Microsoft Demos Metro UI For Enterprise Apps

Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by SuricouRaven · 2012-03-21 05:06 · Score: 5, Funny

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by thend · 2012-03-21 05:40 · Score: 4, Interesting

The entire MetroUI looks like Powerpoint in my opinion. At first I thought it would grow on me. Seems like it's growing like a tumor though and it's completely useless. RDP in Metro isn't my idea of how I want to manage multiple servers. This is a huge step back and like a commenter below said, very much like DOSSHELL.
Who decided "full screen apps" was the way of the future again?? Could we please hop in the Delorean and take care of them??
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-21 05:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Who decided "full screen apps" was the way of the future again??
That would be all the people who rushed like mad to buy iPads.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:55 · Score: 0, Informative

You manage multiple servers through Powershell remoting and MMC snap-ins, not RDP. The default Server install doesn't even have a GUI in Windows 8.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:56 · Score: 3, Interesting

Who decided "full screen apps" was the way of the future again?? Could we please hop in the Delorean and take care of them??
The only way to fight the plague of failed web developers ruining otherwise-functional interfaces is to shun them.
Otherwise, it's back to the derp. Computers are used to analyze data and produce content, and need flexible and customizable UIs with lots of knobs to tweak, and lots of data to give us feedback on what's going on. Tablets and mobile phones are used to consume content and can get by with elegant chromeless UIs. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with either sort of device or either UI, but those of us who know the difference between producing and consuming content know exactly what went wrong.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by RazorSharp · 2012-03-21 06:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

It makes sense for a tablet. I even like the way that Lion does it because it's just like an expanded maximize that's useful in certain situations - gesture controls on the trackpad are integral for the way OS X does it, though, and I don't know if that feature will ever appear on non-Apple computers.
But I think that Microsoft's Windows 8 strategy is a big mistake. For all the reasons the marketing people can come up with to make the tablet and desktop OS the same OS, there's a technical reason why the synergy people are wrong. The differences between the ARM and Intel versions are one example.
Hopefully, for my sake, Apple doesn't go overboard in their blending of iOS and OS X. Fortunately, I like what they did with Lion. I don't really use Mission Control, but I like the way they've done full screen apps (allowing you to jump in and out of full screen mode). It'd make me sad if the next big cat went the way of Metro (which it doesn't look like so far). I find it strange that Microsoft didn't see what happened with Unity and heed the warning.

--
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by IwantToKeepAnon · 2012-03-21 06:52 · Score: 1

This is a huge step back and like a commenter below said, very much like DOSSHELL.
This is a change for Quarterdeck to resurrect DESQview, cool way to stack and tile your new W8 apps. Think of the possibilities!

--
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by hairyfeet · 2012-03-21 07:01 · Score: 5, Interesting

I have shown Metro and even let them play with the thing to over 200 customers now, average folks like Suzy the checkout girl and Brian the backhoe operator and you know what? THEY HATE IT. Not just unfamilar, not just unsure, but HATE IT and want nothing to do with it! Now folks I have had just about every alpha and beta of Windows since Win2K and I have NEVER gotten that kind of response ever, not even with WinME or Vista. With ME they thought it looked nice...until it BSODed of course (stupid mixing of VXD and WDM drivers!) and with Vista they thought it looked "cool"...until they saw how damned slow it was on the then current hardware, but this? they fucking HATE it, they loathe it, they have NO desire to run it, in fact here is the closest i got to a "compliment" for Metro, by a LOL customer named Ms Pipkin: "Why that's a nice looking cell phone picture...is that Android? I hear that's nice...what do you mean Windows? Windows what? Why that is stupid! Why do I want a cell phone on my computer?"
You know they are fucked when the only questions I got about win 8 wasn't any of the ones before like "How does it run?" or "Does the stuff I use run on it?" but instead "But YOU can still get me Windows 7 if I need another one, right? You got some source, right?". Hell I wish I could find the video again from the little Yahoo shill girl, they give her any crap product and she is always "You should buy it! Buy it now! No seriously you should go out and buy it now!" and when they gave her Windows 8 her video was "Uhhhh...maybe you should wait until you get something with touch before you buy Windows 8? Yeah that's what you should do, buy a tablet and THEN buy Windows 8!" which for her is "My eyes! The goggles they do nothing!". I mean that's fricking sad when the girl that got giddy over a universal remote can't even muster enough perky to shill for your product and has this kind of...lost and confused look on her face through the entire video, damn it was funny!

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by ColdWetDog · 2012-03-21 07:18 · Score: 1

I loved the 1980's......
Seriously, DESQview rocked. Supposedly Symantec owns it (but apparently doesn't know that, for Symantec, I'd expect no less).
I'll go back to my shuffleboard now.

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by varargs · 2012-03-21 07:19 · Score: 1

I wondered how many Google searches I needed to do to resolve all of the acronym soup this article contains, and determined that it was too much work. The overpaid government-types must love this shit.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by Zeikzeil · 2012-03-21 07:37 · Score: 1

I agree. I tried the Developer Preview for about 2 hours and didn't like it. I decided to give the Consumer Preview a shot as well. That's when I decided I probably won't be trying the final release. It also made me decide to spend some more time completing my migration to Linux so some good is gonna come of it at least.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by macs4all · 2012-03-21 07:57 · Score: 1

Hell I wish I could find the video again from the little Yahoo shill girl, they give her any crap product and she is always "You should buy it! Buy it now! No seriously you should go out and buy it now!" and when they gave her Windows 8 her video was "Uhhhh...maybe you should wait until you get something with touch before you buy Windows 8? Yeah that's what you should do, buy a tablet and THEN buy Windows 8!" which for her is "My eyes! The goggles they do nothing!". I mean that's fricking sad when the girl that got giddy over a universal remote can't even muster enough perky to shill for your product and has this kind of...lost and confused look on her face through the entire video, damn it was funny!
TRULY ROFL!!! Thanx, Hairyfeet!

As a dyed-in-the-wool Apple enthusiast, I can only say: Go, Metro, Go!!!

If they keep pushing this butt-ugly, real-estate-wasting, six-year-old's version of a UI (might be ok for a tablet; cannot believe they are pushing it for the desktop!), Microsoft will, over time, become seriously marginalized in "Business". OS X is already making serious inroads in that regard, and as soon as someone (anyone?!?) comes up with a reasonable Exchange/Outlook killer, they're toast!

Assuming, of course, that IT stops getting head from the Dell and HP sales guys, and learns that it doesn't HAVE to mean the end of their job to start spec-ing Apple (too bad the XServe died due to that mentality)...

So, how about this compromise, slashdotters? : Linux in the server room, Apple in the front office? That way, we can stop this useless warring, and unite against the tasteless megalith known as Microsoft...

C'mon guys: Whaddya say? IT gets to keep its Computer Priesthood (because NOBODY wants to be bothered learning to set up Linux servers), and the boss and the secretaries get teh shiny!!!

