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Cheap Solar Panels Made With An Ion Cannon

MrSeb writes "Twin Creeks, a solar power startup that emerged from hiding today, has developed a way of creating photovoltaic cells that are half the price of today's cheapest cells, and thus within reach of challenging the fossil fuel hegemony. As it stands, almost every solar panel is made by slicing a 200-micrometer-thick (0.2mm) wafer from a block of crystalline silicon. You then add some electrodes, cover it in protective glass, and leave it in a sunny area to generate electricity through the photovoltaic effect. There are two problems with this approach: Much in the same way that sawdust is produced when you slice wood, almost half of the silicon block is wasted when it's cut into 200-micrometer slices; and second, the panels would still function just as well if they were thinner than 200 micrometers, but silicon is brittle and prone to cracking if it's too thin. Using a hydrogen ion particle accelerator, Twin Creeks has managed to create very thin (20-micrometer), flexible photovoltaic cells that can be produced for just 40 cents per watt; around half the cost of conventional solar cells, and a price point that encroaches on standard, mostly-hydrocarbon-derived grid power."

20 of 395 comments (clear)

  1. Get ready for....nothing! by Rossman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Man how many times have we seen these stories already - "cheap solar power discovery, will make solar pv affordable" but then years later nothing has changed.

    It would be great if some of these things actually got productizd, I would set up solar pv all over my property if it was just a bit more cost effective...

    1. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by sycodon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, to use the common argument against drilling, if it will take more than just a few years to see the benefit, then why even bother with it?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, we here many of these stories, and then years later nothing has changed... Other than the fact that the cost/watt of pv has continued to drop a significant percentage year after year after year. If that doesn't suit one's definition of progress, redefine "nothing has changed"...

      (..), I would set up solar pv all over my property if it was just a bit more cost effective...

      If I'm not mistaken, pv already is cost-effective if not cheaper than conventional energy sources in a variety of places, be it with a significant upfront investment (but with cost-effective = including that investment). Any progress in the cost/watt department will simply increase the # of places where it pays to put up solar panels.

    3. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, that's not the argument against drilling. The argument against drilling is that the benefit will be short term, i.e. that it will only last 1-2 years. The benefit of R&D lasts much longer - even when this technology is obsolete, the next one is likely to be based on what was learned developing it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Really, the problem is that Solar cells used to be 10x too expensive to be worthwhile for most people. Now they're only 2-3x too expensive. In a few more years they could actually start to become commonplace.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    5. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With the subsidy factored in, they're actually a reasonably good investment now. The problem is that the current rate of development means that if I wait for a few years I'll get a much better system. This isn't a problem for something like a computer, because it's relatively cheap and I'll replace it in a few years anyway. Something like a solar power system I'd want to last for at least 10 years. If I can get one twice as good for the same price in two years, it's worth waiting...

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by BetterSense · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, photovoltaic cells have a fundamental efficiency limit, and we are already close (well within an order of magnitude) of that already.

      Also, it's more than that. Mostly, solar energy is not concentrated. People are just spoiled by semiconductor integrated circuits. Photovoltaics have been steadily improving, but the fact is solar power is not very dense...actual sunlight is not a concentrated source of energy. There's only so many watts per square meter that fall, and the sun doesn't always shine. The only way to get real gains is to set out more solar panels. So there is going to be no "breakthrough" like there sometimes is with other technologies that are enabled by integrated circuits; even if somebody invents the absolute perfect solar cell that sucks up every uJ of energy that hits it.

      People set their expectations based on technologies that are enabled by integrated circuits, but fail to realize that more fundamental technologies can't be doubled in speed or cut to 1/4 the cost just be printing more of them on the same amount of silicon.

    7. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by tmosley · · Score: 1, Insightful

      More lies. If it used more energy than it produced, you could never make your money back. Energy isn't free for manufacturing plants.

    8. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by Dishevel · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wow. Really? I had absolutely no idea that most oil wells only lasted a year or two.
      Look. I like the idea of Solar Panels, Wind Turbines, Tide Generators and the like. Where they work.
      Where they do not I want coal or oil being used as cleanly and efficiently as possible.
      But when greentards come around and blatantly spew out lies to make one technology seem better than another it angers me.
      Solar has its good points. You do not have to fucking lie about shit to make it good.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    9. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by Artraze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, it also doesn't hurt that when the technology comes out you get the marketing number only.

      Sure, the panels are 40c/W, but put them in a box, pay the employees and overhear and then they're $1/W. Install them with a conversion system and batteries and all of a sudden they're $3-$7 per Watt much like they've always really been. (And of course, that's peak, and the average cost it probably more like $10-$25 / Watt.)

      Developments like these are positive, to be sure, but the cells themselves are only part of a pretty pricy equation. Even if this tech pans out, it probably won't end up reducing the price much more than 20%. Nice, but no where near the "half" that they like to tell you.

    10. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can keep your solar cells. Up here in Minnesota where the average amount of sun per day is significantly less than 8 hours in the winter I'd prefer nuclear.

