsense.

    3. Re:Great analysis, terrible reporting by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Almost all of the "privacy leaking" was simply apps capturing device ID's (UDID), which is routine piece of data collected for issue resolution, and isn't "privacy" any more than a web server logging your IP address is violating your privacy.

      Bad analogy, an IP only identifies a particular internet connection, and if you have a dynamic IP that doesn't even mean much. The iShiny's UUID is more like the mobo serial number on a PC.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:Great analysis, terrible reporting by Pope · · Score: 1

      My Address Book information is personal data. This is less an Apple problem than an Evil Developer problem: they're the ones stealing contacts without asking.

      Hell, why does Angry Birds need my Location Services info?

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    5. Re:Great analysis, terrible reporting by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Ok, its more like the MAC address. (yes, yes, I know you can change that on most network devices)

      The point is the story is enormous overhype designed to make Apple look bad, since the classification of the UDID being "private data" inflates the numbers and the use of the term "leak" in the headline is grossly misleading, since there's an API for determining the UDID in iOS.

      I might as well say my ip address is being "leaked" onto the internet when I go to "whatismyip.com".

      The study *did* identify some actual nasty apps on both stores, but they were very few in number (but, importantly, not zero). All that actual useful information is buried under a mountain of "zomg! data theft!" hyperbole over the UDID of the device.

    6. Re:Great analysis, terrible reporting by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Apple's UDID is at least as permanent as a mobo serial, even a MAC address is much less personal and easy to change. It's device-unique and can't be changed, I'd say it's quite fair to call it personal info.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    7. Re:Great analysis, terrible reporting by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      My Address Book information is personal data. This is less an Apple problem than an Evil Developer problem: they're the ones stealing contacts without asking.

      Hell, why does Angry Birds need my Location Services info?

      No shit your Address Book is personal data and any Dev stealing that is evil. My point was that the article says 21% "steal" the UDID, which is just a serial number, not personal data. My guess on Angry Birds is they have a geography-based leaderboard you can check out (I know an air-traffic controller game that does).

    8. Re:Great analysis, terrible reporting by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing that it's not, but the way the story is presented, "personal info" is implied to be things like your name, contacts, email, address, etc rather than the relatively plain (if not totally anonymous) UDID, and that calling it "leaked" personal info, like it's some piece of malware, when in fact it's a common and documented API that is part of iOS is just grossly misleading and sensationalist.

      Of course, talking about it accurately doesn't allow the biased point to be made - the assertion that "unauthorised" apps outside of the walled garden are "more trustworthy" than those inside it. It's no real surprise that apps inside the walled garden use Apple-published APIs to collect data more than unofficial apps from jailbreak app stores.

      Again, I'm not trying to state that it's necessarily right, or that there is no malware on iOS (the study did find a small handful of genuine malware on both sides), but the story is simply not as presented.

  24. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except for the targetted ads, all of these use cases could be satisfied with a unique per-app user ID. e.g. The OS could create a hash of the UDID and the app name and give that to the app.

    The question is not "is the feature useful?" The question is "given a spectrum of possible implementations, why is the most privacy-invading always chosen?"

  25. And see by unity100 · · Score: 1

    how badly the european style privacy and 'forget me' laws were necessary.

  26. from another poster by unity100 · · Score: 1

    I'm not so sure about UDID giving away no more privacy than IP.

    IP doesn't identify a single device, thanks to NATs and dynamic pools and conversely same device isn't bound to single IP, it's many to many relation. To track someone specific you need more than his IP, like a cookie, for example. And many indeed disable browser cookies for this very reason, just as you propose.

    UDID, on the other hand, is a strict one to one relation, it's unchangeable, linked to single device and can't be disabled. UDID is much better suitable for tracking and collating info across different sources. Add a little bit more, and you're tracking a user even after a new phone purchase.

    1. Re:from another poster by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure about UDID giving away no more privacy than IP.

      IP doesn't identify a single device, thanks to NATs and dynamic pools and conversely same device isn't bound to single IP, it's many to many relation. To track someone specific you need more than his IP, like a cookie, for example. And many indeed disable browser cookies for this very reason, just as you propose.

      UDID, on the other hand, is a strict one to one relation, it's unchangeable, linked to single device and can't be disabled. UDID is much better suitable for tracking and collating info across different sources. Add a little bit more, and you're tracking a user even after a new phone purchase.

      If only a UDID is extracted, you are tracking a SERIAL NUMBER only - not a person.

    2. Re:from another poster by unity100 · · Score: 1

      if you track a 'serial number' of a device enough, you can easily map the tracked to particular persons after you amass a certain size of data. this is what websites are doing.

    3. Re:from another poster by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      if you track a 'serial number' of a device enough, you can easily map the tracked to particular persons after you amass a certain size of data. this is what websites are doing.

      Perhaps if the application is a web browser, that would mean something, but I can't imagine too many people using an alternate web browser. With any other app, you get the fact that they used your own app only - perhaps multiple apps if you make them. If no OTHER data is leaked, you get nothing else.