Ok, the Olive Branch has been officially extended: Can we make this the Decade of Lin-X(tm)???
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by toastar · 2012-03-21 08:24 · Score: 0

M$ Technical: I'm telling you we can't put Windows 7 on the tablet. ARM just isn't powerful enough
M$ Marketing: What about bringing windows phone 7 to the PC?
M$ Technical: Well I guess we could, But wh...
M$ Marketing: Excellent we launch in 6 months, better start coding.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-21 08:27 · Score: 2

You do realize that Win8 actually is Win7 put on an ARM tablet - even with the original desktop UI still there?
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2012-03-21 09:33 · Score: 1

Of course it looks like Powerpoint.
These are examples of applications designed by management - for management.

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by hairyfeet · 2012-03-21 11:00 · Score: 1, Informative

Sorry friend but Apple doesn't have a prayer, and here is why: Jobs made it VERY clear years ago he had no desire to sell to the "poor unwashed' and that has carried over to this very day. I just recently sold yet another monster Windows PC, you know how much it cost INCLUDING my profit margin, which wasn't light? $520. That's it, for SIX cores, EIGHT gigs of RAM, 500Gb HDD, DVD Burner and Win 7 HP X64. Now you can't even get a machine half that powerful for $1000 in Apple land and that is how they LIKE it. Now frankly it doesn't matter if YOU think its cheap, the average person in America is making around $37k, don't take my word for it BTW, ask those you are in line with at the grocery store or the bank what they make a year, most will be happy to tell you. When you make $37k or less you simply aren't gonna spend a grand on an underpowered machine and NO the iPad can't replace the desktop for a good 85% of the population and NO the iPhone don't cut it either, as there is always ONE application they consider a "must have" that don't run on Apple, be it Quicken/QB, the app that came with their printer, hell I even have one customer I had to keep a NOS 2GHz PC running for as he slowly converted from Xres to Corel Draw.
Look I'm not saying Apple is bad for this, in fact I'd argue its a damned smart move. look at what happened when Porsche tried to sell a Camaro priced Boxster, it damned near killed the company as it killed the "cool" factor of owning a Porsche. If you could buy an Apple desktop for the same price i can whip off a monster, or even for roughly the same price you can get one at HP or Dell THEN you might have a point. But that will never ever happen friend and you know this.
In the end da Feet can tell you the future, just let me dig out my crystal ball.....OEMs demand Win 7 downgrade rights, MSFT caves to keep them from bolting to Android or buying their own Linux distros, Win 8 fizzles on tablets but nobody cares because Windows 7 is supported until 2020 and moreover "just works" with all their stuff so to Joe consumer nothing has changed. In fact all Win 8 has done is made guys like me more money as consumers get spooked and have me build a monster so they can ride out the Win 8 crapfest without needing a new PC. In fact I've done well enough that after I get done setting up my dad's new router tomorrow I'm buying a new 6 core for the oldest to go with the quad i just built for the youngest. I figured with one on Hexacore and the other on quad I and myself on hexacore we can just ride out Win 8 while still gaming and having a great old time. Don't worry about us MSFT, you keep pushing that cell phone UI, and i'll keep making money off those that don't want it, deal?

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by macs4all · 2012-03-21 11:57 · Score: 0

Sorry friend but Apple doesn't have a prayer, and here is why: Jobs made it VERY clear years ago he had no desire to sell to the "poor unwashed' and that has carried over to this very day. I just recently sold yet another monster Windows PC, you know how much it cost INCLUDING my profit margin, which wasn't light? $520. That's it, for SIX cores, EIGHT gigs of RAM, 500Gb HDD, DVD Burner and Win 7 HP X64. Now you can't even get a machine half that powerful for $1000 in Apple land and that is how they LIKE it. Now frankly it doesn't matter if YOU think its cheap, the average person in America is making around $37k, don't take my word for it BTW, ask those you are in line with at the grocery store or the bank what they make a year, most will be happy to tell you. When you make $37k or less you simply aren't gonna spend a grand on an underpowered machine and NO the iPad can't replace the desktop for a good 85% of the population and NO the iPhone don't cut it either, as there is always ONE application they consider a "must have" that don't run on Apple, be it Quicken/QB, the app that came with their printer, hell I even have one customer I had to keep a NOS 2GHz PC running for as he slowly converted from Xres to Corel Draw.
Look I'm not saying Apple is bad for this, in fact I'd argue its a damned smart move. look at what happened when Porsche tried to sell a Camaro priced Boxster, it damned near killed the company as it killed the "cool" factor of owning a Porsche. If you could buy an Apple desktop for the same price i can whip off a monster, or even for roughly the same price you can get one at HP or Dell THEN you might have a point. But that will never ever happen friend and you know this.
In the end da Feet can tell you the future, just let me dig out my crystal ball.....OEMs demand Win 7 downgrade rights, MSFT caves to keep them from bolting to Android or buying their own Linux distros, Win 8 fizzles on tablets but nobody cares because Windows 7 is supported until 2020 and moreover "just works" with all their stuff so to Joe consumer nothing has changed. In fact all Win 8 has done is made guys like me more money as consumers get spooked and have me build a monster so they can ride out the Win 8 crapfest without needing a new PC. In fact I've done well enough that after I get done setting up my dad's new router tomorrow I'm buying a new 6 core for the oldest to go with the quad i just built for the youngest. I figured with one on Hexacore and the other on quad I and myself on hexacore we can just ride out Win 8 while still gaming and having a great old time. Don't worry about us MSFT, you keep pushing that cell phone UI, and i'll keep making money off those that don't want it, deal?

Sorry friend but Apple doesn't have a prayer, and here is why: Jobs made it VERY clear years ago he had no desire to sell to the "poor unwashed' and that has carried over to this very day. I just recently sold yet another monster Windows PC, you know how much it cost INCLUDING my profit margin, which wasn't light? $520. That's it, for SIX cores, EIGHT gigs of RAM, 500Gb HDD, DVD Burner and Win 7 HP X64. Now you can't even get a machine half that powerful for $1000 in Apple land and that is how they LIKE it. Now frankly it doesn't matter if YOU think its cheap, the average person in America is making around $37k, don't take my word for it BTW, ask those you are in line with at the grocery store or the bank what they make a year, most will be happy to tell you. When you make $37k or less you simply aren't gonna spend a grand on an underpowered machine and NO the iPad can't replace the desktop for a good 85% of the population and NO the iPhone don't cut it either, as there is always ONE application they consider a "must have" that don't run on Apple, be it Quicken/QB, the app that came with their printer, hell I even have one customer I had to keep a NOS 2GHz PC running for as he slowly converted from Xres to Corel Draw.
Look I'm not saying Apple is bad for this, in fact
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 12:16 · Score: 0

The folks in the Windows 7 marketing team have a great new vector for quick adoption of 7 by Corporate USA: Windows 8. It's going to be like grabbing the last box of XP off the shelf soon. Buy 7 soon or be forced to keep XP until Windows 9 (at least!)
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 12:27 · Score: 0

