Turkey Bans Pastebin and Tinyurl

Can they stop them all? by longhairedgnome · 2012-03-15 16:34 · Score: 1

I'm sure http://www.socuteurl.com/ will still work.

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Re:Can they stop them all? by sg_oneill · 2012-03-15 16:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

This its really playing whack-a-mole from the moles perspective. It might get your head above ground for a while, but ultimately that hammer will hit you smack on the head.
The problem really is Turkey is not acting like the modern liberal democracy it claims to be, and I think it really needs to be called out on that fact.
That said, I think we all should treat this sort of thing as the canary in the coal mine of democracy. If turkey can pull this garbage off and get away with it, then so can America, Europe, UK and Australia, because after all, turkey is just another liberal democracy right? The enemys of of our democracy, conservatives and pseudo-progressive alike at home are taking notes as we speak.

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Re:Can they stop them all? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-15 17:07 · Score: 5, Informative

Turkey has a governmental department that regulates what the imams will preach in the mosques.
The military forced out the government four times in the last sixty years, the last time was fifteen years ago.
There's literally hundreds of judgements by the European Court of Human Rights against Turkey.
There's still ongoing concerns about torture in the judicial system.
For fuck's sake, this is a country that once executed a guy for opposing a ban on a certain type of HAT.
So no, Turkey isn't "just another liberal democracy right".
Re:Can they stop them all? by seyyah · 2012-03-15 17:18 · Score: 1

Turkey has never been a functional democracy. The military has a major hand in directing government policy and the state employs all kind of repressive measures (including torture) against groups and individuals who do not subscribe to the government-instituted identity created in the 1920s and 30s.
Re:Can they stop them all? by justforgetme · 2012-03-15 18:02 · Score: 1

Still Turkey is on full speed to become the latest full member of the EU...
Just to say that Democracy and liberal rights don't seem to count that much
in the halls that once instituted modern democracy.

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Re:Can they stop them all? by cold+fjord · 2012-03-15 18:04 · Score: 2

Shocker: Turkish think-tank recommends Turkey as model for "Arab Spring" revolutions
Losing Turkey to the Islamists
The Trouble With Turkey
‘Islam Is Islam, And That’s It’
Islamist Turkey vs. Secular Iran?

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Re:Can they stop them all? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-15 18:35 · Score: 1

As a citizen. I would not call it "full speed". But I guess that is not the issue here.
Re:Can they stop them all? by Patch86 · 2012-03-15 19:51 · Score: 1

Hardly "full speed". They've basically been told "you can join as soon as you get your democratic act together"- which this clearly isn't.
Re:Can they stop them all? by gl4ss · 2012-03-15 20:19 · Score: 4, Informative

turkey won't be the next full member. other countries are joining in the meantime, but turkeys process has been stalled for as long as I can remember reading the news, it's one step forward two steps back. they're a nato member though since forever, which had made them a probable eu joiner.
and if they became a full member of EU, their government would be fucked, their military top personnel would get insta-sued, their imaams and christian clerics would be free to preach whatever the fuck they want, booze would be available at every street corner with hookers&blow from italy, they would have to fix their prison system and release a large bunch of guys who would proceed to sue the government straight away, they would lose tariff controlling their economy and they'd have to stop bickering with kurds, boooyahhhhhh!(they would still be able to block sites distributing copyrighted material though..).
I don't think EU member states would go as far as to provide retroactive amnesty for anyone who had been involved in the government in Turkey.. but still, preparing for turkeys eventual joining sometime in the far future creates some byro-jobs.

