Apple Threatens To Pull Siri Clone From App Store

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Apple Threatens To Pull Siri Clone From App Store

Posted by Unknown on Monday February 27, 2012 @08:16PM from the larry-wall-is-full-of-lies dept.

daria42 writes "Steve Jobs might not be around any more to enforce some of Apple's stricter policies, but that doesn't mean the company is letting it all hang loose. Overnight the U.K. company which produces a speech recognition app called Evi, which mimics many of the functions of Apple's Siri, confirmed Apple had approached his company letting it know that Evi was being reviewed for possible breaches of Apple's App Store policies. The reason? A clause in the policy which bans apps too similar to Apple's existing software. It does appear to matter to Apple that Siri doesn't function that well in the U.K., because of a lack of good localisation." Supposedly Evi will be continue to be allowed on iOS if it alters its interface to be dissimilar enough from Siri to placate Apple.

51 of 251 comments (clear)

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

Is this Apple or MS? by sjwt · 2012-02-27 20:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sounds like its time for an antitrust case to me.

--
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
1. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by mjwx · 2012-02-27 20:32 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Sounds like its time for an antitrust case to me.
  Yes,
  
  But Apple has been pulling competing applications from the app store since it's inception, no alterate email clients, SMS clients, diallers, MP3 players, browsers (proper browsers, not viewers for server generated images or window dressing for the existing rendering engine) and others.
  
  The question is, why is Apple even threatening? Their normal procedure is to pull the app, remove it from everyone's phone, revoke the developers key and send an iAssassination squad to eliminate the one who dared defy them.
  
  Has this guy got compromising photos of Tim Cook and Steve Jobs?
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
2. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by mikael_j · 2012-02-27 21:09 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Why would it be time for an antitrust case?
  Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smartphones, software for smartphones or anything really.
  They do however have a product (the iPhone) which is designed to only receive software authorized by Apple (through the App store) but this is not a monopoly, there are plenty of competing products on the market.
  
  --
  Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
3. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-27 21:21 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Antitrust cases aren't strictly about monopolies, it's about abusing dominance in a market, for example to push into other markets. Market domination has no clear cut definition.
  If, say, one would successfully argue that Apple is dominating in mobile OS market, then using that position to promote Apple's web browser would be illegal.
4. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Cryacin · 2012-02-27 21:29 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  you just forked out enough to buy a car
  
  That must be some car.
  
  --
  Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
5. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by SuricouRaven · 2012-02-27 21:44 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  You could also use Google's walled garden, or Microsoft's walled garden, or RIMs walled garden.
  
  Google's walls are considerably shorter than the others, but walls nontheless. It really just comes down to business management: There is some profit to be had in device manufacture alone, but there is far greater profit to be made in providing services those devices must depend upon.
6. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Threni · 2012-02-27 21:48 · Score: 2
  
  I thought you could install anything you wanted onto an Android phone, out of the box, no jailbreaking or anything. Just email youself the package and install, or use usb etc. That's not a wall.
7. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-27 22:00 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Yes, but to establish market power (not market "domination", which has no definition because it's not a meaningful term), you have to concede that the other smartphone platforms pose no significant competition to Apple. As any Slashdot story or any sales figure would show, that's not the case.
  Apple is an immensely powerful player in the smartphone space, but its ability to cause competitors to act isn't because of market power in the economic and business sense, but instead because of a publicity profile. Apple is the one to beat because of a combination of customer satisfaction, marketing, and industrial engineering and design prowess (and increasingly, technical achievement in certain areas). They're not the ones to beat because of units sold or because they can force competitors to do specifically what Apple wants them to do.
  Their success despite stronghold on platform rules, and especially considering that they are sometimes unevenly applied and result in some functionality gaps with competing products is very strong evidence of competitive success, not interference with the market. These forces would tend to drive customers away toward the fine alternatives available, except that people view the benefits as far outweighing the inconveniences. Report after report shows unparalleled satisfaction and repeat purchases of their mobile devices, along with strong growth over a period of time.
  In short, popularity alone isn't market power in the context of competition law. Customers and developers have plenty of options if they don't like the balance of pros and cons offered by Apple. Just because a huge number of people use something that a small but vocal crowd thinks is unduly restrictive is not an antitrust issue.
8. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by phayes · 2012-02-27 22:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Sounds more like the typical whine of people who, after tens of articles on /. bitching that Apple doesn't allow (apps similar to their OS apps, porn, flagrant ripoffs of existing apps), still don't comprehend that the Apple is not a monopoly & thus App store rules are not abuse of a monopoly.
  If you want different app store rules on your iPhone, jailbeak it. If, as I suspect, you don't event have an iPhone, spare us from your whining...
  
