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European Law Could Give Hackers Mimimum Two-Year Sentence

judgecorp writes "A proposed European law would apply a minimum two-year prison sentence for hacking across the region. This is a step up for nations including Britain, whose Computer Misuse Act currently has a two-year maximum sentence."

21 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. Minimum Sentences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Judges hate minimum sentences. Legislators should stop making them.

    1. Re:Minimum Sentences by elucido · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Minimum sentences as well as private prisons should be entirely unconstitutional.

    2. Re:Minimum Sentences by sg_oneill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Judges hate minimum sentences. Legislators should stop making them.

      Yeah, you can see how this will go wrong. Someone finds an open facebook at a netcafe, and decide to post some dopey comment on the unsuspecting security-ignoramasus page. The person flips out and calls the cops, and the cops charge him, because technically it is hacking.

      The judge hears the case and goes "Well I have to find this guy guilty, and normally I'd give him a $50 fine and tell him to quit being a dick, but instead he's going to jail for 2 years and having the rest of his life ruined because of a harmless prank.

      Yes indeed, theres a very good reason judges hate mandatory minimums.

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    3. Re:Minimum Sentences by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Simpletons are the only ones who like mandatory minimums. You have a mechanism to investigate crimes on a case-by-case basis, looking at all the evidence, the factors that went into the crime, and setting the punishment to fit the case. That's the job of the courts. It's not perfect, but one-size-fits-all justice is usually not justice. The mandatory minimum sentence should be zero in ALL crimes.

    4. Re:Minimum Sentences by Kat+M. · · Score: 4, Informative

      The article is not entirely clear on the minimum sentence part. From the body of the text it appears that it's that the maximum sentence should be at least two years (which makes sense, given that individual member states would be free to set higher maximum sentences if it's a directive), and five if there are aggravating circumstances. Also, given that petty offenses should not carry criminal sanctions at all does not mesh with a minimum two year sentence.

      The only part that mentions a two year minimum sentence is the summary paragraph, which may be the result of poor editing.

      There's a video recording of the committee meeting, but I don't really have the time to search through it to find what was actually decided. I guess it'll become clearer within the next few days.

    5. Re:Minimum Sentences by Skidborg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course part of that is that the "death penalty" is more of a "rot in prison for a decade or two and then we might kill you penalty", and by the time the executioners get around to offing anybody the public has completely forgotten about both the original crime and the murderer, and the execution doesn't even make the news.

      A punishment of any kind can't serve as a warning to would-be criminals if it's carried out in a way that nobody knows or cares about.

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    6. Re:Minimum Sentences by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which is an argument that it should be abolished, since rushing the job and massively increasing the risk of executing an innocent person is not an option.

    7. Re:Minimum Sentences by davester666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, you, a reasonable person with neither an axe to grind or a political point to make.

      But in reality, things like"I've had too many of these stupid hacks screwing up the wifi at the coffee shop I go to. Find the guy doing it and nail his balls to the wall for 2 years." Or it's a funny hack that goes viral, giving it lots of publicity, so the prosecutor has to follow through "because it's the law and we don't want to encourage this behaviour".

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    8. Re:Minimum Sentences by Carewolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Minimum sentences are pure insanity and pandering to the voters.

      The problem is that it takes away the option of the prosecutor and judge to give fair sentences, and forces them to hand out minimum sentences for cases where the minimum sentence was never intended.

      Examples are plentiful everywhere they have been implemented. 10 year prison for teenager for taking nude pictures of themselves, 4 year prison for _reporting_ child-pornography on web to the police (reporter have it cached on your computer, so in his possession)... The list goes on, it should be unconstitutional to protect politicians from being tempted to introduce this insanity.

    9. Re:Minimum Sentences by Carewolf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ahh.. Yes. The people who actually UNDERSTAND the cases, and who knows ALL THE DETAILS gives out smaller sentences than people who HAVE NO CLUE would like..

