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US Wants Natural Gas As Major Auto Fuel Option

coondoggie writes "Natural gas has never been much of an option for U.S. car drivers, and it's going to take a lot of effort by the government and auto manufacturers to make it a viable alternative to gas. But that's just what a $10 million program from the Department of Energy's advanced project development group The Advanced Research Projects Agency — Energy (ARPA-E) aims to start anyway. ARPA-E's Methane Opportunities for Vehicular Energy (MOVE) program wants to develop a system 'that could enable natural gas vehicles with on-board storage and at-home refueling with a five-year payback or upfront cost differential of $2,000, which excludes the balance of system and installation costs.'"

6 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. If Pakistan had it 13 years ago, why not America? by exhilaration · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember when I visited my family in Pakistan back in 1999. My uncle had a switch under the dashboard of his car which switched the fuel source from gasoline to CNG (compressed natural gas) while he was driving, with the CNG being stored in a tank in the trunk. He'd switch to gasoline when driving around the mountains of the capital for the extra power but otherwise keep it at CNG because natural gas was cheaper. This car hadn't come with CNG - the conversion had cost a few hundred dollars (US dollars, I don't remember the price in rupees) for his 1980's model sedan.

  2. Re:Oh Frack! by Dynedain · · Score: 5, Informative

    CNG vehicles have been around forever, and fill up stations are somewhat common.

    Getting people used to the idea of automotive fuels OTHER than gasoline, and the infrastructures to support it is an overall good thing, regardless of the fuel source. If you can convince the populace at large that 2-3 vehicle fuel sources are commonly available and easy to use, then it's less difficult to get another fuel source (say electricity or fuel cells) into the mix.

    --
    I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
  3. Conversion Costs vs Recovery Time by JamJam · · Score: 5, Informative
    There a local program which describes the conversion costs and recovery time (in miles) for converting your vehicle to run on natural gas.

    - The after market conversion leaves the existing gasoline system intact and adds the natural gas package to the vehicle. The installation of a natural gas system includes a cylinder that is mounted underneath, in the back of the truck or in the trunk of a car. One 70-litre cylinder equals 18 litres of gasoline and weighs approximately 160 pounds.

    Cost Based on a typical ½ ton truck

    $9000 - Conversion w/ 2 - 70 litre cylinders
    $1.0090 - Gasoline Pump Price per litre
    $0.4790 - Natural Gas Pump Price per Litre Equivalent of Gasoline
    $0.5300 - Savings per Litre Displaced
    $2.409 - Savings per Gallon Displaced

    15 mpg gasoline mileage
    $160.63- Savings per Thousand Miles

    56,031 miles - Miles on Natural Gas Required to Recover Cost of Conversion

  4. it's been tried by roc97007 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I used to work for the local gas company. For decades they've had a compressed natural gas conversion for cars and a small compressor setup for the home at reasonable startup cost ($2,500 at the time). The range wasn't great, (for range you need LNG) but it was better than today's all electric cars and you could fuel up at home in a much shorter time than with electric. The fleet all ran on natural gas, filling up at their own company-maintained filling stations, and besides being cheaper and having lower emissions, as a collateral benefit they were getting exceptional life from the engines of their fleet vehicles.

    As I was interested in this conversion myself and only learned about it by accident, I struck up a conversation with the head of marketing asking why they weren't promoting it, since it was an existing solution that people could buy for their own vehicles if they only knew about it.

    And most importantly, in most areas the distribution network is already in place, something that Electric is currently struggling with.

    He said that the company was under pressure not to promote a consumer compressed natural gas solution for automobiles. He was unwilling to say where the pressure was coming from. I always wondered about that.

    So, in short, the solution already exists, exactly as described, and has since at least the nineties. As far as I can see, there's nothing to develop here, just remove the roadblocks to existing solutions.

    Mind you, it works best for dedicated commuter and in-town cars, because to keep the cost and complexity down, the car *only* runs on compressed natural gas, and CNG does not have the energy per volume as either LNG or gasoline. But in my opinion CNG is more practical than electric in several respects, not the least of which there are no batteries to replace/recycle.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  5. First Off, Listen to Chris Martenson by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you want to know the future of energy, listen to this Chris Martenson lecture, I believe scary times are ahead:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBiTnBwSWc

    As for natural gas.... right now proven world reserves stands at stands at 191T m^3. The US has about 7T m^3, and a huge chunk of the rest is in Russia and Iran, which are not exactly friendly to us nor have we exactly been cultivating decent relationship with them. Since China is scouring the globe for energy sources, I assume they have or will get long term contracts from one or both of them.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_gas_proven_reserves

    Our world usage last year was 168T ft^3 according to this:
    http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/ieo/nat_gas.cfm

    Google tells me that is equal to 3.2T m^3.

    So at current rates, assuming 100% extraction, we have 60 years of Natural Gas. The best case at current usage for proven reserves, much of which are in hostile countries.

    The IEA predicts a 2.2% increase in demand annually. Using the rule of 70, that's a doubling time of ~32 years. That cuts down the best case scenario for Natural Gas down to 39 years, at current uses, meaning we don't start leaning on it heavily for transportation and the like.

    Now, the scientist in my top link talks about how if everyone switched over to electric cars, they would have to go from 300 generating plants to 3,000. One order of magnitude, 10x. Without doing specific calculations, perhaps we can assume that could carry over to natural gas if used extensive for personal transportation. How many years then?

    Yes, NG can be used in conjunction with oil and other energy sources and carry us for a while longer until we find a real solution.

  6. Re:reserved by Wansu · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ah, yes. Perhaps if we redesign landfills to harvest natural gas from then they'll be taken over by Exxon, BP, et al.

    "When shit becomes gold, the poor will have no assholes."
      -- an unknown but astute source

    --
    Wansu, th' chinese sailor