You've got it backwards, they are bringing the x86-focused desktop kernel to mobile ARM devices, even the next version of Windows Phone is going to use the desktop kernel instead of the Windows CE one.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by Grishnakh · 2012-03-21 15:28 · Score: 1

When you're using a smartphone or other small-screen device, full-screen is the only way for an app to be. There isn't enough room to have multiple windows.
Because of this, and because the UI "experts" have all collectively decided that it's "too confusing" to have different different UIs for different devices, they've all decreed that we must all be happy with having all applications run full-screen all the time, no matter how large or small your display is.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 16:33 · Score: 0

No, most of win 7 is stripped out of windows 8 for ARM. They only get the simplified metro shell, and can't use the standard UI, or really anything that uses the traditional win32 API.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-03-21 16:55 · Score: 1

No, most of win 7 is stripped out of windows 8 for ARM. They only get the simplified metro shell, and can't use the standard UI, or really anything that uses the traditional win32 API.
You're wrong. Win8/ARM does include the classic desktop, complete with the standard suite of apps (Explorer, Notepad and the likes), and also full desktop Office. The catch is that you can't run your own binaries there, and there's no SDK provided for desktop ARM apps - so third parties can only run code in Metro.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by tehcyder · 2012-03-21 22:26 · Score: 1

Who decided "full screen apps" was the way of the future again??
Most people where I work already run their "apps" in full screen mode. With relatively small monitors, it makes sense to have as much screen space as possible for Excel or Outlook and just flick between them.

I know everyone on slashdot has a three 24" monitor set up with dozens of programs running in various sized windows, but most people don't use computers like that, especially at work. So I don't see that this new Windows 8 interface will appear that odd to most enterprise users.

--
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by hairyfeet · 2012-03-22 03:38 · Score: 2

Uhhh...business? WTF? No seriously WTF man? Apple has made it VERY clear they don't give a flying shit about business, they killed off their server line and turned FCP into iMovie. There is ZERO in the Apple line that can compete with the total control and ease of use of WinServer + GPOs+AD+Exchange+Sharepoint, NOTHING. Not even close. Hell I could teach my 19 year old in less than 3 weeks how to run 50 units using the above with ZERO effort, the whole thing is turnkey simple. Finally you are forgetting that in business its the APPS which are NOT written for Apple. in a way its the same reason Linux can't get traction, as the business world is filled to the brim with one off apps and billions of dollars in data tied up in funky formats that are hell to get your stuff back out of.
Dude you'd have better odds targeting the consumer market for Apple than you would business as you wouldn't be dealing with all the entrenchment. This is why I predict Win 7 will never quit being sold for businesses, even when Win 8 comes out, because it gives businesses a way to keep all their old apps (XP Mode) while giving them something familiar and safe. remember friend there is NOTHING more conservative than American businesses, so "thinking different" just doesn't come into play. To get the business world to switch they would have to either have Bootcamp installed across the board (thus making it more expensive than Windows) or have VMs set up for everyone (Which with MSFT's VM licensing makes it again more expensive than Windows) with no real gain for the business because their apps aren't apple native and probably never will be. There just isn't really a selling point for Apple in the business market, which is why the Apple server went nowhere.
Like it or not friend there simply isn't a compelling business reason to run apple products, you are bringing all the incompatibility of Unix with higher costs than Windows and no real benefits because the integration products simply aren't there. like it or not MSFT isn't going anywhere in the business world, in fact I'd argue they are the new IBM and will be locked into the wintel x86 market just as Apple is the hot consumer brand.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by mcswell · 2012-03-24 15:21 · Score: 1

> Who decided "full screen apps" was the way of the future again??
> Could we please hop in the Delorean and take care of them??
back to the time of Windows 2, right?
Re:Looks a bit like Powerpoint. by slapout · 2012-03-29 02:20 · Score: 1

I played with the Consumer Preview the other day. Me and my boss couldn't figure out how to shut it down and ended up just pressing the power button.

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Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad

Embrace Metro by WrongSizeGlass · 2012-03-21 05:07 · Score: -1

Eventually we'll need to embrace Metro because it's not going away. On the plus side it is going to create a cottage industry of consultants who help businesses make the change over.

Re:Embrace Metro by h4rr4r · 2012-03-21 05:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

Or embrace this as an good time to invest that consultant money in switching to another platform.
Re:Embrace Metro by Tridus · 2012-03-21 05:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

If enough companies ignore it and continue putting out normal applications instead, Microsoft will have to deal with that. Metro isn't the sun, it's not inevitable if the market outright rejects it.

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-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Re:Embrace Metro by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:22 · Score: 1

I'm sorry, but unless you're contracted into a forced upgrade, I don't see why anyone should embrace Metro. If people don't break down and accept dealing with Metro, then it's going to have to go away. Maybe not in this version, but in the next. They can blindly persist, but ultimately they're going to need to concede if people just simply refuse to adopt it.
Re:Embrace Metro by jo42 · 2012-03-21 05:31 · Score: 0

Metrosexual apps in the Enterprise - who would of thought just a few years ago...
Re:Embrace Metro by gregarican · 2012-03-21 05:37 · Score: 2

My smart money says is will reside in the land of Microsoft Bob and Clippy...
Re:Embrace Metro by Kamiza+Ikioi · 2012-03-21 05:51 · Score: 2

Not really. Apple didn't have to deal with PowerPC applications. They told the market to deal with it. Could Microsoft do this? Yes. Should they? Yes. Not saying I like Metro, I don't. But at some point, the get-off-my-lawn folks need to get over themselves, it's not 1995 anymore and a weak Microsoft stuck supporting multiple UIs isn't good for business.

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I8-D
Re:Embrace Metro by 0123456 · 2012-03-21 05:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

Not really. Apple didn't have to deal with PowerPC applications. They told the market to deal with it. Could Microsoft do this? Yes. Should they? Yes.
Why would anyone choose to run Windows if it didn't run their Windows apps?
Windows lives and dies on backward compatibility. Metrosexual is the best thing they've done in years... for people selling other operating systems.
Re:Embrace Metro by lightknight · 2012-03-21 06:07 · Score: 1

Apple didn't have the entrenched user base that MS, nor did it have the requirement to maintain backwards compatibility across several versions or the OS wouldn't sell.

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I am John Hurt.
Re:Embrace Metro by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:35 · Score: 0

That would be a great idea, if only for the fact that the vast maturity of people stick with Windows due to legacy applications. Remove that and most have no reason to stay. Apple will be having a field day over Microsoft shooting itself in the foot by alienating its core users.
Re:Embrace Metro by koolfy · 2012-03-21 06:42 · Score: 1

How sad is it that Evolution's theory for softwares is so broken that we resort to say things like :

See this little weak, asthmatic, deformed, useless and defenseless animal nobody likes ? Well too bad it really sucks, 'cause it isn't going away, so his kind will rule us for another 10 generations at least. What are we gonna do about it ? *sigh*
Seriously, survival of the fittest, it works. Bring it back.
I don't care about monopolies, just use what you like and let those things that improve nothing for anybody die already.

It's not that hard.
Posted from Sabayon Linux with i3, windows manager's master race.