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Re:Can they stop them all? by Per+Abrahamsen · 2012-03-15 20:56 · Score: 1

You have an interesting definition of "full speed". Turkey applied for membership in 1987, when EEC had 12 members. It is negotiating membership today 25 years later, when EU have 27 members, some of which didn't even exists as nations at the time Turkey first applied for membership.
Re:Can they stop them all? by LQ · 2012-03-15 21:45 · Score: 1

Turkey has a governmental department that regulates what the imams will preach in the mosques.
The military forced out the government four times in the last sixty years, the last time was fifteen years ago.
There's literally hundreds of judgements by the European Court of Human Rights against Turkey.
There's still ongoing concerns about torture in the judicial system.
For fuck's sake, this is a country that once executed a guy for opposing a ban on a certain type of HAT.
So no, Turkey isn't "just another liberal democracy right".
Yet Turkey is held up as something the countries of the Arab Spring can aspire to. Shows how far theyve all got to go.
Re:Can they stop them all? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-15 21:53 · Score: 1

The military was the only thing keeping Turkey from turning into a theocracy. Ataturk basically abolished the more barbaric aspects of Islam in favor of modern secularization (abolished sharia in favor of secular law and banning the face veil, among other things). He did what was necessary and sadly, nobody completed what he started and wiped out religion entirely, meaning it left only a matter of time before the military lost it's struggle for power. Now the military has finally lost the struggle to popular will (see mass "resignations" in 2011) and you're seeing both the foreign policy become more belligerent and the domestic policy become more totalitarian. The people want Islam, and this is what it entails. Over the next few years you're going to see turkey more and more Islamic and less and less friendly towards the west. There is really nothing that can be done. The battle lines between east and west are being drawn -- slowly but surely.
Re:Can they stop them all? by xenobyte · 2012-03-15 21:58 · Score: 3

Several EU countries blocks Turkey completely due to their failure to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.
Turkey not only denies that it happened but actively and militantly pursue anyone who even mentions it. They block Wikipedia due to their page on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
The EU countries demand that Turkey both acknowledges the event and apologize to the Armenian people and especially to the families of the victims. Turkey flatly refuses and these EU countries continuously veto any attempts at giving Turkey any kind of special or applicant status pending their compliance in this matter.

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Re:Can they stop them all? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-15 23:01 · Score: 1

Do you realise how fucking stupid you sound?
Your not describing "Islam". Your describing "2000-odd years ago"
I'm guessing by certain idiotic parts of your rant ("The old testament, is considered historically accurate"? By whom? The mentally retarded?) that you're Christian. Christ was quite happy with the concept of slaves and expected them to fall into line with everyone else. Unlike Muhammad who wrote a large amount on how slaves should be treated, particularly in the event of their owner dying. Similar for women, another group that Christianity largely ignores. Both religions regard themselves as peaceful. Both religions include some blatant (by modern standards) hypocrisy. And both religions worship the Abrahamic God, which, as far as I'm concerned, mean everyone involved in these moronic Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam arguments is heading straight for hell.
"exterminating black slaves"? Did you just pull that out of your arse? Have you ever read the Koran? I don't remember a single mention of race.
Re:Can they stop them all? by Hognoxious · 2012-03-16 00:37 · Score: 2

Indeed.
How many states do they intend to make out of Mexico when it joins the union?

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Re:Can they stop them all? by justforgetme · 2012-03-16 00:58 · Score: 1

Ok, I might have exaggerated this one a wee little bit. But surely It might as well be correct since the politicians that run the EU are too feeble to call them out on their practices and come over all polite. Last time I heard an EU rep talk about Turkey's accession he was extolling the progress they had made towards politic stability... Really?

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Re:Can they stop them all? by couchslug · 2012-03-16 02:37 · Score: 1

Turkey is in the unenviable position of being caught between Ataturkism and Islam.
Ataturk understood what it took to push Turkey somewhat into the modern age, but the methods were harsh and as the military grip loosens Islamists will win. Islam is bad, Ataturkism is bad (ask surviving Armenians!), and Turkey should be kept out of the EU because it's not rational to weaken the EU by installing enemy cultures in positions of power. (If your culture doesn't promote secular freedom, it's evil to that degree. )

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Re:Can they stop them all? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-16 04:30 · Score: 1

