Apple Settles Antennagate Class-Action Lawsuit

Just another class action suit by newcastlejon · 2012-02-18 04:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

"misrepresenting and concealing material information in the marketing, advertising, sale, and servicing of its iPhone 4 — particularly as it relates to the quality of the mobile phone antenna and reception and related software."

So naturally, the people who actually had the problem are entitled to fifteen (count 'em!) dollars.

Are there any figures for the people who got a full refund for a phone that was - according to some, anyway - not fit for purpose?

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Re:Just another class action suit by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-18 05:16 · Score: 5, Informative

I own an iphone4 and live in a rural area. The iphone4 was unusable at my house until I put a bumper case on it. However when I put a bumper case on it, the phone started working perfectly, the reception was as good as any other phone I had tried (I used to be a blackberry user). That is why this didn't blow up bigger in my opinion.
Also, I highly recommend apple's bumper case, they fit so tightly onto the phone it seems like you aren't using much of a case at all. A friend of mine gave me an apple bumper case or I would have never tried one. They add a certain amount of needed grippyness but not too much (the non-apple one I'm using right now pulls my entire pocket out with it). The apple case I received from a friend was made for an AT&T phone so the ringer switch was hard to use, so I'll use this settlement to get a case that fits my phone.
The disappointing part is that apple was allowed to make extra money on bumper cases all this time. I never bought one from them and it did not feel right to have to buy one from them to get my phone work. At the same time, since I had found a workaround, I wanted to keep my new smartphone because I was really enjoying how well it worked doing everything else.
More useless anecdotal evidence :)
Also, recently I have started hanging out in apple stores telling people who show up to buy a power adapter that they need to go home and check out adaptersettlement.com and bring their laptop/strain damaged laptop instead of spending $80. Made two people REALLY happy last week, but it was apple's fault, they made me come in a second time for my adapter settlement, so I was working overtime on my information campaign.
Re:Just another class action suit by errandum · 2012-02-18 06:31 · Score: 5, Informative

I can't, for the life of me, see how this could have been marked as informative. Tests ( http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 ) show that the iPhone 4's antennae behaves very much like the Nexus One antennae, but when gripped drops the signal much more than the iPhone 3GS and the Nexus One.
There is a serious flaw that manifests in low reception areas and with left handed people. If it wasn't a big problem, it would not have been noticed.
Apple touted improved reception and revolutionary design in it's adds, but that was not true, and it took them long enough to "admit" it (actually, they never did, but still accepted returns and gave free bumpers to those affected with by the problem they claim did not exist).
In one thing you're right though, the hype was ridiculous. But what caused that hype was people proving, either by simple tests or real research, Few days after steve job's mea culpa (or actually "no culpa"), the media frenzy stopped. It's a textbook example on how not to handle a problem.
Re:Just another class action suit by dachshund · 2012-02-18 06:38 · Score: 5, Informative

Of course, in reality, the antenna was only marginal in signal areas beyond that of the 3GS it replaced, so the majority of people never saw the issue. Antennas are susceptible to detuning; that's physics for you
Or for god's sake, this post completely misrepresents the issue. I notice you've posted essentially the same comments twice in this thread -- shill much?
For the record, the problem was not limited to marginal signal areas, unless you define 'marginal' as being any area not directly beneath a cell tower. And this isn't just a question of the antenna 'detuning' more (but similarly to) other phones. The unique design characteristic of the iPhone 4 was the decision to place two antennae on the exterior of the phone with no insulation over them. This made it possible to bridge the antennae and essentially swamp them both with noise. This wasn't something that happened 'some of the time'. It was pretty easy to repeat, and it happened in real usage.
Moreover Apple knew it was a serious problem. If you ignore the PR and look at Apple's technical actions, you see a company moving heaven and earth to rectify a catastrophic engineering screwup and repair the antenna as quickly as possible. The only evidence for the idea that 'this wasn't a big deal' came from Apple's public statements.
I don't necessarily think that this is a huge legal issue -- Apple eventually gave out cases so that people with defective phones could use them. And they offered full refunds. But from a customer-relations point of view it was sickening. They basically lied to their early adopters -- people who had enthusiastically lined up to purchase a defective phone -- and agreed to do nothing but send them a bandaid -- while quietly acknowledging the problem and re-engineering the phone so it wouldn't be broken for their next round of customers.
Re:Just another class action suit by dachshund · 2012-02-18 06:48 · Score: 2

I don't necessarily think that this is a huge legal issue
Actually, screw that (yes, I'm replying to my own post). It is a legal issue.
If Apple had been forthright about the technical issue -- and had been honest about the fact that they were designing a 'fixed' version of the phone -- then I think they would have been blameless. People would have been properly informed and thus could have made the correct decision in deciding whether or not to return the device.
But instead Apple lied. They lied because they knew if they downplayed the issue, a lot of people would take them at their word and hold onto phones that they knew were defective. Moreover, they didn't acknowledge that they were fixing the issue -- since they didn't really acknowledge the issue in the first place (remember when it was going to fixed via a software update?) So people didn't know that they could return the phone and buy a better one a few weeks/months later.
I think that really forms the core of their legal culpability. I wish that their damages exceeded the $$ they probably made by sticking people with those defective phones, but I really doubt that it does. No doubt the shareholders are toasting the ghost of Steve Jobs right now.
Re:Just another class action suit by interval1066 · 2012-02-18 07:41 · Score: 1

