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Fair Labor Association Finds Foxconn Factory "First Class," Says Labor Watchdog
Richard.Tao writes "The Fair Labor Association found that Apple's plant where iPhones and iPads are far better than those at garment factories or other facilities elsewhere in the country. A quote: 'The lead investigator stated "The facilities are first-class; the physical conditions are way, way above average of the norm."' Which leaves the question, what is the acceptable norm?"
It's not Apple's plant. They're the biggest electronics factory in the world and make products for Dell, HP, Nintendo, Microsoft, Google, and more. Seems like a Greenpeace situation where Apple gets singled out because it generates more media coverage. Apple has actually been cited as the most proactive when it comes to monitoring work conditions in the factories they contract with.
Over three weeks, some 35,000 workers will be interviewed about 30 at a time to answer questions anonymously, entering their responses onto Apple iPads.
They are literate and the best job available is a factory job?
Thats worse than India
Is anyone actually surprised by this? Did anyone actually think they might say the factory is a pile of shit?
Memorable quotes for
Looker (1981)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/quotes [imdb.com]
"John Reston: Television can control public opinion more effectively than armies of secret police, because television is entirely voluntary. The American government forces our children to attend school, but nobody forces them to watch T.V. Americans of all ages *submit* to television. Television is the American ideal. Persuasion without coercion. Nobody makes us watch. Who could have predicted that a *free* people would voluntarily spend one fifth of their lives sitting in front of a *box* with pictures? Fifteen years sitting in prison is punishment. But 15 years sitting in front of a television set is entertainment. And the average American now spends more than one and a half years of his life just watching television commercials. Fifty minutes, every day of his life, watching commercials. Now, that's power. "
"The United States has it's own propaganda, but it's very effective because people don't realize that it's propaganda. And it's subtle, but it's actually a much stronger propaganda machine than the Nazis had but it's funded in a different way. With the Nazis it was funded by the government, but in the United States, it's funded by corporations and corporations they only want things to happen that will make people want to buy stuff. So whatever that is, then that is considered okay and good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it really serves people's thinking - it can stupify and make not very good things happen."
-- Crispin Glover: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000417/bio [imdb.com]
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, CIA Director
"It's only logical to assume that conspiracies are everywhere, because that's what people do. They conspire. If you can't get the message, get the man.'' -- Mel Gibson
[1967] Jim Garrison Interview "In a very real and terrifying sense, our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society. Of course, you can't spot this trend to fascism by casually looking around. You can't look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they won't be there. We won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. We're not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isn't the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here, the process is more subtle, but the end results can be the same. I've learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I've always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Government's basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I've come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, "Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism." I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
"The Fair Labor Association found that Apple's plant where iPhones and iPads are far better than those at garment factories or other facilities elsewhere in the country. A quote: 'The lead investigator stated "The facilities are first-class; the physical conditions are way, way above average of the norm."' Which leaves the question, what is the acceptable norm?"
Translation:
So the manacles are in better condition, they're punished with lifetime imprisonment versus death in other places, and the slaves are kept in slightly better conditions - but are still slaves given that one risks imprisonment or death if you speak out against Foxconn or the like.
So this organization is only a whitewash group for Apple.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
They inspected them for less than a week.
Yeah, alright. That's one swell job you guys have done.
How about some surprise inspections over the course of the next 6 months at least?
I make no judgement on these factories. I have no doubt that I'd never, ever work in one, or let anyone I cared about work in one. At the same time, I'm not convinced they're not a big step up for the average Chinese person. Remember your history lessons? In this country (USA), we know something about horrible working conditions. Foxconn doesn't sound as bad as Triangle Shirtwaist Company, or any of the mine towns with the company store and wage-slavery. And people voluntarily went there just as people are voluntarily working at Foxconn.
The average work conditions have a lot to do with the environment. Sustenance farming was pretty miserable - is still pretty miserable, it's still around. There are still a huge number of people who would work in terrible conditions just for the privilege of a steady source of food (as opposed to fickle harvests).
This isn't to say we should get complacent - the moment we as a people declare the status quo "good enough", we've lost.