I agree that the GP should have supplied a link, but his cited story is a pretty famous hadith (sayings & practices of Mohammed) that's well known among practising Muslims. In fact, in the qur'an, while Muslims apologists often site a verse 5:32 that has parallels in the Torah (he who kills one innocent person without just cause is as guilty as having killed all of humanity), the very next verse 5:33 states that if the person being killed is guilty of mischief in the land, his left arm and right foot should be cut off, and he should be crucified. That's the verse that the last paragraph in the above citation refers to - if one wishes, one can go to quranbrowser.com, enter 5:33 in the search box and do a search there.
Those who claim that this was from centuries ago forget that this is the basis for the regimes in Sudan, as well as the Taliban regime in Afghanistan for doing those mutiliations of hands & feet of their people. That's a contemporary practice - it's not merely from centuries ago. And while it's true that this practise has been most visible in Afghanistan and Sudan, it's a part of the overall Shariah law that Muslims seek to spread everywhere - whether it's Arab spring countries like Libya, or Muslim activists battling state propositions like OK seeking to ban Shariah law.
Back to Turkey - even though for a while Turkey was secular, thanks to Kemal and the army, as the army grip on Turkey has loosened, islam has made a comeback. Turkey today is trending back towards its pre-Kemalist Islamic past, and has been supporting the Saudi initiatives in Syria to help the Sunnis topple the Shia, while working with Iran in supporting Islamic groups like the Chechens in the Caucausus. Ironically, the EU's insistence that the Turkish military loosen their grip on the government has only served to make it easier for Islam to make a comeback, even as it's this new Turkey that the EU is working to include in its ranks. Given the way countries like UK, France, Sweden, Netherlands have been toxified by heavy infiltration of Muslims from countries like Pakistan, Morocco, Algeria, Turkey, and other Muslim countries, I guess Europe isn't doing any worse by helping first Islamize Turkey, and then welcoming that into the EU. As they say, Alhadimullah!
Re:Can they stop them all? by ponraul · 2012-03-16 07:17 · Score: 1

I'm familiar with how sites are blocked in Turkey.

They don't have a Chinese style "great firewall." Instead the tell the isps to not resolve the dns of certian addresses. Such filtering can be circumvented by using dns servers that aren't run by major isps.
Re:Can they stop them all? by L3370 · 2012-03-16 07:43 · Score: 1

Lived there for a couple years. Booze is already free flowing, and is not a cultural taboo at all, at least in the west. Prostitution is huge too. Trannny's everywhere at night. Russian imported women too.

Not trying to take away from your message... just stating those two, from my experience, is alive and flourishing already.

What else? by rrohbeck · 2012-03-15 16:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

So has Slashdot been banned yet? File lockers? Blogs? I have a feeling those datasets need some replication so the Turks can get them.

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Re:What else? by L4t3r4lu5 · 2012-03-15 20:52 · Score: 1

BTK: Our sikrits have been put up on posters and stuck up on buildings all over the city!
Greek court: BAN ALL WALLS.

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Gotta block pastebin! by Tyrannosaur · 2012-03-15 16:43 · Score: 2

Because there aren't hundreds of other sites that you can dump passwords on for people to see? How does Turkey see this slippery slope as sustainable? Just do us the favour of having to watch it in slow-motion and cut off the entire internet. It would get to the resolution of all this a whole lot faster.

Re:Gotta block pastebin! by viperidaenz · 2012-03-15 17:53 · Score: 2

Yeah, they should use MegaUpload instead
Re:Gotta block pastebin! by gox · 2012-03-15 22:30 · Score: 1

They just need support of Western nations, and the everyday excuse. If the US/EU takes one more a step towards censorship, they'll make one more leap. What Turkey wants to censor the most are "terrorist publications", but most of their definitions are vague (they might even have been the model for the 21. century "terror" rhetoric of the US, but they don't have enough political power to enforce their will globally), which is very hard to support externally, so they tend to make their advances using the "children", "copyright" and "security" rhetoric, which are politically more acceptable.
I don't think the model they have in mind is a cut off of Internet, but instead an approval mechanism (they've attempted this more than a decade ago but basically no one cared, the proposed methods were practically impossible). So essentially you will be able to publish information if you have a certificate from a government agency of an ally country. I think it's what any government wants really.
Also, you can't pull these things off without support of the populace, which they have.

