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Yet Another European Government Drops ACTA

Posted by timothy on from the set-fire-to-the-paper-tiger dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The government of Bulgaria, which had already signed ACTA, yesterday reversed itself, and announced that it would not seek ratification of the treaty. This comes after similar moves by Poland, Germany and the Netherlands, and a weekend of massive protests against ACTA across the European continent."

47 of 117 comments (clear)

  1. Common sense by sadness203 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everywhere but not in America!

    1. Re:Common sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah but they underestimated that EU citizens are not fucking stupid, and doped up on high fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants.

    2. Re:Common sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      +1 awesome characterization

    3. Re:Common sense by poity · · Score: 4, Informative

      Summary is not entirely correct. Germany, Poland, Netherlands did not also "drop" ACTA, they delayed proceeding on it in pursuit of further clarification. Their actions are not the same as Bulgaria's. There are still internal conflicts in the governments of those countries and ratification is still likely after amendment. I understand there is a desire on slashdot to portray an unstoppable tide of anti-ACTA sentiment in Europe, but we can't make up what we want.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    4. Re:Common sense by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The US already has the DMCA, so it matters little if it's ratified here. ACTA was to impose the DMCA on other countries. From what I've seen, ACTA adds nothing new. As many tech pundits have already pointed out, DMCA works well in the US because of Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms that many European countries lack, which would make their version of a DMCA relatively unhindered from becoming downright draconian.

      Bad for Europe, a shoulder shrug for the US.

      --
      I8-D
    5. Re:Common sense by Higgins_Boson · · Score: 5, Funny

      Back in MY day we didn't have high-fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants!

      No! All we had was cocaine, marijuana and LSD for our depression and nothing but pure, sweet honey harvested by Cuban children to tame our cravings for sweets.

    6. Re:Common sense by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

      As many tech pundits have already pointed out, DMCA works well in the US

      Say what?

    7. Re:Common sense by Pieroxy · · Score: 2

      Europe has a directive called EUCD (the very equivalent of the DMCA) that has been ratified around 2006 and laws have popped up in every country for the application. It is now very much in effect in all of the EU countries.

      --
      Write boring code, not shiny code!
    8. Re:Common sense by colinrichardday · · Score: 2

      Perhaps DragonWriter was questioning the claim that it worked well, not the claim the texh pundits said it worked well.

    9. Re:Common sense by dumuzi · · Score: 2

      By America I presume you are including Canada, as we also have no common sense. Remember this and this and this and this, all recent articles from slashdot about Canada's boneheadedness.

  2. Thank you, Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We in Canada thank you for being smarter than us. Our prime minister still has his nose up American corporate ass.

    1. Re:Thank you, Europe by Ironhandx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes. We are.

      The Harper Government is putting heavy pressure on the CBC not to televise it. The other news interests are being pushed down by their corporate overlords.

      People in Ontario: This is what you have voted into our Canadian government. Even Ignatieff was better than this.

    2. Re:Thank you, Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, is Canada protesting like places across Europe?

      Not that I'm aware of. There isn't really anything that people in Canada can do. Our weird political system has given someone with less than 50% of the popular support a *majority government*. That means we have a fascist party in government with no effective means to control them.

      Hopefully they will be gone after the next election. The people up here aren't too bright and might re-elect them.

    3. Re:Thank you, Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm so sick of that argument.

      The conservatives only got 40% of the popular vote, so 60% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power....

      Ok, but look at the alternatives...

      30% voted for the NDP, that means 70% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
      19% voted for the Liberals, that means 81% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
      6% voted for the Bloc, that means 94% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
      4% voted for the Greens, that means 96% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...

      Yes, I can understand that the "first past the post" riding system might cause a party that has less then 40% of the popular vote can still grab 54% of the seats, but look at the system in the US, it causes the same issues. 2000 election had Al Gore with 48.4% of the popular vote who lost to George Bush with 47.9%.

      So the party that had the largest percentage of people voting for them ended up forming the government and you are calling this Fascist? I think that might better suit a system where you write off the fact that the majority voted for one party and say they shouldn't be in power and that a less popular party should be in charge.

    4. Re:Thank you, Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your use of profanity to bolster your argument betrays your intelligence level. Better luck next time.

    5. Re:Thank you, Europe by Ironhandx · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Will take me a little while to find it again but Harper had funding cuts for the CBC put into his budget back when they were reporting on some scientists that harper was gagging.

      CBC folded, they removed the story from their web site, the only place you can find it now is on independent sites.

      http://asweweresaying.blogspot.com/2010/10/scientists-defy-harper-gag-rules.html

      The above is the story.

      The CBC has been saying "How high" every time harper says "jump" ever since.

    6. Re:Thank you, Europe by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's weird is when the party has less than 50% of votes, but more than 50% of seats.

    7. Re:Thank you, Europe by Formalin · · Score: 2

      First past the post destroys that though. When you have to appeal to the largest base, you end up with two parties, generally. It's easier to corrupt two parties, also.

      GP is saying with a small percentage of the votes, the party obtains >50% of the seats, and thus absolute power (not that they are the biggest party with small percentage, that's not the problem). Not very democratic, is it.

      A group of parties with sub 50% of the vote working together in coalition is a good thing.
      One party with sub 50% of the vote having absolute majority, being able to pass laws without listening to the others is very problematic. This is what first past the post creates.

      So in PR - we have say.. 6 parties. 21%, 20%, 20%, 10%, 15%, 14%.
      To pass something, they need support of at least three parties in this situation, any combination that will be >50%. Say 21 + 15 + 10 + 14 support it, so the law is supported by 60% of the electors, or at the minimum, 50%.

      in FPTP, with the same results - the 21% party can get much more of the seats, and have absolute power. (if the results were like this in every riding, they would get 100% of the seats). Evil. 21% can then dictate over the others until the next election.

      There are even stranger incidents with first past the post, where if the party that wins less seats wins them by a larger percentage - they can have more of the popular vote, and end up having the minority of seats.

  3. Human Rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The FFII reports they convinced the Parliament of The Netherlands to adopt an anti-ACTA motion:

    [Second Chamber] asks the Government not to sign the ACTA treaty as long as it is not conclusively established that the treaty does not conflict with fundamental rights,

    As Amnesty, OSCE, Human Rights Commissioner Reding and others have their doubts it looks like a poison pill.

    1. Re:Human Rights by zogre · · Score: 2

      I figured it was because the USA and our corporate media interests made them an offer they couldn't refuse...

    2. Re:Human Rights by sdguero · · Score: 2

      They are more easily bought by corporate interests and their voters are less informed.

  4. TFA missing by CurryCamel · · Score: 5, Informative

    TFA is just a LMGTFY??
    This must be a new low.

    1. Re:TFA missing by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Funny

      Here's a corrected link to the actual article.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    2. Re:TFA missing by SailorSpork · · Score: 2

      Didn't you hear? It's BYOTFA now.

  5. Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. by pavon · · Score: 4, Informative

    It looks like ACTA is pretty much dead in the EU, as it will only enter into force if all the EU countries agree to it unanimously. However, it will still remain in force for the other signatories as long as at least 6 states sign it. So far United States, Australia, Canada, Japan, Morocco, New Zealand, Singapore, and South Korea have all signed it, so at least three of those need to back out for the treaty to die completely.

    1. Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. by mycroft16 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With SOPA and PIPA, they were all the internet talked about for days leading up to the blackout... the word was effectively gotten out. With ACTA, no one is talking about it or what it means. We need that same level of dialogue. We need front page announcements on reddit, wikipedia, etc. PCIP is also a new one working through the House and Senate that involves creating a database of ip->customer mappings and tracking web history for 18 months to look for illegal activity. Not getting talked about either. We really need to keep up on what's going through Congress and other governmental agencies and kill them long before they are days from a vote. They shouldn't make it out of committees, or even into committees.

    2. Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. by sgent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Very unlikely to happen in the US. The administration hasn't even submitted it to congress for ratification yet. Also, remember treaties need 2/3 support of the senate, and there are an easy 34 senators that oppose this.

    3. Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. by pavon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Except that administration is claiming that they don't need senate confirmation to ratify the treaty. So the US will be counted among the 6 needed at least initially. Furthermore to be over-tuned in the courts, someone will have to show standing. Since ACTA does not require the implementation of any new laws in the US, that will be hard to do. The only thing I can think of is if a Senator sued because the treaty limited their ability to change the law. But even then I could see the courts denying standing, unless a law contradicting ACTA is actually passed.

  6. Answer: by sakdoctor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Corruption

  7. They are just bound and determined... by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...to take all the fun out of the internet.

    Man...glad I was here to see the wild west days of it back in '92-'93 and just after that.

    Then again, I remember going to the gates at airports to greet people as they got off the plane, and even before metal detectors going to the gates.

    Sigh...the US use to be a much more free place.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  8. A word of caution by Maimun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am Bulgarian living in Bulgaria right now. I am as happy as any of you about the ditching of ACTA by our government. But! They change their minds twice a day. The position of the other European governments against ACTA, I think, is based (to a certain extent at least) on principles and integrity. Our government is silly, uninformed, clueless and it may easily jump back on the ACTA bandwagon if put under pressure. They were clearly ready to force the ratification of ACTA on the Parliament. What changed their minds was the protest wave -- the government are populist and easily bend before protests. However, they bend easily before anything. So, let's wait and see...

    1. Re:A word of caution by D,Petkow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am Bulgarian living in Bulgaria right now. I am as happy as any of you about the ditching of ACTA by our government. But! They change their minds twice a day. The position of the other European governments against ACTA, I think, is based (to a certain extent at least) on principles and integrity. Our government is silly, uninformed, clueless and it may easily jump back on the ACTA bandwagon if put under pressure. They were clearly ready to force the ratification of ACTA on the Parliament. What changed their minds was the protest wave -- the government are populist and easily bend before protests. However, they bend easily before anything. So, let's wait and see...

      the funniest thing is that the minister who took responsibility for signing the ACTA treaty early said on national television that he is under a lot of pressure to sign lots of paperwork everyday (around 100+ papers on a weekly basis) and he said quote "i'm sorry for not reading this document throughly, before accepting to sign it - my team of experts said it was nothing to qworry about it" They are truly clueless and they admit it, lulz.

    2. Re:A word of caution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Far better to be clueless and admit it than to be simply clueless, which appears to be the position of most of our politicians.

    3. Re:A word of caution by Stevecrox · · Score: 2

      It's the major flaw with democracy, most western societies have career politicians who have never done anything other than be a politician. As a result they have little experiences or knowledge outside of their bubble meaning they don't know when a lobbyist is lying or when they speak the truth.

      To make matters worse modern media has descended in to sensationalism which only allows for sound bites, you have various papers like The Sun pushing for action when something outrageous happens. While this is important, an event may have occurred where no one was to blame or existing infrastructure is enough. But politicians have to be seen to do something or they are crucified often the measures they take only make things worse (see airport security).

      It isn't just the tech world that has this problems, the recent Conservative parties big NHS reform has been placed on the scrap heap because they aimed far to much at ideology and didn't engage the people who would implement it. You can find similar bills in just about every sector of society.

      I'd argue the only way to fix this problem is to ban politicians from standing for office for more than 2 terms and encouraging secondary houses like the house of lords. An unelected body made up of experts in their fields is what is needed to put the brakes on the more insane idea's that democracy produces.

      Two elected bodies just makes the problem worse, sadly no politician is going to going to along those terms as they are part of the problem.

    4. Re:A word of caution by iive · · Score: 2

      The problem is that the government is not reversing any of its past actions.
      It is not removing its signature under ACTA, its parliamentary group would not even let a proposal for official refusal of ratification to be presented to the parliament.
      For all that matters, Bulgaria can just ratify ACTA tomorrow.

      The official stance is to delay until the EU parliament makes a decision and then to repeat whatever that decision is. It seems that the ACTA proponents would try to delay the vote in the EU parliament. They hope that the matter would fade away from public conscious and at some point they would do a sudden silent vote on it, like the first one.
      Whenever that happens, Bulgaria can ratify ACTA on the very next day.

    5. Re:A word of caution by deblau · · Score: 2

      If only our politicians in the US were as honest.

      --
      This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
  9. The fight for democracy by biodata · · Score: 2

    Thanks to the young people of Europe for reminding us that we have to fight for democracy over and over again. The thieves will always try to take it back unless we stand up to them, and the politicians will often be looking the other way.