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Segmentation Fault in "Life, Universe and Everything" at line 42. Don't Panic.
Re:Embrace Metro by Anomalyst · 2012-03-21 06:48 · Score: 1

it's not inevitable if the market outright rejects it.
Does that make Metro outevitable?

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There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Re:Embrace Metro by pablo_max · 2012-03-21 07:04 · Score: 0

Who is selling other OSs? Apple will only sell you an OS with a 2k hardware dongle. Linux is free.
Re:Embrace Metro by macs4all · 2012-03-21 08:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

Not really. Apple didn't have to deal with PowerPC applications. They told the market to deal with it. Could Microsoft do this? Yes. Should they? Yes. Not saying I like Metro, I don't. But at some point, the get-off-my-lawn folks need to get over themselves, it's not 1995 anymore and a weak Microsoft stuck supporting multiple UIs isn't good for business.
Actually, Apple provided several tools to ease that transition (hell, it HAD to!)

Fantastic JIT Compiling built into the OS, that worked SO well that Apple themselves left parts of the Finder and other OS pieces-parts as 68k code for several OS revisions.

"Fat Binaries", which like the later "Universal Binaries", allowed developers to package both 68k and PPC code in the same application bundle, with the OS seamlessly choosing the correct version to use.
Re:Embrace Metro by macs4all · 2012-03-21 08:06 · Score: 1

Who is selling other OSs? Apple will only sell you an OS with a 2k hardware dongle. Linux is free.
...Only if your time is...

Sorry, old habits die hard. As I replied to Hairyfeet, it's high time for a truce...
Re:Embrace Metro by macs4all · 2012-03-21 09:35 · Score: 3

Who is selling other OSs? Apple will only sell you an OS with a 2k hardware dongle. Linux is free.
Um, Macs start at $600.

And anyone who thinks a Mac mini with a dual-core 2.3GHz i5 isn't powerful enough for the secretary, sales, accounting, doctor's office, boss' office, production manager's office, factory-floor, web-designer, code developer (not everyone compiles OSes or gigantic games), et frickin' cetera, and even some light "server" applications is simply delusional.

Period.
Re:Embrace Metro by jd2112 · 2012-03-21 10:00 · Score: 3, Funny

My smart money says is will reside in the land of Microsoft Bob and Clippy...
What did Bob and Clippy do to deserve Metro?

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Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Re:Embrace Metro by Grishnakh · 2012-03-21 15:34 · Score: 2

Microsoft tried this with Vista, and it flopped. The reasons were totally different of course (personally, I had no problem with the UI style on Vista, and think it was better than 7), but WindowsMe and Vista prove that MS doesn't always get its way. If the users don't like it, they simply don't upgrade. Customers don't care about what's "good for business", they want products that work well for them. They're already ignoring MS on phones and switching to Apple and Google en masse, so they might just be ready to switch away from MS on the desktop soon too.
Re:Embrace Metro by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 18:33 · Score: 0

and Kin and PlaysForSure and Zune and Hailstorm and Windows ME and Windows Mobile and...
Re:Embrace Metro by tehcyder · 2012-03-21 22:58 · Score: 1

So how much accounting, sales order processing, customer relations management, HR, payroll,stock control and other business related software is available on a Mac? Or Linux?

That's the advantage Microsoft have, it's not just Office. So the day they break backwards compatibility, they're finished.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:Embrace Metro by macs4all · 2012-03-24 22:51 · Score: 1

So how much accounting, sales order processing, customer relations management, HR, payroll,stock control and other business related software is available on a Mac? Or Linux?
Glad you asked!

My personal favorite in the ERP world is xTuple (formerly Open Mfg). They even have a free QuickBooks-Like version. Speaking as an ERP software dev. myself, this package is strong enough that I have seriously considered becoming a VAR for it.

Then, there are the longstanding AccountEdge/MYOB, and AppGen/Custom Suite (AppGen Custom Suite is pretty cool, IMHO). I also see FlexWare Accounting, which has a Manufacturing add-on. Don't know much about FlexWare; but it looks pretty complete.

Then there are the interesting database/app-generation systems, such as Omnis (which had the whole idea of "web apps" NAILED more than a decade ago), and, last but certainly not least, 4D, also sporting a wonderful web-app solution. Both are big database-oriented Application-Creation packages that have marched along for years, never quite getting traction, but never quite falling over, either! In fact, 4D's web server was eventually spun-off into its own product (name escapes me, sorry!), and has the enviable reputation of not only being faster that snot, but also has never been hacked... Both Omnis and 4D embraced the concept of being able to "publish" applications directly on the web, such that the apps retained all, or nearly all, of the look-and-feel of the "desktop" versions. Quite cool, actually.

And the hidden advantage is that pretty much all, if not all, of the Mac business software is actually cross-platform; so you get platform-independence "for free". What's not to like about that?!?

As far as CAD/CAE tools go, there are several choices. My personal favorite is VectorWorks, which whips all-over AutoCAD (but maybe not so much on Inventor). I have a longstanding Mac consulting client, who has to live in a world of architects who use AutoCAD, and he has zero problems using VectorWorks with their files, import or export. The only "problem" is that VectorWorks actually supports many things that AutoCAD does not; so he has to be somewhat careful not to use features that AutoCAD (by all rights, should, but) does not support. In fact, when AutoCAD became available (again) for Macs, he wasn't the slightest bit interested in switching away from VectorWorks. And although not widely known in this country, the extremely high-end CAD/CAM/CAE system Siemens PLM NX/UG (Unigraphics) has been available on OS X since at least 2009, and is also available on Linux.

And let's not forget Qt. It's a royal pain to develop in; but you can certainly churn out some pretty complex cross-platform apps in the environment. Eagle PCB is a good example of how advanced a Qt-based app can get... As a (now former, I guess) embedded developer, I used to lament the lack of good (or really, ANY) development tools for Macs. But even that has been (slowly) changing. Microchip now supports both Macs and Linux with MPLab X (helped along considerably by the acquisition of Hi-Tech, and their cross-platform C Compilers). And BTW, Microchip even addresses the question of "Why not just

I like this by Gobelet · 2012-03-21 05:10 · Score: 2

This actually looks nice for a prototype! The data is well laid out. This is probably the first app that convinced me that Metro might work out in the end.