Yep, Jobs effectively fired Mark Papermaster because of the antenna problems. Interesting because I remember when he was hired, it made a news splash in 2007 and Apple hailed him as the second coming, even though Bob Mansfield (some Mac hardware exec) didn't think he was a good fit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Papermaster

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Re:Just another class action suit by interval1066 · 2012-02-18 07:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

But instead Apple lied.
Yes. But you're making it as if Apple were Monsanto lying about 3 headed babies because their mothers ate corn in the 3rd trimester. Lets scale this down to what it is; a defective consumer product. That's it. Its not a "gate." Not even a Keating 3. Its a 3 oz candy bar with wrapping saying its 5, at best. We both have bigger issues in our lives, at least I do.

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Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Re:Just another class action suit by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 08:53 · Score: 1

>Yes. But you're making it as if Apple were Monsanto lying about 3 headed babies because their mothers ate corn in the 3rd trimester.
Yes. But a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie, and this was no small fib.
If you're going to treat corporations as persons, then they need ot conform to the moral standards of individuals.
In this case, it looks like Apple committed a material deception, actively concealing a product flaw. That's not birth defects, no, but that's treble damages area, if not criminal conduct.
Instead of $25 or so per customer, Apple should be paying out $500 or so, twenty times what it's being asked.
Of course, the foregoing would require the US to have a Department of Justice.
Re:Just another class action suit by interval1066 · 2012-02-18 09:13 · Score: 1

If you're going to treat corporations as persons...
I'm doing no such thing. What my elected officials do despite my best impotent threats I may throw their way is beyond my grasp. I think its easy to show that Washington and in my case Sacramento is run amok. I am however going to direct my meagre and limited efforts to those causes which I deem to be worthy of those efforts. This ain't one of 'em, sorry.

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Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Re:Just another class action suit by AmiMoJo · 2012-02-18 09:39 · Score: 1

The difference being that this particular candy bar costs hundreds rather than pennies. Anyway, selling a 3 oz candy bar as 5 oz is a crime and hard to pass off as a mistake, where as Apple clearly just cocked up this one up. It's kinda funny really, they showed off all the amazing pictures of their signal test chamber with an iPhone sat on a plastic holder in the middle, apparently oblivious of the need to test it in someone's hand.

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Re:Just another class action suit by dachshund · 2012-02-18 11:02 · Score: 2

Yes. But you're making it as if Apple were Monsanto lying about 3 headed babies because their mothers ate corn in the 3rd trimester.
What I'm saying is that Apple collected a profit by lying to its customers, they should be liable for some or all of that profit.
Has our culture degraded to the point where this thought is shocking? If so, please kill me.
Re:Just another class action suit by Hognoxious · 2012-02-18 12:55 · Score: 1

The 4's antenna was just more susceptible than others (the internal ones) because it had a much better range to begin with
Right. The Patriots lost the Superbowl because they were so totally awesome in the regular season.
(You might need at find a man to explain that to you).

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Just another class action suit by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 13:09 · Score: 1

Hey, I didn't mean "you" as in "you personally." I meant "you" and in "your average govcritter making these decisions."
Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-18 16:06 · Score: 1

You're saying I'm paid for my posts, yes?
Just being clear on what I'm being accused of here.
You believe, because I hold a different opinion to you, that I'm being paid for it?
Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-18 16:12 · Score: 1

Can you find me "a man" to explain the grammar in your parentheses first?
Re:Just another class action suit by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-02-18 16:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

Actually, it betrays a rather extensive lack of clue about antenna design, and the elevation of form over function. It also suggests some engineers quaking in their proverbial boots instead of telling Jobs what a dumb idea it was.

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Re:Just another class action suit by interval1066 · 2012-02-18 16:49 · Score: 1

Here's a kick in the groin for ya; I'm not even an Apple fan boy. I've criticised them in the past. I really couldn't care less about this though. Shouldn't even be a /. item.

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Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Re:Just another class action suit by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 16:52 · Score: 1

Uh, hardly a kick in the groin. More like the impact of a knat's feet upon an elephant's skin.
Re:Just another class action suit by interval1066 · 2012-02-18 17:24 · Score: 1

Yeah, this is no sweat off your nose. That's why you keep replying.

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Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Re:Just another class action suit by Hognoxious · 2012-02-18 21:07 · Score: 1

a lot of people would take them at their word and hold onto phones
Would they hold on to them wrong?