Turkey, meet me at camera 3 by UltimaBuddy · 2012-03-15 16:44 · Score: 5, Interesting

So, while I gotta respect your unique position at the nexus between cultures, you really don't know what you're doing, do you?

It's shit like this, Turkey. Just... shit like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

Yeah, even 2021 is a bit optimistic.

Re:Turkey, meet me at camera 3 by Formalin · 2012-03-15 16:58 · Score: 4, Insightful

Turkey is never going to enter the EU. It just isn't going to happen. They've been getting trolled for decades.
Besides, the EU might not even exist by then, at least not in current form.
Re:Turkey, meet me at camera 3 by rastoboy29 · 2012-03-16 09:42 · Score: 1

You realize it was the Netherlands that ordered ISP's to block the Pirate Bay, right? And that the US came dangerously close to Random Corporate Internet blocking (SOPA) just a few weeks ago, right?

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They banned tinyurl by Ralph+Spoilsport · 2012-03-15 17:31 · Score: 2

because bit.ly paid 'em off. I mean if you follow "who has the most to gain" theory of detective work type of thing...

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Who needs tiny? by dmomo · 2012-03-15 17:40 · Score: 1

They should still be able to make their URLs cute.

Re:Who needs tiny? by Xtifr · 2012-03-15 18:28 · Score: 4, Informative

That's for wimps. Badasses use Shady URLs. I mean, how can you not feel good going to http://5z8.info/38--start.spamBot--this-ip--_s1h7hw_racist

actually how are they blocking ? by johnjones · 2012-03-15 17:46 · Score: 1

ok so in a lot of countries block objecting sites...

in the UK (which is still in the EU) they block child pornography sites via DNS and url this even blocked part of wikipedia.org for a while until people noticed...
(there is no public list)

so what really interest's me is how are they blocking those sites ?
who sold this to them or did they develop it themselves and are they issuing SSL certificates for sites to inspect the payload of SSL traffic ?

anyone actually have the TECHNICAL DETAILS ?

regards

John Jones

Re:actually how are they blocking ? by Archon-X · 2012-03-15 17:49 · Score: 4, Informative

If it's the same implementation as Turkey's (now defuct) ban YouTube, it was done on a DNS level.
Simply changing your DNS servers to anything else (Google / OpenDNS, etc) - not only do you bypass the block, but you also have reliable DNS.
Re:actually how are they blocking ? by mcgrew · 2012-03-16 06:07 · Score: 1

so what really interest's me
What interests me is finding out why in the hell you guys do that?

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Hardly ECHR compliant by igb · 2012-03-15 18:20 · Score: 1

I guess all that talk about how keen Turkey is to join the EU is just that: talk.

Re:Pasting the Turkey by EdIII · 2012-03-15 18:28 · Score: 1

Wait, what does tinyurl have to do with basting a turkey?

According to Rule 34 of the Internet there is a website that will help explain that to you.

Ban Tinyurl? by w3vnzoom · 2012-03-15 19:49 · Score: 1

Ban tinyurl is really? They can Ban all of shortUrl? Wordpress URLs

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Re:Turkey, meet me at camera 3 (PU) by gl4ss · 2012-03-15 20:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

Norway may be granted entry before Turkey but not both. Already too many 3rd-world 'countries' in Eu as it is so a Norway AND a Turkey won't fly (ask one Arthur Carlson). Any more and it would be PU.

lol. norway could join tomorrow if they wanted. no one in EU would say no to that, their human rights situation etc are more in compliance with eu rules than most eu countries. Norway isn't in EU because they're swimming in cash and they don't hate their government. Norway just happens to be getting what it wants from eu anyways. and fyi you can just walk over from eu to norway - if you're prepared to pay 8 bucks for a beer at a discount store and more for tobacco than in nyc.