Re:I like this by h4rr4r · 2012-03-21 05:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

Too much wasted real estate. Why all the pictures of people?
This is one of those things the MBAs will love to waste everyone's time with, and other than look shiny offer nothing.
Re:I like this by Gobelet · 2012-03-21 05:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

Seeing how the target demographic of that package is mostly MBAs, I think it works out pretty well.
Re:I like this by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:16 · Score: 0

If you could take that pretty layout, and put it in a window, or even just switch to it from the taskbar, I'd be thrilled. But you can't. So I'm not thrilled. Even though I have multiple monitors, I can't have 2 Metro apps open fully, one on each monitor, so I can't see this report and write an email, or browse the web with a metro browser or metro email client or use a metro skype client in more than 1/6th of the screen at the same time. It's stupid. On a desktop computer, I do not restrict myself to doing one thing at a time, or being able to see one thing at a time. That was the point of windowing GUIs. If I wanted to run multiple full screen apps, I'd use DOSSHELL.
Re:I like this by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:36 · Score: 0

If it means that this replaces PowerPoint charts, and that I dont have to create anything but update a form somewhere... then i'm sold...
Re:I like this by 0123456 · 2012-03-21 05:46 · Score: 2

Even though I have multiple monitors, I can't have 2 Metro apps open fully, one on each monitor, so I can't see this report and write an email, or browse the web with a metro browser or metro email client or use a metro skype client in more than 1/6th of the screen at the same time. It's stupid.
But... but... but... you can switch between the applications with only six mouse clicks and two minutes of fancy 3D animations.
Re:I like this by rioki · 2012-03-21 22:15 · Score: 1

That is the big thing that will kill W8 on the desktop.Metro is really a nice idea on a small screen and with touch controls. But I have a 24 inch screen and screens are getting bigger and bigger... It looks like a big joke, as if I am visually impaired. If Ms would have handled Metro like Media Center, an overlay over the normal desktop, it would have been a nice thing. My desktop and (x86) Tablet are running the same OS, I can run the same programs if I want and on the tablet I have a handy presentation optimized for touch. With all their ideas of interconnecting the devices, not such a bad idea. But the way W8 is built now, that thing will not go on my desktop, end of story... Btw. The tablet I want to buy runs W7...
Re:I like this by tehcyder · 2012-03-21 23:07 · Score: 1

That is the big thing that will kill W8 on the desktop.Metro is really a nice idea on a small screen and with touch controls. But I have a 24 inch screen and screens are getting bigger and bigger..
1. A lot of people at work are stuck with 17" monitors.
2. A lot of people use laptops with screens of 15" or less.
3. A lot of people don't like big computer screens in their living room.
4. The people with one or more 24" or more monitors are the minority.

--
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it

hp Dashboard by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:14 · Score: 1

First thing I thought of was "huh, they re-implemented hp Dashboad for Unix from the 90's".

Metro UIr (beta)! by ebunga · 2012-03-21 05:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

So it turns your zillion dollar ERP system into a Web 2.0-style interactive infographic that makes USA Today look information-dense?

Re:Metro UIr (beta)! by glassware · 2012-03-21 05:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

Yep. Demos sure look clean if you remove A) all the necessary controls that allow you to do useful work, and B) the context that helps the human eye figure out how data point relates to the overall picture.
This is much more a "dashboard demo" than an "application demo". But dashboards are hot right now; everyone wants one. Certainly no harm in offering appealing dashboards except that they obscure how much work is required in order to make a dashboard show something useful in a relevant context.
Re:Metro UIr (beta)! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:35 · Score: 0

Add a Kinect for Windows and you have the Minority Report UI.
Re:Metro UIr (beta)! by h4rr4r · 2012-03-21 05:48 · Score: 1

That and the fact that about 90% of the time the only thing the dashboard does is mean that those few metrics that are easy to put in the dashboard are improved at the cost of those that do not show up very well in a dashboard. Its easy to measure stuff, it is hard to measure the right stuff.
Re:Metro UIr (beta)! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:19 · Score: 0

Or a fullscreen Flash application.
Re:Metro UIr (beta)! by jd2112 · 2012-03-21 10:05 · Score: 1

So it turns your zillion dollar ERP system into a Web 2.0-style interactive infographic that makes USA Today look information-dense?
perfect for the CEO, useless for anyone below a VP.

--
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

Thanks but no thanks... by mybeat · 2012-03-21 05:15 · Score: 1

I remember when Vista with new Outlook interface (ribbon?) was pushed down in the previous company I worked in, and for a common worker those changes weren't so pleasant to say the least. One guy bugged local IT department for two weeks regarding missing stuff. Wonder what will happen if he's forced to use metro...

Re:Thanks but no thanks... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:00 · Score: 0

Especially since, with Metro, there is actually stuff missing...

Re: Metro Going Away by TaoPhoenix · 2012-03-21 05:23 · Score: 4, Funny

It might. PlaysForSure went away, Zune went away, various of those Live services went away. I even have the marketing slogan!

"Ride the Metro to see the Vistas out the Windows with Me!"

They can fix all their branding in one sentence!

Uh oh, I think I just found a new sig for a week.

--
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine

Just what we need by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:24 · Score: 1

More charts & graphs for the MBAs to dick around with all day so they can micro-manage everyone who's actually useful.

In related news: by Mojo66 · 2012-03-21 05:25 · Score: 0, Troll

Windows 8 tablet freezes in Microsoft keynote demo

Re:In related news: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 05:35 · Score: -1

What's your point there, kiddo?

Frozen Cosmopolitan by fermion · 2012-03-21 05:34 · Score: 2

So was this the one where Metro froze to the point they had to use the extra tablet. I know this is just beta, but entering data is not an experimental feature. It is not like were playing Angry Birds. I hope that these things are cheap enough so firms can purchase a Redundant Array of Tablet Devices. Can't imagine what will happen when one freezes at a sales meeting, though.

--
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black

Re:Frozen Cosmopolitan by Anomalyst · 2012-03-21 06:54 · Score: 1

Can't imagine what will happen when one freezes at a sales meeting, though.
Derisive laughter. Couldn't happen to a better bunch of people.

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There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.

Sound of Jaws Music... by macs4all · 2012-03-21 05:43 · Score: 3, Interesting

I am a developer working for an ISV selling third-party enhancements to MS Dynamics NAV (formerly called Navision). My bosses are at Convergence right now.

I certainly hope that MS doesn't roll this shite out to the rest of the "Dynamics" family. They have already hamstrung layout and created ridiculous UI faux-pas-es enough with their "Role Tailored Client" (tell me WHO else makes the default for deleting records be "YES"?!?!?).

This is just hideous. And I fear it is a-comin', like the shark in Jaws....

Re:Sound of Jaws Music... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:38 · Score: 0

You're developing in Navision? You have my sympathies.
Re:Sound of Jaws Music... by Anomalyst · 2012-03-21 06:57 · Score: 1

So our solution is a SCUBA tank and a Highpowered rifle?
But how do get monkeyboy to open wide?

--
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Re:Sound of Jaws Music... by macs4all · 2012-03-21 08:14 · Score: 1

You're developing in Navision? You have my sympathies.
I actually enjoy writing C/AL code. It's bog simple, and pretty fast.

I have developed some pretty out-of-the-box stuff in NAV. I just wish that MS would quit deprecating feature after feature, and doing their usual dance of "technology du jour" madness. But that's "our" Microsoft!

We won't discuss the hell-hole that is their new, Visual Studio-Based Report Writer, though...
Re:Sound of Jaws Music... by macs4all · 2012-03-21 08:17 · Score: 1

So our solution is a SCUBA tank and a Highpowered rifle? But how do get monkeyboy to open wide?
LOL! I'll hold him down...
Re:Sound of Jaws Music... by jd2112 · 2012-03-21 10:08 · Score: 1

So our solution is a SCUBA tank and a Highpowered rifle? But how do get monkeyboy to open wide?
Balmer isn't a shark, he's the world's biggest Apple fanboi.