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Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Just another class action suit by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 21:18 · Score: 1

*yawn*
I just got back from my local pub, this is in my email. It takes about 20 seconds to reply.
I'll probably get tired of it if you bother to reply again. Or maybe we'll make this the longest pissing contest in the history of Slashdot.
Speaking of which... gotta go empty...
You game? Bets, anyone?
Re:Just another class action suit by ToddInSF · 2012-02-20 20:07 · Score: 1

No, he said that you're a shill, not a paid shill. At least a hooker gets paid; you apparently do it for free.
Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-21 05:37 · Score: 1

Ah, so in other words, he's got no argument and rather than admitting he's wrong, instead has to resort to ad hominem attacks.
Got it.
(Disagreeing with someone is not the same as being a shill).

Lawyers rake it in by SirBitBucket · 2012-02-18 04:30 · Score: 5, Interesting

Once again, some law firm gets millions for shuffling some paperwork around, and the consumers who actually experienced the problem get a few bucks each. Just doesn't seem right.

Re:Lawyers rake it in by CoolVC · 2012-02-18 04:33 · Score: 1

In this case they are giving a bumper case that resolves the issue. Seems fair.
Re:Lawyers rake it in by oGMo · 2012-02-18 04:42 · Score: 1, Flamebait

They're fixing the problem. You bought a phone with the expectation it would work under normal circumstances (i.e. being held), it didn't, and this forces them to rectify the issue.
You aren't entitled to out-of-proportion rewards, like millions of dollars, Apple being put out of business, a new phone, or even a refund. You bought a phone with a poor antenna design, and they provided a satisfactory workaround. Get over it.

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Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Re:Lawyers rake it in by jo_ham · 2012-02-18 04:53 · Score: 1, Insightful

It wasn't even that bad of a design to begin with. Under all the conditions where an internal antenna would work acceptably (ie, when the phone was being held in any possible position) the 4's antenna also worked fine. It was only in marginal conditions where internal antennas, like the one in the 3GS, would not receive a signal in the first place that the detuning showed up.
The design should have figured both left and right handed use from the start, certainly, but it was nowhere near as bad as many were making it out to be.
That said, the bumper cures the issue in those edge cases.
Re:Lawyers rake it in by Overzeetop · 2012-02-18 04:53 · Score: 4, Informative

Yeah, but Apple already gave everyone a free bumper who wanted one. The problem is that it solves the antenna issue, but causes the phone to be the wrong size for every docking connector made for the phone, including all "compatible" and official Apple accessories when installed. I just hold mine differently (really, it almost feels like someone else is holding it). Seems like a lawsuit that should never have been dismissed early based on Apple's official response.

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Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Re:Lawyers rake it in by rsilvergun · 2012-02-18 04:54 · Score: 2

Nope, only the lawyers are entitled to millions. You get $15 bucks or a cheap plastic case. There's got to be a better way to keep companies honest than giving some schmuck lawyer millions of dollars and everyone else pittance. Christ, the last class action I qualified for I got a 10% off coupon for services from the company that screwed me. My settlement was participation in their marketing campaign for pete's sake.

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Re:Lawyers rake it in by afabbro · 2012-02-18 04:58 · Score: 1

Get over it.
I think the OP is pointing out the ritual of class action lawsuits in America. A CAL is filed and won or settled for tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. Lawyers take 30-50% and the rest is divided over the huge pool in the class, hence often resulting in a few bucks each.
It's a perverted system - as a big company, you are spared having to pay anything of substance to each litigant, yet the overall effect is still big. Lawyers love it because they get rich.
I usually get 2-3 letters or postcards a year informing me that I'm potentially part of a CAL because a had a Mastercard four years ago, or I exchanged foreign currency with company X in 2005, or because I changed flight reservations in 2006, or some other event that I've completely forgotten. Just check boxes A and B and sign on the line, and you get a check for $5-10 in three months, and you can check the status at SomeBigCompanySettlement.com. It's a weird part of modern life.

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Re:Lawyers rake it in by Richard_at_work · 2012-02-18 05:06 · Score: 4, Informative

You are more than able to bring your own case, accept the risks of doing so, and reap whatever you get Apple to settle for.
Those legal costs might very well take a big bite out of whatever you get. And if you lose, you will still have legal costs to cover - thems be the risks.
Re:Lawyers rake it in by Theaetetus · 2012-02-18 05:20 · Score: 2

Once again, some law firm gets millions for shuffling some paperwork around, and the consumers who actually experienced the problem get a few bucks each. Just doesn't seem right.
And that law firm spent a million to do that shuffling. Would you pay a lawyer a million dollars to sue Apple over $15? Of course not. No one would. So, absent a class action suit, everyone would just suck up their $15 loss and Apple - or any other large company - would get away with it.
Class action suits are more about punishing the company for wrongdoing than compensating consumers... which is why it's not surprising that there are a lot of shills out there arguing that they're wrong and that lawyers are just filing these out of greed.
Re:Lawyers rake it in by SirBitBucket · 2012-02-18 05:22 · Score: 1

This was indeed my original point. I tend to ignore all those class action letters. I had one where a company actually screwed me out of 3500 USD. I got a $35.00 check. The lawyers got a couple hundred grand, and they were in no way wronged. (It was like getting blood from a turnip or I would have gone after them for the max in small claims. I figured I would get nothing. So perhaps 1% is not so bad...)
Re:Lawyers rake it in by SirBitBucket · 2012-02-18 05:30 · Score: 1