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Re:Turkey, meet me at camera 3 (PU) by Elbart · 2012-03-15 20:28 · Score: 3

Norway may be granted entry before Turkey but not both.

The people of Norway made it clear already (twice!) that they have no interest of being in the EU.

Incompetent, much? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-15 20:36 · Score: 1

This is not about democracy or being liberal or EU or whatever. This is a major chain feth up created by incompetents. Some idiot database administrator/webcoder lacked experience, or technical mojo, to secure the database access and the information residing there within. When it got leaked they did what any panicked administration who has no regard for public relations whatsoever does: ban everything that makes you look bad. What would be the repercussions? Lemme tell you: none. The sysadmin who works for the institution who created this situation will not even get a reprimand.

I mean this is very funny in a very tragic way. A government institution starts to gather information, vital, sensitive kind including gsm numbers and all that. This information is stored in a database without any kind of encryption. Info gets leaked, the users who has nothing to do with this activity suffers...

Do you see it? This is about not owning your shit up. The responsibility "thing" is missing from there. Why oh why does a government institution stoops to collect this kind of information should be asked but a more important question resides there: why does nobody owns the situation up and merely tries to assess it in a, I dunno, calm way and say "hey, what the hell are we doing? Why are we banning these public services for two or three pages? Not only it will make us look bad; it will also generate more attention to those files..."

And the same administration assumes a very shocked face when smart people leave here for good and do not return... "oh but why the 'brain drain' happens?" Seriously?!

Re:Turkey, meet me at camera 3 (PU) by JWSmythe · 2012-03-15 21:18 · Score: 1

Watch out, the next time there is a vote on it, there may be 113% of the voters who approve joining the EU.

It wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened in history ... or even in the last month.

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Turkey WAS a liberal DICTATORSHIP by SmallFurryCreature · 2012-03-15 22:33 · Score: 2

The modern Turkey was because it was a dictatorship ruled by the military who was okay with somewhat democratic leaders until they misbehaved and were stepped on. HARD!

The army enforced that the vision of Ataturk was followed and all was well, Turkey prospored and the west had a Muslim nation that leaned heavily to western ideas and values.

But the west didn't like this, democracy is the way and so Erdogan got into power and has been using the religious whankers to build his power base, relying on their fear of the westernized Turkey to build his powerbase. Roughly similar to how Republicans use fundementalist Christians. So it is moderate and liberal Muslims who favor dictatorship and fear democracy. The world is a strange and complex place and one solution definitly does not fit all. Not that the military is nice... they just are nicer then Erdogan. See Egypts military for a similar deal. A lot of Muslim nations are kept in check by military leaders who are far more modern then their supposedly democratic leaders.

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Re:Turkey WAS a liberal DICTATORSHIP by gox · 2012-03-15 23:12 · Score: 1

Not that the military is nice... they just are nicer then Erdogan.
Well I mostly agree to your other points, but not this. You can't herd a nation indefinitely. They need to shoot themselves in the foot and learn in the process. Western nations would not be able to adopt such an authoritative position in these matters if they hadn't screwed up royally in the past. Turkish people who approve censorship should be ashamed of themselves but at the current state they basically lack the wisdom.
Hell, racism was running rampant last time I was there, no one I met felt particularly awkward when others made derogatory remarks about Kurds, and even their extermination. Granted, that may be only a section of the population (mostly western-Turkey Kemalists), but they still are dearly in need of a confrontation with themselves. They lack it completely, *because* of the military herding of the past decades. These people (the old ruling class?) didn't even know that more than half the country didn't share their beliefs, and didn't feel threatened enough to voice bigoted arguments.
What I personally gather from all this, is that the majority population of Turkey currently lack the ability to take actions based on their own views, hence, they don't actually know what their views entail. Yes, it will take a painfully long time for them to figure out, but I think it's inevitable.
Re:Turkey WAS a liberal DICTATORSHIP by Jaysyn · 2012-03-15 23:44 · Score: 1

Roughly similar to how Republicans use fundementalist Christians.
I hate to change the subject but I was talking to my girlfriend about this yesterday. I don't think you have it the right way around. I think the Christian Dominionists are hitching themselves to the greediest citizens that generally care the least about civil liberties, especially if they are getting rich off of their loss (I'm looking at you prison industry). That group just happens to be your average crony-type Republican at this point in time.

