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Fair Labor Association Finds Foxconn Factory "First Class," Says Labor Watchdog
Richard.Tao writes "The Fair Labor Association found that Apple's plant where iPhones and iPads are far better than those at garment factories or other facilities elsewhere in the country. A quote: 'The lead investigator stated "The facilities are first-class; the physical conditions are way, way above average of the norm."' Which leaves the question, what is the acceptable norm?"
It's not Apple's plant. They're the biggest electronics factory in the world and make products for Dell, HP, Nintendo, Microsoft, Google, and more. Seems like a Greenpeace situation where Apple gets singled out because it generates more media coverage. Apple has actually been cited as the most proactive when it comes to monitoring work conditions in the factories they contract with.
They inspected them for less than a week.
Yeah, alright. That's one swell job you guys have done.
How about some surprise inspections over the course of the next 6 months at least?
I make no judgement on these factories. I have no doubt that I'd never, ever work in one, or let anyone I cared about work in one. At the same time, I'm not convinced they're not a big step up for the average Chinese person. Remember your history lessons? In this country (USA), we know something about horrible working conditions. Foxconn doesn't sound as bad as Triangle Shirtwaist Company, or any of the mine towns with the company store and wage-slavery. And people voluntarily went there just as people are voluntarily working at Foxconn.
The average work conditions have a lot to do with the environment. Sustenance farming was pretty miserable - is still pretty miserable, it's still around. There are still a huge number of people who would work in terrible conditions just for the privilege of a steady source of food (as opposed to fickle harvests).
This isn't to say we should get complacent - the moment we as a people declare the status quo "good enough", we've lost.
Having said that, there's a lot of people (many who will be posting in this article, I'm sure) that are convinced these factories are some sort of prison with forced-labor and the evil specter of Steve Jobs himself whipping workers until they're forced to jump. And that seems less productive than, you know, thinking.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
This article doesn't present any findings, and it's pretty clear the FLA in being interviewed only meant to explain who they are and how they will be investigating the working conditions at Apple's suppliers. The thing about working conditions is just a sound bite, no doubt taken out of context, to draw readers to what is really a pretty boring article.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-17/foxconn-auditor-finds-tons-of-issues-.html
"The Fair Labor Association found that Apple's plant where iPhones and iPads are far better than those at garment factories or other facilities elsewhere in the country. A quote: 'The lead investigator stated "The facilities are first-class; the physical conditions are way, way above average of the norm."' Which leaves the question, what is the acceptable norm?"
Translation: So the manacles are in better condition, they're punished with lifetime imprisonment versus death in other places, and the slaves are kept in slightly better conditions - but are still slaves given that one risks imprisonment or death if you speak out against Foxconn or the like.
So this organization is only a whitewash group for Apple.
Not so. /. has the older story of the initial impressions by the FLA. The new one today (reported on by Bloomberg), instead says:
“We’re finding tons of issues,” van Heerden said en route to a meeting where FLA inspectors were scheduled to present preliminary findings to Foxconn management. “I believe we’re going to see some very significant announcements in the near future.”
Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-17/foxconn-auditor-finds-tons-of-issues-.html
Most people commenting about Foxconn have lost all perspective because they allow themselves to be blinded by Apple hate.
Let me explain why bashing Apple and Foxconn about this is so, so foolish.
1.) Poorer working conditions aren't exclusive to Apple's factories, or even Foxconn.
If you're trying to uphold your ideal working conditions on workers who create products you use, please take a step back and stop buying any product from any store. I can confidently tell you that all the products you use: your computer, tech gadgets, electronics, shoes, clothes, etc. are all made by workers in poor conditions, often even poorer than that of Foxconn. Instead of protesting against Apple/Foxconn, vote with your wallet instead of bitching in an online forum and feeling self-righteous after doing so.
2.) Workers are -happy- about their job and working conditions. It's you who feel unhappy about them.
Many workers are happy about their job and working conditions, in Foxconn and other such factories. These factories provide a lot of things (not just money) that they would never be able to dream of: a shelter over their head, varied meals, water, electricity, and more. Many of these people are uneducated and would be jobless otherwise. They need and are happy about these jobs. Your protesting will NOT IMPROVE THEIR LIVES. You will render them jobless (as you boycott these products and companies pull out of these countries) and effectively kill off their means of living.
3.) Progress takes time.
Most Americans have forgotten their past when there were still slaves, often in FAR worse conditions than that of China. It's been proven that a country needs time to develop, and attempting to shortcut the process will lead to disastrous results. 10 years ago, these people whom you claim to be working in "poor conditions" were starving because a drought wiped out their crops. Their lives have improved, and will improve as long as they have jobs.
The outcome was known as soon as the study was announced.
This group is a industry created and funded "watch dog" group trotted out when any of the funding members need some independent *cough* observers to come in and put on a media show.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Have been there. This factory is way beyond garment factories in terms of attractiveness. The Shenzhen campus, which has about 600k employees, makes not just Apple but HTC, Sony, Panasonic, you-name-it. They are owned by Taiwan, employ management from Hong Kong, employ Cantonese labor , and are governed by Mandarin communist party staff. They are ISO certified. There are so many reasons to run this factory right, it's kind of surprising that activists who are really concerned would pick on a factory like this in the first place, as opposed to say the garment industry in Guangdong. http://www.greenpeace.org/eastasia/press/releases/toxics/2010/textile-industrial-pollution/ My theory is that White People have their own "ju ju" words. Like Cameroonians who are scared to death of owls, environmentalists have an exaggerated sense of risk when something is technological and involves anything with toxics. A lot of cognitive risk dissonance over high tech and brown people. Personally, I think it's kind of cool that the Taiwanese, Hong Kong, Japanese, Communists, etc. get along here and run a factory that produces the coolest gadgets ever produced by humans. At the rate they have grown, I'm sure the auditor will find lots of violations. But the headline is accurate... the auditor knows within a few hours that they are NOT in the textile hell-hole up the river, or the smelter, or the copper mine.
Gently reply
Everything has been better when trade unions existed and they had power and really were protecting labors rights.
And that is socialism. But after the capitalism came, they have been hunted down or limited their power so corporations can rip everyone off as much as they want and because competition the products quality has gone down as well while amount of workers kept minimum.
In China, so many such strong trade unions did not exist. And same problem is on many other countries, so no wonder capitalistic corporations goes where they can hijack peoples rights and possibilities better.
So this organization is only a whitewash group for Apple.
It may turn out that that is the case, but if the only evidence you have is "I don't like their findings" then you might as well be talking about the fairies at the bottom of the garden.
Feel free to post evidence...
If any of them talk to each other about the possibility of starting a union, they serve 12 years in jail. I heard this from the source that started this whole Apple Foxconn thing... the John Stewart show. The reason we're picking on Apple is because John picked on Apple, and because they really do have the margins to increase worker wages, unlike say Dell or HP. Actually, it was a terrific show, one of the best he's done, IMO. The whole point was of course bashing Republicans on the campaign trail as usual. This time he was highlighting the common theme about making America a more "business friendly" place for corporations, something Mitt talks a lot about. So, he said let's take a look at the world's most business friendly economy - China! His point was if you take the business friendly logic to it's natural extreme, you wind up with a near dictatorship oppressing the people for the good of big business.
Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
But why then is Foxconn converting to robots? REUTERS "Foxconn to rely more on robots; could use 1 million in 3 years" http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/01/us-foxconn-robots-idUSTRE77016B20110801
Gently reply
Naturally I say something bad about Apple, and someone modbombs it. My point was that Foxconn is a lesser evil - in that they only practice a subset of the things other factories would put upon their workers. Despite this, Foxconn still treats their workers with disrespect and distrust; going against the company is lifetime-shortening move as opposed to a career limiting move in the places that formerly did such work (e.g. the US).
One can find a ton of issues but they get swept under the rug when it comes to the final report.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
There's little of substance to the story. It was posted so that Apple haters could rush in, out of breath, and bash Apple for "slave labor" and other goofy crap. Slashdot is a Google/Linux advocacy site, and Apple is one of their competitors.