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Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

My God, it's full of bars! by scorp1us · 2012-03-21 06:06 · Score: 2

As someone who dabbles in UI design, I've seen us go from orthogonal by necessity, to round by revolt, and now we're back to orthogonal again. How much of this is a passing fad. Never mind that the damn tiles UI is more about wasting space than putting display space to good use. I predict the DPIs will go higher the panels bigger, just to accommodate this lousy aesthetic.

Microsoft shouldn't be in the position to push aesthetics anymore. At one point they needed to push usability, but this goes far beyond that, resulting in something less usable. I rather like the special effects for movies, which I find are logical and innovative. At most Mocrosoft should support some skinning interface the way Qt apps do so that the USER or VENDOR gets to force their design on something. Given that MS still has lousy fixed-geometry windows all over in Windows 7, I vote no confidence in MS to deliver anything really usable.

Windows Phone will fail (sorry Nokia) and Win 8 will fail. It's not your call anymore Microsoft. And what you are pushing is too different. Remember the XP backlash of GREEN start button and RED [X]? That at least could be argued as usability enhancements. Now Metro goes the other way and decreases usability.

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Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.

Re:My God, it's full of bars! by DigiShaman · 2012-03-21 06:32 · Score: 1

Metro feels like it was designed for 5yr olds. Maybe the next tablet will come in 3D offering a pop-up book style interface. *facepalm*
Idiocracy indeed.

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Life is not for the lazy.
Re:My God, it's full of bars! by bkaul01 · 2012-03-21 06:51 · Score: 2

I think a key thing they're focusing on that you might not be is optimizing the UI for touch, rather than keyboard/mouse user inputs. On traditional desktop/laptop form factors, I would agree that Win8 would not be compelling, and Win7 is probably preferable. On a touch-capable device, though, the pendulum swings the other direction.
I think Win8/WP8 (or their successors, at least, possibly Win8.5/WP8.5) stand a real chance of succeeding. The Metro UI is stark and the aesthetic isn't immediately appealing to many. But having switched to a WP7/7.5 device, I have to say that for actual usability it beats the socks off iOS and Android's UIs. That's not, of course, a guarantee of market success, as they still have a very real problem of getting people to even be willing to give it a try. But Microsoft appears to be in this for the long haul, and the Win8/WP8 tie-ins could give them significant inroads. They're taking a risk, of course, but I wouldn't bet against them in the long run. They have a history of getting past version x.0 flops, making corrections, and having version x.5 successes. (Even as a very recent example look at Vista vs. Windows 7 - the former was a market flop, but the latter is garnering record sales.) Win8 might flop, but I wouldn't bet against its successor, once they've refined it a bit more.
Re:My God, it's full of bars! by Dcnjoe60 · 2012-03-21 07:11 · Score: 2

I think a key thing they're focusing on that you might not be is optimizing the UI for touch, rather than keyboard/mouse user inputs. On traditional desktop/laptop form factors, I would agree that Win8 would not be compelling, and Win7 is probably preferable. On a touch-capable device, though, the pendulum swings the other direction.
Yes, because we all know that using a touch interface for an accounting/data entry application makes so much sense. Bookkeepers, payroll, receivable and payables clerks do regular data entry. Is Microsoft really saying that moving hands from a keyboard to the screen and back again is the most efficient way to do that? This is an accounting application for mid to large businesses. Tablet and touch interfaces are fine for consumers of data, but by it's very nature, this is a producer of data.
Re:My God, it's full of bars! by macs4all · 2012-03-21 08:20 · Score: 1

Metro feels like it was designed by 5yr olds.

FTFY.
Re:My God, it's full of bars! by bkaul01 · 2012-03-21 08:26 · Score: 2

Yes, because we all know that using a touch interface for an accounting/data entry application makes so much sense. Bookkeepers, payroll, receivable and payables clerks do regular data entry. Is Microsoft really saying that moving hands from a keyboard to the screen and back again is the most efficient way to do that? This is an accounting application for mid to large businesses. Tablet and touch interfaces are fine for consumers of data, but by it's very nature, this is a producer of data.
No, but the desktop UI is still present (except on WOA tablet/mobile devices); the only major change when you're using desktop productivity software (e.g. x86/64 Office instead of WOA "Metro" Office) is that the start menu is full-screen when you hit the Windows key, instead of filling only a portion of it. The desktop UI is still keyboard/mouse focused (though touch-enabled just as Win7); Metro UI is touch-centric.
I imagine touchscreen laptops will become a bit more commonplace once Win8 hits the market though, and some of those clerks may take their hands to the screen and back rather than to the mouse and back to navigate amongst different applications, etc. That is, they may use the touchscreen to launch Excel, but they're sure to use the keyboard to do data entry. Whether the touchscreen or mouse is their preferred pointing device will probably come down to the individual user's preference.
Re:My God, it's full of bars! by bkaul01 · 2012-03-21 08:28 · Score: 1

(Also, I actually do sometimes use Excel on my Windows Phone to enter values of measurements into a pre-existing spreadsheet I've got sitting on SkyDrive when out in the lab, instead of lugging the laptop out there. I then do whatever analysis I want to on the laptop, with the bigger screen and keyboard/mouse UI)
Re:My God, it's full of bars! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 09:24 · Score: 0

My guess when looking at the demo slides: This Metro interface is not for lowly office workers punching in the data. It's rather for the "decision makers" and managers to get the data they think they need. The slides they've shown lean heavily towards data presentation with little in the way of control. There are no real data entry forms visible anywhere.

How will it sell in real world? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 06:14 · Score: 0

How flaky will the interface be with software from previous windows version? This is what the people who think about deploying it in enterprise will worry about. I am sure that Redmond will make some kind of consideration for Windows 7 and earlier 2008 NT-XP enterprise and enterprise server apps. But will application and driver api compatibility issues like the ones that plagued Vista, cause enterprise users to run for cover again. If a completely new and expensive server version of Office apps must now be used then look out it will kill the enterprise launch completely. As the enterprise consumer will choke on the costs without a doubt. The economy cannot handle another forced 10-20 billion dollar Microsoft bailout like the move from XP and Server 2003 was.

If again the user is expected to go out and update all their enterprise apps to ones that will actually work with 8 then it will bomb and being an Microsoft executive who decided to force another full update on the business world will make the share holders finally revolt in droves. The job security of King Steve might finally start to come into question as the shareholders meeting might begin to resemble England's house of commons under Cromwell! And we all know what happened to that king.