    4. Re:from another poster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any other app? Uhm, nope, starting from obvious things like social media integration in apps and to less obvious like "scan the barcode and compare the prices" your devices gives out a lot of info about you and there are people willing to buy that.

      Add to that the ease of merging the data from different apps thanks to global UDID instead of separate identities in separate networks and it's much more valuable than what you can get from browser tracking.

    5. Re:from another poster by laird · · Score: 1

      Sure, and that's exactly what web sites do now with browser cookies. So there's really nothing new to worry about.

      Let's focus on the real evil behavior, such as apps scooping up users' address books. That needs to be stopped.

  27. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by Rich0 · · Score: 2

    Allowing people to build huge databases of devices with unique IDs is not a good idea. This is just CPU ID all over again. It takes control over a user's privacy away from the user.

    I'm fine with an API that assigns an app a unique ID on a particular phone, and which gives the user the ability to reset it to a new unique ID at any time, or force it to be a value of their own choosing. Oh, and two apps on the same phone get different IDs, and if you uninstall/reinstall the ID changes again. That makes the unique ID more like a session cookie, which I can see as having value for network-enabled apps.

  28. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by dzfoo · · Score: 2

    You didn't read the PDF of the experiment, did you? In there they explained the risk of the capturing the UDID.

    The identifier by itself does not say much. However, most of the companies offering the frameworks are either advertising brokers, or affiliated to them, which then use the captured identifiers to correlate them with additional personally identifying information captured through other applications and services in order to build a profile of the user.

    They give as an example AdMob, which is owned by Google. Wherein Google can easily capture the device ID of a GMail or Google+ user and associate it with their account. Then all apps using AdMob's advertising framework can report the device's ID, which can then be mapped in this database against a real user account.

              -dZ.

    --
    Carol vs. Ghost
    ...Can you save Christmas?
  29. Fake Version of Temple Run Unearthed in the Androi by SerenaBenshoof · · Score: 1

    There was a copy of the game Temple Run in the Android Market. Temple Run is a popular game app currently available for iOS only. and noticed something odd about it. This copy of Temple Run is seen as available on the Android Market. But if you’ll check the information on the game developer, you’ll see that it is not the same developer as the one in indicated in the iOS version, which is Imangi Studios. This later turned to as a malware

  30. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Accessing the UDID is deprecated in iOS 5. Use of deprecated APIs is an app submission offense that can result in rejection.

    So, Apple knows about this sort of crap, and is phasing out the ability to do it.

  31. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by tqk · · Score: 1

    This is just CPU ID all over again. It takes control over a user's privacy away from the user.

    Yes. These are "free" apps. Not News: corporations aren't the only predatory entities out there. There's still individuals mugging and raping people all on their own.

    Windows has viruses and trojans, iBaubles do the same thing in different ways 20% of the time. Who knew?!? :-O

    Tell your friends: free is not necessarily equal to benign. Even FLOSS advocates learned that a long time ago. You go with your distro's software repository, not just random tarballs you stumble across and hope for the best.

    Apparently, that's not necessarily the case outside of FLOSS.

    --
    "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  32. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 1

    Apple wouldn't allow apps which access the UDID onto their store.

    Apple has removed UUID from the public API starting in iOS 5. The problem is that Apple has already allowed apps which use UUID into their store.

    It's still possible to read the wireless MAC address, so identifying individual iPads and users is still possible.

    --


    "Lame" - Galaxar
  33. It's done wrong by phorm · · Score: 1

    One thing that impressed me about blackberry was that it asked me when an app wanted to do something (not before I downloaded/installed it), and gave me the "yes/always/no" option for trusting that app with said permission in the future. It was also a lot more fine-grained than android's "let them see security detail X and they can also sniff your calls and text-messages" type security.

    I believe you can do this to some extent with "cyanogenmod" on Android, so I really wish google would get off their duff and look at adding such capabilities into the base unmodded OS.

  34. Their purpose is to show ads by tepples · · Score: 1

    I'd love to know why so many apps require 'full network access' when, near as I can tell, their purpose requires no access.

    Their purpose, from the developer's point of view, is to show advertisements to the user, and they need an Internet connection to download those ads. Any functionality is secondary.

    1. Re:Their purpose is to show ads by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Point. I forgot about ad pulls. Now I'm pondering 'sponsor this app' placement; once-per-month releases, highest bidder gets placement for that revision.

      Benefit is that the app's users would know the app's target market and (to an extent) community, which is a particularly nice way to target ad spending.

  35. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

    In particular instead of saying apps are "free" they should say "advertising supported" or "user tracking supported".

    When it comes to mobile apps, I think that if you see the former, you should assume at least one of the latter.

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  36. Local businesses by tepples · · Score: 1

    Hell, why does Angry Birds need my Location Services info?

    If you're referring to ad-supported "free" games, I imagine that the app's sponsors want to show you ads for local businesses near your location, not on another continent.