  --
  Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
9. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by mjwx · 2012-02-27 22:10 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You could also use Google's walled garden, or Microsoft's walled garden, or RIMs walled garden.
  
  Google doesn't have a walled garden. it's an open park you can walk into and out of all of your own accord.
  
  I think you need to look up the definition of "walled garden" or actually use Android for yourself. It's nothing like Apple's system of lockdown.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
10. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Anonymus · 2012-02-27 22:10 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I think you're confused about what the term "walled garden" refers to. It means that the carrier or service provider controls exactly what is and isn't allowed on the phone.
  Apple is the only platform you mentioned with a walled garden approach. Google (Android), Microsoft (MS Mobile), and RIM (Blackberry) all allow users to install any application they want. They may not be allowed in an official app store, but you can just connect your phone via usb or email files to your phone and do whatever you want. Each of those platforms may have varying levels of what features/hardware the software is allowed access to once it's on the phone, usually for security but sometimes for business reasons, but that is not the same thing as a walled garden.
11. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Anonymus · 2012-02-27 22:18 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Every product Apple has created in the last 10 years has been designed specifically to drive sales of their other products, while maintaining a closed, integrated system that can't be broken out of. That is literally Apple's core business model, if you look at anything Steve Jobs has ever said. If they ever actually achieve market dominance in an area, they will be destroyed by anti-trust litigation (or should, but with $80+ billion for lawyers, they're untouchable) because their entire strategy is abusing power in one area of their business to feed and promote another.
12. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Truedat · 2012-02-27 23:11 · Score: 2
  
  You could also use Google's walled garden, or Microsoft's walled garden, or RIMs walled garden.
  Google doesn't have a walled garden. it's an open park you can walk into and out of all of your own accord. I think you need to look up the definition of "walled garden" or actually use Android for yourself. It's nothing like Apple's system of lockdown.
  Actually I've never been sure of the meaning of "walled garden". For example most gardens I know of have a gate that you can use to exit and explore the wider, ahem, HTML fauna. I know the term is used pejoratively here on slashdot but to most other people it sounds kind of nice. You know, like maybe there is a tea shop you can visit just next door. Perhaps it's time to revisit our horticultural themed analogy, would critics be better off using "prison yard"?
  So where do people put android in this analogy - is it like one of those houses that don't have a garden at all, perhaps the front door leads straight out into the street? Or perhaps the landlord allows you to grow whatever the hell you like in the garden, beautiful flowers or thorny old weeds.
  Whatever, the whole walled garden meme seems like it needs more work.
13. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by BasilBrush · 2012-02-27 23:12 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  But Apple has been pulling competing applications from the app store since it's inception, no alterate email clients, SMS clients, diallers, MP3 players,
  
  That's odd, because you can go to the App Store and find plenty of alternate email clients, diallers, SMS clients, and MP3 players. Plenty that have been there a long time.
  
  browsers (proper browsers, not viewers for server generated images or window dressing for the existing rendering engine) and others.
  That's the only one in your list that's true. You are allowed to create alternative browsers, and there are many on the App store. But you're not allowed to put your own browser rendering engine on iOS. In part because it would fall foul of the no interpreters with downloadable content rule.
  You are allowed to compete with Apple's own apps on functionality. What you're not allowed to do is to copy the UI of one of Apple's Apps. That's the reason Evi have been asked to change. Because the UI is too much of a Siri copy.
14. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by BasilBrush · 2012-02-27 23:16 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  If they ever actually achieve market dominance in an area, they will be destroyed by anti-trust litigation
  With iPod they had monopoly dominance in the MP3 player market for years. No anti-trust suit. It's not illegal to have a monopoly.
15. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-27 23:17 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  I think there is some confusion about the dictionary definition of monopoly and the legal definition. In the UK, at least, you are deemed to hold a monopoly position within a market if you control more than 25%, which apple certainly does in the smartphone market.
  Also, and I admit it might be a tenuous, you could argue that apps for iOS is a single market, and therefore apple has a 100% monopoly on the supply of apps for iOS, a position that I think most of us agree the abuse to one degree or another.
16. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by mikael_j · 2012-02-27 23:24 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  How did Apple have a monopoly on MP3 players? There were plenty of others on the market although the iPod was the best-selling one.
  And even if they did have a monopoly, in what way did they abuse this monopoly?
  