      A "funny" experiment was made a few years ago. A random group of people where selected they were first asked if they felt punishment for crimes were too soft, most agreed. They then looked at specific cases with all the details, and in each case when presented with all the evidence - most felt the punishment was too harsh.

  2. Also prohibits hacking tools. by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From the article:

    The proposal also targets tools used to commit offences: the production or sale of devices such as computer programs designed for cyber-attacks, or which find a computer password by which an information system can be accessed, would constitute criminal offences.

    So, what would the scope of such a prohibition be? Would pen testing tools commonly used by security professionals be prohibited in Europe? Would you need a license to possess or use such tools? This sounds like an overreaching law. And since when did the European parliament get the authority to impose mandatory minimum prison sentences in its member nations?

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    1. Re:Also prohibits hacking tools. by X0563511 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I used wireshark to fix a bug today. Apparently I would be a criminal in the UK, with a minimum sentence of 2 years.

      This is fucked.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    2. Re:Also prohibits hacking tools. by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Funny

      At least in the U.S. we have a 10th amendment and a Supreme Court which forbids congress from exercising powers never granted to it

      There's amendments with lower numbers they ignore all the time.

      Why should the 10th be any different?

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    3. Re:Also prohibits hacking tools. by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Funny

      I used wireshark to fix a bug today. Apparently I would be a criminal in the UK, with a minimum sentence of 2 years.

      This is fucked.

      No, no! That's good news! In Texas, you'd get the death penalty...

  3. What is illegal for the citizenry... by NemoinSpace · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Should be illegal for the government.

  4. Queue the misapplications of this law by lightknight · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just watch and wait: it'll be the kid who takes apart his iPod to replace the broken battery who gets charged.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  5. Minimum sentences, three strikes, all traps by elucido · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These ideas are all traps put in place by corrupt lawmakers and special interest groups that benefit from for profit prisons. Don't get it twisted.

  6. And of course everything will count as hacking by Hentes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have a suspicion that they will count jailbreaking/bypassing DRM as hacking too. It's just a small step from outlawing IP spoofing.
    How about sentencing hackers based on the damage they have done instead of another witchhunt against technology?
    Only demonstrating a vulnerability: no sentence or a few month of community service; destroying data or sabotaging systems: monetary fine based on the losses that occurred if the guy can't pay then prison; stealing and selling or making public user data: long long years of prison.

  7. far too over-reaching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    when i was 16 while learning how to program i created a cheating engine for an online game which i was then arrested and charged for at 18 under the computer misuse act. as it stood i was given a £300 fine and some community service, considrring i was unaware of the fact breaking TOS was illegal (i was a kid, and cheats have always been in games, or things like gameshark that injected into games so i consider
    ed it akin to that) hoeever this new law would have seen me goto prison for two years.

    this is just a stupidly thought out blanket law in my opinion. hopefully it doesnt go through or thrre will be a big spree of teenagers in jail for petty things like that.

  8. Re:Minimum or minimum maximum by Rhodri+Mawr · · Score: 3, Interesting
    From the first linked article:

    Cyber attacks on IT systems would become a criminal offence punishable by at least two years in prison throughout the EU under a draft law backed by the Civil Liberties Committee on Tuesday.

    The maximum penalty to be imposed by Member States for these offences would be at least two years' imprisonment, and at least five years where there are aggravating circumstances such as the use of a tool specifically designed to for large-scale (e.g. "botnet") attacks, or attacks cause considerable damage (e.g. by disrupting system service), financial costs or loss of financial data.

    At first glance these two paragraphs do appear to be contradicting each other - but it isn't clear which of these paragraphs is an EU press release and which is the journalist's interpretation. The article (and as a result the slashdot summary) may be misinterpreting the press release.

    "maximum" may be a misprint here, or, the EU may, as usual, be trying to obfuscate the intent of their legislation.

  9. What constitution? by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 3

    Europe doesn't have a constitution, it's not even a nation or anything like that. There was an attempt at a European constitution, but it was voted down in referendums in several countries in the EU.

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