Having said that, there's a lot of people (many who will be posting in this article, I'm sure) that are convinced these factories are some sort of prison with forced-labor and the evil specter of Steve Jobs himself whipping workers until they're forced to jump. And that seems less productive than, you know, thinking.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
This article doesn't present any findings, and it's pretty clear the FLA in being interviewed only meant to explain who they are and how they will be investigating the working conditions at Apple's suppliers. The thing about working conditions is just a sound bite, no doubt taken out of context, to draw readers to what is really a pretty boring article.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-17/foxconn-auditor-finds-tons-of-issues-.html
There's little of substance to the story. It was posted so that Apple haters could rush in, out of breath, and bash Apple for "slave labor" and other goofy crap. Slashdot is a Google/Linux advocacy site, and Apple is one of their competitors.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-17/foxconn-auditor-finds-tons-of-issues-.html?cmpid=sfc
How does that jive?
I bet its written by jews and chinks
Most people commenting about Foxconn have lost all perspective because they allow themselves to be blinded by Apple hate.
Let me explain why bashing Apple and Foxconn about this is so, so foolish.
1.) Poorer working conditions aren't exclusive to Apple's factories, or even Foxconn.
If you're trying to uphold your ideal working conditions on workers who create products you use, please take a step back and stop buying any product from any store. I can confidently tell you that all the products you use: your computer, tech gadgets, electronics, shoes, clothes, etc. are all made by workers in poor conditions, often even poorer than that of Foxconn. Instead of protesting against Apple/Foxconn, vote with your wallet instead of bitching in an online forum and feeling self-righteous after doing so.
2.) Workers are -happy- about their job and working conditions. It's you who feel unhappy about them.
Many workers are happy about their job and working conditions, in Foxconn and other such factories. These factories provide a lot of things (not just money) that they would never be able to dream of: a shelter over their head, varied meals, water, electricity, and more. Many of these people are uneducated and would be jobless otherwise. They need and are happy about these jobs. Your protesting will NOT IMPROVE THEIR LIVES. You will render them jobless (as you boycott these products and companies pull out of these countries) and effectively kill off their means of living.
3.) Progress takes time.
Most Americans have forgotten their past when there were still slaves, often in FAR worse conditions than that of China. It's been proven that a country needs time to develop, and attempting to shortcut the process will lead to disastrous results. 10 years ago, these people whom you claim to be working in "poor conditions" were starving because a drought wiped out their crops. Their lives have improved, and will improve as long as they have jobs.
Have been there. This factory is way beyond garment factories in terms of attractiveness. The Shenzhen campus, which has about 600k employees, makes not just Apple but HTC, Sony, Panasonic, you-name-it. They are owned by Taiwan, employ management from Hong Kong, employ Cantonese labor , and are governed by Mandarin communist party staff. They are ISO certified. There are so many reasons to run this factory right, it's kind of surprising that activists who are really concerned would pick on a factory like this in the first place, as opposed to say the garment industry in Guangdong. http://www.greenpeace.org/eastasia/press/releases/toxics/2010/textile-industrial-pollution/ My theory is that White People have their own "ju ju" words. Like Cameroonians who are scared to death of owls, environmentalists have an exaggerated sense of risk when something is technological and involves anything with toxics. A lot of cognitive risk dissonance over high tech and brown people. Personally, I think it's kind of cool that the Taiwanese, Hong Kong, Japanese, Communists, etc. get along here and run a factory that produces the coolest gadgets ever produced by humans. At the rate they have grown, I'm sure the auditor will find lots of violations. But the headline is accurate... the auditor knows within a few hours that they are NOT in the textile hell-hole up the river, or the smelter, or the copper mine.
Gently reply
Everything has been better when trade unions existed and they had power and really were protecting labors rights.
And that is socialism. But after the capitalism came, they have been hunted down or limited their power so corporations can rip everyone off as much as they want and because competition the products quality has gone down as well while amount of workers kept minimum.
In China, so many such strong trade unions did not exist. And same problem is on many other countries, so no wonder capitalistic corporations goes where they can hijack peoples rights and possibilities better.
The Reuters article is just one of a couple following the F.L.A.'s inspection of the Foxconn Plant. There is a slightly longer, but much more critical article by the New York Times. Looks as if /. editor's are doing is some editorializing of their own, too. From the "what-is-the-right-question" department, eh? How about from the "now-we-are-shilling-for-apple" department?
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard Feynman
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory .
An on topic story of working, the factory, what you can have made and the reality of the production lines
Many cheap hands are cheaper than robots.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Because all the unhappy ones are dead :(
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
One of these options is painless, which one did Foxconn choose?
