Slashdot Mirror
JotForm.com Gets Shut Down SOPA-Style
itwbennett writes "In a post on the company blog, JotForm.com cofounder Aytekin Tank alerts users that 'a US government agency has temporarily suspended' the jotform.com domain. He explains that it is part of an 'ongoing investigation' of content posted to its site by a user. Although which user and what content haven't yet been disclosed, there is speculation about forms used for a phishing attack on a South African bank. JotForm hosts over two million user-generated forms, and uses software to block fraudulent accounts (65,000 so far), so you can see there's plenty of opportunity for mischief."
A lot of people haven't heard of Slashdot. Would that make it right if it were taken offline on the arbitrary say-so of some government functionary?
Dog is my co-pilot.
away from the authority of a shoot first ask questions later country.
It was my understanding that in the United States, law enforcement (of any kind) is obligated to use the "least intrusive means" they reasonably can to effect an arrest or seizure.
In cases like this, blocking the domain name is so obviously the opposite of "least intrusive", I wonder if they have grounds to prosecute under 18 US 242. I know I would consider it, if this were done to me or my company.
A legitimate business was shut down globally for an unknown length of time because one of their customers was doing something wrong. Instead of working with the company to stop it like, oh, I don't know, every other internet business ever, they shot first and asked questions later.
It's the incompetence we've all come to expect from law enforcement that either don't understand or don't care about the consequences of their actions as soon as a computer's involved.
SPECULATION: Jotform was using GoDaddy when this happened, and have decided to move every other domain they own off GoDaddy ASAP. The worry is that GoDaddy is following law enforcement requests without asking any questions. No idea if a court order or not. In either case, Jotform is having to heal with hundred thousands broken accounts because GoDaddy rolled over or because one judge somewhere saw only the law enforcement side of the case. The great majority of Jotform accounts are used for legitimate purposes. This is NOT like MegaUpload. You cannot make the argument that Jotform's goal is to break any law. They helped a great many businesses. It is pro big corporation actions like this that will hold our economy back, not the threat of a free internet as some politicians believe.
Looks like not.
Neither story covering it mentions a court order or a subpoena; one of them says that "it may have been done without a court order."
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/secret-service-asks-for-shutdown-of-legit-website-over-user-content-godaddy-complies.ars
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/16/successful-online-startup-kicked-off-domain-without-stated-reason/
Check your premises.
I thought this was EXACTLY the worry that Facebook, Google, Wikimedia, etc. had. The worry was that a user posting "problem material" could get an entire site pulled without a court order. It looks like this is EXACTLY what happened here. (Though I am still unsure if a court order was made or not. It seems like there was no court order.)
All the talk of what happens when your data is in the cloud and the business is sold or shutters itself, here is another example. Not only do you have to worry about your dates security and availability for those reasons, now the feds can shut down a service you may use for god knows what important aspects of your business, but you can bet your perfectly legal and confidential business records are now available to the feds sans-warrant. Yeah, cloud computing is the end-all be-all. Think again, get the buzz words out of your head, and your head out of the 'cloud'.
Silence is a state of mime.
You can even see this in the comments on the Jotforms blog. About a quarter of the comments are, "I paid you [Jotforms] for service. It is YOUR responsibility to keep your service up! It is not my responsibility as a customer to deal with the Feds." From a paying customer point of view, I can see where they are coming from. Though what they should really be thinking is, "The government think's I am customer using an illegal service."
sure seems to me that every CIO now has the fiduciary duty to move mission critical domains away from GoDaddy, registering with them at this point is no more dependable then running a server out of an intern's basement to save space in the datacenter
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Without warrant, due process or subpoena - on an anonymous accusation alone - their business was probably just ruined. Because a cloud company that loses it's reputation as a stable data location is DOA.
If one has reasonable cause, the next step is to get a court order. The above linked articles indicate that it is extremely unlikely that such was done.
Furthermore, the linked articles state that the business in question has, on their own initiative, taken down 65K bad forms.
There may have been something amiss with some of their customer's data, but there is no way in hell that this was the appropriate response. There is no way that taking down this site without due process prevented a nuclear or biological attack, or any other 24-esque scenario.
Check your premises.
Goddamn right.
I'm a U.S. citizen, and I'm so fucking sick and tired of the shit my government is doing lately, particularly this shit. Since we obviously can't vote our way out of this crap (since all players are bought long before they even get their fucking name on a ballot), what's next? Half the people in this country don't even care that their rights are being shit upon and just want to go watch NASCAR or Keeping Up With the Kardashians. The rest are split between the people that still have faith in their government (although I can't see how, not anymore) and those that think the whole fucking thing is FUBAR and gave up long ago.
This country is going to end up in civil war again. If I were a foreign business that had any type of connection to the United States, I would get the fuck out ASAP.
This country is going to end up in civil war again.
Probably not. I doubt one region of the country is so enamored with the federal government that it would be willing to take up arms and battle the rest of the nation to defend it. The first civil war was fought over states rights, among other things, and there was a pretty clear line between the industrial north and the agricultural south. Our present day issues are not so much a battle of conflicting ideologies and regional economies, but the increasing oppressiveness and financial abuse of the common man by the ruling elite. Yes, that old chestnut. So this is less likely to turn into another Civil War (or War Between the States, if you will), and more something resembling the American Revolution, if anything.
In some ways, I agree with your point.
But I've since re-imagined the War between the states since we had the "Tea Party" march on Washington so that Wall Street tycoons could get more tax breaks. Oh, and so that history books wouldn't bring up inconvenient facts of history about the founding fathers -- because delusional hero worship is so very healthy...
I now think that the South was NOT REALLY fighting for states rights. The Civil War was really a class war. The 1% who had slaves, wanted the rest of the workers who had to compete with slave labor to say; "Hey, you Northern oppressors -- we want to import cheap goods and not have to buy American, because we can't compete by selling good not made by slave labor."
The Slave Masters wanted everyone in the South to say; "WE are being harmed by the North economically" -- when really, slavery probably reduced wages for MOST Southerners.
>> So if there is another civil war -- it will be between the people fighting for the Common Good, and those people who are convinced that they are destined to be a CEO.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"