Point taken...
( you.isLawer() == true ) || ( you.GetParent().isLawer() == true )
That's ok, we do sometimes need lawyers, like when the Feds come knocking... ;)
Re:Lawyers rake it in by SirBitBucket · 2012-02-18 05:34 · Score: 1

Sometimes we need good spelling in our code too... But it was the original library author who spelled those methods lawer instead of lawyer...
Re:Lawyers rake it in by cvtan · 2012-02-18 06:07 · Score: 1

My brother lost $10k due to an improper risky investment by Morgan Stanley. There was a class action suit which Morgan Stanley lost. My brother got a check for $3 and the lawyers made millions. He tore up the check.

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Re:Lawyers rake it in by DavidD_CA · 2012-02-18 06:33 · Score: 1

Every time I've been invited to take part in a class action lawsuit, I was sent a postcard saying I had a right to withdraw from the suit and take up my own claim against the company.
If your brother was so upset about the $3 payout, which was likely announced on that postcard, why didn't he tear the postcard up instead and file his own claim?

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-David
Re:Lawyers rake it in by AmiMoJo · 2012-02-18 07:07 · Score: 1

The antenna is far worse than other high end phones when the problem kicks in. It is undeniably an issue.
The bumper prevents the phone fitting most docks and isn't what I'd call attractive.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Lawyers rake it in by Mista2 · 2012-02-18 08:00 · Score: 1

And all the customers who bought one after the bumper case program ran out? Interesting that Apple pulled out all the stops to replace a plastic screen with glass on the original phone, but couldn't work out how to stop bridging that lile gap when the phone is held normally?
Re:Lawyers rake it in by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 08:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

Actually, no, no, no no no.
With the existing precident, you are almost guaranteed to win in any small claims venue. Your costs range from free to about $75. You can represent yourself.
On the other hand, Apple, as a corporation, is going to have to send a lawyer. At $350/hr or so, they're going to spend at least $5000 on the case -- time, travel, expenses (hotel etc).
If you sue them for $500 or less, it simply makes sense to settle. And in fact, I've only seen Apple not settle once-- when a law student at Berkeley did them the convenience of (intentionally) suing them in Cupertino over a defective laptop.
Guess what? He still won. Small claims litigation is not massive class action. It has restricted, common sense rules and proceeds by a common sense, preponderance of the evidence. Guys in fancy suits tend not to impress judges who have deep caseloads to clear.
In this case, the question is the damages. Hard to calculate, but I could see service costs over a year, plus some punitive or retributive damages in some jurisdictions. The higher you make it, the more incentive you give Apple to fight, so realistically, I'd peg a reasonable suit at $500-750.
If it's worth your time to do the research and/or go through the hoops of the small claims procedure in your jurisdiction (5-10 hours for a novice), then I'd say go for it. If people did it all the time, corporations would be much more careful and responsive.
Otherwise, my point is that the parent post is mostly FUD, mixed with ignorance.
Re:Lawyers rake it in by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 08:27 · Score: 1

$3500 is real money.
If your story is true as stated, you likely had the choice to litigate in local small claims. As stated, the chances that the company would have settled when served with a lawsuit are at least 90%.
You chose not to, and to participate in the class action instead, for whatever reason.
Re:Lawyers rake it in by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2012-02-18 08:32 · Score: 2, Informative

The problem is that it solves the antenna issue, but causes the phone to be the wrong size for every docking connector made for the phone, including all "compatible" and official Apple accessories when installed.
This is NOT true. I've had an Apple supplied bumper from day one and have NEVER taken it off.

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Lawyers rake it in by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 08:33 · Score: 1

>And that law firm spent a million to do that shuffling. Would you pay a lawyer a million dollars to sue Apple over $15? Of course not.
No, but you wouldn't be paying $1 million. $15 or $150 or $1500 (all reasonable amounts to sue for) are small claims-- $25,000 is the small claims limit in my jurisdiction, and $1500 is the lowest state-set jurisdictional limit in the US.
In small claims, you can represent yourself. The filing fee can range from free to about $75. As a corporation, Apple needs to send a lawyer across the company to respond to my suit, pay that lawyer $350/hr, pay his travel and lodging expenses, etc etc.
The above is an imbalance that highly favors the plaintiff. In practice, I've never heard of Apple sending a lawyer (outside cases filed in Cupertino) for anything under $5000; they settle, because the costs of not settling are enormously disproportionate. As do almost all corporations.
One-on-one lawsuits and class actions are entirely different things.
Re:Lawyers rake it in by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 08:42 · Score: 1

