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Apple vs. Nokia, RIM and Motorola On Nano-SIM Standard

angry tapir writes "Next week, two proposals for a new, smaller SIM card, dubbed nano-SIM — one backed by Apple and the other by Nokia, Research In Motion and Motorola Mobility — will go head-to-head as ETSI (the European Telecommunications Standards Institute) decides which card future smartphones and tablets will use. Measuring approximately 12 millimeters by 9 millimeters, the new SIM will be about 30 percent smaller than the micro-SIM. The thickness of the cards has been reduced by about 15 percent, according to Giesecke & Devrient. The nano-SIM is also approximately 60 percent smaller than traditional-size SIM cards."

29 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. Too small by Baron_Yam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After a certain point, you may as well forget the SIM and just build it into the device.

    Items that are meant to be removeable and transferable need to be large enough for a consumer to manipulate with their fingers.

    1. Re:Too small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How about a /sim/-folder on the microSD?

      Your phone provider could just email the file to you, you copy the file to the card and turn on the phone.

    2. Re:Too small by QuasiSteve · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, that is the step that should have been taken; software SIM

      Why they're still going for a card is beyond me - but perhaps it has something to do with licensing.

      The Giesecke & Devrient company mentioned in the article actually announced their nano SIM card last year:
      http://www.gi-de.com/en/about_g_d/press/press_releases/G%26D-Presents-World%E2%80%99s-First-Nano-SIM-Card-g17024.jsp

      Now unfortunately it has become a battle between companies that want to give their own little twist to it. Why? So they can charge license fees, of course. FRAND - yes, but $5 per device surely is completely fair? Especially if you're the company that gets that $5 per competitor's device.

      For now it looks like Apple is likely to be that company, as it already has several large European providers on board and is also trying to get a larger vote within ETSI. (Financial Times).

    3. Re:Too small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      With a software sim, it's too easy to disable the feature that you can remove the sim and replace it with another one. No-one wants more lock-in.
      Also, a hardware sim acts as a piece of trusted hardware, and can provide e.g. customized encryption (such as the Israelis use), serve as a secure storage for cryptographic material (e.g. eWallet applications), intercept call requests and reroute them to callback services, and many more uses (also see SIM toolkit).

    4. Re:Too small by beelsebob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple tried to do this, unfortunately, all the telcos baulked at the idea that any phone would be trivially reprogrammable to join another network –all you would need to do was tap a button on the phone and be instantly on a new contract.

    5. Re:Too small by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, exactly the reverse was the issue. When apple proposed this, the telcos baulked at the idea that users would be able to switch to a contract with another company at the tap of a button on their phone.

    6. Re:Too small by necro81 · · Score: 2

      Why they're still going for a card is beyond me - but perhaps it has something to do with licensing

      Having a card you pop in and out makes it relatively easy to migrate across carriers without a) letting them physically access your phone or b) opening the possibility of a software sim man-in-the-middle attack.

    7. Re:Too small by sitkill · · Score: 2

      You'll also have to understand that G&D LIFEBLOOD is the sim market. They get a cut of every sim card they make (also with the visa/mc cards you get). In essence, G&D is a company that is on life support with the new waves of technology (software sims, electronic payments, etc) unless they start to innovate on how they generate their revenue.

      Why they haven't gone Software sims? Pretty simple, Carriers are fighting tooth and nail to not go that road. The carriers last piece of the phone that they own is the Sim card and they will fight to keep it that way. They don't want you to have the ability to just switch carriers in 10 seconds by simply receiving a new sim card to your phone via binary sms.

      Which is also why they are pushing NFC technology into the SIM card as well. I wish Google all the luck, but google's NFC technology is going to be moot if the Carriers have their way with NFC.

    8. Re:Too small by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The point behind the SIM card is that it shall be easy to change phone without any fuzz. And if the SIM cards has different sizes depending on device it's counteracting that.