  37. Re:Getting device identifier != "stealing your dat by sarysa · · Score: 1

    While this can be a concern, you have to put it into perspective. You download some game and now Google knows you play that game because it has AdMob. So what? Apple already has insane amount of your usage statistics that would make Google foam at the mouth. In the end, though, for all these tech giants know about me, they only want to use it to sell me stuff.

    The only exception to this rule has been Facebook, which is why I quarantine my Facebook account in a browser I don't normally use. They have a track record of publishing unapproved information to a user's friends, and my philosophy is once a scumbag, always a scumbag. I'm finding it too hard to completely boycott them, so I've just metaphorically stuffed them into a box.

    But Google and Apple (the latter of which I'm a certified hater of) are mature companies who just want to be able to charge more for impressions and click-throughs, so I just don't care. I can easily quarantine searches that I don't want even them being aware of. As for the makers of the game you downloaded, they just want statistics across their entire portfolio for making smarter business decisions in the future. None of these parties want to harass you.

    --
    Charisma is the measure of someone's ability to lie with a straight face.
  38. Missing the point, I think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This seems a little like saying, if I leave my backpack unattended on the sidewalk, cops are going to peek inside more often than regular people. Problem is: there's going to be someone among the "regular folk" who will just take the whole damn thing. Sure, cops are going to inspect more-often, but there's lower chance of the worst case.

    The reason I don't jailbreak my iPhone or use Cydia is because I want to limit the worst case scenario of intrusion. My understanding is, if it's in Apple's app store, then Apple has the identity of someone who can be held responsible if the app misbehaves. If some app steals my credit card number of passwords or whatever, there's a good chance (or, at least, much better than Cydia's... which is zero) that we'll be able to track down *someone* who's head we can put on a pike. And that, I feel, should give pause to anybody getting any funny ideas with putting a malicious app in Apple's app store. (It works kinda the same with DKIM mail and crypto-signed mail; it doesn't guarantee that the mail isn't spam. It just gives you more reason to believe that you can track the sender down...)

    All it takes is *one* malicious app that you get from Cydia and you're toast. Which is why I think that it's a fool who would switch to Cydia in order to keep their data more safe.

  39. I am an Android developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think some of this can be solved by the Android OS developers, not Android app developers. The biggest problem is *there is no optional option for permissions*.

    I will give you a for example: I can improve my app a little bit by accessing user GPS, and seeing where they are. Some users don't care, and will willingly give up their GPS for a slight improvement in functionality. Then there are users who freak out why an app which reads e-mail, or sends SMSs, or whatever, needs to know your GPS location - which is fine. But there is currently no way to make this optional. It is Manichean - the app either requests GPS for everyone, or it does not. There is no optional option, no way to fine tune it and so forth.

    And in essence, that there is no optional permissions and finetuning more or less plays into what will become a complete lack of privacy. More and more Java jars I include with my app will request more and more permissions, as will my core app.

    If I want to put in GPS functionality for the 2-5% of users who want it, I'm forced to do it for 100% of people.

    You could say "release two separate apps". But there are a million things I could release two apps for. You already see phone and tablet versions of apps, and this sort of thing. I want to keep everything all in one app and one project as much as I can. I'm not going to release a phone app and tablet app, each with 8 possible permission parameters turned on or off.

    Tell Android and Google to allow optional permissions in the Android Manifest and the code. It is a problem with the ICS and pre-ICS permissions in the code base, not developers like me. It's no sweat off my back to allow a setting for the 5% of users who care enough about privacy to turn GPS and the like off. It means less complaining Market comments and the like. E-mail Google.

  40. "lusers" *want* their data to be free. by tqk · · Score: 1

    No, they've tried to. "Send us email, go to our Facebook page, watch our twitter feed, ..."

    Oh don't be silly, they bought data from apparently unrelated market research surveys, conducted their own surveys, etc.

    Sure. My point is about leverage. Yeah, they've done all that before by hiring cheap labour to dive into whatever datasets they could come across trying to come up with correlations they could then attempt to exploit. 21st Century, the game's changed. Computers and software make all of that cheap and easy to do with vast amounts of $any_data_wherever_you_find_it, some of which is sent off without the luser even being aware it's being sent. Before, they had to beg you to "come out" to them. Now, "out" is the default, and they only need to grep your "outed" data (cf. Facebook, "free games", et al). I doubt I'm a genius, but even I've done some pretty slick stuff with RDBs and perl.

          Give me a place to stand, and I shall move the Earth

    Remember that story a couple of months ago about that app installed by default on smartphones that reported back to the mother ship, ostensibly to optimize network performance? Remember how surprised everyone was that that was even happening? I wasn't. :-|

    Politicians are passing laws that make illegal wiretapping legal (AT&T --> NSA). Why be surprised to learn that mere corporations are raping customers of their personal information? Corporations don't have to care about morals and ethics. They're only supposed to care about maximizing profits and minimizing costs.

    Consumers are the new cannon fodder.

    --
    "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.