I don't get how this is an article for Apple haters? An independent organization said that workers at factories that Appler uses have better working conditions than other factories and that the worst problem employees there face is boredom. How is that anti-Apple? I'm no Apple fan-boy, but the article validated what I thought all along - that working conditions in Apple's factories are no worse and probably better than in other factories.
CNN has a nice article that puts "The Fair Labor Association" in proper perspective:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/17/opinion/nova-apple-foxconn/index.html/
They are literate and the best job available is a factory job?
Thats worse than India
You expect something better than a factory job because your most marketable skill is your ability to read and write? Hate to tell you, but that rocket scientist job with NASA requires a bit more.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
Those aren't great examples.
The companies you've listed aren't really "product line" companies. Yes, they have some of their own (rebranded) lines, but their primary business is selling other people's products (Nike, Reebok, Guess, Apple, Nintendo, whatever).
That being said, I once knew somebody who worked as the middleman between a U.S. brand corp and Chinese manufacturers. Their contacts in the U.S. were ruthless and in many cases absolute dickheads. For whatever reason they could find, they'd slam the Chinese manufacturers with extra fees, penalties, etc. It became obvious fairly quickly that they considered the Chinese manufacturers a sort of sub-class... and the workers at said manufacturer weren't even considered at all.
It's not just Apple, or even Foxconn, it's big business in the west overall. Given the way the corporatocracy treats locals as an inferior subspecies, it's not exactly unexpected. So long as the majority of consumers buy their products with no consideration to how they end up here, that's the way it will be.
Don't weep for Apple. It's about time *somebody* noticed this sort of shit going all and asked their favoured corp an important question: "why?"
One can only hope that it will result in some improvement, and - as Apple is currently a market leader - that it will eventually push other companies to follow.
Thanks for translating. I'm presuming that you're aware of the manufacturing pedigree of the computer on which you're typing your comment, and that every component has come from a factory where workers have Western-style rights, working conditions, pay, sick leave, vacation etc..
I'm pleased to hear that Apple products come from factories where conditions are far better than the norm in the prevailing culture. I hope that standards can be raised in all factories. I'm pretty sure that none of the workers are slaves.
"Hate to tell you, but that rocket scientist job with NASA requires a bit more."
I think the rocket scientists will have to move to China if they want to keep doibng rocket science. NASA won't exist much longer.
your so completely full of shit, you should go to school and learn something about economics, instead of spouting off that laissez faire nonsense. It's kind of your fault that you listen to such rhetoric, which often appeals to idealistic notions, but lacks the rigor of a proper education.
- excellent "argument". ...
anyways, im up late because im in pain, from having had an ulcer today, otherwise i would go into more depth. But please stop pretending your an expert on this , until you've decided to spend a few years learning and practicing it.
- more excellent argument.
What can I say, you are full of excellent argument.
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By the way, I took this course on being more 'social' with people, they taught me this one thing: when I want to say that somebody is an "uneducated piece of retarded shill, who knows not of what he speaks", I instead must say: "excellent argument".
You can't handle the truth.
Property laws are the most basic form of government regulation. If someone beats you over the head with a bat and takes your wallet, who's to say that he didn't just "earn" your wallet? Should the government use force to protect people's property or should it simply let the fittest people survive on their own? By providing law and order, the government allows for an environment where productivity (as opposed to brute force) is rewarded most ... and if you agree with property laws then you're not advocating for a truly free market, so where do you draw the line? If you say you're only in favor of laws that increase productivity then you're of the same opinion as those who support gov't regulation in general - you just have a different opinion of which laws work and which ones don't but you both agree that the law should be used to boost productivity.
Exactly, the Fair Labor Association at its core is a conflict of interest. They are funded by the companies they report on. What company would pay them for bad press? If they release unfavorable reports, they lose their funding.
Their charter has huge gaps in it, as though designed to provide companies loopholes to hide abuse. The biggest and most glaring example is that member companies are required to disclose only some factory locations. Meaning companies can create facade factories for inspection, while the real work continues to be done behind closed doors.