Re:How will it sell in real world? by MikeyC01 · 2012-03-21 06:38 · Score: 1

It's not flaky in the least with legacy apps. Legacy apps run on a non-Aero looking "desktop". You can pin stuff to the desktop taskbar. There's a "desktop" to drop icons and folders on. It looks just like the Windows 7 desktop minus the Start button (and with hot corners for the "new Start Menu" and the whole right-side of the screen bring up some Metro-esque context stuff). The icons that would go on the Start Menu end up on the Metro Desktop.
The biggest problem I see is with applications that create too many icons in the Start Menu
I run all kinds of non-metro apps and haven't had an issue with any of them.

Where is the "do not want" tag? by Anomalyst · 2012-03-21 06:46 · Score: 1

Surely its perfectly cromulent fo tag this article as such.

--
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.

Will Metro be Microsoft's Waterloo? by Dcnjoe60 · 2012-03-21 07:07 · Score: 1

Or maybe it will just be their Gnome 3.

With each new Windows release... by Higgins_Boson · 2012-03-21 07:11 · Score: 0

...Microsoft comes closer to death on the desktop.

Long live Linux, but not that craptacular piece of shit called "OS X"!

Re:With each new Windows release... by macs4all · 2012-03-21 08:40 · Score: 1

...Microsoft comes closer to death on the desktop.

Long live Linux, but not that craptacular piece of shit called "OS X"!
Gotta ask (since the customer-satisfacton numbers year-after-year would belie your "craptacular" label):

WTF, over?
Re:With each new Windows release... by Higgins_Boson · 2012-03-22 09:02 · Score: 1

Gotta ask (since the customer-satisfacton numbers year-after-year would belie your "craptacular" label): WTF, over?
I am not into companies which continually mislead their customers into thinking that they are 100% immune to trojans and viruses. It's shady at best and simply downright despicable at worst. Top that off with their outsourcing of nearly everything when it comes to manufacturing, and you have a terrible company hoarding all of its cash because of taxes (remember, Obama wants companies like Apple to pay WAY more than they currently do) while claiming to be different at the same time.

I don't care how many times my post gets modded down, Apple is a sham. Those machines are for people who don't mind being told what they can do with THEIR machines.

Re: Metro Going Away by bishopBelloc · 2012-03-21 07:17 · Score: 1

For some reason, when you put "Windows" and "Me" so close together it made me really nervous.

A fear Metro will live as long as tablets... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:20 · Score: 0

As a developer and geek I totally agree with a lot of the comments here decrying this from a too-much-fluff, non-standard UI, and I dread-the-day-I-have-to-code-for-this perspective. It is very much my not my style.

OTOH, as a consultant and business person, I know that the percentage of my user base who will be completely and utterly enchanted by this UI will be well over 50%, with the level of enchantment being directly proportionally to the pay grade of the user (and, therefore, inversely proportional to the amount of time they actually spend using the ERP / CRM software).

Once again I am faced with the engineer's dilemma;
Do I try and fight it on principal - the way I refuse to play games on tablets because they're goofy toys and real games run on PCs? ...or do I simply accept that the tastes of a society often choose sex appeal over efficiency, and go along with the whole thing, feigning enthusiasm for something I abhor simply to ensure myself a steady stream of development work for the next six years...

All report screens? by DarkOx · 2012-03-21 07:29 · Score: 1

I find it telling that the only screen shots they include in the article are ones of report screens. I don't see any data entry, you know the 99% of work people do in an ERP system. My guess is the interface for that is pretty much the same forms app look Dynamics has always had and or its awful to work with and they hope they can just distract procurement people with shiny until the check is signed.

--
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

"Enterprise"? Does Win8 actually support domains? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 07:44 · Score: 0

Or is it just as crippled at WP7? Does domain support work with Intel chips only, or do the ARM tablets support it as well? Microsoft has fallen flat on their face with WP7, and I dont see Win8 being the savior of "Metro" or Windows Phone either. I predict many, many users will either stick with Win7 or shift to either OSX (shudder) or Linux.

The only variable I see is WHEN the shareholders revolt and toss Ballemer into the unemployment line! It only took them weeks to figure out the Kin was a failure, but for some odd reason, they think that if they just wait, WP7 and Metro will gain traction with users....strange.

Enterprise apps? by chinton · 2012-03-21 07:57 · Score: 1

You mean like LCARS?

Flushing 25 years of UI research down the toilet by BenJeremy · 2012-03-21 08:17 · Score: 2

I thought I'd give Metro a try, and while this UI makes sense for a tablet, it's complete CRAP for a keyboard and mouse (let alone trackball). Gestures have never worked for the desktop, and a UI that offers ZERO visual cues tot he user is beyond useless.

I'm baffled that Microsoft has essentially tossed decades of research into the trash in favor of a Tablet-centric UI. There is a reason why we have desktops and tablets... they are considerably different in form and function. Unifying the interface is an incredibly stupid move.

Mark my words, Windows 8 will be shunned worse than Vista on the desktop.

Sadly, Microsoft will probably consider it a success when it sells millions in the tablet and phone market.

How do you do Order Entry by smist08 · 2012-03-21 08:24 · Score: 1

Nice looking useless display forms. The real question is how the heck do you do full Order Entry with all the millions of controls and options? For that matter how do I run these on my iPad or iPhone?

Only way is up by davidbrit2 · 2012-03-21 08:25 · Score: 1

This is Dynamics GP we're talking about. The UI is so horrendous that pretty much anything would be an improvement. Even giving it the Hot Dog Stand theme.

(I hope they fired the idiot that decided to change the MDI application to SDI without making a single change to the interface, so you have to constantly deal with your data entry windows falling behind the main window.)

Re:Only way is up by smurfsurf · 2012-03-21 09:45 · Score: 1

Funny, they thankfully switched from SDI to MDI for Dynamics AX only two years ago.

Here's an idea for MS by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 08:57 · Score: 0

If the devs change their own tools to use the Metro UI, maybe management in Redmond will understand how braindead the Metro UI is as it gets more and more impossible for the devs to actually do anything except show off fancy graphs and bullet points in meetings? OR.... maybe that's what they've done already and that's why they're churning out this UTTER CRAP and half expecting people to actually pay for it.

That's right folks, now "Windows" will either be a bunch of dimwit-sized square buttons that look like something from Fisher-Price, or "Core" which is nothing but the return of the CLI minus copy/paste, drag/drop or any of the other innovations brought to us by the nice folks over at Apple since the late 80s. It's really a joke but people aren't laughing because they know the executives will buy it and demand you use it.

I like it; you all need to relax. by T-Mckenney · 2012-03-21 09:32 · Score: 1

I'm not one to give Microsoft a break, but I do give credit where credit is due. Im glad they are taking an initiative in moving away from the Frankenstein WIMP model that has plaqued even the best of programs out there. The first release of metro May be a little rough, but what do you expect? People bitch when Microsoft copies (when everyone else does it just as much) but when Microsoft actually tries to spearhead something new, people still bitch. It's not even the end of Q1 2012, and they are expecting to be launching by Q4 2012, so give the boys in Redmond a break, they are actually trying something new. When the finished product shows up, then you can bitch.