  --
  Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
17. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Mithent · 2012-02-27 23:28 · Score: 2
  
  The analogy about what you're allowed to grow in your garden is a decent one... On the Apple side we have a controlled neighbourhood where you're required to select one of the limited number of approved layouts and plant only the kind of plants that the committee allow, ensuring that you have a nice garden but restricting your freedom to develop it in the way you like. There are no controls on Android gardens, giving potential for more creative designs and interesting gardens, but with nothing stopping you letting your garden overgrow with thorns and weeds other than your own care and attention.
18. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by CrackedButter · 2012-02-27 23:42 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Walled garden, yadda yadda fear mongering bias making use of all the negative buzzwords to describe Apple. Have you seen how beautiful a real Walled Garden is? At the same time who doesn't lock in customers?
  
  --
  Jonathanjk.com
19. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by gyaku_zuki · 2012-02-27 23:45 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I don't even like Apple, but I agree with everything this dude ^ said. I love my Android, I find it much better than any iOS device, but when so many people buy and don't care about the lock-in and so on, you can't really argue they aren't doing something right.
  
  --
  Zuki: Technical Tomfoolery
20. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by CrackedButter · 2012-02-27 23:48 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Really? An "integrated system that can't be broken out of"? You're talking shit on so many levels. As a simple user myself with allusions of being a super user, I can easily transfer everything to another OS tomorrow if I wanted, saying it requires work to do so isn't unfathomable, any switchover will. For those on the hacker level for greater freedom, you can jailbreak and remove drm protections with instructions available online.
  
  --
  Jonathanjk.com
21. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by coinreturn · 2012-02-28 00:00 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  You could also use Google's walled garden, or Microsoft's walled garden, or RIMs walled garden.
  Google doesn't have a walled garden. it's an open park you can walk into and out of all of your own accord. I think you need to look up the definition of "walled garden" or actually use Android for yourself. It's nothing like Apple's system of lockdown.
  The definition seems to be "A term used derisively by Apple haters."
22. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by andydread · 2012-02-28 01:10 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You are allowed to compete with Apple's own apps on functionality. What you're not allowed to do is to copy the UI of one of Apple's Apps. That's the reason Evi have been asked to change. Because the UI is too much of a Siri copy.
  Yes because only Apple is allowed to shamelessly copy other's work
23. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Deorus · 2012-02-28 01:30 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Just another reason to avoid the proprietary lock-in hell that is Apple's walled garden. Sure their products are shiny and smooth but you trade all your rights to the device you just forked out enough to buy a car on for that ease of use.
  What proprietary lock-in hell? How do they lock you in? At most you could claim that they lock you out, but considering the fact that they tend to use standard protocols and formats for everything (with the dock connector being a historically-justified exception, because there was nothing "standard" when it was created), I fail to see exactly what locks you in to Apple products other than your willingness to stick to the only fully integrated ecosystem that works seamlessly.
  Also, what kind of rights are you talking about?
24. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by BasilBrush · 2012-02-28 01:36 · Score: 2
  
  How did Apple have a monopoly on MP3 players? There were plenty of others on the market although the iPod was the best-selling one.
  In a similar way to how Microsoft had a monoploy on PC operating systems when there was Linux and Mac OS around.
  Greater than 90% of the market.
  
  And even if they did have a monopoly, in what way did they abuse this monopoly?
  They didn't. That's my point.
25. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by Deorus · 2012-02-28 01:37 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  As a licensed iOS developer I am the proof that you are wrong. I don't have to seek Apple's (or anyone's) approval to run anything signed by me on my iDevices.
26. Re:Is this Apple or MS? by GameboyRMH · 2012-02-28 02:29 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  You just did smart guy, when you got you Apple developer license. And you can only distribute apps to a limited number of devices with that Apple-provided signing key you have.
  
  --
  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Oh Apple. by minus9 · 2012-02-27 20:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Don't be Evi.
Evi not much of a competitor, IMHO by CyberSnyder · 2012-02-27 20:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

At least 70% of my attempts to use Evi result in some version of a "unable to process your request" error.
1. Re:Evi not much of a competitor, IMHO by thegarbz · 2012-02-27 20:45 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I concur. While the text to speech engine and the interpreter seem to work correctly it suffers from a lack of information.
  When I tried saying "What is the weather in Sydney" I got an answer saying that the functionality is coming soon and to try Accuweather instead. Why not just pipe that request to Google and return the text at the top?
  Other classic ones are maths problems. I asked "What is five plus five." It correctly interpreted "5+5?" and then said "This appears to be a maths question, try asking the question in words."
  I eventually beat it by asking "What is the addition of 5 and 5?" and it correctly answered 10.
  Seriously the program has some incredibly fundamental flaws.
2. Re:Evi not much of a competitor, IMHO by IAmGarethAdams · 2012-02-27 21:01 · Score: 2
  