But why then is Foxconn converting to robots? REUTERS "Foxconn to rely more on robots; could use 1 million in 3 years" http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/01/us-foxconn-robots-idUSTRE77016B20110801
Gently reply
No.... That is not the reason they pick apple to slur...
The real reason is because the 'labor' people and NGO will start to CHARGE apple and others to have some 'certification'.
It is like a Mafia....
'If you do not pay us....people will think bad things about you....'
That is the main reason...
Not that they care about someone in a third world country.
Oh, this one is much better than the others.
Many workers are happy about their job and working conditions, in Foxconn and other such factories. These factories provide a lot of things (not just money) that they would never be able to dream of: a shelter over their head, varied meals, water, electricity, and more. Many of these people are uneducated and would be jobless otherwise.
That doesn't preclude making conditions good from the start, and not simply good compared to the surrounding countryside.
They need and are happy about these jobs. Your protesting will NOT IMPROVE THEIR LIVES. You will render them jobless (as you boycott these products and companies pull out of these countries) and effectively kill off their means of living.
The same argument that was used to justify slavery. It got abolished, and peoples lives improved
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Apple isn't going to lean to hard on its suppliers, its all about the bottom line. After this drops off the news cycle, people will go back to 'Thinking Different' and not caring where their bright and shiny gadgets come from. Shareholders only care about profitability, not human welfare. As long as Apple keeps on producing the next iWant, workers in the cheap labor producing countries are out of luck.
CNN has a nice article that puts "The Fair Labor Association" in proper perspective:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/17/opinion/nova-apple-foxconn/index.html/
Those aren't great examples.
The companies you've listed aren't really "product line" companies. Yes, they have some of their own (rebranded) lines, but their primary business is selling other people's products (Nike, Reebok, Guess, Apple, Nintendo, whatever).
That being said, I once knew somebody who worked as the middleman between a U.S. brand corp and Chinese manufacturers. Their contacts in the U.S. were ruthless and in many cases absolute dickheads. For whatever reason they could find, they'd slam the Chinese manufacturers with extra fees, penalties, etc. It became obvious fairly quickly that they considered the Chinese manufacturers a sort of sub-class... and the workers at said manufacturer weren't even considered at all.
It's not just Apple, or even Foxconn, it's big business in the west overall. Given the way the corporatocracy treats locals as an inferior subspecies, it's not exactly unexpected. So long as the majority of consumers buy their products with no consideration to how they end up here, that's the way it will be.
Don't weep for Apple. It's about time *somebody* noticed this sort of shit going all and asked their favoured corp an important question: "why?"
One can only hope that it will result in some improvement, and - as Apple is currently a market leader - that it will eventually push other companies to follow.
This audit was done by a company Apple hired to whitewash their PR problems. This is not an independent audit.
Instead of the industry standard 4 hours of sleep Foxconn employees get 5 or 6 hours of sleep on Chinese New Years and Mao's birthday. They also receive two bowls of rice instead of one. If they are awoken early they get an extra cup of tea and biscuit before working an extra 12 hour shift.
The point is being better than the rest doesn't mean good. It's like the line out of the Two Jakes where he says "in this town I'm the leper with the most fingers".
Whatever they'll allow themselves to be whipped for. If it's abuse they should revolt. If it's agreed-upon business they should continue and rejoice that the machine is leading them toward their ends.
Government regulations and laws do the opposite of what free market does. Free market improves everybody's conditions, government deteriorates everybody's conditions.
Free market makes everybody wealthier by providing products, services that people WANT to pay for enough that it creates profit. Free market provides investment opportunities, wages and even taxes.
Government does not provide products and services that people WANT to pay for, it take upon itself to IMPOSE various ideas on what products and services should be forced onto people with the threat of violence. Government is theoretically 'non-profit', but there are plenty of individuals and corporations that make huge profits by using government violence. Government TAKES taxes, government DESTROYS investment opportunities.
Free market pulls the average living standard up but in doing so it allows some people to get WAY above average - thus income inequality will always be there with free market but so will increase of wealth.
Government pulls the average living standard down, it pretends that in doing so it will create 'income equality', while in reality the only equality that is created is equality of poverty and the real change is that the people who still get huge disproportionate income are not those who produce products and services that market wants to buy, but instead those, who are the most connected to the government and can STEAL THE MOST with government threat of violence.