      Don't underestimate the advantage you can get by having different phones for different situations. A cheap simple rugged phone for outdoor and a flashy smartphone when doing business.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    9. Re:Too small by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      I rather like being able to trivially switch the device I'm using without any help from my network - I wouldn't have been able to start this contract period off with a Nokia N900, end it with an iPhone 4S, and have also used an iPhone 3G and a HTC Desire in between. All without my network provider knowing any different.

    10. Re:Too small by AvitarX · · Score: 3, Informative

      They know different.

      At least T-Mobile USA does. When I log into my account there is a picture of my phone, it changes when I move my sim.

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    11. Re:Too small by icebraining · · Score: 2

      They won't be "weird" - they'll an ETSI approved standard, which means that all SIM cards, at least in Europe, will be like that. And if your current SIM doesn't fit, I'm sure your provider will be happy to send you a new one for a nominal fee. At least here they are - getting a replacement SIM is fairly cheap.

    12. Re:Too small by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

      How about a /sim/-folder on the microSD?

      Your phone provider could just email the file to you, you copy the file to the card and turn on the phone.

      A SIM is not just a storage device. It's a full blown microcomputer with its own encryption engine and other stuff.

      Sure you interact with it in a simple command-and-response fashion (usually to get at contacts and such), but the processor can do a LOT more. If you've seen "SIM Applications" on your phone, they are little programs that run on the SIM CPU, interacting with the host phone through a well-defined interface called SIM Toolkit.

      Anyhow, if you know how ETSI works, or how most standards bodies work, it's really just a bunch of politics. There's a lot of backscratching and money that changes hands (because being part of the standard means patent licensing revenue). This is especially in cases where there's no patent pool entitiy (like MPEG-LA) that let you mass-license a bunch of patents at once so everyone has to go license the FRAND patents from everyone else.

      And that's the problem. Apple, despite probably selling maybe 10% of the phones, makes more profit off the iPhone and the other 90% combined. So everyone else is rightly worried that should this proposal go through they'd have to pay licensing fees to Apple (under FRAND terms).

      That's what it really boils down to - it's far more profitable to sue Apple over everything and hope to get forced licensing over Apple's much-desired non-FRAND patents than to let them in and then lose the leverage.

      Heck, even in 3G there's a pile of standards that you will not need for a regular phone (TD-CDMA for example). They're used in niche areas with narrow customer base. For stuff like this, it's more about being able to bid on contracts that demand "3G Wireless Technology" with a proprietary technology that no one else uses. It's only standard because it's in the spec that no reasonable person would use.

  2. Can we just forget it? by jbernardo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And drop the micro-SIM at the same time? It isn't like the SIM is too big, and having more than one standard means one can't interchange SIMs between phones (or tablets) without adapters. The "extra" size of the normal SIM in comparison with the micro (and now the nano) SIM isn't enough to make an impact on phone size, and the micro-SIMs are easier to lose. Also, the adapters don't work on all phones.

    1. Re:Can we just forget it? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      The mini-SIM is too big. You can get several components in the space occupied by the useless plastic surrounding the active part of the mini-SIM. Given everyone wants maximum functionality out of a very small device, that matters.

  3. Re:I liked the old fullsize sims better by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Probably most people don't realise that full sized SIMs were credit card sized.

  4. Re:Coolness Factor? by Ixokai · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I doubt its a cost issue; people keep saying on here "Oh, the regular one is small enough to not impact the phone size" and "Oh, the micro-SIM is small enough...." But, that's just missing the point. Its not the phone size Apple wants to change: its that they very much want the iPhone to turn into the Doctor's Blue Box and cram more into it without the size changing.

    If you look at the teardown of modern iPhones, you should notice just how densely packed they are-- and /any/ space savings means either more battery (likely), or some place to fit another chip in to provide some sensor or feature. Every little bit counts these days. Look at the teardown: the micro-SIM is to your fingers but it and its supporting space is significant on the scale of the device and its packed electronics.