  Why not just pipe that request to Google and return the text at the top?
  I think you should double check Google's terms and conditions for automated access
3. Re:Evi not much of a competitor, IMHO by thesandtiger · 2012-02-28 15:46 · Score: 2
  
  But I was assured by everyone on Slashdot that Siri was trivial to duplicate in its entirety and not remotely challenging, interesting or innovative, and that Android had the exact same (and better) functionality forever anyway.
  So clearly your personal experiences with a competitor to Siri must be wrong. *Ahem*
  Kidding aside, how in the hell did you come up with "What is the addition of 5 and 5?" Seriously - you must be phenomenal at Infocom type "guess the verb" text adventure games because such a phrasing would never occur to me.
  
  --
  Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
I be continue to be... by thegarbz · 2012-02-27 20:41 · Score: 5, Funny

I be continue to be horrendously disappoint at Slashdot's lack of editing!
Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-27 20:43 · Score: 2

Siri doesn't understand British english? I can understand if it doesn't support german, french and other non-english languages, but doesn't understand different dialects of english seems bad.
Also, Siri is only on the iPhone 4s, not on any other model so is it really breaching that clause?
1. Re:Wtf? by Captain+Hook · 2012-02-27 21:18 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Siri doesn't understand British english? I can understand if it doesn't support german, french and other non-english languages, but doesn't understand different dialects of english seems bad.
  If you think about it, it makes sense.
  
  A different language is a different language and as a result rules must be explicitly programmed for those languages and everyone understands that.
  
  English sounds English to a human ear, the syntax is based on the same rules but the usage of the language varies a lot around the world. Meaning is coloured by local culture.
  
  For example, in India, it considered rude to ever say No to a request, so the first response to a request is normally Yes, followed by a qualification. In the UK, that cultural bias to saying No doesn't exist, so when we say Yes, we really mean Yes. The same language, using the same syntax but the important part of the sentence comes in different places because of the local culture.
  
  The problem is that humans are really good at deciphering meaning from what is effectively errors in the communication protocol and so everyone tends to think English is just English with strange pronunciation and so tend to over look the need for specific rules for each region.
  
  --
  These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
2. Re:Wtf? by netwarerip · 2012-02-28 01:28 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  This should be easy to resolve, they just need a little table with translations:
  
  US English -------- British English
  Bathroom ------------ Loo
  TV----------------------- Telly
  Awesome dude! --- Jolly good old chap!
  Greetings, sir ------ ‘Ello Guvna
  Cigarette ------------- Fag
  Horse-faced --------- Female
  Toothbrush ---------- N/A
3. Re:Wtf? by QuantumPete · 2012-02-28 01:30 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  English sounds English to a human ear, the syntax is based on the same rules but the usage of the language varies a lot around the world. Meaning is coloured by local culture.
  Exactly! After all when a bouncer throws you out of a pub in the UK by saying: "I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave..." he's neither afraid nor is he asking.
  
  --
  QuantumPete
4. Re:Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-28 03:29 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  It isn't just accents but word usage. The sentence, "I'm going down to the chemist's to pick up a torch and some fags." has an ENTIRELY different meaning in the UK vs the US.
5. Re:Wtf? by rogerz · 2012-02-28 08:04 · Score: 2
  
  Siri supports US English (speaks in the default female voice everyone as heard), UK English (low pitched male voice), AU English (different female voice, better than the US voice, in my opinion), French (effeminate-sounding male voice, as you would expect from any French guy), and German (the best sounding female voice in my opinion).
  You are confusing synthesis with recognition.
  Siri and Evi both use Nuance's automatic speech recognition (ASR) technology. This technology can support both US and UK English (among many others), depending on which models are used. Presumably, this can be configured by the application software, based on the location of the device and/or user setup (I do not have a smart phone, so I'm not sure if the latter is supported). The Nuance technology also adapts to the user's acoustics and word usage over time, so, in theory, a UK-accented speaker could start with the US English model and it (their speaker-dependent model) would eventually have "moved over" into their space. Not optimal, but it can certainly work, with patience on the user's part. With the correct model and/or adaptation, the vast majority of adult speakers will be able to get their "words recognized" by the ASR technology.
  You are correct that the localization issues impact the ability to then respond intelligently to map queries, etc. But that's not all.
  The "natural language understanding" (NLU) layer - which includes more general query processing - is also extremely location/domain dependent, and the adaptation technology here is much less advanced than with ASR. So, the main value-added by the Evi application (relative to Siri) is very likely to be an NLU framework that is regionalized. I'm sure Apple has the capability to make their NLU domain-specific; it's mainly a matter of data collection and training.
  