    --
    Korma: Good
    1. Re:The fight for democracy by k6mfw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it seems it is young people of Europe that take it to the streets, not much of that in USA protesting against such laws. however, there are other protests but media coverage is sparse. It should be noted many from former Eastern Bloc countries take issue with laws like ACTA because they know what it is like to live in a country with censorship and compared to without.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
  10. Dope! by zooblethorpe · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah but they underestimated that EU citizens are not fucking stupid, and doped up on high fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants.

    You forgot all the Adderall.

    C'mon, kids -- you know the schtick! Better Living Through Chemistry!

    (...goes and hides in his den and looks for that Canuckistan immigration packet...)

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
    1. Re:Dope! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      welcome to ACTA north, currently being quietly forced through parliament AGAINST the will of the CITIZENS. Text has been presented to the Canuckistan government in secret, after text had been prepared by FOREIGN agitators, influencing OUR way of life. Everyone, do the world a favour and kill and American politician, executive, or lawyer.

    2. Re:Dope! by alexo · · Score: 2

      And the moral of the story: NEVER EVER give any Canadian political party a majority. They cannot be trusted with it.

  11. Re:Wrong target by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They already tried that by telling me that downloading a couple of tracks from the Internet was equivalent to nicking a car. They then showed that piracy is masterminded by some half-naked medieval torturer with glowing red eyes and a red hot branding iron. Seems so fucking cool to me that I of course had to give it a try.

    It was disappointing, but I at least came away with some free music.

    --
    -- Using the preview button since 2005
  12. Internet vs Establishment. We are winning by __aawzag621 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems governments can't ignore us when we coordinate via the internet and represent the interests of internet users. Big changes are happening despite all of the govs trying to shut down the internet. We are living through serious history, interesting times.

  13. ACTA source EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Text of the treaty:
    http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/en/11/st12/st12196.en11.pdf

    Main aim of this legislation seems to be exporting the US legal approach to the rest of the world. Tactics like secret negotiations, participants having to sign non-disclosure agreement intended to implement this more or less under the radar of public scrutiny.

    Please take into account that the US patent system is considered "broken" through awarding trivial patents, patents on software, genetic patents, patent trolls, corporate patent wars.

    Like the mission to Iraq the US has again created a coalition of the willing and is using that to get more aboard. US diplomacy is exerting pressure to join. If the EU would have joined it would have very difficult for third world countries to evade joining. That would definitely have impacted the price and availability of generic pharmaceuticals.

    That legal approach includes for instance the damages calculation which led to obscene claims in the US and also would enable a business model for law firms to extort consumers sharing a few files.

    Please note that this treaty aims to cover all Intellectual Property rights. The implications for the Internet (ISPs having to cooperate) draws the most attention up to now.

    More specifically it will enable Monsanto to enforce their genetic seed patents outside the US. So do expect them to sue farmers saving part of their harvest for seeding next year. Given the wide contamination by pollen seed stocks are inevitably contaminated by GM material.

    The US political system is thoroughly corrupted. Corporate interest like MPAA's Dodd (an ex-senator mind you) is openly threatening to retract campaign contributions. The failure of the US political system in their fiduciary duty to protect citizens/voters/consumers against exploitation by the economic system is of truly epic proportions.

    Corporate interest simply don't have the same level of influence in Europe.

    However now the very secretive approach has been exposed, the very text will be studied much more thoroughly. For now ACTA seems dead in the water indeed.

    Nice to see international grass roots cooperation to stop this (now more that 2.3 million signatures:
    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/eu_save_the_internet/?tta

  14. Actually, yes, in America too. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Informative

    I don't know how or why people have kept missing this, but the United States has not ratified ACTA either, and there is about zero chance it is going to.

    A U.S. representative signed it, but it was never ratified.

    Pull your heads out, folks.

  15. Get a clue. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

    The U.S. hasn't ratified it, either! That puts in in exactly the SAME position as Bulgaria: signed, but not ratified. So it has no force within the USA.

  16. No surprise by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, I don't think opposition from former Eastern Bloc countries like Bulgaria and Poland surprises anyone really, nor do I expect their dissent to convince any of the proponents to back down, particularly the US. On the contrary, I expect they'll use that to fuel their argument about the necessity of ACTA.

    Good to see Germany and the Netherlands opposing it though. The economic powerhouse of Germany cannot be ignored, and their opposition makes it politically easier for other countries to voice their dissent as well.

    --
    https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere