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Record-Setting 100+ T Magnetic Field Achieved At Los Alamos

New submitter schrodingersGato writes "Researchers at the Los Alamos campus of the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory achieved a record-setting 100.75 Tesla magnetic field. To do this, scientists placed a resistive magnet (a sophisticated electromagnet) coupled to massive bank of capacitors within another magnet fixed at a 'lower' magnetic field. A short-lived pulse two million times stronger than the Earth's magnetic field was generated. The magnet itself made an eerie sound as it was energized (video). Prepare for the birth of Magneto!"

36 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Interplanetary Space? by gcnaddict · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How much stronger would a field have to be to protect a hypothetical ship the size of the space shuttle from solar winds and other non-EM ionizing radiation in interplanetary space?

    If 100 tesla is achievable now, then I can imagine it wouldn't take long before a field can be generated which would be powerful enough to provide a buffer against most ionizing radiation a la Earth's own magnetic field, but I could be way in the realm of science fiction with this thought.

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    1. Re:Interplanetary Space? by durrr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The earths magnetic field is not strong, it's just huge. You're probably more burdned by power and weight and size contraints if you want to shield a shuttle than field strenght.

      What I find interesting with this is that some "magic physics" theories postulates funny things to be possible at some ~50 tesla strenght. Probably won't show up anything, but testing them to falsify is always a noble goal.

    2. Re:Interplanetary Space? by XiaoMing · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's great that you can quote a few numbers you recall being important and draw inferences from them, but please leave the science to people who didn't just read the summary of an article, and go "hey that number I just read is bigger than another one I remember reading about somewhere else, so I'm close to discovering a solution!"

      This is like if you find out that if you place a 50lb bag on a 100 foot lever, you can generate 5000ft-lb of torque, and holy crap how far away are we from sandbag-lever arm car engines!?

      First off:
      This is a transient field generated by an electric current that was created through the discharge of capacitor banks. The banks themselves probably took a few minutes to charge up, at a power draw unsustainable for any space vehicle, and discharged a "short lived" pulse, which from the video, was order of seconds. Regardless, the point of mentioning "short-lived" is obviously that this cannot run in steady state, which wouldn't do much for protection.

      Second (and you and whoever modded you up have probably heard of this exciting term too):
      The physics behind an EMP (electromagnetic pulse) is exactly what this magnet would create: a large magnetic flux change through closed conducting circuits. That means that if you can't generate this type of magnetic field in steady state (remember the words "short-lived"?), you'd end up frying more components than whatever charged particles you want to protect against.

      Third:
      Does anyone know how standard magnetic fields are generated, or at least bother to take a look at the pretty pictures in the article? The 100T that was quoted was undoubtedly in the center of the giant metal solenoid (new buzzword for the pseudoscientists out there!). To "protect" a space vehicle from more science words using this specific methodology basically means building a giant metal sewer pipe around every space shuttle to begin with. The technology required to be useful in stellar flight requires small modular field generators that can create magnetic fields external to itself (and anything it wants to protect), not internal (where once again dFlux/dt would fry your circuits).

      Finally:
      "Non-EM ionizing radiation" is a cute and exciting phrase, but really that just means other "ions". And yes, if a magnetic field can stop a proton (a hydrogen ion) from that "non-EM" solar wind, it'll stop other forms of ions as well, as they all follow the same physics of being a massive (i.e. having mass) charged particle.

      +3 interesting?? What the fuck, mods.

    3. Re:Interplanetary Space? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      + 5 Informative, -6 for being a snarky asshole.

    4. Re:Interplanetary Space? by idontgno · · Score: 2

      You must be new here.

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    5. Re:Interplanetary Space? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      FYI: your reply would have been more interesting without the snobbery and generally superior attitude. You may be technically correct, but you sound like an ass.

    6. Re:Interplanetary Space? by Xiterion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a transient field generated by an electric current that was created through the discharge of capacitor banks.

      If you're going to pour on the snark, you could at least read enough of the article to understand that, while a capacitor bank is used in establishing the magnetic field, the primary energy storage was from a motor-generator that stores 1.2 GJ of energy for the experiments. So, while I agree that it's frustrating to hear half baked ideas for applications of exciting new science to pet science fiction dreams, doing so in a confrontational manner does little to actually enhance the knowledge of the folks making those sorts of suggestions.

    7. Re:Interplanetary Space? by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Does anyone know how standard magnetic fields are generated, or at least bother to take a look at the pretty pictures in the article? The 100T that was quoted was undoubtedly in the center of the giant metal solenoid (new buzzword for the pseudoscientists out there!). To "protect" a space vehicle from more science words using this specific methodology basically means building a giant metal sewer pipe around every space shuttle to begin with.

      This in itself shows a clear lack of understanding of how magnetic fields work. Magnetic fields are closed loops: what that means is, if there is a 100T flux through the middle of the magnet, there will also be an intense magnetic field curving back around the outside of the magnet (this is middle-school physics here). So if you ran the magnet through the center of the ship (and had sufficient power to leave it on, or hell a permanent magnet would also work), it would create a magnetic field that would extend around the entirety of the ship, which would deflect and charged particles stream that got near the ship (except at the ends, where like the Earth's north pole, the field would be parallel to incoming particles and wouldn't be deflected). Indeed, that design would be exactly identical to the Earth's magnetic field.

      Also, the EMP effect would be non-existent if you could keep the magnet charged (assuming you built up slowly), so that point is... well, not relevant to the posters question (he didn't say this design would work, only asked how strong the field would need to be in general). And your third point is just being snarky. He asked an interesting hypothetical question, and you answered snarkily and, ironically, in a way that revealed your own ignorance.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    8. Re:Interplanetary Space? by c0lo · · Score: 3, Informative

      What I find interesting with this is that some "magic physics" theories postulates funny things to be possible at some ~50 tesla strenght. Probably won't show up anything, but testing them to falsify is always a noble goal.

      They went to pulsed 200T in 1950-ies (see the MK2 in 1956).

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    9. Re:Interplanetary Space? by XiaoMing · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Good point.

      But the snark is there for a reason. He posed a silly thought, and was instantly modded to +3 with worthless comments otherwise. I post something factual with a shit attitude, and everyone spends additional effort trying their best to prove me wrong. Which one got the general public to do more thinking? Even the other (non AC) response to mine tried to at least mention some high school physics and bring up regimes where my EMP example might not completely hold.

      The real problem isn't that comments are misleading, but that too many people blindly eat up whatever sounds important or right without doing their own due diligence, as OP demonstrated first hand.

      There was a link on ./ a week ago regarding online comment sections being completely worthless. It was almost ironic that it was posted in ./, probably best known for its comments sections, and I refuse to let the same thing happen here without a fight.

      Ming

    10. Re:Interplanetary Space? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He might be ignorant, but you're just a dick

    11. Re:Interplanetary Space? by XiaoMing · · Score: 2

      And it's that wonderful 99% that ends up repeating a mis-understanding of said information in subsequent articles until we end up with every thread looking like those nuclear powerplant ones where most likely humanities majors have already set their religion on either thorium or pebble or TW reactors with no understanding of the physics nor the real-world nuclear proliferation implications.

    12. Re:Interplanetary Space? by hexagonc · · Score: 2

      Why be a douche about it? For one thing, you didn't even address the question. He did not ask: "Wow, this is neato! How can we apply this methodology to protecting starships?!!" He was asking about the use of magnetism in general to protect spacecraft from radiation. This is by no means a silly question or one steeped in ignorance. Instead, you went on a long tangent about the unsuitability of transient magnet fields and EM pulses -- relevant to the article but irrelevant to the question. I didn't even read your whole reply until I had read some of the responses to it. The problem was not with GP's question but rather with you.

      The only reason I'm replying to this is because your post was one of the worst, most arrogant replies I've ever read on Slashdot. And that's saying a lot. Contrary to popular opinion, most scientists are quite humble when dealing with questions from the public. Humility gets instilled in you when everything you say is subject to scrutiny by equally or more knowledgeable peers. Your comment is more suggestive of a physics grad student rather than someone who has spent years working as a scientist.

    13. Re:Interplanetary Space? by celtic_hackr · · Score: 2

      Also, if he hadn't been so snarky and actually had any creativity, he might have found some engineering that could be done on the apparatus to make it steady state. I haven't read the article, and not sure I'd want to be inside a space vehicle generating a 100T magnetic steady state or not.

      A little engineering knowledge might have helped him see beyond his theoretical physics knowledge, which itself is lacking, as has been pointed out.

      The fact the field is transient doesn't mean it needs to be that way. One could use multiple banks of capacitors to keep a constant charge, with some sine wave fluctuation of max and min field. A proper ship design would keep you from frying your components and passengers. I have no idea what a 100T field would do to people, but my guess is it's not harmless.

      While the poster seeking to make this into some spaceship protection field, clearly didn't have a grasp of the science vs science-fiction. Being a jerk explaining that doesn't help.

  2. In unrelated news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    >> A short-lived pulse two million times stronger than the Earth's magnetic field was generated.

    In unrelated news, government researchers have issued an RFP for 100 new disk drives and data recovery services.

  3. EAT IT, Thomas! by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Funny

    There ain't no SI unit named after Edison. beeeotch!

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:EAT IT, Thomas! by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 5, Funny

      i propose we use Edisons as units of patents trolled

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    2. Re:EAT IT, Thomas! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sadly, there is an award named after Edison and he gets all the attention in schoolbooks. Seems Edison's slow, amateur progress from a telegraph addict to inventing one of the least efficient light sources known to man is preferable to teaching about the 'madman' who repeatedly did the 'impossible' and established the technological foundation for the majority of modern age.

      Probably just a bunch of teachers scared about what the middle-school science fairs would look like if Tesla had been part of the lesson plan...

  4. Re:Warp drive next? by sycodon · · Score: 2

    Actually, for all you physicists out there and just for goggles, what kind of power and size of device would you need to give a spacecraft a magnetic field strong to protect that craft from radiation in the same manner the earth's magnetic field protects us?

    --
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  5. What insights will we gain from this? by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 2

    What insights will we gain from this breakthrough? As it stands it sounds as impressive as the Burj Khalifa in Dubai. Cool, but sort of useless.

    Why did they choose 100 Tesla as a target? Why not 117 Tesla? That is even more!

    1. Re:What insights will we gain from this? by Pranadevil2k · · Score: 2

      It doesn't go to 111 :(

    2. Re:What insights will we gain from this? by sloth+jr · · Score: 2

      It seems to be evolutionary work that will likely strengthen magnetic containment fusion (eg Tokamak/ITER) research.

    3. Re:What insights will we gain from this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      From TFA:

      "Today’s 100.75-tesla performance produced research results for scientific teams from Rutgers University, ÉcoleNationaleSupérieure d’Ingénieurs deCaen (ENSICAEN), McMaster University, University of Puerto Rico, University of Minnesota, Cambridge University, University of British Columbia, and Oxford University. The science that we expect to come out varies with the experiment, but can be summarized as:
      Quantum Phase transitions and new ultra high field magnetic states
      Electronic Structure determination
      Topologically protected states of matter"

  6. Re:What would survive. by Thud457 · · Score: 2

    This would make an excellent </Mr. Burns> death-ray if it did rip all the blood from someone else's body.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  7. Re:What would survive. by schrodingersGato · · Score: 2

    The issue is not the magnetic field strength (which only aligns the nuclear spins). Instead, the major hurdle would be that microwave frequency radiation would be needed to image a person at that field strength (rather than radio-frequency) at typical MRI field strengths, thus cooking the person by dielectric heating. Also, the iron in hemoglobin is paramagnetic, not ferromagnetic. It is aligned by the magnetic field, but is not at risk of being torn out of the body. Though if you like iron shavings with your breakfast cereal...

  8. Re:I thought I felt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    That wasn't change.

  9. Not just field strength by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How much stronger would a field have to be to protect a hypothetical ship the size of the space shuttle from solar winds

    The deflection of charged particles in a magnetic field is roughly proportional to the strength of the field and the "thickness" of the field i.e. the distance that the charged particle travels through it. So (ignoring important complexities like varying field strength, ship geomtery etc.) a 100T field 1 m around the craft would be roughly as effective as a 1T field extending 100m around the craft.

    1. Re:Not just field strength by squidflakes · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're damn right 100T is incredibly powerful. Most MRI rings for humans max out at 3T. Some of the experimental medical rings are 7T-8T and you have to be really careful working around those. I can't imagine 100T. Hell, we stuck a dumpster to a brick wall with a 5T magnet.

    2. Re:Not just field strength by squidflakes · · Score: 2

      There a comment lower down that talks about a human rated magnet in the teens. It's been a while since I was in diagnostic imaging, and the 8T magnets at the time had tiny bore holes, and were limited to small animal use.

      Jeez, 17T, that must have amazing resolution. Any idea how many slices?

    3. Re:Not just field strength by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      14 years ago I routinely used a 12T NMR, and we had a 17T model in the basement (time on that one was a bit harder to get).

      However, to be useful for most forms of NMR the field has to be very uniform and stable over long periods of time. You can't do that with pulses or some of the other techniques used at this high-field lab. There are of course all kinds of other things you can do there.