  --
  If humans are mostly water, and beer is mostly water, then humans must be mostly beer.
6. Re:Wtf? by mcgrew · 2012-02-28 08:56 · Score: 2
  
  That's another difference between American English and British English. Here it's "Out. Now. Don't make me kick your ass!"
  In the nicer bars it's simply "OK, you're gonna hafta leave."
  In the ghetto they don't say anything, they just lift you off the floor and throw you out bodily.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
Apple not pulling Evi app, working with developers by Max+Rool · 2012-02-27 20:46 · Score: 5, Informative

I would like to point out this article http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/27/2828283/sources-apple-not-pulling-evi-app-working-with-developers-to-avoid which among other things states that "... the app remains in the App Store, and according to sources familiar with the matter, Apple is attempting to work with the developers on bumping out those similarities, rather than just pulling the product." Anyway it seems that Apple may have reconsidered their position on this, which is probably a good thing for the small guys.
However.... by htnprm · 2012-02-27 20:52 · Score: 2

...A million similar fart apps is all good though.
Re:Which localization? by sjwt · 2012-02-27 20:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

yes, but you are not a hard coded program, you are the current top of the line adaptive learning system.

--
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
don't be a PR tool here. by YesIAmAScript · 2012-02-27 20:59 · Score: 5, Insightful

The only source for this info is the developer itself and they have an obvious reason to put it out there. Not only does it get them PR ("The app so good Apple doesn't want you to have it!") but it may lead to impulse sales since once an app is pulled you get to keep it if you already bought it.
There is no inkling from Apple. And now the developer is even backing down, so that they have a convenient answer when people ask why their app was never pulled.

--
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
What does this have to do with Steve Jobs? by qxcv · 2012-02-27 21:10 · Score: 3, Interesting

Steve Jobs might not be around any more to enforce some of Apple's stricter policies, but that doesn't mean the company is letting it all hang loose.
Because that's the job of a CEO. To take charge of policing their company's third party developer community.

The fact that most CEOs don't get their hands dirty with the day-to-day work of the company is the reason that Microsoft hasn't imploded after years of being headed up by an overweight chimpanzee.

--
"The most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough." -- Eric S. Raymond
Re:Name brand vs. store brand by Eric+Freyhart · 2012-02-27 21:16 · Score: 2

I agree. They made a product that people wanted to buy, knowing or not knowing that Apple owns the product they purchased and will continue to restrict anything on it unless Apple can make a buck. I want people to buy Apple products, and I want them to continue to think they are "bright" or "creative" because they purchased these magical devices. It gives me the edge on everyone else who are trying to talk into their phones in the elevator when I am getting real work done.
misleading by Tom · 2012-02-27 21:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

Supposedly Evi will be continue to be allowed on iOS if it alters its interface to be dissimilar enough from Siri to placate Apple.
Which is not an entirely unreasonable request. Apple's strength is massively in brand recognition, so making sure your customers aren't confused about what is and what isn't an Apple product makes a lot of sense.
Plus they didn't just pull it, they apparently told the developers what they were concerned about and asked for their cooperation.
I fail to see where the news story is in this one.

--
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Re:Which localization? by gmhowell · 2012-02-27 21:49 · Score: 2

yes, but you are not a hard coded program, you are the current top of the line adaptive learning system.
Given a major pleasure center is so close to a waste disposal area, I'd still say his engineer needs to work on a better model for v2.0.

--
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
It's localisation... by alex67500 · 2012-02-27 23:00 · Score: 2

It's localisation, with an 's', you illiterate sod!
Business plan by rbowen · 2012-02-28 01:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'll bet this threat sells a million copies of the app. I hadn't heard of it yesterday. Now I've bought it. It was only $0.99 How many more of you did that?
I see a business plan here. What other of the default apps can I copy ...

--
Apache guy, Open Source enthusiast, runner
Twelve months later by tepples · 2012-02-28 04:06 · Score: 2

What do you do 12 months after you become a licensed iOS developer and all your self-signed apps stop working?