Even still they don't live up to their own chartered requirements with respect to transparency and accountability. There are supposed to be regular reports on factory conditions for all member companies. There are supposed to be reports on factory locations for all member companies. When abuses are found, the company is supposed to be named and remediation steps disclosed. The FLA has one report more recent than 6 years old on their site. That one relatively recent report (August 2010) is full of abuses across multiple manufacturers, including people who believe they are "always" expected to work for "more than 72 hours in a week" and for "more than 24 days in a row," and that they were not free to refuse overtime without repercussions. Those were the top measured tier in each of those categories. None of the manufacturers were named, and no remediation steps are outlined. Thus making the report completely toothless since there is no accountability and no attempt to repair the problems.
Apple opened up 90% of their factories for inspection. That's pretty good if accurate, it'd be hard to maintain a 90% facade. But they joined the FLA a month ago, FoxConn undoubtedly saw that there would be inspections coming through, and a month is more than enough time to clean up their act for inspection purposes. They also undoubtedly made it known to their workers that if they lose this Apple contract, those workers will be out of a job (and they really will be, nobody else will absorb that excess manufacturing capacity). So this inspection is easily whitewashed, and the workers will easily give glowing testimony so they retain their jobs. Also, wasn't it just a few days ago that they announced the inspections were going to start? They really thoroughly inspected all these factories in just a few days? Amazing!
So what exactly is this inspection supposed to prove? Plenty of time to prepare, workers who know if the inspection goes wrong that they'll lose their jobs, and a whirlwind tour of the factories by a sham organization. This is a token, "We got our hand slapped, let's make puppy eyes at the media," publicity stunt.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
I personally have spent a few months in Chinese steel mills on and off as part of my old job as an automation/GUI programmer.. The plants are dirty as you could possibly imagine, dangerous and badly maintained, but the workers I saw actually seemed quite relaxed and worked fairly normal 8 hour shifts, took lunch breaks etc. I notice the quote only focused on the physical conditions at Foxconn, but it seems like this is probably more of a management problem. The plants might be nice and clean but if the workers need to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for fear of losing their job of course some of them are going to get pretty depressed. What is the point of earning money in "clean" working conditions if you have no life, why not just jump out the window right now?
Yes, and it was expected - this isn't the first time people have visited the plant and checked, or the first time Apple has had a code of practice.
The outcome of the report was irrelevant though, since slashdot Apple bashers had made up their minds when Apple announced the FLA would be doing audits for them - if they find positive stuff, then its clearly just Foxxcon "hiding the abuse" while the FLA are visiting, or they release a pre-written report given to them by Apple and cash a fat cheque, and if they released a negative report then it's "validation all along about how evil Apple is".
The actual facts of the matter rarely play a part in Apple bashing. No Apple hater is going to believe this study was valid because it didn't fit their preconceptions of the "facts" that they know to be true, deep in their gut.
my father and my uncle all think as you do, and what is common between you, is that you are anti-social. So it comes as to no surprise that you dislike social systems, and want to be a rugged and free individual, and believe that every man is an island. The issue is that economics along with politics, are treated like a sort of religion, one that should conform to a persons pre-conceived perceptions (and thus avoid cognitive dissonance).
I don't presume why you would presume to know better about politics or economics, when its clear that some of the most dedicated and brilliant minds contradict you, even a simple google search would reveal empirical evidence to contradict your statements. Do you also disagree with climate scientists over global warming, or with biologists over how/if abiogenesis occurred, what qualifications do you offer above the consensus of economists?
I posted some very specific criticisms that directly contradict your statements, many of which are easily disproven by anyone willing to question their own rhetoric. you addressed none of them whatsoever, and instead took offense when i criticized you qualifications, which are apparent from your lack of knowledge in that domain. But seeing as how your such an asshole, i hope that you eventually learn what its like, to have a bleeding stomach full of digestive fluids
On a related note, where DID you get that spiffy tinfoil hat?