I think the OP was lying, and was just about to pass it by.
I know of no such CAL against Morgan Stanley, and have followed the news. Certainly there could be something small I don't know about, but...
$3 is a ridiculously small payout on a $10K loss, especially considering treble damages. To keep making the point I've made in other threads: when we're talking about something substantive and tangible and reasonably large, not your VCR rebooting on 3rd Thursdays (yes, that was essentially the jist of a CAL), then you'd often be far better off just litigating it out in your local small claims.
For a $10K loss involving fraudulent activity, I'd file for $25K in my local jurisdiction without prejudice to filing further. Let the CAL do the discovery and other legwork, and bring the whole recoded into the Court. The $25K should be more or less a slam-dunk at that point, and I can decide whether it's worth it to pay a lawyer part of it to go after the $15K that's above the small claims limit at that point.
It probably would be, depending on the strength of the claim (I'm assuming a strong claim).
Sheesh, sorry, the whole "pay a lawyer $1M to litigate a $15 claim" thing around here, is a bit annoying :P
Re:Lawyers rake it in by englishknnigits · 2012-02-18 10:44 · Score: 1

Steve Jobs clarified that everyone was just holding the phone wrong. Correct and normal are not the same thing.
Re:Lawyers rake it in by Theaetetus · 2012-02-18 11:58 · Score: 1

>And that law firm spent a million to do that shuffling. Would you pay a lawyer a million dollars to sue Apple over $15? Of course not.
No, but you wouldn't be paying $1 million. $15 or $150 or $1500 (all reasonable amounts to sue for) are small claims-- $25,000 is the small claims limit in my jurisdiction, and $1500 is the lowest state-set jurisdictional limit in the US.
In small claims, you can represent yourself. The filing fee can range from free to about $75. As a corporation, Apple needs to send a lawyer across the company to respond to my suit, pay that lawyer $350/hr, pay his travel and lodging expenses, etc etc.
The above is an imbalance that highly favors the plaintiff. In practice, I've never heard of Apple sending a lawyer (outside cases filed in Cupertino) for anything under $5000; they settle, because the costs of not settling are enormously disproportionate. As do almost all corporations.
One-on-one lawsuits and class actions are entirely different things.
Or, they'll default. And then you can pursue them for your $15 default judgement. And after spending hours and hours of your time, they'll send you a $15 check, making the deal work out to about a dollar an hour for you. Hoooray?
Re:Lawyers rake it in by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 12:37 · Score: 1

Read the other posts in this thread, whydon'tcha, like the woman who opted out of a $200 Toyota settlement and won $10K instead.
The point is that you wouldn't sue for the $15, which is the reduced bulk rate that the firm filing a CLA is willing to accept.
In this case I'd probably file for 18 months service costs ($900 or so), and some amount up to treble damages, so potentially, $3600 or so. I'd typically be glad to settle for 2/3 or so of that.
Personally, it would take me an hour or two to send the proper paperwork and letter, and to file, and a bit more for the associated work. Which works out to a bit over $750/hr. Not ideal, but it'll do.

Small claims by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-18 04:30 · Score: 5, Interesting

Can I do what the woman did against Toyota a few weeks ago and sue them on my own in small claims court (unlike the class who received $200, she received almost $8000)? Can I use the evidence presented during the class action in my own case? I didn't join the class action myself.

Re:Small claims by roc97007 · 2012-02-18 06:23 · Score: 1

It's worth a try. I believe the only thing at risk is the filing fee.

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Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Re:Small claims by CSHARP123 · 2012-02-18 08:45 · Score: 2

it was against Honda. Not Toyota. Here is the link http://finance.yahoo.com/news/woman-sues-honda-unlikely-place-195014842.html/
Re:Small claims by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 08:56 · Score: 1

Yes. A million times, yes. And one more time, yes. At least some around here, get it.
Re:Small claims by AmiMoJo · 2012-02-18 09:45 · Score: 1

Problem is that the amount you get depends on the losses you can prove. A bumper and maybe some loss of the cool sleek looks is apparently worth $15, seemingly ignoring the fact that the phone no longer fits many docks. If you had such a dock you could add the cost of a replacement to the amount claimed. You would also get expenses, but you don't really win anything there since they are things you paid out on.
Your only hope of making significant cash is to show financial loss due to the problem. Dropped calls leading to the loss of a contract or failure of your business, some unlikely event like that. The women you mentioned presumably showed that she personally had lost $8000, perhaps by being injured and having time off work or by the car being devalued by the defect. Beyond that you could ask for punitive damages, but you would need to show that Apple was malicious rather than simply cocking-up.

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SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

Way too little, way too late by zamboni1138 · 2012-02-18 04:31 · Score: 1

Well thanks guys, but come on. $15 or a free bumper? After 18+ months?

I already got my free bumper just after I got my iPhone 4. It was, and still is, a piece of shit. It completely ruined the look and feel/smoothness of the phone, messed up the top jack so that the audio aux out to my car was useless and made getting the phone out of my pocket a nightmare. After a few days I ripped it off my iPhone and literally threw it out the window of my car in a fit of rage. It's in a ditch on the side of a country road. It played out like a scene from Penny Arcade.

Re:Way too little, way too late by schnikies79 · 2012-02-18 04:36 · Score: 4, Funny

Thanks for littering, asshole.