    If they want to add more (more chips, more battery, more anything) they can only a) increase the device's size, b) take something out, or c) shrink something already in. They're trying to do c) and everything is on the table for shrinkage.

  5. Re:Software sims? by Dave+Whiteside · · Score: 2

    http://www.three.co.uk/
    a mobile phone operator in the UK

    --
    who where what when now?
  6. Re:Is there *really* a need for a smaller SIM??? by MindStalker · · Score: 2

    Well its about removing the excess padding. Old SIM standard had a lot of excess area around the contact points to fit the memory hardware. Newest nano-sim simply has no excess area besides the contact points. You can still slide a nano-sim card into an holder and it meets the micro-sim or full sim standards.

  7. When has Apple ever abused FRAND terms? by Brannon · · Score: 3, Informative

    they've been on the receiving end of RAND abuse, but I've never heard of them extracting unreasonable tolls/terms on any standards-contributed RAND technology.

    1. Re:When has Apple ever abused FRAND terms? by marsu_k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is simply because they don't have any FRANDable patents, only elementary stuff like round corners and slide-to-unlock (neither of which should have been granted).

  8. Re:Coolness Factor? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is also the reason Apple proposed a shorter headphone jack: To save space. Most Slashdot geeks were not impressed with the 4S as it didn't seem to be all that different externally. Internally Apple was able to make a GSM/CDMA phone the same size as their older, separate models. There is a lot of engineering these days to cram in as much in as possible like the new Motorola Droid that is missed if someone is looking at the tech specs only.

    --
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  9. Nothing to do with size by pablo_max · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple, like all other GSM/UMTS manufactures pay a licensing fee to companies like ORGA and Nokia to use the SIM cards. I will also point out that from the beginning, Apple did not want to use a SIM card. However, the SIM is a core requirement to using the GSM and UMTS standards. It is additionally required for both PTCRB and GCF certification schemes.
    One of the main benefits of the SIM / USIM is portability. The core spec was designed such that you could insert your SIM into any phone and be billed accordingly. It was actually against the rules to have a SIM locked phone back in the old days.

    No, Apple doesn't care how big it is, because lets face it, the SIM is not big. Apple is more interested in controlling the standard. Then, suddenly, ORGA, Nokia and even the carriers will need to pay Apple to use the new SIM format.

    Keep in mind though, it is not only carriers and phone makers who are effected. There are many smaller companies who have invested millions into the development of test equipment and software to test the current format of SIM.

    1. Re:Nothing to do with size by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      How will Apple control a standard when they are not the standards body? ETSI controls the standard. ETSI can change/reject Apple's proposal as they see fit especially if the fees are too much. Most likely the issues of fees will be addressed ahead of acceptance. At most, Apple's main benefit would be they pay no fees while everyone else pays a small fee to them. Or ETSI can combine elements of both proposals so that no one has an advantage. This is somewhat the same argument against Apple using DisplayPort when DisplayPort is a part of VESA's standard. MiniDSP was proposed by Apple and accepted as a standard.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  10. Re:We didn't learn anything from Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

    These are not competing standards. These are competing proposals for the same standard. Small but significant difference.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  11. Re:Software sims? by robmv · · Score: 2

    What is more secure? a Smartcard of a file certificate for user authentication? a SIM card contains keys that are in theory only available inside the hardware and the operator servers. Changing to a pure software solution is like replacing your corporate authentication infraestructure from a Smartcard to a USB drive with your keys

  12. Re:Software sims? by Ixokai · · Score: 2

    I'm sure Apple would love nothing more then to go SIMless: the idea of completely eliminating a component would thrill them. Think of what they could put in its place!

    But, the carriers rejected that idea hard, years ago. So Apple is doing the next best thing: trying to make the damn things as small as possible so they can recover the space for other things.

    The manufacturers only have so much power-- even Apple, whose influence over carriers is unparalleled and unprecedented, has limits to what it can twist their arm into doing. Unfortunately.

  13. One simple question by aglider · · Score: 2

    Why on earth?

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