You can't handle the truth.
They are owned by Taiwan, employ management from Hong Kong, employ Cantonese labor , and are governed by Mandarin communist party staff.
Makes it easy for the mainlanders to be divided against each other, much like how their military brought in troops from the countryside for the 1989 massacre.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Some of my computers are old enough to where they do have the Made in the US label(circa 2000, at that). Same with the great deal of my components such as the keyboard.
It's not as if there isn't the capacity to manufacture in the US. As an example, look up the TAA (Trade Act) compliant models of IBM-era Thinkpads, where they were made to the same degree in the US that the Foxconn-built bits were made in the PRC. They stretch from when there was actual US manufacturing up to about 5-6 years ago(e.g. T42's, T60(?)'s).
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
environmentalists have an exaggerated sense of risk when something is technological and involves anything with toxics
Yeah, those poor little stupid environmentalists. We real men on the other hand know that toxins are good for you and me and all news about them is alarmism and socialism. Our pure and shiny gadgets must not be related to anything naughty...
Listen to the show, its a simple reason why you use human hands :) - cost.
As the work becomes more complex and the cost per unit goes up, robots will be needed, until then that tech device will be done by humans in many very small, fine steps.
China gets export cash and pays its locals in its own currency - just enough for food, some basic shelter and a few extras.
So at this time the cost of local humans vs importing robots may not add up. If China can make its own robots and use them with less cash flowing out to import older production lines, expensive skills and long term more imported parts - that will be interesting.
Why waste cash until the products get extra complex or human hands get too expensive in China.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Because bonch is a user account used as an Apple shill. It is used along with other user accounts, such as cmdrpony, insightin140bytes, SharkLaser, bonch, InterestingFella, Overly critical guy, DCTech and TechGZ, to astroturf slashdot with marketing drivel and to try to control public opinion.
post and story......
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/02/17/the-fla-now-says-apples-foxconn-factories-have-tons-of-issues/
Read some more articles and realise what you are dealing with and you should know that this whole slashdot headline +article is nothing then BS! ./ getting payed to write nice things about bad companies? :)
How much is
Pretty sure when the work condition thing is over, someone will make a big deal out of the lower wages of Foxconn workers.
the activists weren't concerned with anything else than corporate sponsors to run their organization. they didn't just show up at the factory either. it's like going to NK as a controlled guest, taking hoe's an' blo and announcing everything is great.
that
is
the
real
story.
another real story would of course be checking out the sourcing factories for the assembly factories which scrape most of the profit anyways and sub-contract the really nasty work involving deadly chemicals.
I personally have spent a few months in Chinese steel mills on and off as part of my old job as an automation/GUI programmer.. The plants are dirty as you could possibly imagine, dangerous and badly maintained, but the workers I saw actually seemed quite relaxed and worked fairly normal 8 hour shifts, took lunch breaks etc. I notice the quote only focused on the physical conditions at Foxconn, but it seems like this is probably more of a management problem. The plants might be nice and clean but if the workers need to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for fear of losing their job of course some of them are going to get pretty depressed. What is the point of earning money in "clean" working conditions if you have no life, why not just jump out the window right now?
bonch is a notorious apple shill employed to astroturf slashdot to try to sway public opinion in favour of apple and against google.
Union scale in the USA, of course. Do you think this is about human rights or something?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Here in the west our factories have ZERO rate of suicide, or even the society at large.
Think about it, when was the last time you heard of a suicide story here in the west? Ever. Hmmmm....?
So screw you FLA, you commie shill.
Just because you wouldn't be willing to do the job doesn't mean that they aren't proud of the work that they do.
Yes there are going to be instances of neglect and abuse, but this company employs nearly a MILLION people. Statistically speaking they should be having all kinds of things happen that don't usually happen at your company. It might happen once to your company over a decade, but with their size all those anomalies look like patterns.
People are making livable wages and have relatively safe work environments. Look at our on history for poor labor condition and realize that China is going through the exact same growth pains. You cannot simply demand that they jump through all the learning that we've done through the decades. People assume that just paying people more is going to solve problems, but honestly more money in the economy isn't going to necessarily make lives better it will likely just make prices go up. Then in reality if the other factories don't follow suit you're actually hurting the other people in the economy.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-17/foxconn-auditor-finds-tons-of-issues-.html
Nothing to see here...