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Gone!
Re:Way too little, way too late by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-18 04:38 · Score: 1

The $200 fine you deserve for littering should offset whatever you feel you're entitled to from Apple. So it's even.
Fair?
Re:Way too little, way too late by roc97007 · 2012-02-18 05:04 · Score: 1

Agreed. I think he should have thrown the whole iphone out the window.

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Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Re:Way too little, way too late by mrclisdue · 2012-02-18 05:21 · Score: 1

Agreed. I think he should have thrown the whole iphone out the window.
Then the ditch animals could duke it out over the new nice and shiny.
cheers,
Re:Way too little, way too late by VortexCortex · 2012-02-18 05:26 · Score: 1

With the by-product of your temper tantrum out the window now ruining the environment, likely choking some bird who later ate it.
Way to fix the situation. Prick.
Irrational pigs who can't control their temper should be done away with.
It's too bad the massive propaganda campaign against such filthy behaviour was misinterpreted,
No wonder the birds are still so angry.
Re:Way too little, way too late by Killer+Instinct · 2012-02-18 07:34 · Score: 1

Id like to see a bird who could/would choke on a case for an iphone. Itd be a big un. Maybe it landed next to my verizon phone, which did end up in a ditch one day. Switched to nextel and was happy until Sprint got a hold of them. so now the phone karma gods are getting their revenge. Cant switch to verizon again, hate em. AT&T isnt a good choice, capped, limited. Virgin Mobile? maybe.

Back on topic...class action lawsuits work most of the time, as a deterrent to future business practices. Of course Apple might have 300mil to throw around, but i doubt they make the SAME mistake again.

-KI

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#include bier;
Re:Way too little, way too late by newcastlejon · 2012-02-18 07:53 · Score: 1

Don't worry, I've informed Bette Midler and she assures me he'll be a stain at the roadside by the end of the week.

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If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
Re:Way too little, way too late by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 08:45 · Score: 1

I was too busy punching you in the fucking nose. Sorry. :P
Re:Way too little, way too late by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-02-19 03:31 · Score: 1

Well thanks guys, but come on. $15 or a free bumper? After 18+ months?
Message from Apple to you: Fuck you very much :-)

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Have you got your LWN subscription yet?

so opt out of the class action and file a small by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-18 04:46 · Score: 1

file a small claims case for the price of your phone... you will likely win since they have admitted they were wrong by settling.

Re:so opt out of the class action and file a small by afabbro · 2012-02-18 05:01 · Score: 1

To wit, a woman chose not to join a CAL against Honda and took them to small claims court. Instead of $100 and a $1000 credit towards a new Honda, she won $9,867.

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Advice: on VPS providers

15 bucks when they made billions by CSHARP123 · 2012-02-18 04:57 · Score: 1

Let us just take 21 million customers (as indicated in the article) for calculation puposes. They are making around $500 bucks on each of the phone according to http://www.bgr.com/2011/10/06/apple-maintains-big-margins-on-iphone-4s-according-to-ubm-analysis//BGR. Now they have to pay what $300 Million. WOW nice go

Re:15 bucks when they made billions by JazzHarper · 2012-02-18 05:10 · Score: 1

What Apple may or may not have made selling the iPhone is irrelevant to this case. What counts are the actual damages. Seems about right.

*Gate by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-18 05:11 · Score: 1

Idiots who add the postfix Gate to everything should be plain executed publicly. It sounds stupid, attempts to link whatever with a president conducting criminal activities (old story), and doesn't add any value. Like if these things were comparable or even on the same scale of importance. It's just smokes and mirrors for retards - which seem to have arrived to Slashdot as well it seems.

No more -gates please by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-18 05:15 · Score: 1

I'm getting so tired of seeing -gate appended to every issue. Just say "antenna issues" or something. Crying ZOMG ANTENNAGATE does nothing to actually help me remember which lawsuit we're talking about because my eyes start glazing over and I bet this won't be the last time there will be antenna troubles either.

That and the issue is nowhere near as important or as shocking as the actual Watergate scandal. Stop it. All of you.

Re:Why did they settle? by roc97007 · 2012-02-18 05:24 · Score: 2

Good point. "iNetworkDevice" doesn't have the same ring. Get it? Ring? Hello, is anyone out there?

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Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

Finally, justice by arisvega · 2012-02-18 05:27 · Score: 1

This is for alll of you Apple haters out there that cry "double standards" and to prove that, once and for all, Apple gets the same slap on the wrist as everybody else.

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The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.

A free bumper sticker ?!? by dargaud · 2012-02-18 05:38 · Score: 2

One that says: "I bought an iPhone without a working antenna and now I'm eagerly waiting for the next model" ?

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Non-Linux Penguins ?

