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Facebook Buys 750 IBM Patents

eldavojohn writes "Considering IBM's portfolio gained 6,180 last year alone, it's not a huge number. But after a dispute with Yahoo a couple weeks ago, Facebook has purchased 750 patents from IBM. That's over thirteen times the 56 they were reportedly holding. The humorous rumor is that Yahoo might have been licensing these patents from IBM. If you can't beat 'em, buy the patents they're licensing from another company. Another rumor is that Facebook might be just getting started in their bid to expand their patent portfolio (video). No word yet whether the purchased patents directly pertain to Yahoo's infringement claims on messaging, privacy controls, advertising, customization and social networking."

19 of 46 comments (clear)

  1. Software patents are bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The fact that a single company can get over six thousands patents in a single year is proof enough that it's a bad idea to allow software patents.

    Competition and free market is now impossible because of these stupid patents that should never have been granted in the first place.

    1. Re:Software patents are bad by Surt · · Score: 3, Informative

      IBM doesn't get all that many software patents. Theirs are mostly hardware innovations.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    2. Re:Software patents are bad by bws111 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It implies no such thing. IBM is a very large company, with lots of researchers, developers, and engineers in many disciplines. Now, how about an example of IBM squeezing money out of people who dare to make their own things?

    3. Re:Software patents are bad by avirrey · · Score: 4, Funny

      What AC is trying to say is 64K should be enough for anybody.

      --
      X's and O's for all my foes.

    4. Re:Software patents are bad by bws111 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You will notice that nowhere in that article does it actually say that IBM did sue, threaten to sue, or even send a cease and desist letter to anyone. In fact, all IBM said was that they would not license their software to run on TurboHercules. That some paranoid guy interpreted that as IBM 'threatening' him, well, that is really not IBM's problem.

      As for the rest of your little rant: so what? If you need full performance of the machine, you pay for it. If you don't, you don't. Where, exactly, is the 'scam'? And if you think a mainframe provides the same value as off-the-shelf PC hardware, well, then there is really no point in trying to have an intelligent discussion with you. And BTW, the processors run at >5GHz.

    5. Re:Software patents are bad by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      You already have the machine. It's been built and delivered to you at a price you already paid. Now they want you to pay again to actually use it. Perhaps it's legal, perhaps it's a good business model for them, but it's kind of weird. It would make sense it the buy was actually considered a lease, but I thought that IBM was prohibited from doing that back in the sixties or so.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  2. Patentnopoly by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It sounds like the board game "Monopoly" needs an update. Who cares about hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place? Own the most patents, and charge the highest licensing fees, and you win!

    "I have one word of advice for you, son, Patents! Not plastics, Patents!"

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Patentnopoly by GeckoAddict · · Score: 2

      Forget go, you collect $200 for each player just for it being your turn!

    2. Re:Patentnopoly by million_monkeys · · Score: 2

      You should patent your idea as "method to derive entertainment from the current state of the patent system".

  3. Idea: If patent changes hands, becomes public by Benji+Minoskovich · · Score: 2

    This might be a crackpot idea but it just popped into my head so I haven't thought it through...

    As a compromise to combat patent trolls, litigation, the stifling of innovation, etc., how about changing the law so that once a patent changes hands it enters the public domain or ceases to be. It's imperfect, but has many benefits.

    It would protect the initial inventor/patentor. You wouldn't have the same outcry as if you banned patents all together. However, is also a limitation as it would not stop litigation brought on by the original inventor. But it would put an end to patent trolls and would enable patents to enter the public domain at a much quicker rate. Sure, patent transactions would slow, but it's not unthinkable that a company would purchase a patent to protect itself from a lawsuit knowing that that very purchase will destroy the patent.

    1. Re:Idea: If patent changes hands, becomes public by rolfeb · · Score: 2

      There's probably a bunch of interesting ways that [software] patents could be modified to make them work better. For example,

      1. Patents can only be sold by individuals. If a company owns a patent, it can only be transferred to another company if the company is bought out.

      2. Once a patent has been granted you have 18 months [say] to come up with a concrete implementation and sell N units. Otherwise it lapses into the public domain.

      3. You cannot sue for infringement of a patent unless you have a concrete implementation and sell N units. If people infringe, you can sue them once you've got your product out there.

      4. An annual company tax on patents. The more you have, the more you pay. Tax collected goes into improving the patent system.

      There are probably issues with all of the above. I haven't thought them through :-)

      Unfortunately, as long as the companies that abuse the system and the government don't want change, it's not going to happen. That's why I'd also like to see some large company get smashed by another. It might make people sit up and take notice.

  4. 750 seems like a lot to me by timeOday · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Patents are like movie scripts - most of them never go anywhere. If I were managing IBMs IP I would be more proud of selling 750 than being granted 6000, because it's an external validation of the quality, as opposed to quantity, of the patents. (And by "quality" in this case I really just mean "marketability," or "return on IBM's investment in research," as opposed to something harder to quantify, like scientific merit).

  5. Disheartened Developer by mikeytag · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a developer, it really disheartens me to think that any application I create that becomes popular is likely to be litigated against for patent violations. I've never searched for patents or seen one and thought "AHA! That's how I'll make this algorithm!" No, I just code and create logical solutions to problems that are presented.

    No one should be able to claim ownership of the fact that 2 + 2 = 4 and force others to always use 3 and 1 to do addition for the next 20 years. God forbid, someone patents 3 + 1 = 4!!!

    1. Re:Disheartened Developer by rolfeb · · Score: 2

      I think it's probably not that bad. All software out there infringes on multiple patents.

      The vast majority will never see a lawsuit for various reasons:

      - The invention is not obvious (especially with software patents)
      - You're not a big enough target to make it worthwhile
      - The patent is only used for cross-licensing / intimidation purposes
      - The patent holder would be too embarrassed to sue over a patent they shouldn't have been granted in the first place (I'd like to think this happens)

  6. Time to dump software patents? :) by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Given the recent SCOTUS decision about the patentability of "laws of nature" (Mayo v Prometheus), following right on the heels of Bilski, I would be dumping software patents as fast as I could, and would be overjoyed to find someone like Facebook willing to pay me for them.

    Once again, IBM proves that they're no dummies. :)

  7. House of Cards by beenThereBefore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The software patent end of the industry is a house of cards. Currently it only holds up because everyone plays along. In order to sustain the house of cards all the major players have to cross license all of their patent portfolios. No one really even knows which patents they are violating, or being violated at any time.

    You only see small skirmishes play out, like Motorola vs Apple, major ones are always settled. The major players use this cross licensing to try and keep small and medium sized companies from coming into their space. Once you generate enough revenue to put up a good fight, they have to let you in 'the club'. Facebook crossed that threshold. FB will now cross license with all the other players.

    A system initially designed to foster innovation is now a detriment. The mass cross licensing of patents should be considered in anit-trust light. It allows the major players to share ip, while blocking the others and keep their prices artificially high as a result. No different than direct collusion. The system should be unwound.

  8. Most IBM patents come from ordinary employees by gelfling · · Score: 2

    Doing a little work on their own with little guidance from management. There's a patent program where, they award a few dollars and give your these impressive certificates for successive levels of patent applications and ultimately, an award or two. Because keep in mind there's a huge difference between an application and an award. In order for an application to make it as far as being submitted to the government, it has to pass through an army of attorneys at IBM.

    If you are smart enough and fortunate enough to make it through that gauntlet. then the patent goes into a huge database where a different organization scours the countryside hither and yon looking for people who might either buy them, license them or potentially infringe them in which case another battalion of attorneys gets to work.

    The fact that IBM even parted with this property means they sold them for more than what they were worth to IBM. And facebook is in way over their depth if they think they're getting the better of Big Blue.

    1. Re:Most IBM patents come from ordinary employees by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      The fact that IBM even parted with this property means they sold them for more than what they were worth to IBM. And facebook is in way over their depth if they think they're getting the better of Big Blue.

      The patents may be worth a hell of a lot more to Facebook than to IBM. If these things pertain to instant messaging, online gaming platforms, managing online user profiles, ranking through friends, virual currency, and all the other crap Facebook is doing or planning to do, then IBM's price will be well worth the fee. While they may be next to useless to IBM, Facebook could use such patents to defend against suits from competitors, or sue those competitors in turn.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  9. Re:I wish companies would do the right thing inste by guttentag · · Score: 2

    Doing the right thing always seems logical, but when you look at the bigger picture it's not always effective.

    Take your commute, for instance. If the people around you did the right thing, they would leave three seconds between their bumper and the car in front of them. Everyone would hit their brakes less frequently, traffic would flow more smoothly, there would be fewer accidents, less wear and tear on the road, and everyone would get where they were going faster and with less stress. Makes sense, right? But then some asshole will exploit the spaces that each of them have left, weaving in and out, forcing people to hit their brakes, causing waves of slowdowns and possibly accidents.

    This is nothing new. Alexander Hamilton observed that people act mostly out of self-interest. The solution is to create a system that makes it in one's self-interest to do the right thing.

    In theory, the solution here is to create a system where it is in the interest of a company to hold a large stable of software patents and not use them. In other words, if you can demonstrate that you hold a significant patent and have allowed small competitors to do things that don't blatantly violate your patent but might be in a grey area, for every year you do not use it like a hammer to crush competition, you get a tax break or some other incentive. But if you have a challenge from some significant threat, you still have the option to exercise your right to litigate... you just forfeit your tax break. The system should also make it more difficult to successfully litigate with a software patent. Therefore the company is forced to make a choice and decide which is in their best interest: litigation or the incentive to not litigate. In the process, the greater good is served because the patent is effectively held in trust by a company that is not likely to use it unless it's absolutely necessary, and this protects everyone from patent trolls.

    Companies really shouldn't focus on patents as much as they do, because the idea that a patent really protects your intellectual property is flawed. At the end of the day, anything you patent here is just going to be copied and sold in China or India, anyway. India recently allowed a local drug company to copy a cancer drug patented by Bayer so it can sell it for 97% less, so long as it pays a portion of the proceeds to Bayer, effectively ignoring Bayer's R&D costs. And China... well... anything goes in China with regard to patents and copyright as long as it's not deemed a threat to the Party. I couldn't find an e-book copy of K&R anywhere for sale... but you can download it in PDF format for free from Chinese universities.