These are not the slave workers you are looking for.
Apple executives can go about their business.
Move along to the next post ..
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
MY slave master provides better working conditions than YOUR slave master.
But the Chinese workers at these offshore provider manufacturing companies are ALL treated as badly as slaves in the old US south. REGARDLESS of whether they're officially "indentured servants" or not.
The fact that some companies treat their employees worse than Foxconn/Apple does NOT mean that ANY of them treat their employees with anything even RESEMBLING dignity or respect.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
which are barely any better than pre-WW2 labor conditions in Europe and the US.
1) Are the inspectors telling the truth about what they saw?
2) Was what they saw the truth?
When Red X representatives visited Theresienstadt/Terezin Fortress ([one of] the "Arbeit Macht Frei" camps), they fell for the fiction the Nazis choreographed of it being a nice, pleasant place for the Jews to live.
No sh*t Sherlock. You only had to read Slashdot like 4 years ago to get a full rundown on Foxconn and working conditions in China. We're targeting Foxconn when that's one of the best factories in China for working conditions. The problem isn't Foxconn, it's Chinese factory labor. China has labor laws that are completely unenforced because of how lucrative American corporate sponsored cheap labor is for the country.
I hope that conditions are bearable and will improve, but it's irrelevant. Those manufacturing jobs must come home to support healthy U.S. economy.
Before squealing starts how some basement dweller is "not willing to pay 10 times more" for their toys, for one, it would not be nearly as much. Research discussed on Slashdot recently produced numbers of around 23%. I'd be willing to pay 23% more for healthy U.S. economy or go without. If you don't, that's tough for you. There needs to be a nationwide referendum in the U.S. if you want to protect U.S. economy by punitive tariffs on scumbag outsources, or give your money to chinese communists who have wet dreams of eventually destroying the U.S. (yes they do). I have no doubt what the result would be.
...to anyone who has listened to a talk given by the neocon gaytard head of that association, who stridently believes the "free market" will solve everything. Sure, I believe everything out of that outfit.....
of all the pieces of shit we've had to eat, foxconn has by far the best presentation so far
How dare anyone sit in judgment of China for trying to better the lives of its people through wealth creation. If you want to judge the government for its assaults on freedom thats great.. but to judge the country because the people want a better life and are doing the same shit we did to make better lives for ourselves.. its bullshit... tired old dogmatic bullshit.
You can start with conditions that are good by the First World, instead of dragging down the world to the Third World's level. The conditions are thus improved and slavery is bypassed.
These factories need to be in much better conditions, and not a moment too soon for apologists like you.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
In addition, these people that shill for WM will do anything to marginalize opposition, even if it means they corrupt the city council.
Should they try to flee, the government will be more than happy to make it a futile move. Especially given that the US can be anywhere it wants, doing what it wants.
The companies would then be forcibly repatriated, and run by people that won't repeat the same mistake - or sabotage the company.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
*really?* I remember what industry used to look like - in the first world - back in the heyday of the trade union. Health and safety didn't exist. Good luck if you were black, or Jewish, or gay, or female. If you fell out with the union rep, you were on your own. And in the meantime, you were being tapped for union dues that went to fund a party espousing some of the most fucked-up economic policies the UK ever saw.
While as a consequence from the glorious butchering of the UK's internal job market, you created a worse-off situation with people that have no jobs whatsoever and an increasing propensity to commit crime. Perhaps your Tory deity should have thought about that long-term consequence instead of going like a butcher to unionized countryfolk.
What creates better conditions for workers is economic progress, so that workers don't have to go and work in a paper mill where they lose fingers as a matter of routine, or a shipyard where workers fell from gantries every week.
The problem is that you advocate conditions where businesses would allow those kind of conditions to come back. In addition, you cause a regression to a time where business would be able to be authoritarian with no check against it such as done with labor unions.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Chavs existed long before Maggie; they just had no visibility. Crime in the UK has declined since the implementation of the 1980s reforms. And I don't think anyone is talking about repealing the HSE; but the fact is that when a country becomes rich enough, people refuse to work in poor conditions. It happened in the UK, in the US, and it will happen in China.
[FUCK BETA]
Buy fake "independent" organizations to pitch your lies and propaganda, so that your minions of obedient little clo.. err, customers will still feel good about buying your overpriced crap.
Oh, wait... THAT isn't "different" at all, it's American business as usual.