A lawyer scam by tgibbs · 2012-02-18 05:43 · Score: 2

Class action suits over consumer electronics are basically an extortion scam (albeit a legal one) perpetrated by lawyers. It works as follow:

1. Contact the media, announce a class action lawsuit demanding a huge amount of money over a "flaw" in a widely sold product.
2. Contact the company, offer to settle for pennies on the dollar. The company nearly always settles, regardless of the merits, because it would cost more to fight the suit.
3. The members of the class (i.e. the customers) get a pittance, often hardly enough to pay them for the time to fill out the paperwork.
4. But the lawyer gets a slice of every one of those piddly little settlements, which adds up to a nice chunk of change for hardly any work.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Re:A lawyer scam by StripedCow · 2012-02-18 06:07 · Score: 1

If you believe in conspiracies, then it may actually be one of Apple's own lawyers who initiated the suit.

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If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
Re:A lawyer scam by tgibbs · 2012-02-18 06:32 · Score: 1

You'd have to be very conspiracy-minded indeed to think that there are so few unethical lawyers around that Apple would need to invent some
Re:A lawyer scam by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 09:01 · Score: 1

You sir, clearly, have never worked at a class action firm.
The risks and costs of such litigation are real and large. A failed case can cost a firm millions. Hundreds of thousands are often spent researching cases that go nowhere. Very few lawyers get filthy rich, as opposed to standard compensation, from CALs.
Re:A lawyer scam by tgibbs · 2012-02-18 11:30 · Score: 1

Yeah, right. Research for what? To discover that the iPhone's signal is weakened when you hold it a certain way? Like every other such personal electronics class action suit I've heard of, the "flaw" was already public knowledge when the suit was filed. But I guess that I shouldn't be surprised that exaggerated costs are part of the scam. No wonder the settlement to the individual class member almost always turns out to be not worth the time it takes to fill out the paperwork. Not if the law firm is taking out costs based on charging $500 an hour for the time its employees spend trolling the web for news of product "flaws" that can be trumped up into one of these legal-extortion lawsuits.
Re:A lawyer scam by theNAM666 · 2012-02-18 12:02 · Score: 1

You obviously have no idea what a law firm does.
In addition to the technical resources, you have to do legal research, often tons of it. Junior associates have to show up at 5 and stay until 10 to get this done, often under deadline-- and the firm competes to find people capable of that (most burn out within a year or two). These costs come right out of the firms' pocket, long before any chance of profits.
Running a large class-action is not a slam-dunk process by any means. It can often require the long hours and co-ordinated work of tens or hundreds of individuals. It's not small claims; you don't just show up and say "it didn't work, hey judge, here's the press articles that say it didn't work and many other people had problems." The discovery process alone, in which you request and review company documents and communications (etc etc; you're likely to spend hours and hours on depositions in something like this) can eat up a few hundred thousands in a blink of an eye.
But, hey, if you want to persist in your delusions, do so... no skin off my back.

Thankfully (I think) they fixed the 4S! by wisebabo · 2012-02-18 06:00 · Score: 1

You know, speaking as an Apple Fanboi, I'll admit they made a goof with the antenna design. While maybe not "bad" (or worse than its competitors) there was clearly a design flaw and it could've been better.

That's (one of the reasons) why I waited for the 4S.

They fixed that problem and added some new features. I'm sure there will never again be an obvious antenna flaw on any Apple iProduct. Isn't that right Siri?

Uhhhh what? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-18 06:06 · Score: 1

I'm clearly missing something here. Didn't Apple voluntarily offer up a free bumbler or (even better than $15) a full no questions asked refund to anyone that felt they had a problem!?!?!?!? This was done almost immediately after the 4 issue was uncovered.

So some dumb (or brilliant depending on your perspective) lawyers charged millions in fees to accomplish a "settlement" that's even less generous than what Apple offered up voluntarily? God bless America.

I don't see the issue by roc97007 · 2012-02-18 06:22 · Score: 1

Most owners were going to replace it when the next one came out anyway.

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

great by milkmage · 2012-02-18 06:23 · Score: 1

mine's in India.
sold it with the free case i got from apple.

who the hell didn't take them up on it when it was offered the first time around?

IMO the case I got then was better than Apple's bumper (which was slow shipping at the time) anyway.

Re:Already got my free case. by larry+bagina · 2012-02-18 06:47 · Score: 1

No shit, they've been giving away free bumpers for over a year and a half now.

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Do you even lift?

These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

Is there a hotel called Antennagate? by Beelzebud · 2012-02-18 08:30 · Score: 2

I'm still puzzled by the urge to put "gate" at the end of any type of scandal or conspiracy.

Re:Is there a hotel called Antennagate? by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2012-02-18 08:37 · Score: 1

Apple denied the problem at first, so they wanted it to sound like a big scandal for eyeballs.

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Is there a hotel called Antennagate? by Tablizer · 2012-02-18 09:52 · Score: 2

If there were a lawsuit & scandal over Bill Gates tripping over something, it would be called GatesGaitGate.

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Table-ized A.I.
Re:Is there a hotel called Antennagate? by mr_lizard13 · 2012-02-18 13:05 · Score: 1

Me too. I'm calling this phenomenon 'scandal-gate'.

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"We live in a global world" - Harvey Pitt, former Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by errandum · 2012-02-18 15:56 · Score: 1

Maybe they just employ the same marketing firm and they rotate accounts.