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Re:Turkey WAS a liberal DICTATORSHIP by OeLeWaPpErKe · 2012-03-16 00:25 · Score: 1

Well I mostly agree to your other points, but not this. You can't herd a nation indefinitely.

Cute general theoretical principle. Please get me a side of fluffy pink unicors with that.
You not only can, but if you don't, war will follow.
Re:Turkey WAS a liberal DICTATORSHIP by gox · 2012-03-16 02:50 · Score: 1

if you don't, war will follow.
That's what I was advocating, preferably a more 'civil' one. I'd expect to be labeled as evil, rather than naive though.

Citation Needed by FhnuZoag · 2012-03-15 22:52 · Score: 4, Interesting

I'm posting this up high so it'll be read.

*Can anyone actually confirm that tinyurl has been blocked in Turkey?*

I'm saying this, because the linked article and the submission doesn't mention Tinyurl (or indeed Pastebin) at all, and Slashdot seems to be the only people stating this news. Is this something that's actually happened or are we spreading false rumours here?

Re:Citation Needed by anonimim · 2012-03-16 02:21 · Score: 4, Informative

According to this article from a major Turkish newspaper, related authority in charge (BTK) revised and lifted the Tinyurl.com ban today! Ban was in effect since the 1st of March, so it's probably lifted due to recent press coverage. Engelliweb includes a catalog of blocked websites in Turkey. You can check related pages for Tinyurl and Pastebin to confirm the bans. Linked article was from the February, when BTK databases were leaked to Pastebin. So it doesn't cover the recent events.

Re:Turkey, meet me at camera 3 (PU) by speedwaystar · 2012-03-15 23:25 · Score: 1

nice troll, but just to step up... are you SERIOUSLY attempting to suggest that Norway is a 3rd world country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

which country is at #1 for 2011?

which country is at #4?

Never by ThatsNotPudding · 2012-03-15 23:39 · Score: 1

Never let these yahoos into the EU. Ever.

Re:Turkey, meet me at camera 3 (PU) by Hognoxious · 2012-03-16 00:42 · Score: 2

I think he meant Greece.

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Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

US will lose by OeLeWaPpErKe · 2012-03-16 00:54 · Score: 1

You see this everytime, and it's true. The US was the nation that has been pushing the world towards freedom in the last 50 years. Most other nations, including those in the EU, don't agree that there should be freedom of the press in the sense that Americans understand the word.

In America lots of nations are considered more free than America because in one specific detail they're slightly more

Of course that doesn't mean there isn't a world of difference between EU and something like muslims or china. There is, and sadly it varies from "free except x,y,z" (EU) and "print what we say, and crossword puzzles" (china) to "do what we say, and we'll still attack you" (muslims). Live for a month in a few different parts of the world and you'll see this in practice.

This idea, that absolute freedom of opinion is even good is losing ground, for 2 reasons. Firstly, it's losing ground in America. Whether we're talking liberals (don't say anything about race) to republicans (don't say anything bad about capitalism). Second, America itself is losing ground, and not to nations that espouse freedom of opinion as a core value. Just compare the US to, oh the UN for example, and you'll see the horror that is the truth.

Obama's 'favorite ruler in the mideast region' by gelfling · 2012-03-16 04:02 · Score: 1

Is Turkey's Erdogan.

Turkey Pans Baste Bin by oldmac31310 · 2012-03-16 05:27 · Score: 1

I think this is just an ad for kitchen equipment typically used at Thanksgiving / Christmas. Wrong time of year!

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Turkey Bans Pastebin and Tinyurl

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