      I've got the spot all picked out for my own personal traveling wave reactor.

    11. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by mattiaza · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We are very close to the fundamental efficiency limit of *power per square meter*. Which is a valid, but secondary concern. If solar cells are cheap enough, there is plenty of space for them in deserts, suburban roofs, and perhaps even parking lots! A manhattan skyscraper won't be able to power itself, but a 30km*30km plot of land in Nevada receives enough sunlight over 24 hours to power the entire U.S. with electricity. The important metrics for any energy source are: * cost per watt over the entire lifetime of the system * pollution caused and non-renewable materials used per watt over the entire lifetime of the system. This research improves the cost per watt metric. As soon as it is better than coal, we will see huge solar cell power stations.

    12. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by operagost · · Score: 1, Insightful

      With the subsidy factored in

      Goody! I can have renewable energy, and all I have to do is make my fellow citizens pay for it!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    13. Re:Get ready for....nothing! by epine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Goody! I can have renewable energy, and all I have to do is make my fellow citizens pay for it!

      The great thing about hating the government is never having to think. In many situations such as this one, where society needs to navigate a large infrastructure change, the early adopters provide a public good so that it becomes possible to achieve a Libertarian price point in the fat lump of the adoption curve sooner rather than later. You can argue that I'm wrong in this case, but it requires two orders of magnitude more mental input than your original comment.

      My father installed a 1st generation heat-pump technology in the early 1980s. It was hardly painless. Mostly worked pretty good, but some components were failing every 18 months, until design problems were identified and resolved.

      And that's nothing compared to what we pay bankers to fail on our behalf. If my father got a subsidy, it went right back out the door on expected unexpected maintenance costs. The bankers sent their subsidies straight to Switzerland.

  2. Re:Hegemony, schmegemony by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even with the losses, I always though hydrogen would be the way to go for excess energy stored up through the day. Of course, on a large scale, I wouldn't be using photovoltaics but perhaps some type of concentrator and steam electrolysis. Molten salt may also be a way to go at that level.

    On a small level, how problematic would hydrogen be to store if used for things like heating a house? I realize it wouldn't power cars at its density level (natural gas already takes up too much space).

    Another solution may be storing the energy as compressed air.

  3. Selling the Shovels by necro81 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This company isn't a solar panel manufacturer, per se, but rather a company that wants to manufacture semiconductor wafers that are thinner than you can get right now, with less waste. So, they are like those enterprising fellows that sold the shovels and pickaxes to gold prospectors back in the day. They didn't care who struck it rich so long as they could sell the equipment and supplies to all comers. They aren't Xerox or a publishing company; these guys want to sell reams of paper.

    This is great stuff – an innovation that can benefit the whole industry. There are other companies that are working along similar lines, though with different technology. 1366 Technologies is one that comes to mind.

  4. Oil gives the world 160 exajoules per year... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    is all I can think when I read these stories.

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    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  5. They don't make cells, they make machines by Kagato · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Twin Creeks doesn't make solar cells. They make machines used for making the major component of the cells. They have production ready machines for sales right now. According to the Wall Street Journal article they are quite happy to sell the machines to Red China and the WSJ thinks that's who's going to buy most of them given they have the capital and they don't have irrational politicians that think "green" is a bad word. We could be making the cells here in the US. But that's not going to happen because it's more politically expedient to sell out the countries future for short term gains. The end result is this technology will create a few hundred jobs in the US to make the specialized machines. Most of the end products will be purchased by European and Asian customers who have a long term energy policy.

  6. Re:Challenge the fossil fuel ..??? by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You don't have to solve every problem on day 1. Simply reducing the load on Coal power plants and letting more people charge their (electric) cars off of solar would already make a huge dent in the fossil fuel consumption across the globe. Maybe in 5-10 years such a setup will be practical, depending on advances in battery and solar technologies. It's hard to predict. Airplanes will still use fossil fuels (or maybe biofuels if that pans out), but that's alright because the pressure on them will be lessened from several other sectors of the economy.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  7. Re:watts/sq. ft? by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Meh, the world isn't lacking in area that could be covered with solar panels.

    Lol, the young and ignorant.

    Here's a slight fact that you seem to forget... all this land you are referring to,
    hosts some type of flora or fauna that the environmental groups will not allow
    you to kill or modify the territory of.

    And while I'm not at the height of tree hugging... stopping the use of fossil fuels
    to remedy one issue by creating another one, isn't exactly the greatest of ideas.

    Rooftops are the key, that is what this article is about. This company has devised
    a cheaper method of production and at the same time, made a solar cell that is
    flexible. That means more rooftop installs. More on the side of water storage tank
    installs. Farmer Brown gets to make some money cause his corn silos have some
    solar cells wrapped around them, and there's solar on his barn roof, etc.

    The solution to fossil fuel independence, isn't killing indigenous plants and animals
    to install large solar heaters. It is making each person grid independent. And to
    get them off of fossil fuels by providing an at-home electrical solution.

    -AI

    --
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion