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Munich Has Saved €4M So Far After Switch To Linux

New submitter Mojo66 writes "Mayor Ude reported today that the city of Munich has saved €4 million so far (Google translation of German original) by switching its IT infrastructure from Windows NT and Office to Linux and OpenOffice. At the same time, the number of trouble tickets decreased from 70 to 46 per month. Savings were €2.8M from software licensing and €1.2M from hardware because demands are lower for Linux compared to Windows 7."

31 of 370 comments (clear)

  1. Not Surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Linux is better, faster, and more stable. Just the savings on support calls alone would be enormous.

    1. Re:Not Surprised by wanzeo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      €1.2M from hardware because demands are lower for Linux compared to Windows 7

      This is an often overlooked additional benefit, especially if you use a lightweight environment. A modern distro running LXDE and LibreOffice can make 10 year old hardware an adequate machine for 90% of office uses. As a bonus, future upgrades to ARM PCs would be essentially transparent to the users.

    2. Re:Not Surprised by tiffany352 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I use LXDE because it reduces the bloat of a clunky window manager. You do not really have this option in windows, you only have explorer. That's it. If you want an older version? You're suggesting downgrading to an older, about to lose support, version of windows? What kind of suggestion is that? I don't have to downgrade to a distro from 2002 to get a speedy desktop, why should I have to do that with windows. In my experience, linux has always been much faster than windows (even with clunky ubuntu versus windows xp), more stable, and a friendlier environment for development. I still run windows, however, because running direct X 10/11 games in WINE is impossible if not near, and WINE is slow anyway (Ironically, blockland runs faster in wine than it does natively on windows...). And on my laptop, I have optimus graphics which are unsupported by nvidia for linux. So, I have to either play games on windows or suffer extremely slow integrated intel graphics.

    3. Re:Not Surprised by Barbara,+not+Barbie · · Score: 5, Informative

      "trendy" modern distros...actually run slower under Linux

      They're talking about servers.

      Don't be silly - they're talking desktop users switching from Windows+Office to Linux+OpenOffice - 14,000 PCs and laptops. Since when does anyone run OpenOffice on a server?

      --
      Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
    4. Re:Not Surprised by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the various computers where I've installed most "trendy" modern distros (ubuntu, etc), they actually run slower under Linux than Windows.

      In what way?

      Reduced CPU speed? Slower network access? How does your OS reduce the speed of your hardware? Do you have any benchmarks showing comparative speed?

      (The incredible sluggishness of nautilus is one of the things that made me reinstall windows on one of my development machines).

      You're a developer and you changed your entire OS because you couldn't change the settings to speed up a file manager? (hint: Nautilus shows thumbnails and previews audio). Please tell/warn us which projects you're working on!

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    5. Re:Not Surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I do. OpenOffice runs headless as part of a document conversion service, main use is to convert the various MS Office documents to pdf.

    6. Re:Not Surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      explorer.exe can be changed as the default windows manager.

    7. Re:Not Surprised by graphius · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Strange, I have the exact opposite experience. Photoshop running in wine (on mint) runs faster than nativly in Windows on the same dual boot machine. I also find that from log in to finished desktop is MUCH faster with linux. Windows seems to come up, but then various programs keep popping up for attention.*
      I will admit that flash is better in windows than Linux woo hoo.....

      * before you say uninstall a bunch of programs in windows, I have the same functionality in Linux without the slowdown at boot.

    8. Re:Not Surprised by cjav · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First, I couldn't tell for sure as for more than 10 years Linux and recently some OSX have been all I've used. I do however have to troubleshoot Windows PCs for friends and family, none run as smooth as my Linux machines. Why?, the only reason I can come of, these aren't new installs. Please make the same comparison 6 months after using your Windows machine. Maybe you are fine doing clean reinstalls every 6 months, I'm not.

    9. Re:Not Surprised by Gaygirlie · · Score: 4, Informative

      Say, do you always throw out the baby with the bathwater? Last I heard it's very easy to replace various components on PCs without having to replace the whole thing.

    10. Re:Not Surprised by ArcherB · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Linux is better, faster, and more stable. Just the savings on support calls alone would be enormous.

      On the various computers where I've installed most "trendy" modern distros (Ubuntu, etc), they actually run slower under Linux than Windows. Not that Linux doesn't have plenty of other advantages, but in my experience, for out-of-the-box installs, speed isn't one of them.

      I think the big test would be to bench them again in six months and then a year. I think you'll find the Linux box catching up to, and then passing the Windows box as Linux does not suffer from "Windows rot." Every application you install seems to just HAVE to start up with the system and run ALL THE DAMN TIME! Do I really need iTunes, Google updater, MS Office, Acrobat Reader, and Winzip running ALL THE DAMN TIME? Here's a better idea: DON'T LAUNCH UNTIL I TELL YOU TO LAUNCH! I don't need MS Office preloaded and ready to go just case I might need to create a OneNote thingie. I think I'll be OK if I have to wait the extra 1.5 seconds when I decide to launch it. Nothing is more frustrating that when I see someone complaining about their computer being slow and I find that their little notification icons run from the clock to the middle of the task bar and then fixing it for them for the fourth time in a quarter.

      It's also important to note that Linux upgrades itself for free with little user interaction. Windows can do the same, but it's not free and after four or five upgrades, your machine is useless from all the legacy stuff left over from installation's past.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    11. Re:Not Surprised by rve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wouldn't help that much. When I worked for the provincial government IT, literally 90% of calls were people forgetting their passwords.

      Seriously, that's your fault, with your password policies (passwords expire each month or two, have to be so and so long, contain the usualy mix of upper & lower case, numbers, special characters, and the icing on the cake: may not have 3 or more characters in common with a password ever used previously), the only way to remember your passwords is to write them down, which is officiallly a firing offense by the way. At some point, users, even the techies, are just not going to bother trying to come up with a new password that will pass the validation and can still be remembered, they'll simply call you and ask you to reset the password every time it expires. That's what I did.

    12. Re:Not Surprised by Nutria · · Score: 4, Informative

      How does your OS reduce the speed of your hardware?

      By using an inefficient graphics driver (nouveau) with an eye-candy laden window manager (compiz).

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    13. Re:Not Surprised by evilviper · · Score: 4, Informative

      That "saving" would be more than offset by the lower capabilities and higher failure rates of 10-year-old hardware.

      I've deployed hundreds of older, off-lease systems in a corporaate environment, and have not seen anything like you've described. Failure-rate is slightly higher than brand-new systems, but still very low. They are also cheap enough there are ready spares, clones from the same base image, that the lowliest tech is empowered to use/swap at-will.

      Do you really want to trust your work, even temporarily, to a 10-year-old PC hard drive. Or use a 10mbps network card on a gigabit network if you're sharing files on a server?

      HDD failure rates follow a bathtub curve, so I'd actually rather have an old HDD that passes SMART tests, than a brand-new one.

      And NICs? They've ALL been 100Mbit since the mid 90s, which is plenty fast enough for all but the heaviest file-transfer uses. And it's only been a little under 10 years ago that GigE showed-up in PCs, so you might get lucky.

      Or laptops (the project included converting lots of laptops) with only wireless b and crappy encryption?

      You need to go read-up... WPA was a drop-in replacement for WEP, and cards much more than a decade only will only need a firmware upgrade. Besides, nothing says you have to depend on either... My company requires laptops to VPN in, even one the company's Wifi APs. It's only slightly inconvenient.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    14. Re:Not Surprised by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Informative
      But that's not what Munich is doing.

      They're using a LiMux, a customised version of Ubuntu 10.04 LTS with KDE3.5. On any modern hardware, it'll be very responsive.

      Read Florian Maier's presentation. Warning, PDF: https://www.desktopsummit.org/sites/www.desktopsummit.org/files/DS2011_LiMux_Desktop_Retrospective_2011-08-08.pdf

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    15. Re:Not Surprised by dudpixel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you care about performance, why are you running nouveau?

      Yes its the default, but use a recent video card in windows and see how you like the default.

      Just because its linux doesn't mean you dont have to install the right drivers from the manufacturer sometimes.

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    16. Re:Not Surprised by macshit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The policy at the time was 6 characters, with at least 1 capital and at least 1 number, and couldn't be the same as the last one.

      What do you want? One character passwords?

      Of course not, but also not useless-yet-annoying rules like the above...

      Require a capital letter? 95% will make it the first one. Require a digit? 95% will just append "0". Increase in difficulty for someone trying to guess passwords? Zero.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    17. Re:Not Surprised by WaywardGeek · · Score: 4, Informative

      Games... the last great reason to have Windows machines. My kids originally both had Ubuntu, but the whining about games was too much for me to withstand, and I installed Windows for both of them. Now I seem to install Windows fairly often, as they get freaking computer viruses like other children get the flu.

      --
      Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
    18. Re:Not Surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm sure you mean mean "my children install malware frequently".

      I'm so sick of the supposedly "smart", "tech-savvy" people on Slashdot bitching about Windows getting "viruses". If you were a good geek instead of a wayward one maybe you'd not give your children admin privileges and then they wouldn't install things they shouldn't.

  2. Now go for another 4 million ... by Kaz+Kylheku · · Score: 5, Funny

    Get rid of that office shit and replace with Vim and Emacs. :) :)

    1. Re:Now go for another 4 million ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hell - let's just turn the computers off. That will save millions!

    2. Re:Now go for another 4 million ... by inhuman_4 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Emacs only costs nothing if your soul is worthless.

      This message is brought to you by the Coalition for the Ethical Treatment of Swap Space.

  3. Re:Does that include cost of training and transiti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Also in the bill were included training costs and costs of migration" FTFA

  4. Re:Does that include cost of training and transiti by chill · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The transition from Windows XP and Office 2003 to Windows 7 and Office 2010 has enormous training costs associated with it. I would not be surprised if the training for the Linux setup was less, if the kept the basic look and feel. And a wash if the didn't bother.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  5. Re:Does that include cost of training and transiti by Narcocide · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You would be really surprised how much of this can be mitigated if your sysadmins and support staff already have a Linux backround of some sort. One person with 5 or so years of experience customizing a specific Linux distribution can virtually eliminate amost all of the cost of training for the transition for the rest of the staff simply by creating and deploying some common desktop software and related customizations to make it "more like Windows."

  6. Re:Does that include cost of training and transiti by iroll · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Training? Ahahahaha, ohohohoho, eehehehehee.

    Purely from an office drone's perspective (all software proselytizing aside), training is the bogeyman. The vendors bring it out to scare the customer, but it doesn't exist. It "costs" eleventy billion dollars! Nobody will know how to do anything if you don't buy training!

    But big offices make big changes all the time, and they don't *really* do squat for training. They might gather the group around a conference table and click through some slides, and tell everybody that Joe has used the program before and they should ask him if they're having trouble.

    Hooray, you wasted a day watching powerpoint and you got a photocopied certificate that you get to scrawl your own name on!

    How many offices have gone from something, to Lotus, to Exchange, to Google... etc.? And it's not just email infrastructure. Your billing system as a consultant might change every few years; your code management system as a programmer might change. Your document control system might change. The way your network space is apportioned, the way you print; any number of things can change depending on the way the wind blows in management.

    And then, you top it off with planned obsolescence: remember going from Office 97 to Office XP? And then to the new craziness of Office 2010? A little old lady secretary wouldn't be any more confused by moving to Open Office... and she's not getting any training when MS Office 2014 comes out and scraps everything she knows for touch-screen inspired insanity!

    Even universities, where you would expect old systems to soldier on for far too long, seem to do that kind of thing in less than 10 year intervals. And the employees who you would expect to get some "training" (office staff, geezer professors) don't--they complain, they suffer, and then they figure it out ;-)

    --
    Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
  7. Re:Total? by godrik · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the translation:

    "The city of Munich with her ââsavings Limux project about a third of their spending in the IT sector, particularly in license costs."

  8. The most important benefit is not the money saved by devent · · Score: 4, Informative

    As always the most important benefits of open source software is not highlighted. It is not always about the money saved. The more important issues are: Peruvian Congressman's Open Letter to Microsoft

    • Free access to public information by the citizen.
    • Permanence of public data.
    • Security of the State and citizens.

    It can't be the norm that government's IT infrastructure is depending on a foreign firm, with is subject to foreign laws. Especially with laws like the Patriot Act in place and laws like the SOPA and PIPA in discussions.

    --
    http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
  9. Re:Glad the saved 4 million euros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > But how much have they lost?

    - Lock-in to a single-source supplier
    - Worries about not being able to read their own archived documents saved in legacy formats (OpenOffice supports over 100 office file formats)
    - All trace of malware
    - The need for a license compliance officer
    - Any threat of being audited, or having a disgruntled employee dob them in to the BSA
    - The upgrade treadmill
    - Long delays during Windows updates

  10. Where... by bmo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Where is Florian Mueller?

    Oh Florian, do you remember this?

    "Linux violates 283 U.S. software patents," said Florian Mueller, software developer and adviser to the chief executive of Swedish open source firm MySQL,

    Such bold words back in 2004. Such brave effort in trying to get Munich to abandon the plan.

    It's 8 years later. Where is the "death by a thousand lawyers," Florian?

    --
    BMO

  11. And this is why opensource is superior! by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Funny

    It has been a desperate struggle for all in the computer business to come up with the least usable software ever! Apple had a good long run with their 1 mouse button because options just give users options. MS for a long time stayed with its tried and tested "crash more often then the stockmarket" while Unix just had to rely on making even the manual an arcane command line.

    But then stupid users tried to improve. Apple was forced to accept that with the PC, users could always just buy a multi-buttoned mouse! Can't have that Jobs said and have the word iOS, to get rid of not just right-click but double click in one go.

    Aha! MS said, we can beat that, behold, the RIBBON, a beautifull piece of AI that ensures whatever command you want, you won't be able to find it.

    Oops, said Linux, we started to lag. Quickly, upgrade the desktops so that whatever one you pick, you get the worsed ideas ever combined in a buddy alpha package!

    But unbeknown to all, queitly working away were the OpenOffice people, show casing just how utterly evil you can get with opensource code... TADA! The text editor with NO USER INTERFACE AT ALL! MWAHAHAHAHAA!

    Even Nintendo who gave us the handheld you got to move to control the game but hold still to be able to see can't top that.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.