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-18 16:05 · Score: 1

Haha, so I'm paid by Apple?

Is that what you're suggesting here (and that I have more than one account)?

You believe I am paid to post on slashdot? Just to be clear here.

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-02-18 16:19 · Score: 1

Wait, I thought we called bonch a MS shill? Now that account is an Apple shill? Or, is it possible that the account wielder just has an unpopular opinion? Hell, I don't know - I thought he might have been a shill too. But at this point we seem to be labeling so many people as shills that I have a feeling we are just wrong.

I would say that bonch and jo_ham are indeed cynical Apple shills. Just my opinion.

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Have you got your LWN subscription yet?

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-18 17:23 · Score: 1

I need an answer - am I or am I not being paid by Apple (or some other third parry PR firm) to post on slashdot?

(pssst, you forgot to log in - how silly do you look?!)

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by His+Shadow · 2012-02-18 18:02 · Score: 1

Before you entertain us with your conspiracies, perhaps you could wait to see how the posts rating eventually turns out?

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Fiat Homos et Pereat Theos

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by errandum · 2012-02-19 05:05 · Score: 1

Don't flatter yourself. Either you're someone that suffers from verbal diarrhea and has too much time on his hands to cultivate a user farm, or you're payed to do this.

I want to believe that someone would only do this kind of thing if they were getting payed... but I guess that some people are just that lifeless. Good for you! (:

PS: That anonymous was obviously not me.

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-19 05:29 · Score: 1

How do we know it's not you?

Either way, I've been on slashdot for over 10 years, are you suggesting that I've been paid all this time?

While I may be verbose (is that really a negative point, on a discussion site full of supposedly intelligent people?!), I'm certainly not "cultivating a user farm" - what does that even mean?

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-19 12:17 · Score: 1

Then you're incorrect, at least about me.

I'm not paid by Apple, I have no professional relationship with them or any other firm. I'm not paid to post on /. and I'm not paid for my opinions in any other capacity.

I have unpopular opinions, but I'm not being paid for them. Take that for what it's worth - clearly not much, since you've already decided with no evidence.

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-02-19 18:58 · Score: 1

I do have a lot of evidence you're a nice tame Apple lapdog and apologist.

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Have you got your LWN subscription yet?

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-19 20:20 · Score: 1

That's not the same thing is it? In your post before you called me a "cynical Apple shill". So which is it? Backing off from that assertion because you know you've got nothing to back it with except the fact that I disagree with you on a discussion site? (I'll let you absorb and process how silly that sounds that it is even being mentioned).

My posts don't follow the lockstep "Apple/Sony/MS/Facebook is eeeeeevil", but that does not make me a shill, or an apologist; it just means I hold a different opinion (and one that is not always positive to Apple, which you'd know if you'd ever read my posts).

The simple fact of the matter is that it's become impossible to discuss anything "touchy" on this site constructively - Android, Linux, Open Source, Apple, Climate Change - when any comment that is not overwhelmingly on the "side" of slashdot is hammered.

I was accused of being a hypocrite because I held an opinion that one of Apple's lawsuits was wrong while another one was right, for goodness sake. That's not being a hypocrite, that's having an opinion that they're not 100% evil or 100% good - apparently that sort of nuanced opinion is frowned upon and you have to be either totally black or totally white.

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by Daniel+Phillips · 2012-02-20 19:10 · Score: 1

That's not the same thing is it?

It might as well be for all the difference between you and a stock Apple shill.

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Have you got your LWN subscription yet?

Re:Apple shills Re:Just another class action suit by jo_ham · 2012-02-21 05:35 · Score: 1

So now you've reversed your argument and are claiming I'm *like* an Apple shill?

Again, that's not the same thing. What's the matter? Don't like that you're being challenged on your assertion and know it really doesn't stand up to any scrutiny?

If I am an Apple shill (or identical to one) then I'm doing a terrible job, but then I suppose you just gloss over an criticism I have for them, and by comparison, any positive opinions I have for Apple's "nemeses" like Android, or is that all part of the PR conspiracy to make it all look genuine?

Let's examine what you just said:

It might as well be for all the difference between you and a stock Apple shill.

So, your criteria for this assertion are because I'm not unfailingly negative about Apple and don't consider them to be a dangerous evil empire? Disagreeing with someone's position does not make them a shill, although that seems to be the only possibility on /. these days. Another way to put it would be "it's us vs them" - and really? You think it's that black and white? This isn't Star Wars.

Just more whining about class action lawsuits by Uberbah · 2012-02-23 16:55 · Score: 1

You get some compensation with no risk or effort on your part in a class action lawsuit. The attorneys take all of the risk - if they don't win, they get no $$$ and have to pay their staff out of pocket - so they get most of the money. Don't like it, hire your own lawyer at your own financial risk.

Name a better system if you can. There's government oversight and enforcement, but the same sort of people that wage war on their own class by buying propaganda on class action lawsuits, unions, etc usually oppose government regulation as well.

Slashdot Mirror

Apple Settles Antennagate Class-Action Lawsuit

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