      MRIs tend to be much weaker than NMRs. The problem is the bore size of the magnet. Scaling up the size of a magnet is very difficult, and it takes a lot more energy to make a weak field the size of the earth than a strong one that you can fit a skinny test tube inside. This is similar to the difference between temperature and heat. A match and a bonfire might be the same temperature, but the bonfire puts out way more heat.

      Medical MRI tends to be only a few T at most. Really big ones are in the very low teens, and are VERY expensive to build. Of course, MRIs have spacial resolution and NMRs typically do not. An NMR probes fairly complex chemical relationships but does not generate a spacial image. An MRI probes fairly simple chemical relationships (often just the presence of water or a contrast agent), but it takes a 3D picture.

      The other more modern trend is building bigger NMRs but instead of making them more powerful using extra magnets to cancel out the field outside of the dewer. This makes them easier to site - and people don't get injured by flying tools if somebody is careless. High-field NMRs can be very dangerous when performing operations like filling with the aid of gas cylinders (with very long hoses). Shielding or not, another big danger with either NMRs or MRIs is ventilation. If something causes the magnet to quench you can get huge volumes of He/N2 liberation which will quickly displace all O2 in even a large room.

  10. Re:What would survive. by jd · · Score: 3, Informative

    The strongest MRI currently used on humans is 9.1T and a 13T MRI scanner is being built - might already be finished. Given that the 9.1T is good enough to see individual neurons, the 13T scanner might be good enough to start seeing the fine structure of the synapses. I look forward to seeing the photos that will hopefully be published once the scanner gets going.

    It would be interesting to see how far you could go before the damage becomes excessive. Would it be possible to build an MRI capable of directly observing the proteins that control and form memories? Could you observe the tau protein unpeeling as Alzheimer's begins? (Long before structural changes occur, which in turn is long before symptoms appear.)

    How about archaeological uses? Could a high-power MRI reveal something of the mental state of the various bog bodies that have been found? What about Otzi? If we can directly observe memory structure, could we interrogate his brain to find out what happened to him?

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  11. Re:What would survive. by schrodingersGato · · Score: 2

    MRi is technically just a euphemism for Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR) imaging. The N was dropped because it of the obvious stigma that word possesses outside of scientific circles. We already have structures of these proteins solved by NMR. The next challenge is indeed to view these molecular systems in-vivo. I doubt that these techniques will actually make it out of the research setting. MRi's with fields higher than 3T are having trouble being approved by the FDA for clinical use. This is complicated by the fact that high field instruments are really expensive to begin with. Other scientists are working hard to advance the image quality in other ways.

  12. Re:What would survive. by schrodingersGato · · Score: 2

    Agilent (Varian) has a system that is up to 16T and Bruker has systems up to almost 12T. Technically, the highest field MRI is at the NHMFL (21T at 900MHz), but it cannot accept live samples so it doesn't count...

  13. Re:What would survive. by jd · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
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  14. Re:What would survive. by schrodingersGato · · Score: 2

    The issue is not the magnetic field, its the dielectric heating from the microwave-frequency radiation needed to detect nuclear spins at the higher magnetic fields. Yes, the cell-phone radiation issue has raised the question of whether other (yet undetected) phenomena can occur in cells (like changes in gene regulation/expression) in response to microwave radiation. The issue of cooking a patient is by far a bigger challenge. Patients can get waivers for high field MRIs, but the spectrometers are still not very common (mostly due to their price). Image quality can be improved by other, cheaper methods such as DNP. Most hospitals still use 2-D, black and white (X-ray style) renderings of MRi data due to their policy, level of comfortability, and in some cases law. Also, a limited number of MRi experiments are even approved for diagnostics (even the hyped fMRi/lie detector is not technically FDA approved to treat or diagnose anything). Other than an elite group of specialist physicians and medical research scientists, most clinicians probably would not be able to take advantage of the improved resolution of high field instruments unfortunately.

  15. Re:What would survive. by jd · · Score: 2

    Molecules absorb at very specific frequencies, so provided you don't emit microwave radiation at the hydroxide bond frequency or any other frequencies "reserved" by biochemistry, you should be safe enough. That means that you need to be very selective about microwave frequency components, which in turn means specific sized magnets won't be usable at all. Those not in the automatically excluded list will depend on how good you are at ensuring genuinely harmful frequencies either don't occur or don't reach the person.

    Of course, it's very easy to talk about absorption bands. It's much, much harder to build very high-power devices that stay out of said bands.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)