Re:I like it; you all need to relax. by fwarren · 2012-03-21 10:31 · Score: 2

Metro is not a better metaphor for someone using a mouse and keyboard with multiple 23 inch monitors.
Saying give them a break because it may be a little rough on their first try is like saying give the doctor a break the first time he tries curing cancer by shooting the patient. There is no use in trying to improve the wrong approach. It will still remain a FAIL.
To launch by October, they will have to RTM (Release to Manufacturing) sometime in July. That gives them 4 months to fix it. Please note we are currently running the only Beta version that Microsoft is making. There are things they will try to change, that they may still get wrong because they have not been beta tested. At this point you can pretty much be looking for the changes that will be made in the first Service Pack.
I think this is all about getting everyone to an interface that looks like an iPhone and selling all software through the "Microsoft Store" where they get a small slice of every transaction. That means Metro stays up front and the "trying to get work done with a mouse and keyboard on my desktop" stuff remains a second class citizen. I predict a lot of people will still be running Windows 7 in 2015.

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vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
Re:I like it; you all need to relax. by Latinhypercube · 2012-03-21 10:33 · Score: 1

I like it too ! Much cooler than iOS. Make it work with Kinetic !!!

Re:Flushing 25 years of UI research down the toile by fwarren · 2012-03-21 10:20 · Score: 2

Why would I want this on a tablet?

Remember there will be two types of Win 8 Metro tablets: ARM and Intel

The ARM tablet will have metro apps, a web browser and Office. No compatibility with almost 30 years of DOS/Windows software and from the looks of it, will not be able to join a domain. That is the low end tablet market. Where it will have to compete with $200 Kindle Fires and Color Nooks. It does not offer any real advantages there once you figure out it SUCKS trying to use Office on touchpad

The INTEL tablet will keep the Metro interface but add app compatibility and the ability to join a domain. However, at this point, you are now in the price range of an iPad. Again, once people figure out doing any real work on one of this things is "suboptimal" there is not much reason to not for an iPad which has 3 years of maturity and a 100,000 app head start.

The whole thing is baffling. The are betting the whole farm on getting people to switch to a version of Windows where they will purchase everything though an app store where Microsoft will make something off of every purchase.

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vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.

Lets do it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-21 11:39 · Score: 0

So what would it take then? What server software and mac software "interfaces" are needed to do this that don't exist in some way now?

Is it really just Exchange/Outlook?

Re:Lets do it by macs4all · 2012-03-21 12:11 · Score: 1

So what would it take then? What server software and mac software "interfaces" are needed to do this that don't exist in some way now?
Is it really just Exchange/Outlook?
For the most part, MS is down to Office and Exchange/Outlook, for their stranglehold on business (oh and don't forget the collusive IT handmaidens).

Even if you maintained a couple of intense Server Boxes running Windows VMs that ran Terminal Services for the business apps (like MS Dynamics GP, NAV, and AX), I still submit that the "employee-facing" machines would be MUCH better served (no pun) as Macs.

Or, you could look into something cross-platform, like the Open Source xTuple (which runs on OS X, Linux and Windows) for your ERP, you could dispense with Windows for that, too. That leaves Exchange/Outlook. Does anyone know where the Kerio Exhange replacement sits at this point?

don't forget your Extended Memory board by decora · 2012-03-21 12:15 · Score: 1

Think of all extra kilobytes!

if they stop virus updates to XP / HIPPA by decora · 2012-03-21 12:19 · Score: 1

then companies will switch. it simply won't matter. companies with HIPPA requirements will have to have updated anti-virus stuff. when that stops on XP, the companies will be forced to upgrade by law.

apple did not invent drag/copy/paste by decora · 2012-03-21 12:23 · Score: 1

they did not invent the ipod, they did not invent buying music online, they did not invent video phones, they did not invent the mouse, they did not invent the internet, nor the web, they did not invent ethernet, they did not invent LCD, they did not invent smartphones, they did not invent Siri, they did not invent liquid polymer batteries, they did not invent outsourcing to dictatorships

are you glad they will ban people writing software by decora · 2012-03-21 12:25 · Score: 1

for their system? because that is what they are moving towards - a system where you can only install software purchased from the Windows Store or wahtever they will call it. thats what Metro is moving to.

Re:"Enterprise"? Does Win8 actually support domain by RightSaidFred99 · 2012-03-21 18:39 · Score: 1

Uhh, huh? Of course it supports domains. I don't even understand why you'd ask, and yes on ARM too.

I think Microsoft is on the right track - one OS to rule them all. Same experience on your phone, your tablet, and your desktop. I'm old school so I'll use the Aero style interface, but for most it will be very natural.

Re:Flushing 25 years of UI research down the toile by RightSaidFred99 · 2012-03-21 18:44 · Score: 1

They're betting the farm on the fact that the only device 70% of users might need in 1 year is their phone. Seriously, think about that.

They want a compute continuum. You can just use your phone and plug a keyboard, mouse, monitor into it and it's a pretty fast Atom chip with SSD storage, 2 gigs of ram, and whatever monitor you want. Then you unplug it and it's a phone, same computer though. Maybe they sell a "laptop" with nothing but a keyboard and monitor and you slide the phone into it - instant portable laptop. Dumb Touchscreen device you connect wirelessly to your phone - instant tablet.

All on the same fucking device. That's god damn hot, I don't care what you say. Some people will need a full blown computer, but a lot of people just need web browsing, videos, and a few x86 apps here and there. You can easily do that on a ca. 2013 Atom phone with 2G of memory.

Re: Metro Going Away by thoth · 2012-03-22 01:11 · Score: 1

A little over 12 years ago, just before Windows 2000 became available, Microsoft had a few OSes out: Win CE (gotta put that space in because it wasn't "WinCE" as in "the grimace you get just using it"), Win ME, and Windows NT.

I saw a professionally made poster combing those names: CE, ME, NT... it read something like "Microsoft introduces Windows CEMENT... hard as a rock, dumb as a brick". It was hilarious and well done.

Anyway, seeing your combo slogan reminded of that older bit of humor.

Re: Metro Going Away by slapout · 2012-03-22 05:53 · Score: 1

The first step though, before it goes away, is to try renaming it.

--
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad

Well said, 110% agreement (MOD HIM UP!)... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-22 08:42 · Score: 0

I couldn't have said it better, & per my subject-line, I am in utter "110% agreement"...

Boy, lol?

"YOU'RE ON A ROLL" from the post I am replying to, & your others here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2740745&cid=39440485 regarding re-writing an OS into MOSTLY Assembly code (I've noted it here long ago before myself & HAVE in fact, often wondered what Windows would perform like, were it written STRICTLY for x86/64 cpus, especially since MS gave up on porting it to less used platforms like Alpha, MIPS RISC, PowerPC, etc./et al... )

APK

P.S.=> Like I said, "mod him up", because he's 'dead-solid-perfect RIGHT" about his reply on "good luck beating entrenchment" especially... of course, given the "Pro-*NIX" stance around here? Good luck on being modded up to the max of course... we ALL know how that works around here, if you state ANYTHING good about Microsoft OR Windows especially! apk

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Microsoft Demos Metro UI For Enterprise Apps

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